Poaching at all time high

So, you've seen every club poach players? If so, why not report it?

if poaching is allowed to continue then they will be extinct

Perhaps a method of restricting transfers needs to be looked at.

I'm sure there are lots of what if's but maybe something along these lines:

1. Transfer requested due to issues at Club - Must require approval and can only transfer to clubs in the proximity of the club you are transferring from eg Centrals can not go to Sturt or South but say West and North.

2. If you wish to select the club you want to transfer too you must play at a lower Division for 2 years

3. Special rules for families relocating but once again must be club in the "area". (I wonder how many addresses will be made up)

etc - allow transfers but make it onerous

All rumors and no facts once again.

Example

One club offered a ferrari and a white picket fence in front of my new property they were prepared to give me.

You are so naive Sturty - been there done that. Comment , sorry threat, was this is between you and I - you don't want your child to miss out on xyz do you.

Tell me - is it worth the risk reporting it?

For what it's worth we all know its happening and we all know its sanctioned as long as its discrete.
Until clubs have equal representation at sasi and state roles distributed more evenly, clubs that enjoy a monopoly of these coaches will attract claims of poaching because so many kids are moving to them.
No one will put their name forward because that ends their child's basketball hopes forever.
Mr Gliddon needs to ensure coaches from each district club are represented and benefit from his leadership and skills rather than to have so many of them in so few clubs.

I agree completely with you 781. What we need is a plan to improve the general level of coaching. Good coaches perhaps mentoring young coaches even if at another club. I know there is interest from some people to become and improve as coaches but there is no pathway for this to happen. It is too haphazard.

One club's "poaching" (or "raid") is another club's "acquisition"!

If you're gonna start threads about this topic, why dont you offer up some real and logical solutions. Personally, I dont have any ideas, so I normally dont comment - but it just seems these threads on poaching just end up being an endless bitch session with no real solutions, or the solutions are as wishy-washy as the poaching rules, so really solve nothing.

You might as well start a thread with "Hey, arent petrol prices high? I remember when petrol was cheap. Maybe we could steal petrol or make our own "

If there is a Ferrari are involved I know who is gonna get a lot of fingers pointed his way....(all of you conspiracy theorists don't be surprised if this thread and/or post is deleted)

Or it might just be deleted for bad grammar.

Anon 202775, Naive no. All I am saying is you have listed a few things that you know have gone on. They all couldn't of happened to your son/daughter so if you know something report it. If BSA hands out punishment for these sort of actions then it might stop it. Otherwise it will just go on and on.

Sturty, Give an honest response on whether you think a parent reporting poaching attempts would be advancing their kids cause with either club or SASI?
Its just one person's word against anothers in the main so its a useless rule.
Introducing a no SASI player transfer would be better.

I can't see why the city and country areas aren't zoned just as they are in footy. Seems to work for them and then this whole issue would be gone. Wouldn't be too hard to administer - especially with a bit of advice from somebody in SANFL.

Oh, no, of course, that involves some change for the better which BSA are very anti!!!

Yeah, BSA are anti-change for the better....

Perhaps your idea is just rubbish?

Great, another poaching topic based on hearsay. Remember the last one? Did you check in on that to see how the parent of the player in question emailed me, denied the stories mentioned and implied that they'd left the club for good reason.

A club offering a player a HS academic scholarship at an elite college.
A club employing a players mother in an admin capacity and offering their children free fees to play.
A Coaching Director becoming friendly with random parents of tall kids at certain clubs when they see them at stadiums.
A club telling a young player that their best chance to play college basketball would be at their club.
A club offering free uniforms and $25 fees for a country based player to transfer.

sorry sturty i am not the anon who started this topic - a different person

I'm sure no club would be offering scholarships at elite HS colleges - these come to the tune of around $15K - I don't think so Tim.

I think you will find they may provide assistance in applying for part scholarships. Its something like that anyway. I know of some country kids have gone down that path.

Isaac,

We can agree to disagree - it depends for what the purpose of networking. Why only network with tall kid's parents.

Is poaching illegal? Where is the rule? There is a fine for a SASI scholarship holder moving to the club with the state coach in that age group, but the clearance is still processed. So why report poaching if it is legal? Isn't the Ferrari a legitimate recruitment incentive in the U12s?

If there are any of those academic scholarships going around, clubs are spending more on their U16 teams than they are on their ABA teams. Wait until the ABA teams find out.

Isaac, Im not sure that what you call 'smart networking' is any different to grooming a kid for your club, is it?

