It's all a matter of selective breeding - just ask Yao Ming's parents.

I also have it on very good authority that 3 or 4 years ago all Norwood girls were regularly stretched on racks at every training.

I also have it on very good authority that 3 or 4 years ago all Norwood girls were regularly stretched on racks at every training.

the problem Norowood had then was that they don't spend time with potential post players they are a very guard orientated club. The guards can do no wrong and when they do they blame the posts for the mistakes. The talls have left the club because of no training and guards training is offered even at private premises with the State Coach...No wonder they leave. Check out the current team no talls...they run a fast game, look at the ABA team all short. The clubs the talls have gone too will benefit in the end.....

Bob is that you........

Wanna see where all the tall girls in Adelaide are? Go out to ETSA Park on a Saturday morning.

why is that, why are the tall girls playing netball? My daughter plays netball and my son played basketball but couldn't compete with the talls so he is now playing baseball. I thought he had a future but the giants saw to that.
Yes I have been to see netball and agree. Is it becasue we don't have the opportunity in basketball? Tall girls should be trained and not burned...its common knowledge that talls take longer to show out...be patient with them and not burn them.

Steve.....

Why would you play basketball and train endlessly, play Friday nights and cop abuse from coaches stuck in the 60's 'humiliate em' style when, you could play netball on a Saturday, at a central city location, train once a week and if your any good have one hundred times the chance to play at a higher level than basketball?
More girls play neball than basketball because their is a career path, a stronger senior league, more senior teams, a better national comp and a more female involvement in both administration and coaching.
Girl's basketball is slowly passing away from apathy, when its played, coaching methods, second string status, lack of pathways and an indifferent administration that believes girls don't count.
Forget where the tall girls are, the cry should be, where are the girls?

yep agree.....

I have a girl in Under 14 Div 3.(first year) She is going to be tall, she is committed to the game, she loves training, respects coaches,and referees both after school and on Saturdays, so has a very good understanding of the game. Wantss to give up a promising career in competitive swimming for basketball. She is a valuable player in her team.
She has been denied an opportunity to have development skill training with the Div 2's, in preparation for next season. Why? beacause I had the audacity to complain about the poor behaviour of one of her previous coaches.But she is potentially tall and should be cultivated.
Netball does value their girls.Neither merit or been tall will help her in her basketball journey. I should have just shut up and let the club treat her and the rest of her team badly. I complained, she did not. She is "small" in their eyes. How sad!

Your choice of words in terms of giving up a promising CAREER in swimming is very interesting to me. Career implies competing at a professional level for a period of 8 yrs or more to me. Does this implication suggest that maybe you are the problem here? If a kid is a very good player NO club will hold that player back because of a slight complaint of a parent. The jump from Div 3 to Div 2 is massive. Maybe its time to admit that your daughter is just playing for fun and perhaps not good enough for the div 2 team yet, instead of "blaming the club". Let her have fun, choose what sport she wants to play, make sure she is accountable for her results and not "blame the club". Last of all if she is playing any sport for a career, especially womens basketball, she will more than likely be very dissapointed unless of course when you say tall you are saying she will be 6foot3 or taller.

Oops, I used the word "career" badly. Giving up swimming training to opt for concentrating on basketball was just a minor point. She would choose basketball over swimming any day. ( early mornings etc etc). Excellent for x-training
though.
The post talked about cultivating talls...and while clubs say they do not hold back kids based on complaints, who are you trying to kid. We see it, and live it.
Friendships at coaching levels can be powerful barriers, but also be an advantage.
I have whinged once, more fool me.
So therefore while merit and height is an advantage, complaining is certainly not.
In a club with huge player depth,there is not always a big gap between Div 2 and Div 3.
First year Div 3's, given the opportunity, are often second year Div 2s

potato salad blah blah - you had me until you said Netball had better career path.

Just exactly how many full-time netballers are there in Australia?

(i'll give ya a hint - you can could em on one hand).

