Gilligan
Years ago

Have Your Say: Stay or Change

There have been plenty of threads regarding the junior structure.

So how about we keep things simple.

Simply type in STAY if you think the competition should stay as is or CHANGE if you think we need to change the structure of the comp.

I'll get things started:

CHANGE
(0 - 1)

Topic #7863 | Report this topic


bush telegraph  
Years ago

change - promo / rel system - all clubs get the grade they nominate but promo interested clubs can vie for 2 extra spots - ie 12 team grades

cap it at Div 4 - but you can have 2 teams in a div

keep state champs the way they were this year - 2 weekends - 16 teams in reserves - only 1 reserve grade

top 6 in finals in 12 team comp, top 5 in 9/10/11 team comp - top 4 if grade has only 8 teams or less

change 0-2

Reply #88025 | Report this post


odin  
Years ago

change

Reply #88026 | Report this post


Change. But make sure its for the better.

Reply #88030 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

Change. But make sure its for the worse.

Reply #88034 | Report this post


Kwest  
Years ago

Change. But make sure it stays the same.

Reply #88039 | Report this post


Vadersmate  
Years ago

Change, but only for changes sake

Reply #88041 | Report this post


who really knows  
Years ago

Stay

Reply #88043 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Change - Give the people something new to whinge about

Reply #88048 | Report this post


pickles housemate  
Years ago

How do people feel about bringing in a regular season qualification rule for State Champs, so clubs with AIS kids can't just waltz them in and walk off with the trophy..?

Reply #88064 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

pickles ... just because you feel like you got hurt by the current rule that's hardly a reason to change it.

I doubt you'd have a problem with the rule for example if you were coaching the Under 20 Tiger boys and Ingles wanted to come back and play State champs would you?

"AIS kids" weren't always AIS kids they played for a local club somewhere before going to the AIS. Why shouldn't they be allowed to come back and compete for their club if the AIS allows them?

Changing rules for th benifit of the competition on a whole is a good thing, changing them because you feel burnt or cheated by the current rule isn't.

State your reasons why the rule should change and try to keep it from being personal.

Reply #88066 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pickles, you want to penalise clubs (including your own) because they are good enough at developing kids to get them into the AIS?

Reply #88074 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

bush telegraph,
Are you trying to strengthen or weaken further the current competition? 12 teams in div 1? Won't that stretch the talent even thinner than it is already, and just mean the top teams play each other even less regularly than they do now?

Talking to some of the Victorian people here this week, they have a major concern that VC has gone to 20 teams (from I think 12??), and saying that it has diluted the standard alarmingly, and not given their elite players "practise" at tough game situations.

Reply #88075 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

12 teams in a comp is not the answer.

That would only mean that more kids would be getting their ar@& handed to them on a Friday night and be pushed closer to quitting.

What would you do in U14 Girls. There is only 8 teams in div 1 and at the end of summer Forrestville and Sturt both had 2 teams in the top 4 of div 2.Would you have 3 Sturt and 3 Forrestville teams in div 1? When on one of these teams from each club being be able to compete with the teams in div 1.

Reply #88080 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

To state the obvious, twelve teams in Div 1 would be fine if there was a better distribution of talented players.
A system that promotes the movement of the better Div 2 players from the stronger clubs to Div 1 in the weaker surely is going to lead to the overall better health of the competition and an improved individual experience.

Reply #88084 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Uh Oh! Not again!

Reply #88085 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hilarious post anon above!
I don't think we could find a better way to reward those clubs who put no effort into junior development! Let's just give them players from clubs that do!

Reply #88086 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ahhh, welcome back. How was ballarat?

Reply #88088 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

What are you about 88086? Isnt rewarding the Div 2 player with an opportunity in Div 1 more important than the club for which they currently play.

Reply #88090 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Improved individual experience?

I think you might find that people don't move to weaker clubs becasue they don't want too. They could now if they wanted to play div 1, but they would rather play div 2 with their friends at a club that will help develop their ability.

If you put div 2 players that are not capable of playing in a div 1 competition into teams with poor coaching that has got them nowhere in the first place, within 2 years they will be right back where they started from. And we will have lost more players from basketball to other sports.

