Last year

Kings season on knife thread after Perth loss

Summary(where to now remaining parts of season):
"Big loss" at home. Kings can't afford to lose home games and they just did. They will have to pinch a win on the road and hope Perth loses a home game, And as we know, Perth are SO TOUGH to beat at home. Marto is back for them and now Cotton a good import. Gonna be tough final part
of Reg-Season. 4 tough away games left in reg season(Perth/Adelaide/Brisbane/NZ), places where we don't have good records historically, and we will have to pinch 1 away win out of that lot and none are easy. And now we must win all our home games left in reg-season(that's non-negotiable now). Run home reads like this 2 home games/4 away games(all in tough places), tough final part of season lies ahead to make play-offs.
Next 3-games the Kings are on the road/then 2 home games/then 1 last away game. Kings are on a knife thread there season.

Topic #40620 | Report this topic

Last year

As I said 8 weeks ago, the Kings need an import PG, who can drive, create and shoot from anywhere on court. So who do they get??? Blake and then Jackson. Other teams get Randle, Trice, Ware and Cotton. My prediction 8 weeks ago: it's Bye bye season, due to a totally unbalanced team, a weak bench, running an outdated shuffle offence, and poor shooting.

Reply #617020 | Report this post

Last year

We are fucked with a capital F

Reply #617026 | Report this post

Manu Fieldel  
Last year

Knife thread

Reply #617031 | Report this post

Last year

Mixing your metaphors, knife edge or on a thread?

I think every team after a loss is on edge and after a win is a lot more confident. It's the nature of the beast this season - literally anyone can win.

Reply #617033 | Report this post

Last year

I'm not sure if a Casper Ware type import PG would be the antidote to the Kings' woes. Sure, it may a better solution to the current options they have when offensive plays break down and they are forced to create something out of nothing.

Can you imagine though, Ware with the Tigers shuffle or whatever it is Drewey running? Bring up the ball, pass to Lisch, pass to Newley, to Whittington, watch the play broken up then pass it back to Ware to shoot the 3? Oh no 3 option, then zip into the lane for a circus euro-step or pull up J? Thank God for the awesome gun import if he consistently bails you out. If that's going to be case, why bother with all that passing?

While Bryce Cotton was impressive tonight, I thought McDowell-White was almost equally impressive and lived up to the hype. The young man only played 10mins but managed to score 8 very efficient points, showing uncanny poise in his first ever professional game. Given free reins, I have a feeling he could have as much impact as an import PG but that is unlikely to happen with Drewey.

The Kings have a very talented roster, more than enough to win a championship. Sadly, Gaze's inexperience in selecting and installing the right offensive strategy is very painful to watch. All that wasted talent...

Reply #617034 | Report this post

Last year

Bring in Garret Jackson who does F all. Sack him bring in a good PG end of story!!

Reply #617036 | Report this post

Last year


Steve, Gaze has Dan Vickerman(who Gaze knows very well) as his assistant coach. Vickerman, was head coach at the Breakers took em to the grand final last year(runner-up). So Dan Vickerman, would be having a big say on tactics to, he has to shoulder a lot of the blame to. So they have a Head coach on the bench in reality. Gaze is head coach but I imagine he's more a figurehead.

Reply #617040 | Report this post

Last year

Matt, that's DEAN Vickerman. Idiots like KET think they have no coaching ability either. No one I know of has said Gaze is the greatest coach in the NBL. Vickerman was a great NBL coach and could equally hold down a HC position in his own right now.
Gaze coaches a weak SEABL side. Has coached around in Melb for a long time now. Unquestionably he's the high profile guy in Sydney. Backed by a side group behind him.
He talked the hype the other day in the press and I for one think he's now believing his own hype.

Reply #617041 | Report this post

Last year

Kings in trouble but still a chance, although very slim, had to use his bench from day one instead of running his starters into the hardwood. Gaze has dean vickerman but he's his own man, sometimes you have to listen to the underlings to get the balance right, it's all a learning experience, the good news is the product is fantastic and Sydney crowds are getting bigger which is partly due to gazes personality and drawing power.

Reply #617051 | Report this post

Last year

Not enough games left for that Benno, the Kings only have 6 games left to play not enough time left for another import to qualify for the playoffs.