PMT: Welcome to the wonderful world of junior basketball. A world where coaches are king or Queen and obedience training for parents is akin to getting knackered.
Despite it being naive of both the last two posters to think that either parents won't try to get answers from coaches or that clubs don't hold things against parents who do, its 'a taken for granted' in Basketball that you shut up or pay the consequences.
Basketball is such a closed shop for most and clubs' are often mini dynasties where tacit rules apply. New comers to basketball enter a world of such intrique they very often fall foul of the administrators and coaches of the sport for asking questions related to equal time and fairness that basketball diehards have learned thru years of conditioning, you just don't ask.
In some clubs, the parents will create pecking orders and exert influence and heaven help you if you have a talented kid, you will be the victim of envy. If your kid plays Div 1 in his or her first year, expect to be disliked.
Some club's allow children to be verbally abused by coaches and will label you a trouble maker for bringing it to their attention.
The subjectivity associated with ability allows coaches to run/play/time kids as they wish and you adapt or quit.
A major issue is that we all adapt. Our kids love basketball, hate the way its run, but don't want to be rocking the boat. Get used to tears every friday night or saturday morning. Get used to inequity. Get used to the fact that sucking up works big time.
I love the game, wish it was differently run and administered and fear for its future but I'm alone in that with the clubs thinking they'll live for ever.
Basketball must be the last junior sport where coaches can get away with swearing at kids and parents get the label as trouble makers for bringing it up.

Prince Phillip, Career paths take many shapes nd I'd argue netball affords better tracks to the elite level than basketball.
Its junior level is better organised and structured, its venue central, its costs lower,its time slot more user friendly, its 16 to 20 age grouping more in touch with academic pursuits and it frees up friday nights.
You have a greater chance at playing senior level Netball cause there are more teams.
Yes I accept professionally it lags at the moment but that is about to change and they will play at the home of basketball the Dome. More girls over 17 play netball than basketball. More girls play at senior level netball than basketball. They have an ongoing future in netball that doesnt exist in basketball and thats irrefutable.

#801.
Deep, very, very deep! Can we all come to you for advice.

Then take your kid to Netball because players with parents like you never make it in any sport. They just end up finding excuses other than working harder for their own failure, which is generally that they don't think that they need to work hard because mummy and daddy think that they are already a superstar.

From experience I have heard the exact same things from Netball girls who prefer basketball. Coaches playing favourites, parents pushing behind the scenes, and parents who think that their little Jenny is better than some other kid in the team above them.

PS you can't play Netball at the Olympics.

You just do not get it HA,HA.
Kids can work really hard and not get recognition, even if "tall" and committed. Horror, they may even have talent.
Parents feel their childrens' pain and often do not complain for fear of retribution. Most do stand back.
There is a nasty side to most sports,including basketball. Where is the incentive for loyality and hard work. It is not the kids fault if a parent complains.
I have yet to see a young player complain to a coach in an effective consultative, negotiative manner.
That is if either you have a coach or one that it not threatening.
If a kid who works really hard and shows talent but does not get recognised because they do not have a coach to advocate for them, then what does a parent do? Bring it to the club's attention and risk further alienation.
I thought all tall kids with potential were given some skill development.

look if the kids is happy playing the lower division gaining more court time and learning, let the kid be. When she grows, and her skills have improved she will be noticed. I have a son in under 16s who is small, playing a lower division, he has seen tall kids playing higher divisions that don't have the same skill, but as he said, he is happier playing good court time than being on the bench in a higher division. He knows eventually he will make it to the top division when he grows. Just enjoy the time who knows what will happen next year

When are you guys gonna realize its all about the coaches and who can benefit them. We laugh at the basket case that is basketball and the way it is run by a dictatorship in this state.

No wonder kids leave the game in droves at the older age group[s when ironically they start to think for themselves.

It is quite simply a game with no end product for the majority of users.

I do get it.

If a kid is working hard and showing promise, why wouldn't a coach take them up into their team?

Coaches are just a selfinsh and usually want to win more than the next person. So if the kid is going to do the right thing, and is going to help the team win, then why would they not be in the team?

The probelm is the mum and pop Kettle dont understand that their kid is just not good enough, and try to make excuses.

Just like at Netball!