Change now! For the good of basketball not for the good of someclubs who do not put any resources into juniors.

PS 88088 the previous post was not me. But yes I am hsppy to be back!

Reply #88091 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

I am suggesting there be a mechanism by which talented Div 2 players who have reached a ceiling at their existing club be promoted into other clubs, if they so desire. (there may be even an incentive required, like 50% fees for 12 months) What is the point of further development if they cant ever get to apply those skills at the top level. Give the other clubs a chance to develop their teams.
At this point we are looking at the sensible restructure of sa junior basketball not the further promotion of individual clubs.

Reply #88092 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

We're looking at the best way to improve "Elite Junior Basketball" and "Participation Junior Basketball".

You sound like a parent from a weaker club who has very little understanding of where we are at and how things work.

Thankfully ill-informed people/parents like yourself will not be part of the restructuring process.

Reply #88093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

88093, you miss their point.

88092 is talking about ensuring a pathway between the two. Their suggested method may be incorrect but the concept is good.

It is wrong to think elite junior basketball is anything other than junior nationals. Just like elite senior basketball is NBL/National representation.

Div 1 junior basketball is NOT "elite" and there has to be a clear and accessible path between div 2 and div 1 basketball and all the divisions and competitions for that matter. It would be great for the best players and teams playing in Div 1 with Pro/Rel but it has to be possible for amyone that is good enough to get there and those that are not, not to stay there. Otherwise YOU WILL end up with what we have now.

Reply #88095 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

88095 ... Division One isn't elite junior basketball you are right.

But that's the problem. It should be and the current system doesn't allow for that to happen. ABA should be considered elite Senior Basketball. In S.A. it's probably not quite there either.

It is wrong to think that Division One basketball shouldn't be for the elite. In fact some would say District Basketball should be for the elite, and regional basketball (such as City South) should be for everyone else. If your child is playing Div One and doesn't behave like they are playing at the highest level they can in S.A. then they shouldn't be there.

On your other note, any Division Two player has the opportunity to play Division One.

If they're good enough then they'll work their way into their club's Division One side. If that team is too deep then that player always has the choice of going elsewhere. Some do, some don't. The choice always has been there and always will be. To say some sort of system should be set up to encourage players to leave their club and go elsewhere is just ridiculous. And probably will just encourage more to leave the weaker clubs and go to the stronger clubs, no matter what Division they end up playing.

Reply #88097 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isnt rewarding the Div 2 player with an opportunity in Div 1 more important than the club for which they currently play.

I guess you should ask the players who are in the current top div 2 teams. By the very fact that they remain at their club, playing with their mates, in div 2 for years rather than moving indicates to me that, to them, it is not.

Give the other clubs a chance to develop their teams.

All clubs have that chance now with the current structure. Some choose not to.

And how would they be further encouraged to , when they can be handed players from other clubs under your proposal?

Reply #88098 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"If they're good enough then they'll work their way into their club's Division One side."

That is hopefully how it will work under a new structure. Everyone that is good enough should have access to Div 1 basketball, not based on where you live or what you play for.

Reply #88099 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The problem we have at the moment anon 88092 and 88095 is that there are too many Division Two and even Division Three calibre juniors that are playing Division One. The playing base just isn't strong enough to suggest there are 96 Division One Under 16 Boys playing basketball in Adelaide. Let alone 96 Division One Standard girls.

And that's how much we'd need if we had 12 teams in Division One.

Division One needs to be for the elite. No matter which club misses out on a treasured Division One position. It's better for their development that their juniors play in a competion they're competitive in rather then being thumped in Division One anyway.

Reply #88104 | Report this post


Sector 7G  
Years ago

"Everyone that is good enough should have access to Div 1 basketball" - AND decent coaching and coaching programmes. Experience is that they wont get that at many other clubs. All those clubs need to do is fix it. Forestville did and went from a junior program that was a poor to one that now attracts kids because of its depth of coaching.

Reply #88105 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

I refer back to 88092.

Is it unreasonableto put 2nd year Div 2 players on an 'available to transfer' list and circulate to all clubs. It is up to the inviting club and a potential transferee to make contact and negotiate a transfer if so desired.
The transfer period would be strictly between control dates.