Reply #617053 | Report this post

Last year

Yeah I'm aware of who Deano is Matt. To say that he would also have to wear the blame is something I'm not sure of. Since the coaching staff are all ex-Tigers, even Kendall, perhaps Deano is guilty to some degree of agreeing to install the shuffle? Maybe they thought it'd be a fun experiment to see if they can modify it to work with the new environment?

I don't recall the Breakers under Vickerman running a shuffle-centric offense, but I did see some similarity in the fast break offense the current Kings run when they made a defensive stop and rebound to the old Breakers. Newley or Whittington putting the ball down, charging downcourt after defensive rebound is reminiscent of Wesley or Vukona.

Reply #617059 | Report this post

Last year

Hey Benno it's to late to bring import PG as they have to play 8 games and that rule would be for locals as well i would imagine.I agree what where the Kings thinking when they brought in Jackson who is just a rebounder.This decision will cost them a playoff spot.

Reply #617060 | Report this post

Last year

The hype behind JVG and the Kings signing Gaze as their head coach has know truly gone. They started the season well on top of the ladder catching other team off guard and when they were far from
reaching their potential.

Now with a 3rd left in the season, teams have figure out the 30year old shuffle of which the current kings team looked as if its waste of time and doesn't suit their talents.

Gaze inexperience is being exposed despite having a championship winning assistant coach in vickermen who only endorse the shuffle because of his close relationship to the gaze family hierarchy(Lindsey). Its clear if the shuffle was a successful offense vickerman would had it as part of his offense when coaching the Breakers.

IMO the shuffle doesn't work for your key players in newley, lisch, cadee, powell, Whittington who's talent are not being used properly and therefore the kings are force to play a lot of 1on1 no system basketball with the occasional fastbreak baskets. They don't really have a go to offense and because of that, the players are not in sinc most of the game trying their best to play instinct basketball hoping to outscore the opposition which in the long run, isn't going to win a championship.

The most exposed part of gaze coaching is his lack of emphasis on D!! He as a player never played defense and its translating into his coaching and that gives teams confidence they can score anytime against the kings. At this stage of the season defense is vital to back up teams offense. The kings currently have 1 player can that truly be classified as a defender which is lisch.

Unfortunately, gaze's game plan isn't going to change and for that reason..IMO they will NOT make the finals.

When that happens there will be a big announcement.

Watch This Space!!

Reply #617061 | Report this post

Last year

Funny anonymous, you'd think Gaze would have learned from Sydney 2000 and Barry Barnes shocking shuffle tactics, cos us a medal probably.
Yes I will WATCH THIS SPACE, I have a hunch if Kings miss play offs Gaze will quit, he's not the sort of guy coz of his profile to do the hard yards as an assistant at an NBL club. He likes the media and the glory to much, he's not used to being the 2IC or the butler, he likes to be the Boss the Sir. He's more Bruce Wayne than his loyal Butler Alfred or his side kick Robin.

Reply #617065 | Report this post

Last year

Anon #617061, its funny what you said about Gaze not playing D when he was a player, funny because its mostly true. While Gaze may have been an amazing scorer, quite often his direct opponent would also score a bag himself.

I remember quite a few games from the late 80's when Melbourne played Adelaide and Gaze would be up against Darryl Pearce. Sure in most of those games he would score 40 or even 50 points, but at the same time Pearce would drop 35-45 points himself. And the 36ers usually won those games anyway.

Andrew Gaze was never a great defensive player and that seems to be how he coaches, offense first.

@Matt, don't get me started on Barry Barnes at the Sydney Olympics. 100% agree that it cost us at least the Bronze, even taking into account losing Longley to injury.

Reply #617070 | Report this post

Last year

The danger in losing games at home is not just the damage to their season, but the disappointment of fans. For their big-budget gamble to pay off, they need to get bums on seats. It was mentioned that this was their 2nd highest attendance of the season? Which is great, but will it continue to grow?

Back in the day, Drewie would often play 48 minutes for the Tiges, so maybe he thinks the demands he has placed on Lisch are reasonable? Difference was Drewie was never required to play defence.

WMDW looked good for an 18 year debutant, but I'm not sure he's the answer.

