Anonymous
Years ago
Melb Utd took it to OKC, then backed it up with two wins against a tough 36ers outfit, then this......losses. The one change since the winning is CG43. The ball isn't flowing as well, and with Adnam stepping up, am I wrong to question what role should they have Goulding playing? Is he having a decline in his game? What's the future look like for Chris and Melb Utd?
Ive wondered the same, unless Goulding is scoring a heap of points (20+) on a consistent basis I dont think he adds much value on the court. (Doesn't rebound well, make steals or assists and not great at penetrating and creating a foul) He looks a bit slow for a shooting guard so I dont think he is great defensively in his position.
Looking at the last game, other than points he did very little. (1 Rebound, 1 Assist) Melbourne has heaps of scorers, just lacks role players and people who can make others better.
If they had Damian Martin starting with Casper Ware what they lose in scoring they would gain in huge amount of defensive pressure, rebounding, steals etc.. I would imagine they would win a lot more.
Coach should considering benching CG43 and bring him on as a 6 man for some bench scoring. Bit like what Illawara did with Rotnei clark. That might suit him better, less pressure.
LV
Years ago
Fair question because CG has thrived under...
- Anstey- where almost every play was run for him. Because the next best scorer on the team was Wortho. Farrakhan could score a bit too, but came in late and faded badly late in the season. Lucas Walker.... Morrison could score within a foot of the ring.... So CG was plan A & B. And C.
- Demopoulos- "Aiggght! Shoot those threes boys!". Free wheeling.
Now under Vickerman who us more structured, CG is a scorer first and foremost but has to share the ball with Ware and Prather.
Interesting times for CG. True.
I actually think you're spot on with the role player scenario. Barlow doesn't have the energy or quickness he once had, so they should not start him as they did last game. Tai Wesley is a great role play on any team and scores tough post buckets. My lineup would be (for balance) 1.Adnam 2. Ware 3.Prather 4. Tai 5. Boone. CG off the bench! Get the wins and stops trying to just keep CG happy.
CG43's ego is way to big wouldnt fit on the bench
Manu Fieldel
Years ago
Great idea about bringing him off the bench. At the very least to get his confidence going.
If he were to run as the main guy with the ball in his hands, Moller and a rebounding big should be staples in that lineup.
A good lineup would be Hooley, Goulding, Moller, Anderson/Wesley, Majok/Boone. That covers shooting, wing defence and rebounding. Hooley is actually pretty good
Manu Fieldel
Years ago
Is Goulding at the point in his career that winning takes precedence? More likely is that his ego is too big to allow a demotion without a fight
Manu, Adnam far surpasses Hooley, and although I feel Hooley has potential, he has a long way to go.
CG43 peaked at the right time to cash in on when the NBL started to pay higher salaries so at least timimg worked in his favour. For a one dimensional chucker... err player starting from a DP spot he has done well.
Manu Fieldel
Years ago
Adnam is better than Hooley, hence he gets the starting gig in my lineup
Adnam is much better than Hooley but is more a point guard, don't think Casper is a two guard either, go back to Casper, Prather, Moller, Wesley, Boone. Don't think the money that CG is on will make it easy to come on as sixth man. The use of the subs the last two rounds has been crap, Barlow starting oh please he should be emergency. It's strange how disjointed it has been since CG has been back.
Should be a pinch hitter scorer off the bench when Ware isnt firing.
Or run him soley with the second unit and let it go through him.
Basically, get him off the starting 5.
United66
Years ago
I agree with the earlier posts... he is very much a scorer but doesn't help with creating or role playing and gives very little else statistically. Those role/glue positions are vital in teams and help the scorers excel... Not sure Melbourne has enough of them this season to balance it out. Defence has always been a big weakness of his too.
WookieE
Years ago
OMG more losses, the coach needs to go and give all the minutes to CG43!11!!!1!!
Oh wait, this isn't a Kings thread..? Don't mind me...
Luuuc
Years ago
In my opinion it was smart to bring in Prather, but yeah I agree that the Goulding hate has reached troll-like proportions here.
