From this distance I'd have to say yes.

I grew up as an SE Melbourne fan and to this day couldn't bring myself to support the Tigers. I'd attend the odd game in the years between but the past couple of seasons I've been a season ticket holder of United.

Crowd size and attendance is usually great, and it seems the average person at work or out and about seems to know a bit about the league and United and can have a chat these days.

Also feels good to take my nephew out to games and give him the enjoyment I got going to watch the old Melbourne rivalries.

Short answer is yes.

I grew up as an SE Melbourne fan and to this day couldn't bring myself to support the Tigers. I'd attend the odd game in the years between but the past couple of seasons I've been a season ticket holder of United.

Crowd size and attendance is usually great, and it seems the average person at work or out and about seems to know a bit about the league and United and can have a chat these days.

Also feels good to take my nephew out to games and give him the enjoyment I got going to watch the old Melbourne rivalries.

Short answer is yes.

It has been.

But it will always remain an open question the extent to which the brand change has spurred things along. Could similar interest and support have occurred had the Tigers name been kept? Maybe. Certainly crowds have been steadily improving for about 4 or 5 seasons or so now, ever since LK started pumping money into things in 2012, long before the 2014 change. The upwards trend was already established before the change to United.

As for me, I don't have the passion for United. It's a corporate team. There is no history, there is no real love from me. But I'll support them because they represent this great city and they're a pro basketball team.

Clearly, yes. They can sell out the boxing day game; they're doing okay.

Victoria has a proud history of supporting Multiple NBL teams, so its a pity for the league that LK has been allowed to muscle in and effectively stifle any further growth.

I grew up as an SE Melbourne fan and to this day couldn't bring myself to support the Tigers. I'd attend the odd game in the years between but the past couple of seasons I've been a season ticket holder of United.

I guess that's proof that one person's "proud history of supporting multiple NBL teams" is another person's "number of defunct franchises from the one city is approaching double digits" which to me is taking a lot of liberties with the definition of "supporting".

IMO it's definitely very unfortunate for the loyal Tigers fans, but the NBL fanbase in Melbourne had become so divided and splintered over such a long time that starting fresh with a new identity was 100% the only practical way forward at this point.
LK hasn't stifled further growth, he has made it a possibility. The first thing that needed to happen was to get the league off life support by ending the cycle of bandaids upon bandaids. I think there are signs of life now and therefore the potential for stability. Expansion is already on the cards. Personally I think it would be hasty to include Melbourne in that expansion for now, but it might not need to be too far away.

I think the re-brand has worked, however it has had many things supporting it.

The success of the whole competition and the cash injection from key business partners, the grab for supporters in a partially vacant Victorian basketball market, the lack of another option to follow here have all helped.

To continue their success they now need a rival, otherwise we will get sick of them just like we did with Victory. The Storm is a different situation, they would suffer having a rival here, but basketball and soccer are the opposite and benefit greatly in a rival game scenario...

its a pity for the league that LK has been allowed to muscle in and effectively stifle any further growth.

[quote][quote]I grew up as an SE Melbourne fan and to this day couldn't bring myself to support the Tigers. I'd attend the odd game in the years between but the past couple of seasons I've been a season ticket holder of United.[/quote]

Maybe its just me, but I personally find that incomprehensible.[/quote]

I was never a fan of the Tigers. I still liked basketball and would attend occasional games as a non-team specific fan regardless of who was playing.

Melbourne United encompasses all previous Vic teams and no longer play in a tin-shed after the domestic under-12 netball games have finished for the night. This has given the league a legitimate and professional Vic team and I'm once again excited about our city's basketball culture and its future.

Quite straight forward really.

The Tigers were playing plenty of games out of Hisense and were getting 6,000-7,000 to games before the rebrand. They moved back to Hisense in 2012-13 from memory.

So talk of "tin sheds" and non professional outfits is incorrect. LK and Slepoy purchased the Tigers early in 2012.

The point is that it is LK and Slepoy's influence that had turned things around, and this was starting to happen *well before the change*. It remains a fair question the extent to which the brand change has helped things.

Well, get ready for more amateur hour because their next 2 home games are back in a small netball centre.
(They really should do what Perth does and just not host any games while the decent venues are unavailable)

It's been a mix of venues for many years.

Pretty sure the Tigers last ever regular season home game drew 7,500.

^^^
Season membership doesn't cover SNHC games. They give member's first opportunity to purchase tickets on a first in best dressed basis before releasing to the public, but quite overpriced for that venue IMO.

To me, calling a basketball team 'United' just feels all wrong. We're not an English football league! It's such a tragedy that Melbourne has lost all of its teams and the history that went with them. I wish we could go back to the days of the Tigers, Giants, Spectres and Saints. That will never happen, but the sooner United gets a city rival the better. Even moreso if we could get some interesting names rather than the likely United and City. Tigers and Magic would do the trick!