As for blaming Vickerman, when a team gets in a hole, it is the job of the coach to steady the ship, and plot a course. Time and time again, we have seen that Gaze cannot do that. Tonight when the game was on the line, his great idea was to double-team the ball carrier. Was he reading last month's scouting report???
(He was only saved from looking like a complete and utter spastic by the ridiculous offensive-foul called on Prather.)
Why wasn't he drawing up plays for Lisch and especially Newley???

Too many people are blinded by Gaze's legacy.

Reply #617073 | Report this post

Last year

Yeah but

Kings then daylight?

Reply #617076 | Report this post

Last year

Where's LV?

Reply #617078 | Report this post

Air Delay  
Last year

I feel for Gazey... the Kings have done everything right in terms of promo & establishing the team, but sadly, they've struggled to get the Ws. All teams have gone through slumps this season & the Kings are sure in one now, but remember the Kings had played the most games in the league & like Illawarra, UTD, 36ers & Perth, have the talent to go on a big run.

If the players stick solid, okay their ass off (& yeah probably play much less shuffle O) they'll go on winning run - how can't they with the talent they have?!?!?

Lisch is the reigning MVP & if the offence is set up to suit his style, the Kings will bounce back.

KINGS DON'T NEED AN IMPORT PG - THEY HAVE LISCH! What they do need is some life and energy off the bench to give the big guns just that little more rest.

Reply #617082 | Report this post

Last year

The Kings are getting enough "high %" looks to win games. Their shooting % is poor. Lisch was ~4 from 16.

Your gun guards shooting ~30% will not win games.Shooting stats, Kings 39% , perth 52%, Free throws, Kings 61% Perth 76%.

Regardless of the system being run, open looks must translate to a higher % of pts than the Kings are currently making.

Reply #617083 | Report this post

Last year

Agree. The main difference between the Kings > Daylight team earlier in the season and the Kings on a knife edge team we see now is the form of Lisch.

He was sensational and had taken his MVP game to an even higher level early but has really struggled recently.

Whether that is due to burnout, better scouting or just one of those temporary for slumps is hard to tell.

Reply #617084 | Report this post

Last year

Matt, that's DEAN Vickerman. Idiots like KET think they have no coaching ability either.

What the f...?

I've never made a comment about Vickerman let alone in reference to his coaching ability.

When are school holidays over? Some posters on here are a farce.

Reply #617085 | Report this post

Last year

You still have Lisch and Newley. Two awesome players. But one of the issues right now is Lisch is struggling. I'm not sure of the reason. He seems to be forced to take a lot of tough shots. Is the system putting him in enough positions to be efficient?

Reply #617086 | Report this post

Last year

Gaze talks about the group and that he has confidence in them but really only gives 6 or 7 players any real time, the playing of Jackson ahead of Garlepp yesterday doesn't show faith in even tommy now, Jackson might be an import but is from the seabl and is undersized for the 4. All players are trying to play for Gazey but at times look hesitant as like you don't want to let down a mate, it's probably to late now but Prewster, Hill and Moller should've seen more court time to get more confident and Gazey actually gain faith.

Reply #617094 | Report this post

Last year

Not sure about fatigue last night, Lisch and Cadee actually played a lot less than they usually do, Lisch 32 and Cadee 29 mins. Gaze went 9 deep last night and I thought had a pretty good rotation in first half but regressed to his old ways in the second half.

Folks, some of you seem to forget that the whinging about Kings buying championship earlier this season is because they have more players compared to most teams that can pick up the slack if Lisch and Newley are shut down. Whittington, Powell, Cadee and even Garlepp have the offensive capabilities to score 20+ in 30mins. Theoretically, the shuffle was supposed to give each of those guys a touch of the ball to see if they can exploit their offensive prowess.

In reality, teams figured out how to defend and distort the shuffle to force them to shoot around the perimeter. Slow the ball pushed downcourt then focus hard on D for 10sec and collapse to the middle. Those perimeter shots were open looks but inherently a lower effective FG% if your shooter is not knocking it down at 40% clip. Last night the Kings had 28 3pt attempts vs Perth's 14. Whittington was 1-6, Newley 0-6, Lisch 2-8.