My kids coach shared his reasons for coaching his team. "Because my kids gets looked after in Div 1/2"

It is plain to see that the Coach does not actually enjoy coaching his team and it is done for altruistic reasons - what the bleep do you do about that..

and yes he nitpicks certain kids week in week out and the "friends" kids in the team that make mistakes are left to fly "under the radar" and nothing is said to them so their confidence is left intact while the rest are ridiculed week in week out ...and YES IM A BLOODY SOOK.....

Ha Ha,
Not only do you not get it but you are exactly the type that needs to get out of basketball. Your stereotyping of each person with an issue was handled with the same lack of compassion that is driving players and parents away.
There are lots of successful players with successful parents in all walks of life that feel junior basketball is in disarray.
Every criticism or issues is rebuffed with the same inane drivel you espouse that parents are living their dreams through underperforming and undeserving sons and daughters which is shallow and self revealing.
You're beyond informed critical debate and so I fear are the basketball administrators who don't see any problems.
Primary schools play less and less basketball at lunch and recess nowadays and high schools are following suit. The feet are dying and the head will follow unless we open up better lines of communication and build a better comp which values dissenting voices.

justaintright,

Move clubs!

This is what I understand

I am sure that none of you complaining are going to attend your clubs next AGM and apply for a position on the committee to change things. But rather sit behind an anonomous computer and bitch about the hours of work volunteers put in.

I am sure that as soon as your child stops playing basketball you will not enter a basketball stadium.

I am sure that you will never understand that a persons status has nothing to do with whether they think their kid is better than they really are and that it is other people holding them back rather than them not working hard enough for it.

I am sure that rather than moving to an enviroment that does not do the things that you are complaining about you would rather attack people putting in effort to do the ight thing even though they are only doing their best imperfect effort. Then make sure that your won friends get into positions which can faviour you and your family.

Ha Ha

It is people like you who think they are doing the game a service - please do not take offence but your use by date has gone - Let the game move forward. Basketball SA has lost its opportunity to have a clean out and get rid of living in the 70's. Out with the old - in with the new. Unfortunately this won't happen till death.

interesting thread but this is about how we can hang on to talls....clubs need to nurture them and not abuse them for a quick fix, finals etc. Guards dominate the lower divisions but as the years go by they pass them by. It is a credit for the young talls to stick around and how amazing is it when the talls make it and the attitudes change. That tall un cordinated kid who was being abused by the guards and coaches because they are unco are now the main attack for the side. I have seen it and it consists at Norwood....the earlier thread where have they gone well check out that club they just don't have any.....they just don't know how o keep them. Its an even playing field....guards rule the junior divisions just look at that club and you will see that I am correct.

Coaches are not the only volunteers. And although they are a rule to themselves do not forget that Team Managers are volunteers and are the conduit between the coaches and the "paying" parents.
Pity the poor Team Manager who has to keep upto 9 sets of parents informed and under reasonable control, particularly when the coaches distances themselves from the team. Or the team manager who has to manage up because the team has no coach!!!
How do the tall kids in a team get recognition when there is no coach or advocate. (Div 1 coaches are often too busy to notice).

cheapshot and nolaughingmatter,

Do you hold a position on your clubs committee? (NO) Did you attend your clubs last AGM? (NO) What exactly are you doing other then complaining on a public forum to improve your club? (NOTHING)

Coaches and committee members gengerally give up their free time to help out the club and OTHER peoples kids. Very rarely do team manager, manage teams other than their own kids. In my experience they do it to help their own kids team out, not to help the club nor basketball. It's not like most parents aren't at the games already.

I am sure that coaching directors and coaches are aware of any players that can help their team or club improve. If not, ask them if they consider your child to be in the wrong team. When they tell you that your kid is not good enough to move up, accept it, and if you are still unhappy move to a club that meets your own requirements.

Again, the problem is that parents like yourself are unable to understand that your opinion of your own kids ability is biased.

hahahahaha, making judgements about individuals is fraught with danger. You obviously are well and trully part of the basketball junior administration in SA as evidenced by your perceptions.
You may be wrong.
Public forums: Isnt that where we discuss issues. Encourage debate. Seek solutions.
My experience with AGM's has left me cold on the prospect of ever changing current trends in basketball but has not stopped me from trying. The problem is that, those I am trying to convince issues exist are all like you.