Reply #88106 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

88106, anon. While you have a point about ensuring a clear path for thsoe that are good enough to play Div 1, I wish you would try and be more knowledgable about this subject. Players can transfer now, why make it more complicated?

Im not sure any club would appreciate their players being on an "available to transfer list".

Reply #88107 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I'd also think the players themselves might not take kindly to being considered "transfer fodder"!

Anonymous, those players can transfer NOW, with the current system in place, exactly how you have said without the list.

Reply #88112 | Report this post


anonymous  
Years ago

88112

As an authorised Basketball SA transfer system it would be open and transparent. I would expect many players would take advantage of playing at a level which was not available to them at their original club. The system could work either by the new club or player making the first approach in the mandated trade period.

Reply #88115 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kind of like an advertisement system ??? Johnny from U14 Div 2 puts himself up as a hired gun to join a top club. This is the last thing we want. Be sensible.

Reply #88117 | Report this post


3  
Years ago

Every club that has an ABL Div 1 Men's and Women's team should have a team in each Division 1 junior competition, e.g.:
Central District
Eastern
Forestville
North Adelaide
Norwood
South Adelaide
Sturt
West Adelaide
Woodville

There should really only one team per division, per age level. For example, in Under 18's, you can have the above-mentioned 10 teams in Division 1, with 8 players each, making 80 Div 1 players in total.

Add that to Divs 2, 3 and 4 (Division 5 is too much I think), and you then have 32 players per club, per division. Surely numbers are such that that is achievable with quality not being sacrificed.

If there is excess numbers that the 32 wanting to that wanting to play in an age group at any club and then they miss out, then that will be how the quality of District basketball is regulated. Simply put, if you aren't good enough for one of the 32 places in either Div 1, 2, 3 or 4 in your age group at a club, then you unfortunately must miss out.

Also, to maintain quality in the juniors, there should be a rule that states that nobody can play Men's or Women's ABL Div 1 unless they play 3 games in Under 20s/21s Div 1 level for their club in the same season. That means actually seeing game time, not just sitting on the bench. I realise numbers may not permit such a rule, but it should be enforced where possible to maintain the quality at the Under 20 level and below.

Reply #88134 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

3
this sounds ....





Like a load of shit

Reply #88135 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

3,

What happens to clubs like Centrals and Eastern that do not have enough players?

Reply #88137 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Or better still,

When clubs like West realise that the players that they do have are not good enough for Div 1.

Under your system they would be forced to play Div 1 and after getting their butt's kicked quit the sport!

anonomous,

You are talking about the current system. Any div 2 player can move clubs at any stage of the year. What you need to ask yorself is why don't they? The answer is simple, they choose not too. What actually happens is that they move to the clubs which put time and effort into their coaching staff. Perhaps your club could something like that?

What do you thinkn would be the result of forcing players to move clubs? Well other than them stopping from playing.

Again, stop thinking about your clubs best need and thinbk about the sport for once.

Reply #88145 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

3,
All your plan will do is force clubs like Eastern and Centrals (and West in younger girls age groups) to expose players to a standard they are not ready for. They will then get flogged, probably quit, then you have to bring up someone of even lower standard to replace them. That is a cycle that will decrease the standard of the comp, not increase it.
It also does nothing for the top teams in each group, who will get nothing out of flogging said teams.

I have to give credit where it's due - at least West don't expose their players to a standard which they are not ready for, just so they can say they have a div 1 team in each age group. Pity we can't say the same for some of the other clubs who expose some of their teams to regular beltings.

Reply #88177 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

88092 -

What 12 year old needs the pressure of 3 Clubs vying for their services? This will achieve nothing except an ego for the kid who is currently playing Div 2 and only good enough to play Div 1 at a sub-standard Club.

Basketball in this State is not big enough to deal with something like that and lets not forget - these are kids we are talking about. At this rate, we should be putting their basketball services on Ebay and they can go to the highest bidder!

Reply #88207 | Report this post


Michelle  
Years ago

a bit of dejuvu here? ........re post:http://www.hoops.com.au/sa/i.cfm/forumlist/6883/

*change*

Reply #88237 | Report this post




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