I say welcome to Ringwood, but hope they don't de-list their senior Big V team because of this decision.

I wouldn't have thought that'd be necessary for them Bear.

@Bear - They seem to have a solid core who know each other well...they'd probably just get a bit more athletic in 1 of the import sports and they'd at least be pretty competitive.

What makes teams in SEABL competitive in women's is experienced, physical and quicker players overall. More teams of equal ability.

The difference in the women's leagues is not that big of a gap to overcome it's just the speed of the game is faster a little more physical and all in the first 5 can score.

The Men's comp is miles apart and it would definitely take a bit of coin and a revamp of roster to be competitive. 1-8 need to be high quality.

With the rules now allowing for 3 restricted players and a change in the restricted rules teams will get even deeper.

Sorry Flow, but the SEABL women's teams are not ALL equal, in both conferences their is a very clear defining line between the top three or four teams, those regularly at the bottom like Albury, Frankston, Sandringham etc have a similar make up to BigV....one or two dominant players, another three or four ok players then really weak benches.

How BigV teams that are consistently struggling at that level can even get into SEABL is crazy, though I think Ringwood if any could make that transition well

From the people I have spoken to it is Ringwood is a question of 'when' not 'if' it goes to SEABL. It will be either next year or the year after.

I hear SEABL is also going to be starting D-League up again so will be a considerable exit of teams from Big V. Can any one shed some light on this?

I disagree, the difference is the bottom sides your talking about is that they rely on Juniors to fill their rosters and starting line ups. That's the difference in those teams from the top to bottom. Dandenong, Kilsyth, Geelong, and Bendigo are all senior laden sides, Albury has no junior program to choose from nor many locals but had only 5 senior players total and 2 juniors started. Frankston chose to go young with no Youth league they had 6 senior players and also started juniors. Sandringham in my opinion is a management issue. 3 coaches in 4 years no stability but even they played juniors also I think.

Most all teams play juniors but they don't rely on them like those teams you listed. I bet if you compiled a list from best teams to worst with the exception of the COE you will see a correlation between how many juniors the top teams have on their roster and how many the bottom have. The lower you go the more number of 15, 16 and 18 year old's on the roster.

There are two issues with this kind of club movement I think.

1. Doesn't the SEABL have an issue around venues and game presentation standards with these types of clubs?

I don't claim to be an expert on all SEABL venues but Dandenong, Kilsyth, etc have much bigger seating capacities and clubs like Hobart and Bendigo really appear to strive for a much higher quality of game presentation than a Ringwood or DV can possibly achieve within their stadiums. Are DV still playing on that main court at Greensborough?

If I was a SEABL club that had really put a lot of work into these sort of things I am not sure I would be that happy about small, poorly presented game venue coming into the league, it drags everyone down.

2. Does this Vic focus actually make the league less attractive - to players in particular?

It seems unlikely expansion for SEABL will come from SA or even NSW but since Brisbane left, there are now just 12 interstate teams. 4 of those come from Canberra, 4 from Tassie, 3 from NSW and 1 from SA. Of those the COE's participation is at times disrupted. If you are a Melbourne based team, you only fly twice these days... to Tassie and Canberra... although I have heard of Melbourne teams bussing it to Canberra.

Surely the relevance of the SEABL as a league is about geographical representation, which sets it apart from the State leagues (the interstate travel was seen as a selling point in the past). You can argue all you like that it is spread across five states (for women four)... but being even more Victoria focused cannot be great for it.

HO, I think you'll find Diamond Valley will play their games out of Community Bank Stadium. Much newer stadium, with much more seating. Their council is also looking at a major redevelopment of DV's current stadium, so you would have to imagine that some funding for that would be tied to their move into SEABL.

Community Bank Stadium has no change rooms so highly unlikely it will be there. Think the old DV stadium will be home for SEABL games until the planned upgrade occurs.

Personally I think all wnbl and nbl teams should have a SEABL team as their development group, so their bench players can get some good court time under their belts, no imports , no starters allowed, it then also gives the DPS the opportunity, that would be a far better system to improve overall standard of Aussie players , added to that those clubs that can afford a couple of imports and half decent players , this would make for a good second tier development league all round.

I was wondering the same thing about Ringwood's stadium. Small capacity and pretty tight at each end of the court too..

Next season? Or the one after?

2019 they would be the club having a look. Perhaps coming in at the same time and Knox rejoins.

Watch this space.........2019 will be a year of change. Not sure where the City of Casey fit into that?

Just a question, where is the support for Casey coming from?

Yes, great new stadium and a huge growth corridor, but men are currently 7th in SCM and women are a top team in D1, not SCW...

Ringwood's stadium not as good, granted, however men are top of SCM and women are thereabouts in top three of SCW.

It is Knox who I consider the best placed team to climb back into SEABL, to be honest...