Yes, good point (922)
There are some wonderful coaches in all clubs and it seems that it is the minority of poorly behaved coaches that so many seem to complain about. I have experienced both the best and the worst.My my child has suffered, and will continue to suffer due to me making a complaint.She has been recommended by no less that 2 divisional coaches to be given the opportunity to play up but the coach at the higher level will not give her the opportunity. So she must have impressed somebody other than a proud parent! Her time will come. I have learnt my lesson..do not complain.And I have not forgotton that this sport provides wonderful, diverse friendships.
But there is no doubt that of all the postings I see that either are directly or remotly relate to junior clubs and their coaches this topic seems to generate the most complaint,interest and comment fedback. Poor coaching, or perceived ( rightly or wrongly) coaching issues are out there and it is time that either the clubs or if appropriate, Basa, get together and try and come up with solutions or resolutions to this pressing situation. It is clearly not going to go away. Mediation at the club level, or a Member Protection Officer may be a start with clear guidleines that if you have a grievance then is is dealt with fairly with no culture of retribution. And the process needs to be continually monitored to ensure that the kids do not suffer due to a grievance from a parent. Feedback at Club level should be encouraged to provide clear and transparent dealings.The feedback can be annonymous to protect members.
Pity coaches, do not have Performance Management, but alas to do that you would have to pay them. Not an option..or is it.. Would parents be happy to have their fees increased to provide a retainer for coaches and therfore making them more accountable. It does seem though it is usually at both the lower divisions and for the younger girls that coaching numbers and quality are low.
So to all the god coaches out there,
thankyou for a job well done . You have an enourmously important role. To all those bully coaches..your time will eventually come.

Cheapshot,

"Mediation at the club level, or a Member Protection Officer may be a start with clear guidleines that if you have a grievance then is is dealt with fairly with no culture of retribution" so are you going to put your hand up now or when your daughter's playing days are over?

Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country my friend!

Cheapshot, because I agree that these roles are needed at clubs and at BSA.

I do agree with the poster above that there are many, many parents out there that want whats best for their kids and dont care about any others.

Because cheapshot, 99% of coaches would love nothing better than having such people to sort out issues like the ones you discuss. Most committees don't have the time to deal with them and are not independent enough, these issues often get swept under the carpet.

I really do hope you do put your hand up!

MJ and chaepshot,

Are you sying that you want an independant body to decide which players a coach MUST have in their team?

hey 138916 it's obvious you know a little about Norowood as you have described them well and the way some people DO market the kids....I have also read many stories on here about the princess who is a prime example of what you are talking about....I only wish I had a tall girl so I had a choice to where I would send her....let me see Norwood I don't think so.
I have heard about the metro 16s and heard that they have a giant playing....good on her, I hope she sticks it out and weaves thru all the pot holes....be patient as the rewards will come.

Is there a hand book on 'A Parents guide into sucking up?

Back to the original posting.
Speaking to Victorian parents at the Classics they informed me that a player in say, under 14 can be 14 and still eligible to play.
If this is correct then interstate players can be up to 12 months older than ours.
At this age 12 months growth can be most significant.
Can anyone confirm if this age limit is true or false

Ian,

All events sanctioned by BA and their affiliates work under the same FIBA rules regarding ages.

Every year some parent comes back and says this and it will never be true.

Notice that any post with substance stops all the diehards in their tracks and any decent conversation ceases. It is hard to keep justifying the state of the great game of basketball in our state and how its fabric is being destroyed by a few with self interest.

#961.
Here's another viewpoint.
Many years ago in a quite different sport I excelled. However, my mouth and attitude never let me take advice, listen or compromise in the slightest, even though I was being groomed for state and national honours.
I was a junior superstar with the world at my feet but kept having trouble finding a hat to fit my swollen head.
Females were better options than training and I was able to shine now matter what abuse I'd put my body through. I told everyone, in one way or another just how good I was and I had contempt for those who were not as good as me.
Like your friend I turned my back on all the opportunities and walked out when the going got tough and I was expected to toe the line to become a 'coulda been' and a 'never was'.
It took me decades to realize that far from my club and state coaches shooting themselves in the foot , I'd used a shotgun on myself.
Best advice I'd give your mate is to set aside his pride and learn to be a team man and give it his best shot 'cause the world's full of 'best ever nevers' like me who walked when the going got too tough.
Leave having done your best and know walls are meant to smash.

