sum1
Years ago

Solution to the Central Womens team for 2007

I would have thought that a better solution to the Centrals Womens dilemma would be to go and see if there are players in the reserves teams of other clubs who are willing to go to Centrals to get some valuable game time. Organise for a one year contract to be put in place whereby the Primary club eg North where the player came from can return to that club the next year.

All Centrals need to do is talk to the league about this solution and it can occur. Centrals representatives still have time to organise this. This would be a win win for the competition the games would be played as per normal rather than have a bye.

Please respond to this forum if you would be interested in this option. A weekend Camp could be set up to select the players from and those who miss out can go back to their original team with no drama.

Topic #10218 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

I thought Centrals already ask the clubs for this.

Reply #117107 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

if it was only that simple. A lot of players wouldnt be seen dead in a centrals womens uniform. No matter how much time they got. Its sad but its true. Its a great idea though.

Reply #117108 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

sum1,

Problem is that you would not be looking at the starting 5 for reserve teams as they play ABA as bench players. That leaves the bench reserve players. What happens when they come up against a Forestville or West and get smacked? How many will turn up the following week? What happens when they get called up into the ABA team for their original club becasue they have some injuries and absentee's. Do they then not play for Centrals that week, or do the club they have come from lose games and suffer becasue centrals can't get their sh$t together.

Just another person putting something forward without thinking it through.

Reply #117111 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Comments like that hardly encourage others to submit ideas that might be useful...

Reply #117113 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sum1, The main problem with this is distance. Any player not getting minutes at say a Forestville or wanting to leave a uni program to play ABL/Reserves will have 5 or 6 clubs within 15 minutes of them. Why would they go out to Centrals? The girls program at the club has a long way to go, but will be a great challenge for those involved.

What Central's needs to do is develop girls basketball in their area. Girls dont have many sporting options out there. The local State League Netball club is struggling too. Attract the local players and develop them. Easier said than done - just like your idea.

117108, ya chump, Centrals wouldn't want you in a uniform, dead or alive!

Reply #117114 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Court time is only one thing. I am guessing that reserve ABA players not on the bench of the ABA team might be quite young. What is important to them at that age. Time in an ABA team or quality coaching from a strong club. For this to work Centrals would need to make sure the latter point is properly addressed.

Reply #117116 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I am surprised Sturt have not come on here and suggested they have 2 teams.

promotion/relegation etc etc

Reply #117160 | Report this post


blue paint  
Years ago

yes - why not !

Reply #117203 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

Pro/rel is not a concept that would benefit the senior competition. As it is not primarily a development competition.

Reply #117231 | Report this post


slapntickle  
Years ago

Is there any confirmation that centrals arnt fielding a team - or are we still speculating?

Reply #117236 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It doesnt look promising. Unless they can get a team together quick smart.

Reply #117247 | Report this post


booga  
Years ago

would a combined state 18's and 20's team with players not required for aba for own club be worth while like a mini ais team locally. would strengthen players for nationals and help clubs produce quality players for there program next season.

Reply #117256 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

why not get the country girls to play for them?

Reply #117259 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

18 State players already have too much on their plate, they train twice each weekend as well as their junior commitments. Don't see why they should be made to do extra wok just becasue 1 club is unable to get their sh#t together. And the U20 State players would all be their respective ABA team. Not considering the 5 that are in Canberra at the AIS.

Keep trying. I makes me think that most people have no idea.

Reply #117261 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Vader,

Some people try to generate ideas; others that can't knock back the ideas. Where do you sit?

Reply #117293 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

Vader
An Academy style team in the girls may have some merit.
It would be pitched at exactly the right level.
What do others think?

Reply #117310 | Report this post


In the Know  
Years ago

Would love to see a development type team as the men do have. Just would need a sponsor that would support it like the Stanford Grand supports the men's team.

Reply #117313 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

What is the Stanford budget / sponsorship worth?

