Maurice White
Years ago

Should ABL players be paid?

No.

Crowds don't support what players are getting paid.
How many people go watch the games that aren't related to players?

The quality of basketball isn't worth paying for. The only difference between ABL and social basketball is the national anthem, the crowds are the same.

Junior basketball fee's pay for average senior basketball players, this cripple's clubs. Clubs need to pay coaches before senior players. How many clubs would get better if their coaches were getting paid the same as ABL players?

All clubs should get together and say sorry but no more money for you. The saying goes 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys' well clubs are paying top dollar for their monkeys.

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Skyhook  
Years ago

Did you heat that Prince is getting divorced ?

I was bored too . lol

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Anonymous  
Years ago

um Yes. Without the players there would be no games. Most players playing ABL have played basketball from a young age, have paid their fee's etc so when they do reach ABL level they should get some form of payment - depending on their commitment and talent etc.

'The quality of basketball isn't worth paying for. The only difference between ABL and social basketball is the national anthem, the crowds are the same.'

WHATEVER!!! there are some very talented players in the ABL, and could prob be many more. The crowds are a lot dif to social games.
It cost $$$ to buy new shoes, petrol money, commitment away from work. But some are forced not to play because they cant afford it. So YES i think SOME ABL players should get paid at least something.

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Vanilla Ice  
Years ago

Vanilla Ice says Maurice White got his arse cut from div 3 and is angry cause his momma says that aint fair and he would start at any other club in the state.

Hey Maurice you may be white but you aint VANILLA!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I disagree.

Most players dont get paid anyway let alone "average" ones and if they do usually its a meager sum. It costs a lot more money than you would think to play at the ABA level. Most players pay for tape (very expensive and use a lot of it), petrol etc.

Players do not expect to be paid, however, it is more to do with getting reimbursed for these costs associated with playing as playing takes up a lot of time and energy.

"The only difference between ABL and social basketball is the national anthem, the crowds are the same."

That comment is laughable and obviously anybody who knows anything about basketball can tell you the differences in standard are very very large. Yes, the crowds are not huge at ABA level, but should ABA players be not paid because the competition does not have the exposure and marketing power to draw non basketball people to watch the games? I dont think so.

The product of ABA in my opinion, whilst not the best competition in Australia, is still very enjoyable and, if given more financing, advertising and marketing efforts (highly unlikely I know but we're talking hypotheticals) would be able to draw larger crowds and justify these "average players" getting paid small sums.

Furthermore, players do not expect to be paid to play. Most play because they love the game and getting paid or reimbursed any sum of money in most players case is a bonus and fully appreciated more than Maurice is suggesting.

If the competition is so average, and players do not deserve to get paid, then you Maurice should go out there and show us how to play and what level of performance justifies getting paid. Then we would be paying the real monkey his penuts...

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Maurice White  
Years ago

Skyhook, The Hoff wasn't allowed onto a plane at Heathrow because he was drunk(again).

You said

"Most players playing ABL have played basketball from a young age, have paid their fee's etc so when they do reach ABL level they should get some form of payment - depending on their commitment and talent etc.


Their parents paid for their shoes, fee's, travel etc... Do the players give their money to their parents like a hex debt?

Most basketball players have played from a young age and continue to play basketball at a social level, do they expect their shoes and fee's to be paid?

There would still be ABL if they didn't play players.

If the level of basketbal was good then people would go and watch.

It isn't and they don't.

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TytsMagee  
Years ago

Most players would still play if they were not paid. It does help with the costs of getting to trainings and shoes etc.

But im sure there are much more important things clubs could be doing with junior fees.

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Maurice White  
Years ago

Mr I Disagree,

Obviously you don't know what ABL players are getting paid for you to make hypothetical and unknowledgable comments.

What are the 'small sums' players are getting paid that you talk of???

Your comments don't make a lot of sense(other than me being a monkey)

Vanilla Ice, I'm trying to work this out.