So now we can't even discuss issues on Hoops SA with out putting our collective hands up at our club AGM's 1st!

Pretty tough rule, I don't know how Isaac can police that one!

I would say some of the posters on here who are having a go at others "complaining" have their own agendas that they are pushing & would probably tremble if any of us actually did show intrest in joining some of the "closed shop' committies getting around.

emptyjockstrap , that one deserves a ball. I'm sure there's many of us on here that can relate to you on that one. 99% of kids playing Div 1 Basketball want to go to the NBL/NBA, it is lucky if 1% of them will go on to any pro career of significance (IE 10 yrs plus with 90K per yr). The problem is you got naive junior coaches thinking that these kids will make it too, or thinking its best to make them beleive it.

Clubs, perpetuate the myths in players heads by 1. poaching players. 2. trying to keep players by telling them they are going to make it to the pros, to selfishly try to ensure those players do not get poached.

I know, I have been through it as a player.

What clubs should be doing is telling players to focus on enjoying the game, their teammates and taking the values and work ethic they learn in basketball and apply it to their professional lives. If they are lucky and gifted they might just make it as a pro player, get to play and be mates with some that do, or apply the things they learn in elite junior sport to experience some professional success.

Thats just my opinion, based on experiences.

As #139030 just brought up the ti camp, is it not odd that the mvp of the camp is not included in the all star five?

yet noone has compared the cultivating of girls height to that of boys. alot of boys are taken for size and then trained for guards simply so they 'might with 0.5% chance' make it to the pros. for girls competition, the height is not often as important, as was originally said that norwood play a running game, whats wrong with that?

also #139030, what is state and sasi for? when kids are told not to play anything else or for anyone else or they will get cut, are they really taking the best players in the state? or the ones who do as they are told?

also, sasi and state are not as good as it used to be. the SA u20 state womens had 5 AIS players this year and couldnt win the nationals comp. thats 5 players in the wnbl league who couldnt beat other juniors. not so great afterall.

and cos everyone is ading anything else in, ill add one more. there is a gap between div 2 and 3 because div 1 and 2's are 'looked after' as quoted somewhere above. clubs only care about the 1's and 2's because they mean being able to show top performances and how good the club is. any other div (3,4,5, etc)is there for revenue raising. not coincidental that such as the city south comp is also created now for participation based players, and clubs will eventually reduce the div 3,4,5, teams to concetrate on their 'special people'. so if your kid is wanting to play elite junior sport, and they have a promising netball or swimming choice, tell them that. play basketball but for fun, and no doubt netball, swimming and other sports will help them with their skill and athleticism development too.

i have no more time to type.

138988 , what post are you referring to. I actually thought this was a good discussion with a number of interesting perspectives.

(#139023) Well thanks for that ANON. At least YOU have confirmed that some of the posters are indeed pushing agendas on here to suit yourselves. I guess being on a committee is all well and good untill someone questions your high and mighty authority. I guess you can say and do what you want as long as you put your hand up and get on the committiee, eh? The punishment often melted out to kids with a smile for having parents daring to speak out is often from the coach under the guise of "what is best for your bball." Couple this with your attitude and you can see exactly why most parents choose to put up and shut up rather than cause waves.

Funny but when a parent has an issue they are labled as pushy stage parents, but coaches and committiee members are untouchable, very funny indeed.

I am sure that 99% of all parents, coaches & committiee members are their for the right reasons. Your defensive ANON snipe shows that the 1% of you are there for your own agendas & that is what is wrong with a lot of bball today. My one hope is you are not on my club committiee.

Signed,

D. Pushy Parent who cant be bothered doing anything around the club Thomas.

You are so right about people having their own agendas.

Most committee members want to build a club that they want their kids to prosper and succeed in. They want to ensure the best environment for their kid and do this by helping everyone in the club.

