Anonymous
Years ago

United wait on Devin Williams knee injury update

Another one bites the dust?
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/basketball/undersized-melbourne-united-wait-on-devin-williams-knee-injury-20161220-gtev8l.html

Topic #40523 | Report this topic


CT  
Years ago

United are really going to miss those 3ppg.

Reply #614294 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

They won't miss that.

But they might miss the 15.2 boards per 40 minutes. That must be close to best in the league?

Reply #614298 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Torey craig has 144 total rebounds in 17 games and D Williams has 64 in 16 games LV. not sure where your 15.2 comes from.
Williams is 27th in the top 30 however ;)

Reply #614299 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

Is that stat including DPs that come on and grab 1 rebound in their one or two minutes a game, LV? ;)

Reply #614302 | Report this post


Zodiac  
Years ago

I love it when people trot out meaningless per minute stats especially for someone who's considered not good enough to get on the court for a bad team.

Reply #614304 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

You guys are joking, right?

United got outrebounded 40 to 22 in the last game and outscored 52-36 in the paint, you don't think it would've made a difference having Devin Williams in there compared to guys who are a couple of inches shorter and with a much smaller wingspan?

He averages 4 rebounds a game FYI, easily United's best rebounder on a per minute basis and their second best rebounder overall out of active players. (Andersen averages 4.6 but he's out)

With Andersen injured, Williams is literally a third of Melbourne's remaining frontcourt. That makes him valuable. If you don't understand that, then you have no business commenting on a basketball forum.

SMH.

Reply #614308 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"But they might miss the 15.2 boards per 40 minutes. That must be close to best in the league?"

Where does that 15.2 stat come from?

Reply #614309 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

(Barlow has been playing some 4 and has been handy. So you could argue that he's a frontcourt player too. But traditionally Barlow is a 3 and he's new to the 4 spot, and it's an open question whether his rebounding is at a level that he can remain there. Williams is one of only 4 bigs on Melbourne's roster- Big meaning someone who traditionally plays the 4 or the 5)

Anon- Williams averages 4.0 rebounds in 10.5 minutes a game. That equals 15.2 per 40. That would make him the most productive rebounder in the NBL, or very close to it.

Reply #614310 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So lets just extrapolate that and make a non sensical statement LV.

If you applied inane logic to Torrey Craig wouldn't that still make him the best in the league?

Reply #614311 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Years ago

It's not too hard to pad your stats when you're rebounding your own misses and playing junk minutes against the other team's second-tier. I don't think they'll miss Devin Williams much at all. Could probably get better output by pulling Cam Tragardh out of the commentary box and giving him a go.

Reply #614312 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Why is it "inane logic"?

Are you suggesting that he might not retain that rate if he played more minutes?

Consider the games where he has played at least 15 minutes:

7/10 NZ - 16 minutes, 3 rebounds
27/10 Cairns- 15 minutes, 5 rebounds
6/11 Illawarra - 15 minutes, 7 rebounds
11/12 Sydney - 17 minutes, 10 rebounds

In those games, he averaged 15.9 rebounds per 40 minutes (25 rebounds in 63 minutes). That's *higher* than his season average of 15.2.

For some comparison, look at some other big name big guys:

Nate Jawai- 8.5 rebounds per 40 mins.
Alecs Maric- 10.3 rebounds per 40 mins.
Cam Bairstow- 12.4 rebounds per 40 mins.
AJ Ogilvy- 11.3 rebounds per 40 mins.

Those guys play 17,19, 21 and 24 minutes per game, which is not so much greater than Williams' 10.5 minutes that it makes a comparison impossible.
In any case, Williams' rebounding rate is *significantly* higher than any of those guys.

Point is 1. Williams is a good rebounder. And 2. He's very valuable to Melbourne United with Dave Andersen out.

So, much maligned as he is, he does contribute something valuable.

Reply #614313 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Holyfield- 14.6 rebs per 40.
Hodgson - 11.6 per 40.
Loe- 8.8 per 40.

Just to show that it isnt necessarily easy rebounding against "second units".

Further to that, Williams averages 11.8 *defensive rebounds* per 40 and 3.4 offensive. So it's laughable to say he is "rebounding his own misses"

Reply #614315 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I guess the reason he plays 2/3 less minutes and has less then 1/2 the rebounds that Craig has makes him a great player.?
The stats work for you simply because they look so good when he plays so few minutes. He simply isn't that good.

Please put him on for the same minutes as CT and see how many shots he misses, fouls he commits and turnovers. Assuming he can sustain that rebound stat which I am 100% sure he can't. he is a bust.

Reply #614316 | Report this post


ME (he/kangaroo)  
Years ago

^ agreed. I expected big things from Devin Williams based on the Blitz and his massive frame. But he has been useless.

Reply #614318 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Guys, it helps to read before you post.

I never said he was good player.

I said he's important to United with Dave Andersen already out. I also said he was a good rebounder. The numbers prove that beyond any doubt. When he does play big minutes, he grabs a heap of rebounds - eg the Cairns, Illawarra and Sydney games I referenced above. On a small team with plenty of shooters but not many guys who are physical or great rebounders, like Melbourne United this season, and with one of the main bigs already injured, that makes him a valuable piece of the puzzle.

This is basic stuff. Again, if you don't understand this then you really shouldn't be posting on a basketball forum cos you clearly know nothing about basketball.

Reply #614319 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

You need some size on a basketball court.

if Williams can't suit up, Melbourne will be forced to play stretches of the game with Smith Milner, Wesley, Barlow or Blanchfield holding down the 4 and 5 positions.

