Eagles have huge numbers

There are HUGE numbers across the board

don't be greedy. send some out to Central!

they wouldn't want to travel the distance

now for the COACHES for all these kids

Has there ever been a better reason to zone.

That would only send some of these kids to Sturt, we dont want that happening either do we?

These lists also include their CIty South Teams - not all will be in a District Team

see 52 in u16 G and 25 in u10 G

10 coaches alone for these 2 groups req

Yes, lets zone, lets punish Forestville for working hard to get these numbers out to their club.

Haha no wonder some of the clubs are stuck in the mire - don't work hard to generate players, just moan about those that do.

Good work Forestville. Now find the coaches!!

what about their younger boys teams - many there?

With BSA heading towards an Elite Competition of Div 1 & 2 most of these kids wont be playing District anyway.

Enough of the BS about Forestville working hard,kids just want to go to where they believe the best chances exist for advancement.No argument about that but the continual reference to hard work as the key is crap.
Forestville have an ex forestville and country man selecting for the AIS and country state coaches in place coaching district and this connection helps their recruitment enormously.
Sturt and Forestville also have the facilities that no other clubs have in 3 or 4 court facilities, a canteen and a bar revenue stream all handed to them on a plate.
When BASA died and all its promises with it BSA needed to make sure the new arrangements for all the founding clubs were equal which it did not. Some clubs remain behind the 8 ball becase of pre-existing arrangements with BASA which are now extinct.
All history now, but lets get one thing straight every club from the smallest to the largest works hard but not every club has the same revenue stream or access to courts that some clubs do.

sturt had it handed to them when their stadium burnt down. and then when their court had to be replaced. sure.

and its not like forestville dont run a domestic competition too. do othe clubs?

Sorry mate (#202405)but that is plain C R A P !!!

All clubs work hard? No they dont. I can attest to the lazy inactive way some clubs go about improving their kids; my kids came from one of those so called "hard working little clubs"

Some clubs are happy to sit on their hands and cry their eyes out about the bigger clubs; some actually do something about it, alas not many.

Its one thing for a club to get on here constantly and say "look at what we are going to do" it is another thing to actually get on with the job of developing a stable, rewarding junior program.

Not every thing in life is equall. Some clubs do actually work a lot harder than others.

"Enough of the BS about Forestville working hard,

They do work hard - they have a full time coaching director, plus Dave Laurie I still think does some work around the place. As for revenue, haven't they helped themselves there with their own domestic comp, one? That take a TON of work to initiate, to generate enough players and officials to be involved I'd have thought. Then re-invest any money from this in their junior program. Would not be easy at all, certainly not as easy as...say..whinging about zoning.

Sturt and Forestville also have the facilities that no other clubs have in 3 or 4 court facilities, a canteen and a bar revenue stream all handed to them on a plate.

Centrals? Southern? West's bar is top notch. Plus you bring Sturt into this? Glad you did - their stadium burnt down and they didn't have ANY stadium for a year or two (if not longer?), then the floor had to be ripped up at Pasadena so they had no home again for another year. But hey, they've had it handed to them on a plate....

every club from the smallest to the largest works hard

Some work harder to make things happen. Others whinge about the results achieved because of that hard work. Which type are you? Not a tough question.

Also, 3 or 4 courts, which is it?

You really dont know do you?

Ok, so Forestville have potentially enough U 16 girls for five divisions. And quite possibly Sturt will be able to match that. But what is the point of so many divisions if there is no competition. Most of the other clubs will be lucky to run 2/3 divisions at this level.

You will not even get looked at at Div 3 and below, and struggle to get coaches.
Yes work hard and reap the benefits but at what cost. Should F/Ville and Sturt say...sorry we have enough girls, the revenue is good but is it fair play and honest.
Some of these girls will never get developed. At what point does a club become honest and have the integrity to advise no place available.
This will possible have a benefit for other clubs where numbers are low.
Perhaps zoning will be inevitable.

If Forestville works so hard, has good coaches and others are lazy can you explain the following results for winter - pre finals

Grade Boys Girls

10/1 9 1
10/2 3 3
12/1 6 2
12/2 7 1
14/1 6 1
14/2 8 2
16/1 5 3
16/2 4 1
18/1 2 1
18/2 3 2

Either their left hand doesn't know what their right hand is doing or perhaps results are not just about how ggod city/south is or how good coaches and facilities are but perhaps how well a team performs is dictated by the talent you attract or poach or recruit.

I still contend that it is the calibre of player you attain and retain. This is why clubs need to work hardest on setting the environment to get the best possible players - but it appears that even F/ville can't do it from the boys side

This is the point of having low-cost domestic competitions (like Sturt and Forestville's City South).