Coaches want to develop Elite Individual player's basketball, build a successful club environment, help develop basketball in general, offer their expertise based on years and years of intense playing/coaching experience and because they love the game. Most of us have played significant basketball and feel like we should give something back.


What exactly is your agenda, "D. Pushy Parent who cant be bothered doing anything around the club Thomas."? Think about it champ! I suspect you are a looser trying to bring others down to your lowest common denominator. If your not then that is the way you are coming across to everyone.

Yeah thats the usual come back to any parent that dares to post on here MJ. Very, very original.

As I said 99% of people at clubs have the club at heart. Its just funny to watch all the "what are you doing for your club" comments fly around as soon as a parent airs a complaint on here.

My agenda? To be able to post and read comments from other like minded parents on here with out the same old same old come backs, to banish wars, to feed the starving, to look after the sick and injured, to.......

I wont bother asking your agenda, because it was a bloddy stupid question in the first place!

Oh and by the way i guess I automaticly qualify as having a kid with no potential, but who I think is the next BIG thing?

D, the interesting thing is; and I have seen this time and time again. When those, like you, do finally put their hand up for a volunteers role and then I then hear the exact same complaints they had made previously levelled at them. This happens time and time again.

Do it D, get involved, I'm sure you will develop as a person as a result.

I am very aware of cultivating height. And where I can , I will choose long term body shape ahead of current talent.
In fact my poor Div 2 team had one tall girl taken up to div 1 after 25 trainings, and another is now ready for the transition after 51 trainings.
We always had these girls in mind , but they needed time to control their bodies.
Now that those who were committed to travelling to Melbourne have had the trip we could continue the development ( transition) of the taller girls into our top team.
Patience with the big girls , they still will not aid us until end of u/16's , but that is ok.

Cheez MJ, whats up your bum? I have to agree with D.Thomas in as much as any time a parent gets on here asking for advice or venting frustration they are classed as trouble making pushy parents who contribute nothing to their club. The fact is MJ, without parents, there are no clubs; a fact often lost on your fellow committee members

It IS an ongoing problem that some parents feel they cannot even dare to question some actions of coaches or clubs for fear of retribution.

The "boys club" is alive and well at some clubs and judging by your comments you are obviously part of the problem, not the solution.

Try quitting as a committee person.

"I'm sure you will develop as a person as a result"

And I guess in your eyes, that by posting this thread I to automatically qualify as having a kid with no potential, but who I think is the next BIG thing as well?

it is all about balance - 15-20 years ago a 180-185 cm woman would be a 5 player and considered a good height.

we really need to be looking at 190cm + future 5 players at national and international level to keep up with overseas teams.

sure you will have your 170 cm 1/2/3 players - but you really need 2-3 180 cm plus female players on the court to be properly balanced at ABL up levels.

the thing is 170 cm guards are not a rarity - but a good tall is.

also dr damage - what you said is spot on - until the growth spurt settles (? top age u16s) one can not expect too much

Give me a kid with brains and awareness over height any time. I can't believe the shit that is posted on here.

Get a life you guyz. No wonder the sport is going backwards in SA with the diatribe conveyed on here.

How tall is a tadpole ?

tadpoles take between 21 trainings and 51 to be measured then unfortunately they croak it.

I am a 6ft 6" male interested in meeting similar sized female so we can "cultivate some talls".

Or taddies

Soryy "Crapper" if the postings on here are not to your liking; prehaps you would like use your computer in a more useful way and start your own warm and fuzzy thread?

Dr Damage: Without debating the rights and wrongs of it, your statement about picking 'body shape over current ability' is probably what this thread's contentiousness has been all about.
Many parents feel that their child is out performing X and in fact, probably is but no one takes the time to explain the rationale behind the decision to persevere with palyer X.
Its also very hard for kids to take when so much is made of height and so little of skill and ability. An earlier poster referred to the multitude of 170cm guards and the inference that they are everywhere. I'd argue good quality guards are few and far between and there are precious few quality points.
My only point of difference to some is that I'd pick exclusively on attitude and ability irrespective of height given a choice.

Jockey Club

Now you have the right idea - I can confirm that this approach will result in a "tall" cannot confirm talent till I see you! lol