You might say that if they'd shot just a bit better they would've won the game and that's true, but you'd have to give credit to Perth for only giving up those shots. If you can't totally shut them down then you settle for forcing them to take lower % shots. Its the Kings' fault for not running more plays that change those 14 extra 3pt shots to inside attempts that may likely generate more shooting fouls. Why isn't more inside plays being run for Powell, Whittington, Newley or even Maric? You need to ask Gaze that question.

Reply #617095 | Report this post

Air Delay  
Last year

@SteveK2 you're pretty on the ball their.. & with all your posts. Love your work.

Maybe with a little more focus on inside first, those 3 ball looks will come at a higher clip? I've got to say though, I think anytime the Kings O plays off on ball screens for Lisch, Newley or Cadee, they're very hard to guard. Over the last few games I thought I'd started to see more of this incorporated into the O, but come the back end of the game it seems like the team falls back in to running 'old faithful shuffle' & the big guns seem to tired to knock down their good looks.

Reply #617098 | Report this post

Last year

They need a lot more than "a little more focus inside"... They need any sort of focus inside. When Powell posts up on the low block he is one of the best post scorers in the league. Newley is one of the best post-up guards in the league. Whittington is surprisingly good in the post. How often do we take advantage of any of these abilities? Two or three times a game? We've got some great shooters, but IMO the three point shot should be something you fall back on when you can't find anything easy inside, rather than the entire focus of your half-court sets...

Reply #617103 | Report this post

Last year

As a Kings fan watching every game so far in the season I realised one thing. Gaze has got to go, he's a terrible coach.

- He rarely calls timeouts at the right time, especially when teams are going on a run
- He refuses to ditch the shuffle, even for a couple minutes, and it's killing the Kings because it's so easy to defend.
-His subs are absolutely awful. He is the worst coach in the league when it comes to making the right substitutions and making enough substitutions.

Reply #617117 | Report this post

Green 53  
Last year

No one mentioning how poor Maric has been considering what he is probably getting paid and expectations he came into the league with?

Reply #617119 | Report this post

Air Delay  
Last year

You're spot on @AngusH. Powell on the low block is near unstoppable. This next week of prep is going to be telling for Gaze & the Kings season & future.

Reply #617121 | Report this post

Last year


Haha! Randle, Trice, Ware, and Cotton makes Cadee, and to a lesser extent Lisch, look pedestrian.

Besides Cadee and Lisch need to be rested. If you are fatigued in the 4th quarter, your shots will not drop.

I also agree Maric has gone under the radar too long. He needs to go.

Reply #617123 | Report this post

Last year

Trice is not in the same category as the other three

Reply #617133 | Report this post

Last year

to me it is totally poor shooting % that has the Kings in trouble. No of their shooters are "hot".

In regard to the D, Perth shot 80pts, a total that would lose more games than it would win.

Fix the individual shooting problems and you get the kings back on track!!!

Reply #617134 | Report this post

Last year

"No one mentioning how poor Maric has been considering what he is probably getting paid and expectations he came into the league with?"

I don't think anyone who knew of Maric's ability had overly high expectations.

Re Lisch, he is not really a PG, more a SG who can cover the ball-handling. His +- for the Boomers when paired with Delly was good, but it was poor when he was with Mills, and his +- is horrible for Sydney when Cadee is on the bench. Kev just isn't great at running a team.

Sydney erred badly with their third guard spot, had to overplay Cadee, Lisch and Newley and are now paying the price. How they thought they could play with only two guards is beyond me.

Reply #617138 | Report this post

Air Delay  
Last year

Agree the Kings roster management, particular the guards has been poor. Blake could've been the answer, but couldn't shoot & how Cadee is a starting guard in this league, I dunno???

Lisch did pretty well running the show for the Hawkies last year, but guess they were up tempo & not so reliant on a slow set offence.

Reply #617145 | Report this post

Last year

If kings go down to NZ this week they have a tough finish to season could they get the spoon again, now there is a bit of day light first. :)

Reply #617195 | Report this post

Last year

Lisch can't take over games like Ware, Randle and potentially Cotton, but he's just as good as them. People forget how good of a defender he is as well.

Reply #617206 | Report this post

Last year

I've watched a number of the Kings press conferences this season and notice 3 things.

1)Rarely the captain is at their, instead its
cadee anwsering questions with no substance
apart from backing what gazes anwsers.