There's no reason those two + Ware shouldn't be able to coexist on the same court. None of them should "need" to take 30 shots per game to be effective. That's such a bs concept.
Being a dangerous scoring threat is a good thing for a team to have multiples of. Doesn't mean they all have to go off every game, it means a coach has more options to generate points, and defences have to pick their poison.
There's plenty of time for United to get their shit together and make it work.
Chairman Of The Bored
Years ago
I haven't seen the last two games, but his first game back CG looked completely lost out on the court. Almost like he didn't even know the sets or the game plan. Probably a bit of rust more than anything, but you'd think he'd have got back up to match speed by now.
TokotoRulz
Years ago
The big difference between a team like Melb and team like Perth is mental toughness.
On paper Melb is star studded, but what you don't see is how well they gel, what their team morals are and how they work together as team in the face of adversity.
Hate the wildcats all you want, but whene it comes to on court mental toughness you won't find a stronger, tougher collective unit tougher than Martin, Hire, Wagstaff, Knight.
While these four aren't the superstars or major contributors to the team anymore, they are the nucleus that drives it, and it extends to the new recruits. Kenny, Walker, DKD and the imports have all bought into it. It's also the reason Cotton came back.
When the ship begins to topple you can count on this core to keep it stable and make sure everyone is mentally focused.
Melbourne doesn't have this and it will be their downfall.
CG43 for all his talent, is not the mentally strong leader to set the tone for a team. He himself, reacts to refs and complains, a lot. If that is your leader then everyone else will follow suit - and it's shown to be the case so far.
I also think Adelaide will be the next Perth, with their young core of Aussies who have come up together and are developing their own culture.
I think some of you are missing the point of you say it's trolling! They have dropped games when he came into the lineup! Goulding or Prather? Prather all day! Adnam shouldn't start over Goulding? Well Goulding isn't a PG mate, so yeah, I think he should for the balance of the team. If Goulding wanted to win, he'd volunteer to come off the bench to win!
Tokoto +2 I'll add that Damien Martin is the best leader, does so much that you don't get stats for.
Re Goulding coming off the bench I think if he bought in it would work very effective, giving more space for Prather and Ware, against OKC Prather was down, Ware fantastic, as Prather got back to his best Ware has struggled. United has depth but Vickerman doesn't seam to change it up a lot, very much like when he was at breakers and even Sydney last season.
I think Goulding is a fantastic player but would run his own offence with the benchies.
Wouldve rather have seen Blanchfield stay and Goulding go.
Wouldve rather have seen Blanchfield stay and Goulding go.
Telling the harsh truth about Goulding isn't trolling.
Luckily for Utd he was injured when they went to the US, imagine the chucking he would've been doing vs. OKC in hopes of impressing NBA scouts.
LoveBroker
Years ago
I honestly thought this season would see Goulding score less (due to the presence of Ware and Prather) but score more efficiently (he doesn't have to shoulder the responsibility of one out offence).
Really having Ware and Prather (2 high IQ players) as partners should have seen him get better looks.
I expect him to still get several 20+ point games but less.
The early season operation probably saw Prather elevated to option #2 ahead of CG but CG can still be a very dangerous weapon even as the third choice.
Don't rub your hands with glee too much, I expect United to bounce back when things fall into place. Remember thats Vickerman at the helm not DD.
Camel 31
Years ago
For me , I think after he got fifty , it was downhill from there in his attitude.... and form...
Easy for Perth fans to speak now about how much better they are than United, but let's not forget the teams' comparative schedules. United have had all but 1 game away and had the US trip in there too for added complications. Then losing Goulding was disruptive.
Of United's road games, two were against Adelaide and one was against Perth too, two of the consensus Top 3 teams.
Perth has played all but 1 game at home, and the one time they went on the road they got their pants pulled down by Cairns.
So let's not get carried away just yet until the schedule evens out a little bit.
Hogwash
Years ago
Only 10 ppg . Adnam 9.6 in less than 15 mins a game
Goulding's body language has been horrific... sitting on the bench after being substituted sulking with his face in his hands. Whether that behaviour is anger towards himself for his play or the substitution itself, it doesn’t matter. With the effort he is showing on both ends of the floor, he deserves to be sitting on the bench. At the end of the day, Vickerman needs to wake up and draw a line in the sand, and quickly.
