ANON12
Years ago

ABL FINALS - THE REFS

From the ABL Website the referees for this weeks finals. Some interesting matchups?
North vs South (Women)
Carolyn Tsakalos/Benn McDonald/
Paul Welbourn.
North vs Forestville (Men)
Andrew Filmer/Tristan Graham/
Wayne Maidment.
West vs Norwood (Women)
Andrew Just/Nathan Durant/
Nathan Wieland.
West vs Sturt (Men)
Geoff Weeks/Daniel Haebich/
Phil Haines.
Great to see the senior referees (weeks and Tsakalos) available for the finals.

Topic #12201 | Report this topic


Show Time  
Years ago

Thanks Anon - my boy missed out.
Whey start another thread though?



Reply #142384 | Report this post


ref watch  
Years ago

I'm surprised Alison Burch didn't pull a game - I think she has been outstanding this year - very consistent and fair.

Reply #142388 | Report this post


CAT94  
Years ago

After her performance at 16 Nationals, she has shown that she is too immature to ref anything that matters.

Reply #142389 | Report this post


Jake Jarmel  
Years ago

ref watch,

I almost vomited in my mouth after reading your post.

Alison should only be refereeing the finals of the midgets league, since none of them are tall enough to "physically intimidate" her.

http://www.jokechallenge.com/funny_pictures/midget_basketball.jpg

Reply #142400 | Report this post


zackbrack  
Years ago

was alison the ref that teched the big boy from south aus metro? or is she the blonde referee?

Reply #142402 | Report this post


buddyboy  
Years ago

nope thats her!!! she cant handle 14/15 year old boys!!!!

Reply #142405 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Haebich??????????????????????

Hey bitch???????????????????

He shouldn't be reffing Under 6 social, let alone ABL finals!

He can't even ref wheelchair basketball without making it all about him.

Reply #142420 | Report this post


ANON12  
Years ago

Sorry SHOWTIME, must have created this thread at the same time as you were posting yours - at least the info is now there.
Just a point of interest - the referee rosters are on the ABL website for all to read.
BUDDYBOY, CAT94 and JAKE JARMEL - I didn't think that this would turn into an Alison Burch bitch fest (are you junior coaches or agro parents) because her name was not even on the list (and therefore NOT refereeing), so I don't know why you chose to complain about a non event.

Reply #142424 | Report this post


Show Time  
Years ago

Daniel deserves his spot in the finals after coming back from some time away from the game.

As does Tristan who also left and came back.

Our sport needs more guys like this returning to the whistle blowing bragade.

Reply #142427 | Report this post


Blue Collar  
Years ago

I think those lineups are very good. They are all experienced officials who are respected by the players and have seen big game action in the past.

All the best to the players and officials for a successful post season.

Reply #142430 | Report this post


Easier to read  
Years ago

West vs Norwood (Women QF)
NWieland, NDurant, AJust.

North vs South (Women EF)
BMcDonald, CTsakalos, PWelbourn.

North vs Forestville (Men QF)
AFilmer, WMaidment, TGraham.

West vs Sturt (Men EF)
PHaines, GWeeks, DHaebich.

John Clover - away.

Reply #142433 | Report this post


Shooter27  
Years ago

I'm just wondering how many people posting here actually ref near or at the ABL level to have the right to have a go at Alison????

Further who else shot down Ben Spiers before the biggest game in many seasons... Anyone that watched it saw that he held his own and showed he will be a ref of the future. He held his own with a couple of very senior refs...

Reply #142437 | Report this post


Easier to read  
Years ago

You would hope that no referees would be critising Ali's abilities in any kind of forum like this.

Btw Shooter27, I think you meant everyone was piling it on Jarrod Cresp for the Nth v Nwd game he did with AFilmer and TGraham (who both have a QF). Ben Spiers did referee on the same night the mens game between Wv v Wst with GWeeks and NWieland (again both of whom have QFs).