If your kid got the chance to move club to improve skills and become a better player you would do it. Most players move club because they aint happy where they are. most people come up with this stupid stuff because there kids have just made it in a div 1 side, then all of a sudden a player comes from another club, 10 times better and they get shitty because their kid is now playin div 2. Do you think micheal jordan parents spat chips when he got cut from his high school side. no he trained harder so he was good enough to make the side.

Cowboyslimdusty... goodness I havnt had such a good laugh in a long time; district teams offering scholarships to elite colleges? Baaaahahahahahahahaha!

And then scooby backs it up with "Its something like that anyway. I know of some country kids have gone down that path" Bahahahahahahaha! You two are up there with the greats; The two ronnies, Morcam & Wise, Jerry Lewis & Dean Martin.

Ask any country parent who has a child boarding at a college in Adelaide and you will find nearly all of them have applied for some sort of assistance or scholarship. Why? because its BLOODY EXPENSIVE.

As for the "back in my day it was all about playing for fun and learning the game" comment, I have heard a number of parents say that they are sick of hearing the "just have fun" comments from others. The fact is if you want your kids to just go out and have fun, stick them in a social comp or run them in div 3 or 4; if you are fair dinkum about your bball, put your hand up for div 1 or 2, sit down, hold on and get ready for the ride.

The meek will whine; the true leaders will shine.

#812, can you spell development. A kid in div 1 could reasonably expect to be developed provided they are prepared to put in the hard work. Recruiting over the top of them sends mixed messages.
I'd suggest your idea that most would move if they go the chance to improve their skills and become a better player is not true otherwise centrals , southern , mavericks etc would be chocker block.
Any kid will improve playing div 1 against better opposition and with adequate coaching but most kids stay in div 2 hoping for a break, some in div2/2.
If clubs had basketball at heart they'd shunt fring div 1/2 kids to any of the clubs that could accommodate their talent and thus develop more kids for the game.

Sorry to hear the boarding college is expensive but good to know you're subsidised with scholaships.

Networking, 'grooming' a parent or whatever - it's not poaching by definition and is too subjective to police.

If the parent isn't interested in moving their child, they can not initiate any conversation on that topic. Or they can simply not shift their kid.

What else are you going to do? Forbid socialising between clubs?

I wonder how much of this "move your kid to Club Z to increase their chances of making such and such a team" is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. They might've made that team anyway had they stayed put. Now, because they moved, and xx% of the team is from Club Z, it looks like it's a crucial move in order to succeed.

if you want to retain good coaches then get rid of parents who meddle in the team. If your kid is good he or she will get court time. If parents spent as much time helping there kids to practice rather than bully the coach. then the coach would stay. What say ye!!

What about kids that just want to move club because they aint happy where they are? If a kid isnt happy where they are then they wont want to play. How many players end up making a life out of basketball. How many players keep playing past U20's. Just let them have fun and keep them active.

anon #212819,

Just plain wrong!

A player is incapable of developing an intricate skill DURING a game. That is common skill aquisition principle.

Otherwise why would we practice at all? And why would coaches be necessary at either?

A couple of suggestions from afar.

My local association has a 'no transfer' rule - completely stuffs the comp because some coaches are better at player development than others. End up with 80% of the rep team in one team 'organically'. Doesn't work.

But... was implemented in response to abuse of 'open slather' rule where kids became mates in rep (read State teams for your situation) teams and naturally (they are kids after all) wanted to play with the kids they spend a lot of time with. Doesn't work.

Obviously the 'no poaching' rule doesn't seem to be working in SA.

Don't be too quick to write off the possibility of school scholarships. Should I be so inclined my daughter would have no trouble getting a boarding scholarship in Sydney based on her contribution to the school - the club getting her would simply be a bonus but the suggestion has been made by the club. Not poaching by your definitions but the effect is the same.

Don't think there is a perfect system (particularly one that is enforceable - it'd be great if triathlons were draft-free but how do you enforce it - so it becomes a runner's race) so perhaps the answer lies in improving coaching standards.

What is the driver for most families? The best deal for their kids - improvement, environment, playing time, representative honours, social environment, coaching - probably all in the mix to varying degrees depending on the family. Get that mix right and you'll hang on to kids (at least the kids that you want!?!).

If you are worried about poaching - fix your club!

To the original poster - I know that one of your claims is true, it also indicates to me which club you are from. Were you told confidentially and have you broken that trust - yes. Is it poaching - no, I dont think so. Are you bitter because your kid will miss a spot for the new player coming in - yes. All things apparently are not equal, if your kid misses out it is because she perhaps is not ready for the grade that you wish her to be in.

Stats room, I said improve playing against div1 kids not develop better skills during the game.

Hahahaha.

Aren't they the same thing?

"Anon", you seem to know of a particular incident at a particular club. Are you willing to share with us?