Yeah ok, fair point anon. I'm arguing from the heart, not the head :D

I get that they want to call the team United to try to bring Tigers, Magic and other fans together, but that is probably exactly why I don't like it - I want the old rivalries back.

But you don't want to listen to me - I'm a Sixers fan. Divide and rule and all that ;D

Is the Melbourne United rebrand a success?

For me, no. And it never will be.

By the measure that I no longer have a team to follow.

If you're someone whose love for the Tigers meant more to you than your love for NBL basketball, watching pro basketball live and the city of Melbourne... Then I can understand why you no longer have a team to follow.

But for me, I've always been a basketball person first. And while my love for the Tigers ran deep, and whilst the change has been a bitter pill to swallow because my affinity for United itself is low....I'm still a basketball person and a Melbourne person.

@LV, I am kind of with you on a fair bit of that too.

It hurt us down on the Surf Coast when the Supercats folded, regardless of how great it is to still have them in SEABL, the NBL would be awesome if we could afford it again.

I was a Dragons fan and it again hurt when they folded, I was never a fan of the Tigers.

I like to watch the odd United game, I don't really consider myself a fan, but I will be happy if they succeed for the game (NBL).

There in lies the real issue here though, there isn't another NBL choice!

Yet...

Yeah clearly I just hate basketball. 20 odd nba games in 15 different cities, olympic gold and bronze matches as well as a few others, euroleague, aba, vba games back in the day. But sure, I was a one eyed fan because I will never support the team owned by the man that killed my club. Whatever.

I can respect Tigers fans for feeling like they have lost their club and that following United just isnt the same.

However the league has changed so much over the years, its almost been a complete rebrand without it being an official rebrand. So many of the teams from the 90s are no longer around and new clubs have entered and thrived (Taipans, Breakers). Remaining teams have revitilised in one way or another (Wildcats, Kings, Bullets, Hawks) that they are almost unrecognisable from the 90s it just feels like a totally different league now to what it was 20 years ago.

So maybe Tigers fans who wont support United should consider doing so, if they still love basketball and appreciate a strong organisation that appears to be ticking all the boxes in a league that is moving in the right direction for once.

Yeah it's a hard one. I don't begrudge Cram at all, I feel sorry for him. You can't force yourself to support a new club.

I understand it completely, I'm as Tigers as they come. Was a club volunteer in the time when the club had paid staff that you could count on one hand. Member since 2001, even kept my membership when my media pass got me into any NBL game for free. United are not the Tigers, and that saddens me a bit too. If they win it this year (which they may well) it won't mean anything like say 06 or 08 did

But as much as you might dislike Kestlemen, you have to respect what he's done for the NBL, it's in a much, much better place than it was 5 years ago. In fact any time since mid 90's

What I meant in my first paragraph was that sports is passion. It's love. The heart has its reasons that reason cannot know (Blaise Pascal I think?) Sports support comes from the heart.

I'm just more into United from the "watching basketball" point of view rather than being the passionate supporter I once was.

No. I do not respect Kestleman one bit. With many Melbourne basketball franchises going tits up he didn't give Tigers fans even a chance to save the one club that had survived all of those problems. The oldest club in the league. The club that Australia's most famous basketball family had put their blood abd tears into and would have moved mountains if given a chance rather than having the rug pulled out.

He's a typical new money tosser who thinks because he's made money in one area it will naturally flow into another. He's piling loads of money into the club and the league. He will get sick of losing money and cut his losses at some point. My hope is United folds and the league somehow survives.

Bitter? Yes, but with reason.

Thats fair enough. I suppose over time once United have built up a bit of their own history, maybe there will be some affection towards them on top of the current support they get.

As a Perth resident who appreciated the Wildcats Tigers rivalry as must see games, i can only judge from what ive seen in the media and from a brief visit to Melbourne last year where I actuallu saw people walking around in United tshirts on non game days. I can honestly say that i think the rebrand has been a success.

@Cram, you have tabled a reason, however it doesn't sound like a plausible one mate.

I will be the first to admit I wasn't happy with the whole thing (how United came to be and how The Tigers were treated), but moving forward we do also have an obligation to be realistic about the game and how it can grow here in Victoria.

I think it is generally agreed upon that a second team here is essential, not only to create that rivalry that will benefit both United and any new franchise, but the whole NBL.

Things change, yes they might come back a peg or two after 'K's dollars run out, but I can't see the logic in wanting the only Victorian NBL franchise to fall over, that benefits no one...

It benefits me. I will not support anything that Kestleman has to do with. Ever.

