Indiana
Years ago

Tech fouls

Anyone having problems with Tech fouls handed out This season?
Having trouble adjusting to the "no conversation " style in vogue at the moment.

Topic #5703 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes i was given 2 techs at the simultaneouslyn at Starplex because i stood up and yelled "Hey! You have got to be kidding me!" because my player got slammed on a fast break from behind into a wall and then wasnt moving, whilst play continued around her, until the ball went out of court.
And somehow i wasnt ejected.

Reply #64489 | Report this post


Indiana  
Years ago

Ditto
I was out with no warning and two techs in the same breath!!
Is this the benchmark now??
I am amazed .
Our refs will have no chance of making it if (national or international)if they dont learn early that communication is not a tech' and that we are only there for the players!!

Reply #64491 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Your only there for the players indiana why are you talking to the ref then, i say talk to your players and dont talk to the ref and you wont be out. about time something like this started to happen, but i can see all the coaches crying back to their clubs and the clubs complaining to bsa and then the umps being told to relax a bit and then even more refs leaving.

Say what you like to players.
Say nothing to refs.
That should be a new by-law

Reply #64492 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

How about UIC doing their jobs and getting out and watching the referees...? How about a formal arrangement where both umpires speak to the coaches before the game and explain their "plan" for how the games going to be umpired.

This has happened in local footy for years - umpires come in, say g'day to the coach and players and tell them how they are going to call the game.

"Forewarned is forearmed"!!!

Reply #64505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

pickles' at aba etc that does happen

great in theory with the footy those umpires would only be doing the one game and can take the time

not saying it shouldn't be done but if you take the scenario with juniors or even social basketball you will have umpires doing multiple games with a very short time between games to take care of scoresheets, grab a drink go to the toilet, talk to or find their partners there may not be time for them to speak to the coaches.

that being said - zero tolerance policy has been widely circulated and it should not be a surprise to anyone that is being enforced.

Reply #64510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

some supporter from norwood sweared and did the finger and got ejected but still fought and got 6 techs

Reply #64512 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hey pickles housemate here is how we are going to call the game, advantage disadvantage, if you team gains an unfair advantage by causing contact we will call a foul, if their team gains an unfair advantage by causing contact we will call a foul, if u dribble the ball with 2 hands we will call a violation, if you pass from the front court to the back court we will call a violation .....

Do you want the refs to explain every rule....football is significantly different to basketball in that they dont (usually) change rule interpretations during a season.

Personally I think the coach should be able to ask in a rational way for an interpretation of a rule during a break in the game ie a time out or during a quarter time break, yelling "Hey! You have got to be kidding me!" is probably not within those guidelines

Reply #64514 | Report this post


In the Know  
Years ago

well done anon , as usually an umpire over reacting. I don't think what Pickles said was unrealistic. Maybe not for social but it wouldn't hurt for district games.

Reply #64520 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Well done In The Know, i am not an umpire - so maybe you arent in the know as much as you think.

I dont see why an umpire has to tell a coach how they are going to call the game. Arent all games played to the same rules, therefore there shouldnt be any need to remind coaches how they are going to call the games. Perhaps there is a perceived problem in that some coaches like to push the boundary of the rules ie some coaches like the players to have more body contact and they dont see that as a problem, but they want to know if the umpires are going to call that - perhaps there lies the problem. If you play within the rules there shouldnt be a problem with the umpires.

Umpires should definetely meet the coaches and shake hands but I think that is about it.

Reply #64532 | Report this post


Bob Knight  
Years ago

Throw a chair onto the court if the Ref's aren't listening to you. Just make sure it's not bolted to the ground otherwise you look like a complete idiot.

Reply #64533 | Report this post


In the Know  
Years ago

Anon, Next time then don't say 'we' in your statements. I still think you are an umpire. They don't have to say how they are calling the game, just an introduction.

Reply #64536 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I did too, apologies for my remark at the start of my post.

If u knew me u would know I am not an umpire - I wouldnt be able to keep up with the game :)

Reply #64542 | Report this post


Phantom  
Years ago

I agree that referee's at the moment are tech foul happy, but at the same time we have alot of jnr umpires at the moment. And with coaches yelling out at them all the time, no wonder we have a shortage of umpires.

Yes im guilty of yelling at ref's, but as are most coaches.

there is no where in the rule book that says u must give the coach a warning b4 giving them a tech.

Reply #64543 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bob I'd say throwing a chair on court would garner you a tech - and possibly a report

good advice for all the youngster's that read this site

why not tell them to kick the cat or the dog and abuse their parents while you are at it.

