g-diddy
Years ago

ABL Import woes

I hear the committee met last night regarding the status of south's canadian import. Vote is to be done this week via email to avoid any bullying by clubs. Any information on this?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

what committee, what decision needed to be made?

What bullying? And what's the deal with the second one? i thought two were coming oveR?

Reply #75717 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I dont understand what the problem is of some of these clubs. It's evident some clubs are so self absorbed and would rather see a club struggle than let them even up the competition. Fair enough if a club was signing imports and these imports would have an instrumental influence on the success of their team and thus by signing 2 imports would give a team a clear unfair advantage in the overall competition. Granted the stats of the Canadian currently playing for South are quite good, it is however certainly NOT dramatically any better than your Screens, Randfords, Bowleys etc and because there was the issue with South signing two imports and they therefore couldnt play one, you would assume they would play their better player, so having said that the Canadian that is currently NOT playing, you would assume shes not going to have a dramatic influence on South's games, be any better than the top performers in the league or give South an unfair advantage compared to the rest of the teams in the league. But like I said, most clubs in this competition would rather see an opposing club sit down the bottom end of the ladder rather than see the overall competition even up - a classic example of this is leaving Centrals struggling without a win for 5 years rather than BASA or individual clubs doing something about it, like nominating a Nataional League player (or 2) to go to Centrals.
So I propose these clubs think about their decision and how it affects the quality of the competition overall, are you really that threatened by potentially even and fair games or would you prefer your wins to come via a 'walk in the park?'
My post isnt just in relation to Souths import 'woes' but in general. Perhaps 'distributing' National League players to each club fairly, to see this competition even up, giving clubs more competitive games as opposed to blow outs, give the spectators something to get excited over, use the good quality of our teams to market the sport and give basketball S.A a better name and even make it more inviting for interstate players to come and play here with the knowledge they'll be participating in tough, good quality games. I'm not saying even up the clubs so each team is identical strength wise, thats impossible. Some teams will be deeper and stronger benches, stronger non-national league starters, better coaches, etc etc but at least its an attempt to even up the league more so than what it is now.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually South might be breaking immigration laws, as well as competition laws.

Everybody gets to play under the same rules. Why should some clubs get the chance to play outside of the rules, when others must folloew the rules.

So, by your thinking, easiest way to win a comp is to be really bad for a couple of years. Then be allowed to import extra players because you are bad.

Some clubs are not even allowed to play all of their own juniors.

Whatever happened to development of club players. If South hadn't been managed so badly they wouldn't be in their current position.

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interested  
Years ago

Please tell me why having two 'imports' is any different to a club having two restricted players. Is it also possible that a club can field more than two WNBL players? (in the situation where a WNBL player does not get enough minutes during the season to classify as restricted). Is this the case at forestville this year?

With the state that BSA is in at the moment, why would we not want to promote the league as best possible and let players who have a genuine interest in moving to our state just play.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

What it really boils down to is one club(coach)didnt really know the by-laws and all the others have managed to work within them, so why have a sook cause you got it wrong, and go crying to the umpire to reverse the rule to your favour under the guise of evening up the comp.
Get off your arse and work within the rules."Build it and they will come" to quote a famous quote
I am all for the clubs not to give them the exemptions, because the bylaw was there all along.

Reply #75760 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Probably becasue if they allowed clubs to import as many players as they wanted. Most clubs would not have any local talent.

Looking at the English Soccor Premier League and Spanish National Basketball League, both of these leagues have massive number of players from outside of their local players. England has not won the Soccor World cup in years even though their league is top 3. And the Spanish National Basketball team hasn't won the European Championships for years even though they have the best comp outside of the NBA.

I know that they are very different types of compeititons. But the principle of allowing for local talent to play is the same.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Didnt we do this in the eighties with lots of pain to the pockets of all clubs.
So why would we regress

Reply #75763 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Re: Anon #75755

No, I never said a club should be really bad for a few years then be allowed to import players because they're bad. In fact, I thought I was saying the opposite; that distributing League players or allowing a club to fill a team that will be competitive with the rest of the teams will then avoid the 'Centrals scenario' (nothing personal to Centrals - its just a good example of a team left to struggle) where a team is bad for years on end and everyone turns a blind eye and a deaf ear on their problems, because perhaps the mentality is 'one less team to worry about playing this year' or 'we can pencil in a win there'. Like I said, why not fill teams that are competitive with one another, give basketball S.A a better name and make it more appealing for people to watch and more inviting for interstate players to come and play in, then only increasing the level of quality. It should be about marketting the sport, especially with the situation we in South Australian basketball find our selves currently in.