Reply #117327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

An academy team is an excellent idea, it would provide many players with an opportunity to develop a maturity and leadership traits that they don't get a chance to do within their club sides as junior players.

They won't be the best side out there, however players will have an opportunity to play at the ABL level with a group of people their own age and not only learn a thing or two but also prove something to all the senior coaches out there who will be watching their progress.

This side with state juniors (presumably) do already have significant loads, however if run in a similar way to Netball (where it is a senior SASI side) the training and games would be incorporated into their program and not added to it.

A great idea whoever it was that came up with it.

Reply #117445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Again,

Who is going to pay for an academy team? Word is that the men's squad is not going to continue becasue of a lack of funds.

With the sub-standard of stadiums and shortage of courts, this needs to be a priority. Also a develoment officer in the area, as well as other area's need addressing before spending money to help out a club that can't find 10 players to make an ABA team.

What happens next year when Centrals find some players. Does this academy then get dropped?

Name some people who would play in it.

20 State team.

5 at the AIS
Romeo - already playing ABA
McPhail - alreaady playing ABA
Mansfied - already played ABA
Hargraves - in ABA squad last year

So that leaves perhaps 1 who would probably be able to play ABA with her club if she choses too.

Why would these kids give up playing ABA at their club to play for Centrals? More importantly, why should the clubs deminish their teams to cover a SASI team in the comp. It has been tried before and every club said OK so long as they didnt lose their own players.

Reply #117472 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

The money is definately the big issue.
The setting up of a team etc would be no problems.
Try this:
*each club nominates a max of two players/ year.
* 1 player minimum to come from each club for the squad, all players to play a min of 5 games / season
* Maximum time in program 2 years.
* Limit to u/23.
* Clubs can recall a player after each season
*Each club to subsidise to a set figure enough to cover training.
* one Team training / 1 individual /week. Train once with the club.
*60 trainings @2hrs $60/hr total $7440
* Coaches $5000/year
*Uniforms and medical - Basket ball Adelaide $2000

Any merit for the develpment of womens basketbal??
Who knows, probably just wasting time this afternoon!



Reply #117510 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Community based basketball is always the ideal way to go.

The ideal is to develop a program that local business, schools and players identify with. No one would identify with an Academy team in ABL other than the players, parents and coaching staff.

Reply #117511 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

$15000 minimum. I am sure basketball can spend that sort of money better each year.

Nobody would disagree that it would be a good idea. But just not necessary.

Why would a club nominate a player that can be in their roatation or even there reserves team. Especially when clubs struggle to make teams each week in the womens comp.

So you would be left with players who are not up to standard. I would assume this isn't for second tier players!

And wouldn't most of these players get more our of training against the WNBL players and senior ABA players that are already at their clubs rather than training against the same people they have trained against each week and played against for the past 5 years.

What happens when clubs need there players back mid season due to injuries?

What happens when Centrals want back into the womens comp?

How can you say that this training would be better than their club trainings?

Reply #117512 | Report this post


117511  
Years ago

I remember seeing the "Adelaide Opals" play a few yrs back now. I think the other 4 people in the crowd enjoyed the game too.

Reply #117514 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

(#117512)
Yeah it has hair on it.
Some clubs could easily pluck 2 players and not weaken the senior program, others...?

Its the game stuff which would be of the greatest benefit IMO . Its players 8-13 within a squad that this would need to catch. They could really benefit in that jump from role player to having the expectation to make the game happen.

...Only ideas really, couldnt hurt to try with the space created this year.

And we probably do have better things to spend money on.

Cost was $1650/ club / season. Cheap or expensive?

Reply #117515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

*Each club to subsidise to a set figure enough to cover training.

Cost was $1650/ club / season.


Dr D, usually I think your pretty close to the mark just about everytime, but in this instance I'm directly opposing your view.

Why should my club (not exactly flowing in the green stuff at the moment) PAY money because Centrals can't get their act together? Money that is going directly for one, maybe two, players?