Lower division players will not be serviced as well as their higher division counterparts, not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is when volunteer organisations have limited resources, such as skilled coaches for example.

Also these players will not travel en masse to the Starplex for example.

So the cheapest, most cost effective option is Domestic basketball. This is why Melbourne is booming, it leads the country in providing this sort of service.

What is BA doing to help develop young coaches to fill these gaps?

... and yet you won't hear anyone at Forestville sook about it and go the easy option ie want zoning.

This thread was about the number of players they have. YOU are the only person equating "hard work" with div 1 "success" - and as you apparently equate hard work/success with U10 + U12 positioning suggests your preference for a div 1 title over fundaments/skill development anyway so I'm hoping you are not involved at my club! They have their own domestic comp and a large number of players who want to play for them - something they should be congratulated for rather than sniped at because they actually are willing to put in the hard yards. These players are attracted by something, perhaps by a club that has made a commitment to junior development - instead of sitting back and demanding players be given to them.

But even their junior development model is failing on the boys side!

How so?

Because they didn't win U10 div 1?

#460,

Look at 12's 14's and 16's. With the exception of 16's which are just in the finals the others are in the bottom half of the competition. On average, if you are not better or no worse than other clubs you would expect to average around 5

Oh, so it's because the U12s aren't winning div 1 titles....

If you watch the U12 competition you'll find that Forestville are one of the few clubs that lay the foundations for FUTURE success - other clubs show short-sightedness with gimmicks that work in 12s that won't in future years (zones, traps). The fact that they show such vision over other clubs is a positive reflection on their junior development model in my opinion, not a blight.

Perhaps you should actually go watch the teams play and the systems they are putting in place instead of determining who "works hard" by looking at premiership ladders!!

#478,

I do get out and see many different clubs. In fact I am impressed with the small steps forward that clubs like Woodville and Southern seem to be making at the younger age groups. Now to address your points.

1. If this foundation is so good why the different achievements between the boys and girls programmes
2. Didn't think zones were allowed at that age group.
3. These foundations in U12s are for results in what age group - U18's??

The results in the boys programme is abysmal for a club of this size and standing. Obviously they get it right on the girls side - why not the boys??

Maybe Forestville simply don't have the talent?? But don't you dare for one moment question the work effort of their coaches and the development that they are willing to put into the younger age groups and the lower divisions.

When a highly qualified coach asks to take probably one of the least developed teams in the club, that speaks volumes about how much effort their coaches are willing to put in.

Then when a player who comes back from college in America offers their services to a div 3 team.

So please don't through stones in glass houses. You make yourself look like a tool.

Congratulations to one of those small clubs that will win the u/10 div 2 girls title. But I wonder how many of their girls will actually know how to play proper defence in a couple of years. Probably not many.

skyhooked,

Hooray - you have finally acknowledged what i have been trying to say at # 428 above. Coaches and systems will bring the best out of individuals but you must have some talent with which to work. Turning the argument around I am annoyed that the big clubs continue to bag the smaller clubs due to an apparent lack of effort.

Sure more can always be done but you must have some talent coming through the doors with which to work. It is so frustrating to see better players with whom you can work move on.

I repeat - not having a go at the F/ville coaches just using that as an example that despite access to good coaching and facilities you need players.

players are constantly moving to forestville under the pretence 'that they're a better club' not realising that all clubs face the same admin problems and BS from parents/coaches etc. some clubs just handle it differently to others.

i have also noticed that forestville tends to be one of the rougher clubs in general in the comp...they dont teach defence they teach attack...attack the player knock em down...if they dont get back up then its one less to worry about it...heck one team actually yelled attack one day then proceeded to kick our girl who was on the floor with the ball... great game play there.

I have watched forestville u12 boys and they have gone backwards. They struggle fundamentally and have no offensive structure at all. If you listen to this hype, about forestville being so great its generally a claim made by forestville people with out the results to back. If there is one thing they are good at its self proclaimed hype. There are no U12 boys teams playing full court zones, and if you think there are you do not have a clue about basketball.

I see this grade every week.

So said u12 boys program have now recruited a current div 1 coach from South to sort that program out.
Jeez South cant catch a break.Know for a fact South was wanting to reappoint him.

Darryl Crump????

Sorry ...ex southern/Noarlunga jdc

They do really well when they are able to make the draw suit them like the U14 Boys did at State Champs.

Hopefully Forestville don't follow the same path as another inner city team and actually have enough decent coaches to develop these junior players.