Offensively, he isn’t pushing himself. He isn’t going hard enough to get open and is regularly jacking up shots (not in space) over defence. The result so far is amongst worst FG percentages from a starting guard in the league. He is becoming a bit of a black hole and you can see his team mates are getting frustrated with him.
But defensively is where it all begins. His effort, assertiveness and intensity are at career lows. He seems completely disinterested out there. Where he once once took pride in at least trying to shut down his opponent, he is now a revolving door relying on Boone to clean to clean up his mess. He needs to rediscover this part of his game and quickly because it is translating to the offensive end where his true talents lie. It all comes down to a bit of pride and blue collar effort.
I’ve been watching him play since his junior days (I even played against him a number of times many years ago) and I’ve never seen him like this. Wake up Chris! You’re supposed to be one of the top players in the league....
Similar things happen to a lot of star players, they eventually lose rhythm and start a rapid decline. Look at guys like Danny Granger, Josh Smith Darius Miles, Jeff Green...., many more. There just comes a point where players start a decline. He will be a solid NBL player and is still potent enough to have a few big games, but he is no longer the player for an NBL team to build around, rather a player to add some depth, talent and offensive fire power. I'd be surprised if he is with Melb next season. I see him joining Brisbane as an early prediction.
Sure, scheduling is the reason a starting 5 can't play as a team...
The topic is Goulding who didn't even play 2 of those away games.
Reaching a little too hard.
Luke
Years ago
I Think some people are underestimating how much an appendix op etc can take out of you, especially when trying to compete at an elite level of sport. Also off season ankle surgery.
Calm down everyone, the sky isn't falling, just will take a while to get back into rhythm. Body language etc not great but there would obviously be a level of frustration.
FM
Years ago
Eddie Betts made 4 goals in his return from appendectomy game. 10 days post op
paul
Years ago
Goulding was superb for Melbourne last year, he had the third highest +/- in the league (behind Randle and Cotton) and the fourth highest +/- differential.
Once he gets his legs back after his op he'll be one of the best players in the league once again.
No Paul, the balance of the team will dictate that Goulding has an off year. Right now a lineup change should happen, and with Shannon Shorter back, the Sixers will win in Melb this weekend.
If the ball moves well, and lineup of Adnam, Casper, Prather, Wesley and Boone would be dangerous. Then CG could go to work in the second lineup.
paul
Years ago
I would change it to Boone, Andersen, Prather, Goulding, Ware. No point having a ball-dominant player like Wesley starting with Prather, Goulding and Ware.
That five also gives Andersen better defensive protection than he's getting coming off the bench.
paul
Years ago
Come to think of it, I think they started Barlow at PF on Saturday but it didn't really work. I say get DA in there, he's made a career of feeding off great players, it's a perfect spot for him.
"Ball dominant player like Wesley" Goulding is the most ball dominate player in the whole league, that's why they need to move him to 6th man.
paul
Years ago
Wesley generally needs a play run for him to be effective, usually via a low-post iso. Jerome Randle and Jamar Wilson are also ball dominant, they make plays with ball in hand.
Goulding can do that, but he also creates a lot of shots for himself and others by his work away from the ball, similar to Rotnei Clarke, Tom Abercrombie, David Andersen and Kirk Penney.
The beauty of DA is he makes an offence better even without touching the ball, something Wesley doesn't really do.
On the other hand, once you go to the bench with fewer scoring options, having a focal point like Wesley in the post can be helpful - you have role players standing and watching than gun scorers.
Lets be honest Perth are wining it again this season so if i am the united i think i need a culture change. Stop trying to buy a championship and start putting a team togeter not a bunch of talented individuals.
Spot Up
Years ago
Melbourne have done the right thing putting together the best list they can. It's up to the coach to get them to play as a team, and up to the players to buy in.
Good on ya spot up for talking all the theoretical bullshit that ppl like you think. Thanks.
Spot Up
Years ago
People like me? So your approach would be to turn away good players then? That makes sense.
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