I agree with you that the gap is a problem. It is a problem IMO because the powers that be didn't enforce the rule that I've been led to believe (on this site, so may actually not be a rule) is in place - no women's team, no men's team. The program could be redrafted accordingly (3 rounds/24 games??)

Reply #117517 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

From those denying the idea of an Academy-style team to fill the gap, what's the solution? Byes for the year, or is there something else worth trying?

Reply #117518 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

#117517)

*Each club to subsidise to a set figure enough to cover training.

You shouldnt pay money, not for that reason, it provides a NEW opportunity.

This could really have a new Thread, we are off topic.

My first statement to discuss this ides was THE MONEY. So couldnt agree more.
Yes am am not really suggesting it is plausible in our State.

Did you know there is Youth League in all Eastern states?
We dont have the population to sustain that, but one youth team would match our player base and help all clubs...Maybe??

Reply #117520 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This may all be a moot point.

I have heard from a fairly reliable source that Centrals will have no stats people and no stats gear for the season which means they wont be able to have a home game unless the away team provides them!

Reply #117528 | Report this post


booga  
Years ago

vader i know u have a wealth of talent at your club. what about the role players playing second fiddle behind the stars of the team would this alow those players a shot at aba that they might not of got.

Reply #117551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I've heard that a condition of entry into the ABA is the provision by a club of both a men's and women's team (and that this could affect Centrals if the women had to pull out). Is it actually stated in the ABA By Laws that clubs must provide teams for both the men's and women's competitions? Or is it an unwritten rule? Or is it just untrue?

Reply #117574 | Report this post


sum1  
Years ago

Well lets hope that after posting this message that some of the proposals are taken on board and discussed by executives at the ABA level otherwise there will be a loss of revenue for all clubs concerned if the bye option was the only choice.

Reply #117592 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

sum1,

Clubs would actually benefit from the reduction in games. After paying the ref's, court hire and getting people to volunteer to do duties. Not too mantion the player payments. Clubs would make a loss each week.

So realistically, clubs will decrease the net loss they have!

Reply #117597 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

There are no players at Sturt that would benfit from this type of program.

a/ There are already in the ABA squad.

or b/ They are not good enough for ABA level yet.

or c/ They are U18 and have year 12 study, State, SASI and junior commitments, which are more important than some academy type program.

Reply #117601 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

Vader
Is it possible for a club to have not 1 person!!!
Only 8 players are rotated in an ABA squad.
That means number 9-16 are Junior(u/18).
The others would be the class of player who would benefit.
Every club would have a group of 4-6 of these players.

Reply #117603 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

Dr Damage,

I would contend that over an ABA season a coach needs 10 - 12 players. With National commitments to Marino and Nixon, injuries to players and work/study commitments anything less is hazzardous to a teams performance.

Plus a good senior program involves a strong reserves program (somthing which all womens programs - Sturt included - struggle with) to maintain continuity from week to week and year to year.

This means that a squad of 14 - 15 is needed. I would doubt that any players not in this squad would benefit.

Reply #117606 | Report this post


Dr Damage  
Years ago

Gee, I am a bit surprised at that. Truly.


As a player, am I going to benefit from 20-25mins on court or 2-5 mins per game.
For me , a year of that would have been perfect at 19 years of age.
I had to sit and wait( 2 years)for retirement of a veteran player when I was coming through, maybe something like this would have helped?

Reply #117613 | Report this post


Sector 7G  
Years ago

Think of it as natural selection.
The weak fall be the wayside and become extinct. The strong adapt better, get a greater share of the resources, and prosper as a species.
Maybe we need LESS clubs and don't need to prop up the inefficient and ineffective.
Harsh, but so is natural selection. Its a jungle out there.