I know of one team who got a dodgey coach and the net result of their season for the nine players was two quit during the season, two have tried out at another club and another has given it away. Such a shame for a team at the 'elite' level.

For the players sack I hope Forestville have determined their coaching capacity and recruited to that level otherwise the last parent to step back will be recruited into the coaching regime.

Forestville don't have any stars in their 16's 1 boys team.

Anon, 202516

In what capacity do you see this age group week in, week out?
From what I observe there are quite a number of short sighted teams who press continually and while it may get results at this early age, it sets no foundations for development at later stages.
Looking at this Forestville team, I believe around half of these players are still 1st year Under 12's (may be corrected), sets them up ok for next season perhaps.
If one had any idea about the game, which you clearly don't, you would see this quite clearly - but dont worry, continue to see the game through smoke covered glasses you tool!

Steve,

I hear what you say but:

Can you tell me what age group they are planning for - results up to and incl U16 are poor for a club of this standing and;

Why do the girls do better - do they press or is there another reason

Zoning does occur in U12. Sturt are always using a 2:2:1 zone whenever we play them. They are predictable.

Steve sounds like you are a part of the eagles self professed hype. If you are struggling to win games tell the parents that your losing formula puts you in great stead for the future and give your self a pat on the back. For your information Steve I was there a in 2001-2003 and the same crap was told back then. Good to see all the eagles age groups now in U20, U18, U16, U14 are beating the world and making all those awful zone playing U10, 12 teams look so average.
When I was in Melbourne in June, those Victorian teams play zone in their younger age groups. Good to see that has hampered their progress, imagine how strong they would really be!!!

But anyway Steve never let results get in the way of ego.

....Forestville also unable to use their stadium for 4 weeks of the year; does that also qualify as "being handed to them on a plate"

omg only 4 weeks - pass me the kleenex

What an interesting topic this has become. MMM it reads either as a tall poppy syndrome or all of the other clubs that you people are from are going so fantastically well that the Eagles are the only club with faults.

To Twigs, way to judge a whole club on one girl that kicked another, that is just such deep thinking.

To anon 202575 I'd like to know what the self professed hype is all about? As far as I know they are working just as hard as any other of the big clubs to continually improve in all areas. Or is that just another way to through crap at a club. So you were there for 3 years, how many other clubs have you been at.... let me guess they all have there faults, funny thing that when we mere humans get involved in things.

The day Forestville put the priority of winning first in 10's, 12's and even 14's, is the day they will sell their soul.
People who want this at these age groups should go up the road.

???

what is different between the boys and girls programme then. Seems the girls can do both!

Yes, if you get it right you can do both. However, if you're talent level isn't great then the priority has to be improving that talent level first, worry about the win second. Maybe that's where they are at on the boys side?

???, So all those battles with sturt for U 14 G supremecy were imagined?

???,
You fire up at ridiculous claims about your club on here, and rightly defend them, and in the same post throw uneducated insults at another?

Hypocrite much?

???

you might be right - the problem is that they have 8 years of age groups U10 - U16s where they havent improved the talent level to be at least average with others. Except for U16 1/2 where they have crept into the finals all their lower age group Div 1/2's languish outside of the finals. I presume the U 16's next season will be a power house as all the development of those in U 14's come to fruition.

So I guess it must be Forestville's turn to cop flak from left, right and centre. Centrals and Norwood must be pleased. Can someone tell me who is next so I can get in early?

BTW, wasn't this thread about the numbers of U14 girls at Forestville? Yes 53 is a huge number for girls at that age.

All clubs go thru fluctuations in talent levels and results. If the Eagles start consistently missing finals across the board, then alarms should be raised, but while the major structure stays solid and results are round about the mark, I wouldnt be too worried. If results are the same in 12mths time, lets deeper for reasons.

As for how the girls are outperforming the boys ... well, they have been doing that for the last 18mths to 2yrs !! Its not a sudden phenomenon ... I have no insight on why, isnt it possibly just one of the aformentioned fluctuations ?!

the fluctuations seem to be at least an 8 year cycle??

The same issues come up all the time.

Former Eagles man at the AIS picking Eagles players for elite training.

Former SAC coach at the club.

Current SAC & SASI coach at the club.

The club has a bar & canteen that they are willing to actually open more times than not.

The club has one of the newer stadiums in the comp, which has a leaky roof.

The club has kids bursting from its seams wanting to play for it & being turned away.

The club pays a full time Bball manager to oversee development.

Yeah...shame on you Forestville, shame, shame, shame.

and the point is pink??

