Nutwork
Years ago

Development

This will get people talking.

Statistically speaking I had a look at a couple of players on NBL.com.

It appears Oscar has had a year very similar to last year. No great improvement.

Jacob has decreased a fair bit in most statistical categories except rebounding.

Mastro is similar to previous years, definitely not regressing.

Darren NG has increased his output significantly.

Are Phil & SJ really that bad at player development?

When in Adelaide Oscar & Jacob steadily improved and definitely didn't get any worse. This year Jacob has decreased his output (he doesn't look like a likely Boomer now) and Oscar (with increased court time) hasn't improved markedly.

I am not bagging the guys at all, just posing a question.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

given that they don't do player development, their reputation is not good. its just not a focus for them

you put ng in for development as a joke right?

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me  
Years ago

makes interesting reading to me, Will wait to see how Phil and Co, will be blamed again.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

This is not about blame it is about them just not having a good rep with younger players.

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mopar  
Years ago

How about why did we throw out the developed player like that Jason Williams guy, where did he go ?

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Dribbler  
Years ago

I'd suggest the differences for the players mentioned would be a change of roles played.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

jason williams was crap

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Double Clutch  
Years ago

This is a classic example of where stats become miss-leading.

Oscar's case is probably the easiest to point out. Firstly look at the starting point guard of the team in Paul Henare, who is the second worst starting point guard in the league on the offensive end of the court only behind Rhys Carter. Paul is quite strong, so once he gets someone on his hip he can penetrate quite well, but unfortunately he isn't as great a shooter as Brett Maher and tends not to create a driving lane off the dribble as often. Conversely Oscar would find this year that opposition defences can afford to not collapse to cut off the driving lanes when it comes to the point position (the D collapses when Powell drives but Powell is a NBA hopeful ball hog from which once the ball is passed to it is never seen again), hence the defender can stay at home on Oscar more often. The best way to stop a spot-up shooter is to stop him from catching the rock. Keeping this in mind it's not surprising to note that despite Oscar's increased playing time his 3point shot attempts per game have only increased from 5.1 per game to 5.7 per game.
So when Oscar moved from Adelaide to New Zealand it was a move whereby he would have to expand his game a bit to keep his stats on the same level. While progress has no doubt been slow there have been some signs of improvement. He has been more willing to put the ball on the floor and pull up off the dribble for the jump-shot. His on-ball defence has improved as the season has gone on (something which wasn't a focus at all in Adelaide) and he is no longer getting beaten by a simple head-fake now. Also his rotation has somewhat improved (he still does those soft 3 point play fouls sometimes and sometimes he get embarrassed for it, like the Abney dunk).
As for Jacob I haven't seen him play as much, but when I have, the first thing I notice is he doesn't get to back down defenders in the mid-block like he used to and get his turn-around shots. He used to be able to in Adelaide catch the ball and back-down for a good 3 or 4 seconds with 4 other 3 point threats on the court and not expect a double, but the Dragons don't have any set for him like this within their offence. In fact the Dragons offence is incredibly perimeter orientated and doesn't play to Jacob's strength. Meanwhile it's only Heal's first season as coach, and I don't see many people proclaiming his greatness as a coach yet.
In the end however, what really matters is the attention to young player's games that Smyth devotes, and the ability to use that to recruit young talent which is the major concern for the club moving forward. Unfortunately for Phil, he seems to spend more time attempting to chase away young talent than actually trying to recruit it.

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Tony Blair  
Years ago

love your work DC insightful and informative.

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Izzy  
Years ago

This is just reflective of how much work it takes to improve as a player and translate that improvement into stats.
What these stats don't measure is the feeling of satisfaction and confidence that the player feels when working on their respective games. A feeling that they obviously didn't experience here. Whilst the statline from last year to this may be similar, I think the question to ask each player is...do you feel a better player this year? I think both would say yes.

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skink  
Years ago

jason williams, are you serious? Holmes was the defence and the rebounding in our team.For some reason he could not bring his offence to the nbl like he did in the aba.2 hugely diff leagues yes.But we have had no defence all year.i know we have always been an offensive team but perhaps we need to DEVOLOP some defence.Bye bye willy,copeland,ng and wheeler

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Re: Post (#117666)
How is Ng's development a joke?

He clearly has improved this season compared to the last season he played

Havent seen Oscar or Jacob to comment on their games.. has Jacob developed an arc in his shots yet or they still flat?


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HO  
Years ago

Double Clutch,

How are the statistics misleading? Nutwork has not provided any....

There are about 300 formulas available that attempt to measure output statistically, and I've only ever seen the crap ones quoted like tendex and power ratings - if Nutwork is using one of those then you would probably be spot on.

If Nutwork is using one of the more advanced forumas, like those that take into account league wide play, unbalanced match-ups and styles of games etc, then it would be really good to see them....Nutwork?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

NG can't play D, its as simple as that

Reply #117735 | Report this post


Double Clutch  
Years ago

"This year Jacob has decreased his output (he doesn't look like a likely Boomer now) and Oscar (with increased court time) hasn't improved markedly."

He didn't quote statistics but rather alluded to them.

Being a bit pedantic aren't we HO?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

no, he isn't

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Isaac  
Years ago

Ng's stats have improved because he has received more minutes. Nothing to do with development at all.

When he accepted the Woollacott Medal, Ng was asked about how much shooting and training he must do to be at that level. His brothers both laughed and Darren admitted that he hadn't been spending those hours and hours each day working on his shot - he's just talented.

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