2)Gaze continue to take 3 minutes to answer the
questions with fluff and the standard joke to
get laugh from the journalist who by this stage
of the season should demand a serious direct
answer, instead of laughing allowing gaze
to throw off the seriousness of the kings woes
that is now in jeopardy of missing the

3)matt mcQuade practically asking all the
questions but yet he doesn't ask gaze the tough
questions like,

-Why is powell still coming off the bench and
not in the starting lineup?
-Why is powell not a focal part of the offense
in the post?
-Is it time to put the shuffle on the bin and
bring in some new offenses?
-What are you doing to improve the teams
individual and team defense?
-Whos to blame if the kings don't make the

Reply #617241 | Report this post

Last year

Ta for the kind words Air Delay.

^^ Anon, I don't think McQuade would have the courage to ask those questions and he is employed by the Kings in relation to some of their media releases.

I watched the latest press conference and felt somewhat sad for Gaze when he said "one game at a time". If you want to win a championship in a professional competition, you cannot have that mindset as a coach. You are the commander-in-chief, you need to show the confidence that you know what strategy or path to take from day 1.

I have no doubt he works his tail off to make his chosen strategy at the start of the season work but he also needs to have been better prepared that opponents will react to that, and have come up with a counter strategy plus the bravery to abandon your original plan instead of nursing it to death.

Reply #617253 | Report this post

Last year

I just think the biggest issue for the Kings is just not having a suitable back up for Lisch & Cadee. From the start they never thought of this as a potential issue even with Bryson. Yes, Blake was an attempt to correct that but he seemed to have already mentally retired but then they replace Blake with Garrett Jackson.

Lisch looks seriously cooked out there.

Reply #617256 | Report this post

Last year

last I heard mcquade isn't on the kings payroll. he's merely involved with their media because of his love and passion for the kings only recently being shown some appreciation by the club.

he is the only qualified journo with basketball knowledge at the their press conferences and therefore should ask the tough questions to give gaze a chance to give faith to the kings fans the season is over instead going with the soft questions.

Gazes legacy will never be questioned! But he has now step into the coaching arena where we all expect to see results translated from all his playing days and knowledge of the game and quietly receiving advise from his father which is why the shuffle exist.

I'm sure the players had high expectation of gaze coaching at the start of the season and I can only guess watching their body language the last few days, they are now starting to question his coaching.

If the kings don't make the finals, his legacy will mean nothing to the fans!!

Reply #617280 | Report this post

Last year

Mr Gaze needs to select offensive plays/ game style to tailor the talent he has on the Kings team. One of the very first lessons of coaching is just that- fit the system to your players not vice versa.

I understand that he had great success with it as a player years ago, but that was then. The modern player handles the ball a lot more within an offensive set, the shuffle
Is pass and cut or screen away primarily. There really isn't scope for more than one dribble and drive to basket or pull up.

One of the original proponents of the shuffle is the legendary Dean Smith of University of North Carolina fame. He said in his own words, the shuffle is a perfect offence for teams that are short on talent or ability.

Please explain how this applies to the Sydney Kings? They have plenty of talent, far from a shortage.

Much better a spread style game or pick and roll offense that allows the players to create with spacing.

Reply #617300 | Report this post

Last year

Gaze sprouting the usual self belief BS.
Nothing much has changed. One season coach?

Reply #617302 | Report this post

Last year

Let's not get carried away now.
Hopefully for the Kings their lineup has finally stopped changing now and they can settle down. McD-W might just be the difference-maker I reckon.

I was concerned from day 1 about Gaze as a head coach but I think he's doing ok so far all things considered. Things would have to go very pear-shaped from here for him to become a one-season coach.

Reply #617322 | Report this post

Last year

They have already. Everyone was complaining about their over spending etc not long ago and now they are crap all of a sudden.
Powell, all but useless. Cadee flaky, Newley close to MVP, Lisch outstanding when at best but that isn't every game now. Garlepp seeing little court time, Whittington has never delivered on his potential, Maric the same, Jeromie who?
A supposedly stacked side that may even miss out on the finals, despite LV's Kings then daylight oops

Reply #617330 | Report this post

Last year

Sydney's season is really hanging by an edge now ...

"star swingman Brad Newley ruled out indefinitely with a hamstring injury."