This thread and another have had a lot of hearsay thrown up.

(#202820)"nearly all apply" is very different to "all get" anon!

Just pointing out that applying for full or part scholarships at "elite colleges" is happening every year by people from all walks of life.

No mystery; nothing underhanded, just plain fact.

The original poster probably subscribes to the theory that man never walked on the moon as well.

#202827 - Probably the most sensible thing I have read on this site in ages.

"....get rid of parents who meddle in the team..." best suggestion ever!

"...If your kid is good he or she will get court time....." absolutely the truth!

"....If parents spent as much time helping their kids to practice...." ... when you are whinging you are teaching your kids to whinge ... spend some time with your kid, it's actually good fun!

People who whinge about poaching are choosing to ignore the real causes for players leaving clubs.

"A club offering a player a HS academic scholarship at an elite college."
I wouldn't call the college in question elite

Its easy,
take the parents ambitions for their child out of 99% of these player movements, you would find most of the kids are happy, enjoy their game and their friends.

Imporve the standard of service at some clubs and they wouldn't have so many players leave.

Anon781 and 784,

Regarding SASI representation at all clubs.
All coaches from all clubs have the same pathways.
Some chose to put the time in some don't.

To haphazard?
If phoning Neil and asking to help is too hard or too haphazard, I ask you how could it be simpler.

784 If you know someone who is inerested in developing as a coach then get them to identify themselves. The players get letters asking them to join SASI, not coaches.

The reason some clubs are over represented at SASI is they have a larger pool of longer serving coaches with higher coaching aspirations.

I agree 067. As much grief as NG gets, I asked him for help, he sent me info via email. I asked him to clarify the info and he agreed to meet with me and we talked for about an hour. Not only did he discuss what SASI and current state teams are doing, he also printed a heap of notes for me to take home.

Am I interested in SASI, not at the moment due to work and family commitments, but if you are interested, stick your hand up and see what happens.

067 - #784 here.

I have started coaching this year and wish to improve. I have tried to do my level 1 coaches course and it has been cancelled for the last two times. I am frustrated at this and also the bagging we at lesser clubs get when some of us actually want to improve. The pathway to improvement shouldn't be so difficult in respect of finding the pathway.

I'm no where near a SASI level coach but I just want to improve and see where that ends up. I am not shying away from the hardwork - It is getting onto the path which is the problem.

Thanks for the advice i will keep plugging away.

#067
The test of a truly professional organization is that processes are in place that are inclusive and publicly promoted. I have no doubt what your saying may occur but it would be significantly more successful if all clubs were invited to submit names for consideration as part of a structured attempt to introduce parity.
At present the process is individual orientated rather than peak body framed and while such a large number of coaches come from a particular club it fuels the nepotism debate.
Having such an experienced head coach, it seems a waste of that resource not use him to educate a wider number of coaches from all clubs.

In other words, you want someone else to do all the work for you. Again.

#142,
No,
I want a clear unequivocal pathway for coaches from all clubs to be involved in a higher level program where district coaches from each club have an equal opportunity to take part in the SASI program through a formal process of selection by the clubs in conjunction with the state head coach.
Such a process would alleviate a lot of the criticism associated with poaching/nepotism and would be transparent.No club/s could then monopolize SASI as is the case now.

But that wouldn't mean that the best coaches are developing the best players.

SASI is not a coach development program, it is the underpinning AIS/Australian Junior team program.

It's results directly reflect on the head coach, as such, the head coach should be in charge of decisions regarding player and coach selections. Not people at clubs who are not accountable for the results.

Again, players move because they are unhappy, try fixing your club first. Ask your committee if they even consider juniors to be their main priority. Or more importantly, what they are doing about improving coaches at your club. Better still, ask them if your senior coaches (who are looking after 1 team) are getting paid more than your junior coaching director who is looking after 30+ teams.

Owned.

Can I make one point which may seen left field but it is off season and thus it's could be likened to the free agent part of the year. each player is up for grabs and if they want to move they will. if they get offered a div 3 at one club and then get offered a div 2 at another then they will move.
at this point of the year I see nothing wrong with coach's or club officials talking to players / parents about moving. if the season had of started then i could see why it's a bad thing.
I just see that season's over thus so are club comitments untill summer season starts.

A lot of posts about poaching, but looking at some of the junior lists for Summer, there's actually not much evidence of it going on!

Of over 1,000 boys who play, I can only find 13 boys who have possibly changed clubs and some of those have an each way bet with being on lists for both clubs. About 6 seem to have moved clubs and only 2 of those are pretty decent players who will probably end up playing Div 1 from Div 2 where they were (no Div 1 team)

I guess poaching is at epidemic levels!!!