Reply #64544 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Unfortunately its not the junior refs that are the worry.

Reply #64550 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

What? Like this? (Sorry to steal your thunder, Bob!)

[Here goes my second ever attempt at posting a picture.]

Reply #64551 | Report this post


Indiana  
Years ago

Interesting Responses!!!
Both the incidents described dont involve the questioning of a call...its the selective non calling. No Umpire in charge at the game..Where is the feedback and education going into this umpire. This is the key problem in SA. The system of education does not involve a feedback mechanism or any protection for officials , because the network certainly wasn't there the night I was ejected. It was also the first instance in the game that I had spoken to the official even though she had called 15 foul to quarter time. The 7pm game finished at 8.45pm!!

Reply #64566 | Report this post


Pete Mitchell  
Years ago

The problem with a ref telling a coach how they are going to "call a game" is that what if the players do something out of the ordinary. What if the biggest guy on a team goes down with an injury in the first minute? Wouldn't then that change the enitre dynamics of the team and thus the style that the team plays change as well? Then, the referees have said that they are reffing in relation to the original team!

Reply #64568 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hmm... I think I know who you are and what game you're referring to and also the ref you're referring to here Indiana. IF it is the game I'm thinking about it was quite a shock to see it happen, I dont think anyone was expecting it at all.

Reply #64569 | Report this post


Tom Kazanski  
Years ago

Pete, You can be my wingman any time.

Reply #64570 | Report this post


Indiana  
Years ago

Let me tell you I have been coaching for 25 years up to international level and I have never been ejected !!
It was not one of my proudest moments and yes I will have to adapt.
But that stil does not help our young officials when it comes to a national final or being promoted to the ABA...they just wont have the grounding to cope at that level...or rather we would like to see them flourish.
The are being precluded and they dont even know it!

Reply #64573 | Report this post


Pete Mitchell  
Years ago

Tom,

BULLSHIT, You can be mine!

Reply #64576 | Report this post


Bob Knight  
Years ago

Ah, the memories Moses.

Anon (#64544) - Chill out Dude, I was just trying to lighten the mood.

Reply #64580 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

I was thinking more of higher level basketball than social when i made my comments on the situation.

I have only one problem with the zero tolerance policy - it is not enforced consistently. I've seen games where 1 coach has disputed a call with the umpire, and then the other one has later on and received a tech foul...!

I think the only thing coaches and players should ask is that the umpires be consistent.

UIC's play a VERY LARGE role in the consistency of umpires.

Reply #64584 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I posted the second comment (#64489) and i think yelling would be fair for reasons such as:
- I was down the other end of the court
- The umpire did not go up towards the bench to call both techs
- The game on the next court was very loud
- My player was lying on the ground whilst the game was continuing around her- injury time out should have been called immediately.
- And my "yell" isnt the same as everyone elses "yell"- i have a habit of mumbling when i normally speak.

So to anonymous #64514 my "yelling" isnt so over the top as you make it out to be.

I am a accredited Level 2 ref, so I do recognise a foul when I see one, and part of my coaching at trainings is teaching my team to keep their hands out etc, and if they foul at games and its called- I tell them they were wrong and to not complain.

The incident i referred was one I very disappointed in. I had just asked the umpire to tell the opposing coach he isnt allowed to walk a metre inside the court- its a tech. He was also yelling for subs when they were not allowed and screaming at the refs. I am not accusing of bias, but if i received 2 techs for my 'outburst' - then why didnt he?

I am not proud of getting techs- they are a detriment to the team, self and club- but as my player was in danger- i do not regret it.

Hope that clears the air a little and apologies for a long post.


Reply #64586 | Report this post


Indiana  
Years ago

No apologies needed.
The problems are actually different at each stadia.
The quality is dependent on the program. I have seen woodville(DHD) on a saturday, it has been wonderful ...with meaningful instruction and older experienced officials. a far cry from other times and places.

Reply #64588 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Got an idea for you Indiana.

Instead of blindly complaining about the situation on a forum, which will fail to accomplish any change, why not use your '25 years of coaching experience up to international level' and help coach the referees you are critising?

Reply #64595 | Report this post


INDIANA  
Years ago

This is not my role anon!!!
But the prob is obvious isnt it?
The culture is not what it could be, and my hands are full in my role. Those who are responsible take ownership of the officials and make the changes. Enough whining though...It was still my responsibility to support them not badger them...so point taken.

Reply #64604 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon #64586 - level 2 ref hey, wouldnt be at all surprised if i knew who you were.