Reply #90262 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

The better players on most ABL teams would get about $100 a week if they are lucky. The top players and imports a bit more, and the average players nothing to about $40. That is absolutely bugger all.
And the worst ABL player in this state could go and score 50 points in any social game they wanted to at will (and bust your ass in the process Maurice).
You idiot

Reply #90268 | Report this post


Hangin Round  
Years ago

Maurice White- Are you for serious or trying to stir some shit on a quiet Friday arvo.
Unfortunately most clubs simply do not have the money to reward ABA players for their time and commitment. When you compare the $$$ on offer to play amatuer or country football, it is disappointing that there is not more reimbursement

Reply #90269 | Report this post


x's and o's  
Years ago

Reply #90270 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I do know what players are getting paid, becuase I play and their is a salary cap which prevents teams spending over the threshold. I dont know of many average players that recieve payments for playing, but I know of several good players who dont recieve anything. It depends on which club you are looking at.

Clubs with their own stadium and canteen etc will naturally have more money and henceforth be able to pay more to their players while other clubs do not have this same financial backing and cannot pay all their players.

I would like to know where you have heard your dollar values from, and how much money you think is appropriate to play anybody...if anything at all.

"Small sums" of money are values such as a couple of hundred at the end of the season that some players receive. However, if you think about it, $1000 for an entire season for one player would amount to $45.45 a game.

Take into consideration approx 2 trainings a week over the season and preseason which for aruguments sake is 50 trainings per season. Factor in the cost of driving to and from stadiums around Adelaide, the cost of shoes, the cost of tape and this $1000 dollars doesn't seem to cover too much at all!

So out of this $1000 take out $200 for a pair of shoes (just one pair!) now $800, box of tape is a couple of hundred, now down to $600, then count the 72 trainings and games means the player is getting around $8.33 for every training and game! Which would cover the cost of petrol to and from training...

While we're at it, think about injuries, physio, massages, oils, tablets etc etc and this $1000 doesn't look like its covering too much at all!

I know that some players would get multiple thousands of dollars, but these are the top players who deserve to be reimbursed and also paid for their services towards winning games and enhancing the clubs reputation.

If anything, it would be good if all players got paid but the reality is that there just isnt the money to do it, but to suggest that nobody deserves to be paid, is an unfair and uneducated comment in my opinion.

Reply #90272 | Report this post


Maurice White  
Years ago

Cockstock,

The better players are luckier than you think, they get paid a lot more than those figures. They get well over $200 and some are twice that.

The scrubbers at the end of the bench at some clubs start at $50. And as you said they are 'average' players.

From your tone I would assume that you are a scrubber who isn't good enough to get legitimate playing time in ABL(even in a non finals team) but plays his little heart out in reserves. You struggle sleeping every night with the thought 'I'm not good enough to play on a shit team but If I play social I could play a whole game and average 13.5 pts a game'.

The worst players in the ABL are social players, like you putz.

Reply #90273 | Report this post


x's and o's  
Years ago

Maurice, your a dirt merchant.

The majority of ABA players aren't living in mum and dads pockets anymore.
This year the league has been VERY competitive and featured players of the ilk of Forman, Cooper, Smylie, Ng, Holmes, Hill .... all NBL quality. Then you have the Gerlachs, Madgens, Molitors, Scanlons that have posted massive numbers and are pushing the guys mentioned above.
There may not be 6'8 black fella raining down windmills on everyone but that doesnt make a great contest.
Another thing to consider is the VERY minimal money some of these guys get paid doesnt even scrath the surface of running costs ( Petrol, tape, shoes etc..) and god forbid they hurt themselves and spend the next 2-6 weeks getting regular physio treatment etc...

If i was a monkey, and i may be, i sure dont want to be called Maurice!

Reply #90274 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

heard a rumor that sturt may not be paying there ABA team as of next year. could this mean players leaving that club

Reply #90275 | Report this post


Maurice White  
Years ago

Perhaps all players should get a pair of shoes and their ankle tape paid for.

I believe players would still play if they weren't getting paid $250 a game.

Wouldn't clubs turnaround if $15,000 - $20,000 was being paid to their junior coaches?