Casey have more $$$ to fund the SEABL roster, the team that sits 7th now will not be the team next year. Ringwood I think already spend what they can.

Actually, I didn't factor in the cash situation that much, interesting, yes well that would explain a lot...

So, if Casey are planning to get a brand new team for entering SEABL (Womens too if they join at the same time ?), where exactly do they get these SEABL quality players from ?

Their current roster is made up of ex Dandenong & Frankston SEABL players, so where do they get two brand new teams from ?

So we get the typical situation where a small number of aspirational committee members and coaches will enter their club's teams in SEABL with the spin that 'we need this to give the juniors something to aspire to', and then promptly buy in players from other clubs or states, thereby reducing the opportunities for their own junior players, all while spending $200,000+ of the club's money to get into SEABL. The next stage will be that we need to spend even more to be competitive in SEABL.

Buy in players?

Most clubs only have one or two juniors in the senior teams anyway as alot of people move for Study/works etc away or to other parts of a city so continuing to play for the local club isn't practical.

I don't understand the obsession with "we have to have juniors" when in relatiy its all bout pathway and if we gradute a few to the senior team great if not we should be putting the best possible team on the court each and every week regardless of where those kids played junior basketball.


Do we except an adult not to ever leave mummy and daddy's house so they can stay at there junior club to play senior bball? Get in the real world people

Re: reality and others
'Having the best possible team on the court each and every week' to what end. Having a SEABL team doesn't pull in crowds or sponsors- any sponsors that sign up do so on the basis of access to the club's database of members. Most of the imported players have no long-term relationship with the club- why would they as they need to earn the best living possible and would (rightly) move to do so.

But if you really want to be realistic, then let the senior representative teams actually be self-funding. By my most generous estimates, cost of $250,000, sponsorship of $50,000 (I said I was generous), average paying spectatorship of 200 people for 10 home games all supported by volunteer staff = door entry of $125 per person. Otherwise, the rest of us are subsidising your leisure pursuits.

Its a pathway for juniors to aspire to but lets be honest most don't ever make it or if they do most aren't playing at the original junior club.

Its should just be a pathway for anyone capable to play at the level regardless of which junior association someone played at as a teenager.

Rumour has it Canberra pulling out of SEABL men. Maybe that is the opening Casey are going to take

So Casey are going to replace their entire current team ? (Men & Women?)
Are the Women entering too ?
Again, the question is, where are these players coming from ?
Take out the two import spots, there wouldn't be too many SEABL and higher quality players not already signed somewhere, which means if they're building two teams from scratch, it'll be recruiting from current teams, presumably in the area.


I'm all for them making the jump. Just wondering how they're going to be competitve without plundering othe local teams in the process.

Canberra on the way out of SEABL isnt fake news! Basketball Canberra reviewing costs and performance of program.

Its meant to mean, that if they don't have the talent themselves, they'll have to take the players from current teams.
Thought that was pretty self explanatory.

I have no effing clue on either the SEABL or Ringwood.
But just on the "must have juniors" debate.
Juniors is where the money is.
Running a successful junior sports club, you spend half your time fighting off various proposals from the seniors.

You can run a junior program for almost nothing. Councils often don't charge for venues or grounds, sponsorship is easy to come by, (especially from Parents with businesses) suppliers give discounts, (and provide sponsorships) and you can rope Parents in to fill all the vital functions, and a sausage sizzle is a gold mine.

I would love to know which councils don't charge court hire. Because every council in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne does.

Ah AD, the oracle when it comes to junior basketball clubs. A good sausage sizzle could make $500.00. That'll go a fair way to paying the $60-$80 per hour Melbourne clubs pay PER court to hire! Suppliers giving discounts? Which ones are those? Sponsorship "falls" off trees! Come to my club AB, we could use you.

Haha,
Been closely involved in running several junior sporting clubs, including BBL. And yes, have had roles such as Treasurer and Registrar, so actually know what I'm talking about.

Point is its a lot cheaper to run a junior program, and generally much easier to turn a surplus and build up a bit of a buffer.

And keep in mind that when I say Juniors, I mean kids. Not U18's.

I probably should have said "next to nothing compared to the costs for seniors."

We used to charge about $100 a season. And that covered everything. We used volunteers for everything.
It gets progressively harder as the kids get older.

In addition to providing a solid financial base, juniors also funnel kids into the senior comps. Sounds obvious, but in juniors you've got parents and schools pushing kids into sport.

All those having a go at AD seem to be missing the salient point here. If it is difficult to find the income to fund the rent, uniforms, administration etc of a basketball club, then adding 250,000+ to fund two SEABL sides (rather than 80,000 for two Big V sides) isn't going to make it any easier.
I sometimes wonder whether BA starts these posts to suggest that SEABL is really attractive, rather than the financial drain it actually is.

Plenty of junior domestic clubs are still charging around $100 per season.