Fortunately, the overwhelming history of the nbl shows that eventually United will fall and some other team will replace them. At that point I will consider supporting a new team. Not before.

Hopefully that coincides with Kestleman losing all of his business interests and becoming homeless. I can only hope.

Sigh...

If the Wildcats decided to change their name next season I would be absolutely livid. And im sure most fans would be too. It would be a complete head scratcher to ditch the most succesful brand with their current profile just to do something new. Say goodbye to 9000+ members for a start.

If this was 2004 however, and the club was going to fold unless a new owner came in, then i would be ok with a new name if thats whats the incoming owner wanted to do, in order to save the club. As long as he had a vision and logic that that would be the right thing to do.

I dont know if the Tigers were on the path to folding any time soon but its clear that they needed to do something drastic in order to tap into Melbournes large basketball community. A community that is much bigger than the Tigers support base.

Anon^, I stand corrected, however I believe that has been rebutted by many involved in the Tigers and other old franchises.

While that may have been the idea promoted by United, in reality it can't be the case for many reasons, it was more about them cornering the Victorian market before any new rivals come in.

Similar to what Victory tried to do in the A-League, but not identical.

They can say they are Victoria's team right now, but in no way can United pretend to be a consortium of all the old franchises, that is folly!

Haha yep that was me. Wow Cram's Corner. That was 17 or 18 years ago. Damn I'm old.

And for the tired argument "the tigers are still part of united"...no.

The whole reason for the change was to bring in fans of the other clubs who would never support the Tigers. You cant say to them "we're a new club" and then to Tigers fans "but really we're also still the Tigers". They made their choice.

Its also evident from the reactiobn of the Gaze family, working to get the team at aba level into the seabl with an aim towards one day playing in the top flight again. Is this the reaction of people who's club still exists in the nbl?

The Tigers are not United.

United don't really represent the Tigers.

But, they represent Melbourne. They represent Victoria in the NBL. They are the best basketball team that your can go watch live in this fine city.

Whether you like it or not, is a simple fact that the buzz, energy and crowd support around them right now is greater than anything seen in this city for many years. Even at the peak of the Tigers vs Dragons and Tigers vs Titans rivalries, a sell out at Hisense was less likely than likely. Yet, multiple games this season have sold out and almost all of the others have seen crowds of 7,000+.

They also have Chris Goulding, who coincidentally was the Tigers last superstar player, standing on the shoulders of Giants like Gaze, Bradtke, Copeland, and Anstey.

So, I'm glad the NBL is on the up again. Basketball is on the up. The Tigers are no longer. That sucks. But basketball is on the up, so I'll take a part in it.

I'm not so desperate that I'll forgive such an awful act just to watch nbl basketball. I can watch NBA league pass to watch good basketball, and seabl games to see live stuff.

As I said, I'll simply wait until United fail and/or a new Melbourne team comes in. History suggests either wont be long.

Beantown you gave in too easily - Celtic is one Scottish football club, "United" is used almost purely in football leagues around the world - Manchester United, Adelaide United, D.C United etc.

I agree with you, I understand the narrative behind it but it just feels too much like soccer.

The Melbourne thing is tricky. As there's only one team at the moment from Melbourne, it is stupid to have "Tigers" because that's like just having "Port Adelaide" in the AFL without "Adelaide". The vast majority of the other SANFL clubs like Sturt, Norwood would have rejected the idea of supporting Port. I don't know much about Victoria and their rivalries but from what I gather, this is a similar situation - those who aren't part of the Tigers, hate the Tigers.

If you're against a broad Melbourne side out of Tigers elitism demanding it be that specific club, then that's kind of a sad reason to separate yourself from the NBL.

I understand changing name, negating history sucks - but given the circumstances of one Melbourne club, the greater picture is obvious.

Now, hopefully there will be a second Melbourne club. In which case, it makes the name Melbourne United a bit silly. The ideal scenario would be for a second Melbourne club to come in and be called the Tigers while Melb Utd (who probably wouldn't want to change their brand capital with another change) could focus their marketing on the eastern side of Melbourne and encompass mostly the Magic/Dragons/Titans types.

The problem is they've done it backwards.

They took the one brand in Melbourne that did survive and had the biggest name in Australian basketball attached to it and abandoned it to appeal to the fans of all the teams that had failed.

The far better way to go about it would ve to come in with United AS the second side to unite all of those fans against the Tigers. If you have a club that incites passion, even if that passion is hate you USE that passion, you dont just throw it away.

LK will not allow the Tigers brand to enter the nbl (he owns the rights) abd therefore whatever side that comes in whenever it does is simply 2 new sides with zero history both trying to claim history and fans that were never theirs.