You said it pink - shame!
Any club that has all SASI or State players in a team, shouldn't ethically accept more SASI players into that team from other clubs who have developed them.
You accepted two SASI players from north last season and one from wests for this coming season all into the same team so you can't expect to escape criticism.
As this thread touches on development its clear your club pays only lip service to it.
About time there was a restriction on how many SASI players each team is allowed.

Tissue 744?

now i understand the difference in the development programmes between girls and boys. Silly me. Girls recruiting oops i mean developing is much better than on the boys side.

#202578 Forestville actually don't have their home court for about 6 weeks and although it does not sound like that it's during the lead up and also during finals! You try having to have all your finals games as away games, especially when you've earned home finals.

Also You can't say that Coach's are be be all and end all of basketball it also falls to the players to practice away from club practise. Some clubs are lucky enough to have a lot of players who are that passionate about the game, and others don't have as many, thats just the way it goes.

for the record tho Zoning is stupid because at the moment many players move clubs to be able to play with their friends, or move because of club politics. I know politics everywhere are the same but from time to time a fresh start is needed.

it wasn't one girl it was the whole team...they didn't even worry about the ball...great team tactics...5 girls against 1 who was on the floor. and thats not the only time, thats just an example. I've been playing district ball for the past 7 years...i know what its like out there

769,

There is no notion of home courts in finals. Our team finished top and do not play one game at home - in fact the team they are likely to play in the GF will be played at their home stadium.

Zoning works in football - how many friends going to the same school actually play for different clubs. It happens and thems the breaks. Next you will tell me it is not fair someone being born on 31 December.

Finally i guess you are saying the F/ville girls or committed to improving outside club contact time while the boys aren't

#769

As stated above, no team 'earns' home finals - this is not how district ball works.

However it would be an inconvenience for those teams who usually train at Wayville to have to go elsewhere. Hardly a massive issue though.

(#202744) and why are they all coming do you think?

I bet your club would directly benifit from still sitting on their hands but being able to snag some sasi squad players, wouldnt they?

pink,
My guesses would be, firstly they are coming because even ordinary players can climb the stairway to heaven with god being an ex forestville man and secondly promises of ABL minutes.
What do the players who have been and are going to be replaced think of your development of players?

Last time you said God was a Sturt man anon. You gotta get your story straight.....then I'll look for it in the Fiction section.

And if they were ordinary players, they wouldn't win right?

(#202817)How many different ways do you want it?

If a new player comes to the club and takes an existing players spot then the player who is bumped has two choices.

1) play in a lower division

2) move clubs to find someone who will let you continue to play div 1.

Isnt the "move option" what most people on here are saying should happen in the 1st place?

Ordinary players? Did you see the Gems play last time they came to town? Tell me how many "ordinary forestville players" made up that team!

If your kid is good enough it wont be a problem - if your kid gets bumped a division then someone, other than you thinks they are not up to the grade.

You may be interested to know that my kid will come under pressure from the new influx next season. We have a plan B. I suggest you get one too.

what is your plan B Pink - netball or footy?

I dont think you have what it takes for a plan B anon in as much it would take a little bit more of a back bone than moaning to your coach; welcome to the real world.

Protect little johnny snot nose or sally itchy ass as long as you can; fight their fights; whine to their coaches.

One day they will have to stand on their own two feet without mummy and daddy wearing out coaches with your high pitched moaning.

I have never read so much crap in all my life. No wonder SA ball is f........ Bout time some of u so called experts grew up. My advice to kids that want to develop their individual ability and not their coaches - play another sport.

like your boy's program you are a joke pink

Pink, they played NZ, a lot of U16's would beat them.

Pink, they played NZ, a lot of U16's would beat them.
Plan B is buy the right people drinks in your bar and
as for kids standing on their own two feet, cant think of one set of parents in your club that allows that.

Anon you are full of it. How's your club going. They must have it all together, but let me guess it's easier to make up fantasy stories about another club than actually speak about your own. Wow, deep down you mustn't be to happy with your own club, would that be gealousy I sense.

Try enjoying your own club and save the crap, it's boof heads like you that bring down a sport that is already on its knees. It's people like you that the AFL and the A league treasure. Grow up.

Yeah, I can hear the tears from here, but none of you anons can tell me how many "ordinary forestville players" made up that team!

Can you get your collective IQ's around that little task?

"buy the right people drinks in your bar" - oh thats right, its the eagles fault for having a bar that they actually OPEN and use. Anyway, the drinks worked the 1st time around, always an option!

Missed you at the local Mensa meeting Pink. Wonder why??

(Mod: Sniping at an U18 player?)