Reply #117622 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

One of the biggest issues basketball faces IMO is the burnout of young players. Too much too soon means that many people are gone from the sport before they hit 22. The academy squad principle would only exacerbate this situation. Sure, if the sport were much deeper it would be a concept worth looking at.
It seems that one needs to step away from rules and bylaws and work out what would truly be in the best interests of Central, the local community and basketball in turn over the longer term. Unfortunately the pressure to field a womens team (as without it there is no mens team) means that every solution is a quick fix. There is no quick fix. The club is not going to want to lose both teams so as a result is forced into looking short term. A better solution would be to accept that Centrals at this point in time should consider not entering a womens team, and indeed this may be the case for a number of years. Then invest their time and energy in starting from scratch at junior level to rebuild the clubs own stocks of players. In 5 years time they may re-enter the competition stronger, better managed and equipped to compete, therefore meaning a better overall competition. Whilst I understand the intention of the rule, or bylaw, it is actually the key barrier in preventing a better long terms solution.
There is no doubt that there is potential out there....population, demographics etc, time and energy needs to be invested by the club and the association to rebuild.

Reply #117628 | Report this post


Vader  
Years ago

Dr Damage

You are comparing Oranges and Apples.

Not too many senior WOMENS programs have players sitting on the bench for a couple of years if they are capable. Sturt started 2 players under the age of 21 last season and had 3 U20 players on their bench. 2 of these players had regualr minutes.

So who would you suggest makes the team.

Reply #117631 | Report this post


ivory tower  
Years ago

Sector 7G, that attitude is a part of the problem.

District teams are placed pretty smartly around SA. They are based in areas geographically and demographically to catch the most amount of players and establish strong community links etc. I think it would be great to see 10 Strong, Successful District Clubs stong and prosper. Loose one or 2 of them to "natural selection" then we start over again. Down to 8 then what happens to those bottom 2? Loose Eastern, Southern and Centrals all together and this is just not going to be good. If there was going to be any clubs fall by the wayside it should be an inner city club. Hopefully those people would then move on to help the clubs in the key basketball growth markets (Southern, Centrals, Eastern)

Get the junior competition right (regionalisation for the kiddies, pro/rel (with the right controls)) and the strength in ABL will follow.

Dr Damage your philosphy is a good one I think. But realisticlly, logistically, reward for investment of time and money is it really viable??????

Reply #117636 | Report this post


EML  
Years ago

Everyone seems to be forgetting one thing.

This is the most logical thing booga has EVER contributed to the forum.

Reply #117642 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Also, what happens with the Div 2 comp. Centrals have entered a team in here too. I guess same theory applies? If you play Centrals you have a bye?

Reply #117647 | Report this post


booga  
Years ago

i have my moments thank u eml see u sunday

Reply #117650 | Report this post


Big Kahuna  
Years ago

If Centrals have to withdraw why not play 3 complete rounds for the women. Thats only what 24 rounds? Lot better the 16 rounds that would be a joke.

Reply #117719 | Report this post


Sector 7G  
Years ago

Ivory Tower
I hear what you're saying but how long do we have to wait?
Centrals have some things stacked against them but I'd suggest that for a long time they've had some tremendous advantages in terms of population that they have frankly squandered.
Yes I know their socio demographic has some difficulty but no different to down south where they have been tremendously successful in both juniors and seniors.
It may be a fact that there are too many Div 1 clubs. The talent is diluted and the competition weakened. There is enough evidence that suggests this is the case eg Centrals and W'ville were pretty uncompetetive last year. I'm not saying as a club they should fold but its no big deal if they don't field a senior women's team.
Let them work their demographic advantages, build a strong junior program and in 10 years time they will have a strong senior program.
Its not rocket science.

Reply #117736 | Report this post


Tony Blair  
Years ago

Big Kahuna just how do you run three complete rounds for the women.

Sturt, Forestville, North, Norwood and other women's teams are locked into playing each week in a double header to the women.

to run 3 rounds for the women you'd have women in stand alone games all over the place and as most clubs rely on volunteers from doorkeeping to floor wiping it makes more sense to run the games as double headers. Club people can then watch the men play after the women without travelling all over the country side to see both games.

Reply #117738 | Report this post




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