Reply #75767 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Again, I stated that if a club was importing players that would see that club have an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition, surely it would be different. I'm just saying is this move really that detrimental to basketall in S.A? Is it going to be a decision the clubs voting for it will long to regret? Is it going to be bad marketting for S.A basketball? Or is it just going to even up the competition? Have some compassion for the girl who has come from overseas to play basketball in your state and has been sitting on the sidelines ever since, and have some vision that it will benifit the competition. I can appreciate the other side of the argument, I can appreciate some of you are hell bent rule enforcers and are happy to punish those who have unintentionally 'broken' them.
However, from my understanding South Australia's by-laws are different to those of EVERYWHERE else with this import rule, perhaps with S.A basketball so far behind the times its no wonder we are in the prediciment that we are currently in.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The clubs that struggle are the one's who are mismanaged. If you give them preferential treatment then they mismanage worse in an attepmt to win a ABA premiership.

Why not have them get their administration and junior development in check first. Otherwise they will be back into the same boat 3 years down the track with spiralling debts.

Reply #75771 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The salary cap rule was brought in a few seasons back to curb the over-spending of some clubs on their ABA program. In light of BASA's current financial situation it was a prudent move.

The restricted player rule was bought in by Basketball Australia to prevent teams loading up on import and WNBL talent at the expense of their own player development. Once again, a good move but doesn't cater for clubs who develop lots of WNBL talent from their juniors (discussion for another time!).

The immigration department specifies that clubs must pay imports a minimum living wage and that they must not get any income from any other source. This applies to many industries not just sport and is designed to protect Australian jobs. Again, not too many arguments with this one!

It just happens that the stipulated living wage is a large proportion of the BASA salary cap, thus making it difficult for imports to play in the Central ABL.

Reply #75773 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

So if we were to allow some clubs to ignore the ABL import laws, what would happen to clubs that didn't sign "illegal" (for lack of a better word) imports?

Should a club sign 3 imports next year, would we allow that? and then another club signs 4 the following year? is that ok?

Q: Where does it stop???
A: WITH THE RULES!!!

Reply #75783 | Report this post


Glenn S.  
Years ago

A couple of points I would like to mention. Yes I encouraged 2 canadians to come to South Australia and play. I was unaware of the By-Law differences between the ABA and BSA, outside of the salary cap which has come into effect since I have been here. As for the players being paid, the salary cap being breached and breaking immigration laws I can assure you
a) the canadian players have come to australia on a working holiday visa which classes them as temporary residents and they have been cleared to play by the ABA, Basketball Australia and FIBA Oceania as long as the receive NO PAY.
b) as they are receiving no pay there is no salary cap breach.

I am not trying to break the rules I am trying to put the best team on the floor I can. I stuffed up and wasn't aware of the BSA By-Laws I have to wear that mistake. More importantly there is a player here that wants to play ball and until the club delegates come back with a decision either way she wont be allowed to play div 1 ball. This is a player that just wants to play and trial for the lightning, if the clubs come back with a no then South Australia will most likely lose a capable player to a victorian club and the lightning lose a player that just wants to trial. An import that CANNOT receive money is a pretty tempting prospect for any club.
Like I said she is clear to play from everyone but BSA, now its up to the clubs to make the decision that they believe is best for the sport in this state, Whatever that may be.

I received some interesting feedback from the committee meeting last night, one club was very anti this exemption but in the next breath said that she can come and play for his club. I can assure you that Amy will not play for a club that does not have her best interest in mind.

Reply #75786 | Report this post


Glenn S.  
Years ago

Just so everyone is aware the ABA rules are 2 restricted players (WNBL or imports)

The BSA rules is 2 restricted players but only 1 import

I believe this rule was brought into effect to save the clubs from spending $3400/month to sponsor 2 import players (sponsored players have to be guaranteed $1700/month to fulfill their visa requirements) This problem was taken care of by the salary cap rule.

Like I said I wasn't aware of the rule differences between ABA & BSA and I am sorry to my player that I have put her through this mess.

Reply #75789 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Glenn, well said. Nice to hear straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak).

Reply #75795 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(Mod: Deleted.)

Reply #75802 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

Just wanting to clarify - my previous statement wasn't directed at Glenn Shaw.