Reply #64611 | Report this post


FM  
Years ago

In reply to anon #64586

I thought the rules are quite clear on fouls. It doesn't matter what you think is fair or unfair. It doesnt matter if you think it gained an advantage / created a disadvantage. What matters to make any contact a foul is what the 2 / 3 officials out there think. Your version is normally different to theirs, that is always the coaches view.

The view that the other coach has been yelling all game and then I said "......" doesnt count. Officials are people and at sometime during all this abuse they are going to reach that level where they can longer receive anymore (hence they T-up). A good idea is 'don't be that person who goes over the threshold'.

Reply #64652 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

Indiana coaches and at face-value he seems to do a good job. Let him coach the players, and lets have some money made available to the porrp erson who wants teh unenviable task of lifting the consistency of umpires through all levels of basketball.

I state again that (IMO)if the "zero Tolerance" policy was enforced 100% by every referee, then coaches, players and refs would all be a lot happier, as they would all know where they stand.

The problem is that most refs don't like the policy, and therefore dont want to enforce it.

Coaches are stuck because they might have one Dictator-style referee and an approachable "chatty" referee... speak to the wrong one and Bang! Tech.

Reply #64843 | Report this post


Phantom  
Years ago

I agree totally with you pickles housemate.

For example, u get a referee like Nath Durant, Daniel Hughes you can talk to.
But on the other extreme referee's like Leigh Newbury, Alex jordan that you look at them side ways and they Tech u straight up.

I think the difference between these types of referee's apart from experience is the fact that Nath and Daniel have been involved with top division basketball, not just as players but also and coaches so therefore they understand the frustrations as a player, coach and a referee.

You cant teach experience, but when the senior referee's spend time talking to these less experienced referee they should listen. Unfortunaly these days they don't.

Many years ago these such referee's would be asked to leave and have been. But due to the shortage they are back. And there lies the revolving problem of referee's not agreeing with policy's......

Reply #64849 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

Shivers, i actually made sense to someone! :)

Reply #64861 | Report this post


Phantom  
Years ago

lol only this once though.....

Reply #64912 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I am anon #64586 and in response to the fairness issue by FM- I assumed after the other coach breached the zero tolerance rules, myself yelling out what I said without foul language was fair and quite reasonabl. Not because i didnt think it created an advantage or not, but beacuse i had a player who appeared to be semi conscious lying on the ground whilst play was still going on around her. It was not to do with contact or not, it was the fact a safety issue had been severely crossed in a game where it would be reasonable to assume it safe to play.
And i do agree with pickles housemate- if there is zero tolerance, then enforce it on both sides. If i cross the line, so be it, but if someone else does as well, then they should be penalised as well. It shouldnt have to be at each umpires discretion, whether they are dictator style or chatty, whether the coach is young or old, well known, or not. If there is to be zero tolerance, its for everyone.

Reply #64943 | Report this post


Alex Jordan  
Years ago

Hey Phantom if I remember correctly the last few techs you got from me were well earned. I seem to recall a certain incident where you decided that having a yelling match with a referee was a good thing and that even when the referee makes it clear that the discussion is over and you should stop you continued. I think if you wanna abuse referees then you should expect consequences expecially having been a referee yourself.

Reply #64988 | Report this post


Phantom  
Years ago

LMAO Alex, I remember the time well. If you remember why I went off was because I was told by a little up start to SHUT UP. At that stage the manner was not aggressive. (B4 new policy)

First of all if you take umpiring seriouly and u want to make to go as far as you could, then u shouldn't say those kind of things to coaches/players and parents. U are new to the sport and dont realise who certain people are in the stands watching the games.

Secondly what happens in the game stays in the game. If referee's carry their frustrations from one game to the next then may be u should look for another Hobbie.

As I wrote in my last post, yes I have recieved Tech's B4, and am not poud of them. But sometimes have u thought that it is a tactic of the coach to wake te referee up.

But the problem with referee's like yourself is that you dont understand the game.

U go out do ur 2-3 games a nite and go home. Not realising that coaches spend nearly 7 - 10 hours a week training and preparing for that game. And when they have a referee that carry's their personal frustration's from past games, they wonder why they always have a problem with a certain coach.

"Food for thought"

Reply #65039 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

YUM!

Reply #65040 | Report this post


wateva  
Years ago

If a player acts like a chump towards a referee they gotta expect to be treated like one. It don't matter who the player is or who the ref is.

Reply #65252 | Report this post


wateva  
Years ago

If a player acts like a chump towards a referee they gotta expect to be treated like one. It don't matter who the player is or who the ref is.

Reply #65254 | Report this post




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