You would get great coaches therefore better players.

Reply #90276 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Maurice White, I cant tell you very, very few current-non nbl players/squad members would be earning over $200 per game. How do I know? Because I pay them. You are just wrong and just trying to make trouble - get a life!

Reply #90277 | Report this post


90277  
Years ago

"cant " should be "can"

Reply #90278 | Report this post


Maurice White  
Years ago

WOW! X's and O's, F and U!

Six players in the ABL play NBL. Woop De Doo Doo. What a TOUGH league the ABL is!!! LOL

Massive numbers from Madgen, Gerlach, Scanlon your proving my point!! The league isn't very good therefore they shouldn't be paid.

Paying for travel costs?? It's not a job! they should be playing because they enjoy it and want to play for their club.

Is your Mum going to start wanting petrol allowance from the pub for playing their pokies?

Reply #90279 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Maurice mate, I tried to be reasonable and give an argument based in fact, but obviously you lack the understanding and ability to respond to rational arguments and must try and bring everything down to your pathetic level. Its a shame that players who post on here, regardless of ability, playing time etc, and give thier perspective get wankers like Maurice giving thier ill informed arguments and personal attacks on them.

Its actually laughable because everybody that knows anything about ABA knows that this guy knows just about nothing about basketball. Poor guy.

Reply #90280 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

There hasn't been a target on this forum like Maurice since John Lawrence advertised his forum. Line up forum users, this is going to be fun.

Reply #90281 | Report this post


Bo Hamburger  
Years ago

A conspiracy theory for you, thedoctor: has anyone conclusively proven that the two identities you mentioned are, in fact, "two" people? Could it be that they are just the one person instead? ;)

Reply #90286 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The only players who deserve to be paid are those players who recoup their costs by bringing people through the door, and putting bums on seats. The likes of Holmes, Ng, Cooper, Beatty, Woosnam, Hill and Hurst who do this deserve to be paid. They are entertainers and should be rewarded accordingly.

This doesn't mean that other players should play out of pocket, but whats wrong with the club finding a sponsor for players who they would like to reimburse money for petrol, tape etc for to cover those costs.....? Its not always that straight forward I know, however these things go a long way to supporting our athletes, and keeping them both motivated and involved in the sport.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree thedoctor.

While I actually agree that ABA players should not get paid unless their club is making money from running the competition, I will refrain from agruing until Maurice 'shut's the hell up'.

It should be simple. If the club makes money from ABA then the players should share in the spoils. That is after taking out the costs. ie court hire for trainings, uniforms, running the games. Otherwise junior are paying for them.

Sh$t, sorry for agreeing with Maurice.

Reply #90288 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

(#90287)

So therefore I guys that are on the bench that get their players they coach to come should be paid.

Reply #90292 | Report this post


TG  
Years ago

Maurice, I am sorry you were abused as a child. Clearly, the effects are still on display. If you want, I can meet you down Foot Locker and buy you a pair of shoes off the bargain table if you feel you should be getting paid for your c-grade social comp games???? What do you think? I'll even stop by Chem-plus and pickup a roll of ankle tape if it will make you happy??

The large figures you quote are either:
1. based on amounts from Eastern State leagues where there is more money involved and imports are common place, or
2. for a very select few who infact could argue the payment is earned for the exposure they bring to the club, which would include that exposure helping encourage juniors to keep playing the game.

All ABA players play for the love of the game. Any comment otherwise is absurd! Sacrificing so much time each week to be at trainings then games on the weekends, plus attending junior functions at times to help out where possible. The costs of petrol, tape, etc are expensive and any type of help is appreciated. Same goes for club footy, cricket, etc, etc.

Just stick to playing your NBA Live on the X-box chief, don't need losers like you out there spoiling our game....

Reply #90295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Let' not forget that in many cases ABL players also are involved with the coaching of junior players so by paying the player you are also paying the coaches

Reply #90296 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"The only players that should be paid are those that are putting bum's on seats, they ere the entertainers and sould be paid accordingly"

But who is going to ABL game's other than relatives?