My comments were directed towards (#75770).

I'm sure the relevant people will make the appropriate decision. (?)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

the only one import rule has been in for decades.

Woodville when they played SEABL were allowed two imports but when they played state bank league, and that is what our ABA is based on, they could only have one.

Therefore they had Tryone Lee play for them as an import and then 'leased' Kelvin Henderson from West later Murray Bridge so he could play SEABL. And that was back in the late 80s early 90s

Reply #75807 | Report this post


Rite  
Years ago

Actually South might be breaking immigration laws, as well as competition laws...

HAHAHAHAHAHA

So you're saying that the Federal government has let this player into the country illegally?

Vote being done by email? Now that shows the mis-management of the sport. Surely the there is a clear rule on this and the committee does not need to vote on the issue. So does that mean now that every player who is an import needs to be voted upon? I would have though that the player would have to cleared by a number of governing bodies before she is cleared to play for South or any club for that matter.

Reply #75813 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Glen,
as your import is receiving no pay, how is she living & surving in Australia. (ie: expenses, Food, Accomodation, insurance, transport etc).

Reply #75818 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Glen,
as your import is receiving no pay, how is she living & surving in Australia. (ie: expenses, Food, Accomodation, insurance, transport etc).

Reply #75819 | Report this post


Glenn S.  
Years ago

sorry I guess I should have said receiving no money to play basketball, she has a job that is in no way associated with the club or club members, and she can work at that job for up to 3 months (as per visa guidelines).

Reply #75865 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Glenn,

How does somebody inforcing the rules on a club have anything to do with an individual. ie "not having her best interest in mind". Rather they are holding you accountable for your error.

All clubs want to put their best team on the floor. Some do it by developing juniors, others do it by recruiting. Considering some clubs are not allowed to play all of their own juniors, why should your team be allowed to play 2 imports?

Reply #75881 | Report this post


Glenn S.  
Years ago

Anonymous 75881,
I think if you re-read my post you will see I have not said anywhere that I think it should happen one way or another.

I have a question for you, if you were in this situiation as a player, would you want to play for a club that is happy to say no you cant play where you want to...but you can come and play for us. When there are clubs that are saying that they believe that this decision would not hurt the league or the competition and Amy should be allowed to play for South. If the vote doesn't go our way, As a player which club would you want to play for if not your own (South in this case).

I have no problem being accountable for my decisions, actions or errors in this situation I have addmitted my oversight of the BSA bylaws, from here on in I can only act in what I believe is best for my players. That is what I will do.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Who paid for their air-fares over?....

Reply #75987 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Glenn, Based on the Visa requirements it appears that you can only have your player for 3 mths anyway, so the import currently playing will not be able play the full season or finals should you make them. Is this correct?

Reply #75999 | Report this post


two cents worth  
Years ago

ABA rule says two restricted players (imports or wnbl) are we playing ABA by BSA rules? sorry me thinks I missed something...... oh its ABL.

Not sure who posted above about wnbl players being distributed among clubs....should be brought in...ok for junior WNBL players playing for their original club if they are still playing there but others playing in Adelaide (or not for their original club) should be distributed amongst teams under a draft, ballot, lottery system whatever system you want.

Reply #76014 | Report this post


Black Cat  
Years ago

To the anonymous poster (#75807), I really don't know where you got your information from but I think you'll find in the nineties that 50% of teams in SA had 2 imports 2 Sixers or a combonation of both, one team even had three. When Riverland were in the league they had two americans and still struggled due to the lack of local talent. So from memory BSA or Club presidents voted and they were allowed to have a third american, which did make them slightly more competitive (before withdrawing from the league!).

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Wasn't the vote today?? If so how did it go??

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annoymous  
Years ago

Just let the girl play.

Its good for the standed of the aba.

These not many juniors at that level yet ni the aba.

the clubs said no open your eye its good for aba to see these girls play in the comp.

Reply #76378 | Report this post


Lyn Wieland  
Years ago

Black Cat

I was the anon poster you referred to.

as I have recently spent 12 mths researching and writing a "Warriors' Pride" using all of the newspaper articles, club records, minutes of management meetings etc I think you will find what I said was correct.

Woodville leased Molitor from Norwood, they leased Henderson from West then Murray Bridge, they leased Ron Nunnerly from South Adelaide.

Riverland might have had two Americans but I'd question whether Willie Josephs played as an Australian.

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