Air Delay
Years ago

The Death of Aussie Point Guards

I don't know about you all, but I hate hearing the term 'combo guard'. I'm all for versatility & players being able to play multiple positions, but I feel the combo guard notion has crept in to our sport & killed off the development of faster, penetrating, creating Aussie point guards.

Of all the teams in the NBL, it saddens me that we have to import our PGs, apart from Gibson & Martin.

Where does this all start? I didn't think I was that old, but my view on a team is your PG runs the show on the court, like your on-court coach, & reads the D to play what's in front of them... similar to the death of natural player makers in rugby league, have we killed the Aussie point guard?

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paul  
Years ago

Starting PGs are four Aussies and four Americans - Martin, Norton, Cadee and Gibson; Randle, Ware, Dillard and Trice.

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Air Delay  
Years ago

I'd argue Cadee is a shooting guard : )

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Train  
Years ago

Your forgetting about Corben Wroe ;)

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paul  
Years ago

I'd argue that he's their PG ;-)

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paul  
Years ago

Regardless, there are plenty of Aussies making contributions as PGs this season, as there are pretty much every season. D Martin, R Martin, Norton, Cadee, Gibson, Tueta, Bruce, Weeks and Tomlinson.

Obviously there are significantly different levels amongst that crew, but when only four imports are starting PGs I think reports of the death of Aussie PGs are greatly exaggerated!

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Dazz  
Years ago

Actually I'd say we're well served for Aussie PGs at the moment.

Yes a PG is, for want of better terminology, the on-court "General", and yes I suppose if you look at that in its purest form, there is less onus on the PG to score himself. Martin is probably the best exmaple at the moment.
But the NBL has always relied heavily on import PGs, and as such preference was always given to guys who could also score.

I suppose you could break "Combo" guards into two categories.
The first is a SG who can also handle the ball reasonably well. He may run the point occasionally as a back-up, but also in the modern game and shorter clocks, you need more than one guard who can handle and distribute. That's precisely why JJ was sacked (twice). Beal and Lisch are just a couple of examples.
The second is a PG, who scores so well that he could play the SG role. Randle and Ware are the two current greats in that department. Cotton is also in the same category, being predominately a PG, but being recruited to fill the SG role.

There have been some great Aussie PGs over the years, and there still are. But the NBL has also relied heavily on imports, and I think that will continue.

Part of the issue, is that for many players, as you proceed upwards, you also move further from the basket. I remember reading of an NBA PG, who actually played centre as a kid. That's why many Americans thrive in the NBL. Guys who grew up playing as forwards, but aren't big enough to play as PF, or good enough outside to play SF, in the NBA, can come out here and dominate at PF. So at the periphery, you've got these uber talented little guys, who are just too small to play NBA, but they make awesome NBL PGs.

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Indominos-Rex  
Years ago

You would be wrong Paul :) He's announced as a SG during the Kings starting lineup intros. Lisch is the Kings starting PG.

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Indominos-Rex  
Years ago

You would be wrong Paul :) He's announced as a SG during the Kings starting lineup intros. Lisch is the Kings starting PG.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Leading NBA point guards - Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Paul, Irving.

The days of an NBL point guard just running the show on the court and not being a threat to score are over.

I am glad the likes of Randle and Ware are in the league, they make the product on the floor more entertaining.

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Air Delay  
Years ago

Cheers for the insightful read @Dazz.

Maybe because the Kings don't know who their PG is could be another reason for their stuttering offense?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The days of the pass 1st PGs are long gone. You have to be able to put the ball in the basket.

How many aussie PGs can average more than 15 a game?

How many aussie PGs can creat their own shot?

The game has changed immensely.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Any PGs coming up from college?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Rather than looking at the future as the death of anything, why not accept it is just the birth of something new and get on with enjoying the next generation?

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paul  
Years ago

Rex, I'll go by what I see rather than what the court announcer says! What I see is Cadee initiating the majority of sets and doing the majority of directing of teammates.

Lisch spends his fair share of time there too, but he doesn't have a great feel for directing teammates, which is certainly shown by how bad the Kings have been over the season with Cadee on the bench.

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lawsy  
Years ago

Your modern day PG needs to be super athletic, create his own shot but able to get into the lane and split those double teams at top of key to create a hammer dunk for himself or teammate. Your average Australian is not as athletic as an American, so hence why you are seeing Cottons, Ware, randle etc dominate.

It's such an important position - look at the NBA, more often than not, your PG is now your leading scorer, or if not, will be top 2..

Please no one ever again call Cadee a PG- he is undersized overrated guard

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Australia has always struggled to create good playmakers. Even our best point guards like gaze and Heal were mainly great because of their scoring/shooting ability.

Yes Damian Martin is the point guard but there are probably more plays than not where his main role is off the ball whilst cotton or Prather create.

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paul  
Years ago

There are different types of PGs in the international game though, including those who run the show but don't have the ball in their hands a lot. Martin certainly fits that category.

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Air Delay  
Years ago

Nice one @Lawsey.
Agree.
The only reason Cadee handles so much is because every team pressures the life out of Lisch to make Cadee be the main handler...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think something else that contributes to the number of import PG's is that there are so many high quality guards around the world in all leagues. Sort of like a bit of a supply and demand type situation. Surplus of PG's everywhere means high quality guys like Randle/Ware/Cotton/Lisch/etc are available to teams like ours in the NBL. When guys that good are available, you take them. Where as finding an import big man or even a wing player who plays at their kind of level is a lot harder because there aren't as many around.

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paul  
Years ago

Out of interest, the number of starting import PGs (off the top of my head) since the change to 40 minutes:

2010 5/8
2011 4/8
2012 5/8
2013 5/8
2014 4/8
2015 6/8
2016 4/8
2017 4/8

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koberulz  
Years ago

Do you think the change to 40 minutes is significant, or was it just the best cutoff point you could think of?

There haven't been eight teams that entire time; between Sydney coming back in and Gold Coast folding there were nine.

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Indominos-Rex  
Years ago

Fair enough @paul. I thought you were speaking in a technical way, but I see what you mean. Lisch is not a natural PG at all.

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paul  
Years ago

Yeah, and let's be honest, in most NBL backcourts they share PG duties anyway given how much teams trap and disrupt.

Kobes, yes good point, 2011 and 12 had nine teams. And yeah it was just an easy point I could get back to by memory without having to waste time delving through old boxscores.

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Dazz  
Years ago

And let me blunt and un-PC, part of it is simple genetics. The vast majority of good import PGs we get are Black Americans. Same reason we don't win many medals in the 100m sprints.

With the increased racial diversity in Australia, things may change, but lets not forget that if the NBL had been around 60 years ago, we wouldn't have allowed these guys to even get off the boat.

I would love to see more Indigenous kids picking up basketball.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

WTF? ^

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SteveK2  
Years ago

You should start following McDowell White then Dazz. He is being touted as indigenous and a PG to boot.

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Matt  
Years ago

The off-guard/or combo guard is nothing new.
Cal Bruton/Al Green/Shane Heal(probably). Heck Michael Jordan actually played about 10 games for the Bulls in the 80's with a lot of success at point guard.
The combo-guard provides a lot of utility value, as we see with a guy like Kevin Lisch. Robert Rose could play point-guard when required, with success, Steve Woodbury to.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Phoenix Suns (1996-1998)
After graduating with a degree in sociology, Steve Nash was selected 15th overall by the Phoenix Suns in the first round of the 1996 NBA draft. Upon hearing the draft announcement, Suns fans booed in disapproval of the relatively unknown player. Dazz booed because simple genetics dictated that he would never amount to anything.

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