Put junior fee's back into junior basketball. Seniors should get paid what comes thru the door on a game day.

Reply #90298 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

Bo, for all of John Lawrence's shortcomings, the guy is very passionate about basketball, and would never bag the ABA/ABL.

By the way, Kevin Pittsnoggle got signed by the Celtics today.

Reply #90303 | Report this post


90277  
Years ago

Maurice White, your argument is based on the false premise that guys like madgen, gerlach and scanlon are getting paid good money which is wrong. Unless you play for forestville or woodville (in the past) you are going to be playing for a pittance and only then if you are in the top 3 or 4 players.

Reply #90308 | Report this post


Why are people so UNKIND ??

Where's James Pennington or Bizzy when you need them ?

Reply #90321 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

all the costs for abl players well is the same for the junior they train twice a week travel same stadiums whoever started this thread has no idea - the abl players get paid if they are good enough because they are just that -good abl players - heck if they were better they be nba playing for mega bucks - they get paid because there is some money available good luck to those that do and thanks to those who play because they love the game

Reply #90325 | Report this post


ITA  
Years ago

Guys lets not be harsh, Maurice heard from this guy walking down rundle mall, that was friends with the local butcher, who knew the pet store owner, that sold the dog, the dog bred with the neighbours dog and was given to an anonymous ABL players friends mother. She said that all ABL players were getting 200 a game as Maurice said so it MUST be true. Plus he wrote it in his year seven assignment last week, and it got a B+... so it is FACT.

Secondly Maurice to answer another of your questions, I go to many ABL games as do many other people that are NOT related to players as you say, there are a few more people there than mummy and daddy watching.

Lastly what is a hex debt mate, is this your arrangement with mummy for her pokies fee as you suggest?

PS. the local redneck three doors down says you need to be "slapped upside the head".

Reply #90329 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

hex debt?? Is that money you have to pay for casting a spell?? I think you mean HECS...

Reply #90334 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Dear Maurice,

Please turn off the lights on the way out - no, sorry, the lights have been out for a long time.

What is wrong with the top level of the sport in the state being paid pocket money for playing sport? If you took what is being paid to all the ABA players at the moment and used it to pay the junior coaches, they would be lucky to get a Mars bar each.

I enjoy watching the ABA, with the best of the rest strutting their stuff against the occasional 36er or Lightning player.

Don't begrudge the ABA players because you have to coach the U10's for nothing.

Reply #90335 | Report this post


Paddy  
Years ago

Hell im a bench scrubber. Wish i got $50 per game...

Reply #90336 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Paddy, you're still way in front of our friend Maurice...

Reply #90337 | Report this post


Key Powder Vere  
Years ago

Isaac, Please ban ill informed idiots like maurice white from the forum

Reply #90344 | Report this post


The Awnser  
Years ago

If any abl players have ambitions to play college they cannot except a payment or they will not be able to play!!

Reply #90349 | Report this post


You people are too easy to get revved up. He's obviously not being serious. why don't we all relax and stop being so serious

Reply #90355 | Report this post


EC  
Years ago

The competition between clubs at ABL level is fierce. If clubs are paying players, its the clubs responsibility as they want to attract the best players. Paying them does this. Paying them also keeps players consistently playing week in and week out unless they are injured. This consistency in attendance also assists in consistent results for their teams. How easy would it be for players to say "oh I don't really feel like turning up for a game tonight, I would rather stay home and watch a movie in my nice warm lounge room or go out with my mates". What keeps people going to work? The fact that they are paid to go. Its the competitiveness of the sport that forces clubs to pay the players to get the results that they want. That's the reason why the better players are also paid more because they are needed the most and an enticement is needed for them. It doesn't matter whether people agree that they should be paid or not, this is determined by the clubs and how successful they want to be.

Reply #90357 | Report this post


The Awnser  
Years ago

i no for a fact that at some clubs they give "presents"to the players such as a laptop,shoes or something that may be of use to them! It does get around the fact that you are not paying them. South adelaide are in debt because they payed ronn Nunnley and are regretting it.Clubs just cant afford it!