That could work offensively, but defensively, those guys will be trying to defend Jervis, Young and Petrie around the hoop.

It could work for a few minutes here and there, but it's not a lineup that you want to be *forced* to use without any other alternative while Majok sits. You want to have options. With Williams out, Melbourne has no option *but* to play extremely small ball for stretches of the game. Not ideal...

Reply #614321 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah those big minutes of 15 and 17 are impressive. So not even 1/2 a game of basketball and still you rave about him.
So of the remaining 121 minutes he played he pulled down a massive 42 rebounds. No I am excited!
So that is 16 rebounds for 40 minutes! Woot
I apologise.

Reply #614322 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Having a hack big guy sitting on your bench, ready to play is much better than having no big guy at all.

You want to have the option of actually having a big man on the court, even if he's not your best player.

Blanchfield is a much better player than Williams. But I'd rather he got injured right now. If Blanchfield went down, we'd still have Moore, Barlow, Odigie to play the 3.

Losing Williams gives us literally no one with any professional experience at the 5 spot other than Majok.

It's all about roster balance, flexibility and covering your various bases. If Andersen and Williams are out together, that's a tough scenario for United.

Reply #614324 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

United has a bevy of guys who play on the perimeter and can shoot the 3.

But we don't have many physical players who rebound the ball well and prefer to play around the hoop on offense.

Reply #614325 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

Out 4-6 weeks.

Reply #614326 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Is this the worst injury season in Melbourne United/Melbourne Tigers history?

There was 2009/10 when Anstey went down in the pre season with his hip injury and was never the same again, and Sam Mackinnon had various issues. Both were in their twilight and retired after that season.

CG, Blanchfield, Barlow, Andersen and now Williams all having extended sits on the sidelines. And we're only half way through the season!

United needs to find a replacement, asap.

Reply #614327 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

On Anstey, he wasnt so much "in his twilight" as that was the injury that ended his career. He was still amongst the NBL's elite in 08/09. So you could say 09/10 was the worst ever season, with the marquee Aussie having an injury that rendered him nothing like he was previously.

But man, we just cant take a trick this season. It's ridiculous

Reply #614328 | Report this post


Benno  
Years ago

4-6 weeks is too long to wait we need a new big

Reply #614339 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"This is basic stuff. Again, if you don't understand this then you really shouldn't be posting on a basketball forum cos you clearly know nothing about basketball."
Clearly you after all your years of being a loyal Tigers supporter have lost the plot if you think you can extrapolate Williams' numbers across a 40 min game based on one reasonable game and a few mediocre games. Take the blinkers off mate.

Reply #614371 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

It's not about extrapolating anything.

It's the role that he plays within the specific group that he's in.

Again, I'd rather Blanchfield be injured right now than Williams. Barlow is a similar type of player to Blanchfield- albeit not as good at this stage of his career. Odigie is handy. Moore can play the 3, in fact Moore scored 20 and played a significant role in the comeback vs Perth while playing next to Casper and CG.

But Williams is the only guy with any size coming off the bench. Now that him and Andersen is gone, there's a lack of options at DDs disposal until they get a replacement. The second unit can only play run and gun small ball. There is no other choice.

Reply #614380 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hakim Warrick is a possibility.
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/melbourne-united-could-look-to-hakim-warrick-as-injury-replacement-20161221-gtg252.html

Reply #614417 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Mixed feelings about that one.

He's a talent, and it brings us another step closer to bringing back last year's relatively successful balance (Ware being a similar type to Holt as the other change in that direction...).

But it leaves us with similar weaknesses to last year. Lack of muscle, physicality and rebounding were exposed vs NZ.

Warrick's best skill was finishing around the hoop. Tai Wesley is a talented scorer who brings a strong low post game. Don't think they'd work well together since they'd both be trying to post up low all the time!

I'd prefer someone in the Gladness/Ibekwe/Charles Jackson mould to a Hakim Warrick. They'd give us more like what Majok gives us while Majok is off the court.

But, it does depend on budget and things like that. Plus Warrick knows the group. They might even look specifically at the next 7 or 8 games if they think he'll only play while Williams is out? (Or does this definitely mean the end of Williams?). Suitable opponents?

Lots of variables to consider.

Reply #614418 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago


Extrapolation [(ik-strap-uh- lay -shuhn)]

A mathematical procedure designed to enable one to estimate unknown values of a parameter from known values. A common method of extrapolation is to look at data on a curve, then extend the curve into regions for which there is no data. Extrapolation is often used to predict the future.

Reply #614419 | Report this post


ROFLcopter  
Years ago

Hakim Warrick should've been re-signed for this season!!

Sign him immediately. Great talent and a crowd favourite.

Reply #614425 | Report this post


Freethrows  
Years ago

@LV, please ignore the troll. The points you make about Williams' value to MU are well grounded, and understood by people who can think.

MU have had a really shitty season with injury, and that has happened to other teams in the past. I still don't think it's the main reason they are not performing as well as expected this year. It still seems to come down to chemistry and playing well together. They just don't seem like they want to knuckle down and do the hard stuff that successful teams do.

Reply #614429 | Report this post


LV  
Years ago

Yeah they were mediocre in the first two games, and that was with a full team except Barlow so injuries can't be the only excuse. There's still issues with lack of offensive variety and consistent effort.

But on the upside, they're a totally different outfit with Ware. And D has been fairly solid for most of the season. Like most teams, there's still a lot of hope at the moment.

Reply #614437 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Years ago

Sounds like a dose of salary cap karma to me!

Reply #614456 | Report this post




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