Reply #617384 | Report this post

Last year

Well hopefully gaze will give the young dread lock kid ago, looks good every time he's on the floor, good defender and rebounder.

Reply #617392 | Report this post

Last year

That's going to be a significant blow to their finals chances and Gaze harping on about roster depth. He certainly has depth but can he utilize it? MDW and Jackson will probably share Newl's mins.

Last game he had Jackson playing only 5 mins and a few people were convinced that he is utter crap. Fact is, if you are just an afterthought that is not a designated part of the coach's play, then you're going to look like utter crap in very limited minutes. Unless, you ignore the play, your teammates and go for your own stats. That will probably get you perma-benched even if you don't stuff up.

On his debut for the Kings when Newley was injured, I thought Jackson was the second best defender on the floor behind Lisch and their best rebounder on a per minute basis. Kings fans were complaining about them lacking the defensive intensity they had earlier this season, and I was thinking that time, well he could be your answer.

Gaze could have used him to take minutes away from players that won't play D and challenge them to beat his effort if you want to play. Whittington and Powell have become allergic to playing hard D because of the dubious calls they've been getting during the losing streak. I reckon Gaze had the perfect example to show them that you can avoid getting those calls if you move your feet on D like Jackson and stop those lazy reaching fouls.

Reply #617405 | Report this post

Last year

Jackson was lucky to get five minutes against wildcats, I watched it live and the replay twice, his defence was awful, he's known for his offensive game not defending.

Reply #617409 | Report this post

Air Delay  
Last year

Jackson could be good - but going from a marquee import in the SEABL to playing a role in the next step up can be tough.

SteveK2 spot on again with the defensive softness from a few of the players. Give Jackson time in the 4, Hill time in the 5, Moller time in the 3 & the young guard time in the 1-2 & let those guys bust their ass.

Dif with the Kings & every other team is the faith in the bench, which the Kings COULD have arguably had one of the best in the league if used & given faith.

Hill was good last year
Garlepp Kings MVP
Powell a dominant low post force & NBA veteran
Moller a young athletic rebounding machine
& Prewster WAS a solid defender & effort guy last year.

It all went wrong when Blake didn't work out (ironically I thought he'd be the perfect fit) & they made rushed decisions on bringing more players in, showed a lack of faith in the bench guys & burnt out their superstars.

This next game is MASSIVE for the Kings & I truly hope they go back to basics, bust their ass, win the effort plays & get a W to keep this league insanely close like it has been all season.

Lose & I smell blood in the water, media sharks circling & the Kings season spiralling towards the wooden spoon.

Reply #617417 | Report this post

Last year

Yeah I watched the game as well. Jackson's bad D you referred to was his second substitution phase when Gaze assigned him to Matt Knight right? I vaguely recall he got scored on twice by Knight before Gaze came to his senses and assigned him to guard Prather and made him miss from the top of the key.

I did pay particular attention to his D, it was all man to man for the 5 mins total and Gaze was experimenting him on Wagstaff, Brandt, Prather and Knight. He actually did neutralize all except Knight, no surprise there since its an obvious mismatch to Knight's advantage. I was actually suprised that he managed to hold his ground vs. the bigger Brandt and made him miss a low post attempt. Same can't be said about Powell... Brandt went deep enough to score on at least two close range hook shots.

Reply #617427 | Report this post

Air Delay  
Last year

Whilst Powell has had some really strong performances, I haven't liked his body language from the get go.

Reply #617438 | Report this post

Last year

Jackson is useless. Powell has lazy defence and bad attitude. Whittington too soft to play the post - would rather bom from outside. Lisch burnt out because not import PG.

Reply #617537 | Report this post

Last year

Jumpshot, I agree with you on most of the above but Whittington has moved from four , three to two and hardly gets subbed off. Leave him in the four and he'll do good. Lisch has been over used and the the non use of Prewster is not known, why have them if you don't play them. Powel has gone backwards and Jackson is a typical kings type of signing, who knows what for and Hill sits on the bench.

It's been obvious that a back up guard was required, though the kings did play Ben knight last season so maybe one of copeland or Kendall could come off the coaches bench. :):)

Reply #617548 | Report this post

Last year

Hopefully for the Kings their lineup has finally stopped changing now
Nice one!

Reply #617578 | Report this post


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