Reply #90361 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

EC - the point is: they aren't doing it for the money.

Reply #90362 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

I think ABL players earn every cent they get, anyone complaining about SANFL players recieving payment, ABL is the same standard as SANFL, and in sports such as footy, some Country and Amature leaguue players get paid. Just because they are not all in the NBL or NBA deosnt mean they are bad players, guys like Dix and Vandenberg would be good enough to play NBL, so i think they deserve every cent they get, and at a guess they wouldnt recieve much anyway, especially comparing them to NBL, NBA and Europe leagues

Reply #90369 | Report this post


VC fan  
Years ago

I know U/17 footy players that get paid petrol money and you guys arecomplaining about the top players in the top league in the state getting paid??

Reply #90389 | Report this post


Northerner  
Years ago

Absolutely.

Tape, petrol, Div.2, training, pre-season, team building..

All these things add up, and whilst some of them may be attributed to the whole team, you don't want your players paying for the camp they go on in January to help with team spirit.

There is something about playing on a team where you don't have to worry about tape, you know there will be a box of it waiting for you at training, and you can grab a couple of rolls for the week.

If players are serious about their ball, they would be driving to games on the weekend, driving to training twice a week, some will be driving to play reserves on Tuesdays, and then probably driving to a gym once a week to work on their shot. That a lot of petrol, especially at these prices.

Maybe instead of saying "paid", why not subsidised? Give each player tape, negotiate a gym that they can go to on set days, provide them with a petrol allowance, maybe have a good end of season wind up that is paid for. The little things will help keep players at clubs over those that don't.

Could it be argued if your players are happy off the court, they will be happy on the court?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Physio, health insurance, supplements, gym etc.

Reply #90394 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It is not of question of whether they deserve to be paid - it is more the source of funds from which they are paid.

As an ex club Treasurer I know that about 1/3rd of junior fees used to go to pay senior costs (not just players but court hire etc etc).

Other sports (eg rugby)have restructured into two separte clubs - one for juniors and another for seniors and each has to stand on its own.

I think this is a fairier approach and if the better ABL players can bring sponsorship and gate takings then only fair they share in these spoils BUT it is not fair that juniors pay for seniors to play!!!

Reply #90396 | Report this post


Mott the Hoople  
Years ago

Brad, South are one of three clubs not in debt.

Reply #90397 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I wouldn't go to ABL games if the better known players were not suiting. I suspect that NBL players (Cooper, Forman, Holmes, etc) would play in NZ if there was no money in the ABL here.

I have long said that more should be done to promote the ABL and get people to games so that senior teams can do more to be self-sufficient.

In my opinion, ABL players should be paid, but where possible they should not be funded by junior programs - maybe that's a bit of an unachievable situation in Adelaide, but I don't think enough has been tried for the community to stand back and say that it's impossible.

Reply #90404 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There is hardly any money in it anyway. When Forestville, probably the leagues richest club is only paying 6, thats right only six of their ABL players, that hardly make a dent into their juniors fees, considering how much is earnt at their bar on saturday night home games and canteen. In my opinion, more players should be getting paid. I'm talking guys like Cambell, Haydon Wood all earning nothing. If these guys are not getting paid then i'm sure that the bench plyers on other teams arn't either so I doubt that as a whole, much money is spent on paying ABL players at all.

Reply #90405 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#90405

O.k. only six are paid but who pays for court hire for training sessions and other costs of senior program such as registration fees etc etc? When these are considered I think you will find there IS a serious dent in the junior fees.

Reply #90407 | Report this post


Uncle Chop Chop  
Years ago

If i ever find out who Maurice White is i am going to punch him in the head. That's if i can reach that low!!!

Honestly, what a low life.

I am stunned it took 3/4 of this thread for someone to mention the cost of Health Insurance.

If we take the example of an average player getting paid $1000 for a season. To strengthen the argument lets double it to $2000.

Now deduct the following estimated costs that players encounter:

Petrol ($60 / month)
Health Insurance ($60 / month)
Gym Membership ($75 / month)
Shoes ($250 / year)

Over the course of the December (pre-season) to August ABL season thats 9 months.

Total cost = $2005.00

Now consider the cost of tape, the occasional physio visit, reserves games. Factor the loss of other oppurtunity or income due to committing around 10 hours a week to a sport.

At the end of the day, i take my hat off to those who commit themselves to basketball at ABL level. We all should.

Reply #90409 | Report this post


The Awnser  
Years ago

mott the hoople,I no as a fact they are in debt,my mum was treasurer for years at that club and for some stupid reason the bank keeps on sending her letters from the bank regarding there finances.stuffed up there mate

Reply #90414 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"The Answer"if your mother is still getting our statements you would be able to confirm that South Adelaide according to their bank statements have in fact got a reasonable amount of money in them. South Adelaide is not in debt and to say so is a blatant lie. Your mother was treasurer when they got out of debt.We have not got back into to debt.For a 17yr old you have a lot to say on something that you know nothing about except for hearsay.

Reply #90418 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

People are not saying that it doesn't costs people to play ABA. What is being said is that the cost is being put onto junior fee's to pay them which is unsustainable.

Why do people think that clubs like Centrals and Eastern are struggling financially? Why are Southern and other clubs in debt? Why do Norwood put so much effort into their carnival?

Easy, it is because of their senior costs. The salary cap is $25k, court hire is $30 per hour for training, at least. Or about $90 per week or about $5000 per year per team. Uniforms which last 2 seasons are about $1000 per year, coaches get paid as well about $5000 per year. So for an average club you are looking at over $40K per year. Forestville would obviously be much higher due to their rorting the Salary cap.

There is no way that senior make this much money. And sponsors would not be paying for just senior teams. Senior teams bring about 200 people into a stadium each week. Junior bring about 1000. Which is more value.

Look at what running a team that losses money like the 36ers did to basketball in this state. And the same thing is happening to some clubs because it is easy to buy a Championship in Seniors. And clubs think that the glory of an ABA Championship will bring them stacks of kids.

Never going to happen. I hope clubs continue to pay their senior teams and run their clubs into the ground.

Reply #90431 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Uncle Chop Chop

Most of those costs also apply to Juniors players and/or their families. Tell me why they should pay their costs and those of the senior players as well!!!

ps I am not Mr White either!!!

Reply #90438 | Report this post


aussie  
Years ago

"my mum was treasurer for years at that club and for some stupid reason the bank keeps on sending her letters from the bank regarding there finances.stuffed up there mate"
Well if she was the treasurer and no longer is then why is she openeing these letters when clearly she is not meant to.

Reply #90449 | Report this post


Maurice White  
Years ago

Uncle Chop Chop,

How much does it cost families to support your air balls?

Well lets see, approximately with 2 kids playing it might average:

Fee's x 2 = $500.00 p.a

Uniforms x 2 = $100.00 p.a

Entry x 2 = $ 300.00 p.a

Petrol $720.00 p.a

Shoes x 2 $300 p.a

Carnival costs $500 p.a

Total approx $2,500.00

Uncle Chop Chop no one comes to watch you play!

Why should I pay for you to go to a gym or pay for your health insurance?

Already my taxes pay for your frequent trips to Glenside.

What's this B/S about loss of opportunity & income? You play basketball because you enjoy it, its sport, its supposed to be fun. Basketball doesn't owe you anything. Your best memories are from playing and enjoying the friends you've made along the way - try and put a price on that.

Reply #90526 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There is a easy answer.
Clubs pay training costs, thats fair.
ABA teams get paid all "profit" from door sales and all ABA sponsorship they raise.
NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS
If they do not want to get sponsorship, they do not get paid, if they do not attract crowds, they do not get paid
.....easy
and the clubs could lower junior fees by 20%

Reply #90597 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

OK........5%

Reply #90598 | Report this post




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