Reply #142440 | Report this post


Shooter27  
Years ago

yes you are right big guy.... i did mean crespy... great rookie ref that showed what he had to get to the top in the big league...

Spiers is another up and comer too

Reply #142443 | Report this post


Show Time  
Years ago

Actualy if you read correctly I said "I hope Ben Spiers gets a game"

No one said anything bad about him.

Reply #142444 | Report this post


Shooter27  
Years ago

read the one before you... i meant crespy... just typed the wrong name
cresp was being bagged for having the game before he reffed it, but i didn't see to many posts about how well he did after the game...

Reply #142445 | Report this post


Show Time  
Years ago

Oops I was a little slow with my last response.

Also in regards to Buch - she is solid - the only people bitching would be those who have no idea!!!

Not ready for finals though imo

Reply #142446 | Report this post


Shooter27  
Years ago

you cant expect rookies to get finals when there is a log jam towards the top.... it was great to see a few rookies step up and show the powers to be they can handle it in the ABL... the future maybe be starting to look a little brighter

Reply #142449 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

The same person has posted bashing someone multiple times. As a result, they've been blocked and their posts removed.

Reply #142463 | Report this post


Grote 13  
Years ago

hmm did phil know liam was posting during work hours?

Reply #142470 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

phil has working hours??

Reply #142471 | Report this post


Crazy Joe Davola  
Years ago

I think you'll find it wasnt Liam that was banned - one of the mods can back that one up.

Grote 13 - you obviously condone ejecting players at National championships in the last couple of minutes of tight games?

Reply #142487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"daniel deserves a finals game after coming back from some time off"

on that basis, considering he wasnt a highly regarded ref before his time off, would that mean that some under 18 player for div 3 automatically gets a starter role for the Boomers after going on a 6 week drinking holiday with his mates?

positions have to be earned, and you have to demonstrate you have the suitable ability.

hey bitch has done neither. he was totally oput of his depth in the first adelaide thunder game 2 weeks ago (wheelchair), and from all reports i have heard, was out of his depth in a west adelaide mens game a few weeks back.

plenty of better refs out there who deserved a finals gig before the egocentric daniel.

Reply #142511 | Report this post


Grote 13  
Years ago

Crazy Joe Davola - I condone players being ejected at anytime if it is deserved - first minute or last minute of a game.

Why should the time of the game make any difference?

I don't know the full story and only know about it 3rd hand - I just heard that Liam wasn't happy with her.

Reply #142513 | Report this post


Shooter27  
Years ago

Just a question... Anonymous says Daniel doesn't deserve to be back, and the position has to be earnt... Surely the years he has put in to get up in the top 10 makes him deserve his spot upon his return.

Does that mean that Tristan doesn't deserve to be back towards the top again either...

What is the top 10 refs in the state according to people in here...

Reply #142519 | Report this post


IMO Daniel has returned as a better official.
Had a good season which deserves to be rewarded.

Reply #142525 | Report this post


Crazy Joe Davola  
Years ago

Grote 13,

"I condone players being ejected at anytime if it is deserved - first minute or last minute of a game"

Then you have no idea. Basketball is about players being allowed to decide the outcome of the match - we are not here to watch the coaches, umpires or score table officals (they should be "background scenery").

If you want to live in a bubble and think that every game and every moment of a game is just as important as the next then go ref U/10s; where equal playing time and no emphasis on the result is the driving factors.

Common sense should prevail at the top level - especially at games with so much at stake. National Championships involve teams preparing for up to 6 months of the year for one shot at getting it right on the day.

If this incident involved some kind of fighting/physical contact then, yes, the result should be some kind of serious consequence. But this was NOT the case - the first sign of physical contact was when the UMPIRE initiatied.

You dont assess tech fouls to a 15 yr old kid at a National Championship because you continued to ignore him when he asked for an explanation of a call that was, to everyone in the stadium, quite dubious (maybe you didnt know the answer yourself Alison?). You certainly then dont make it worse by ejecting him from the game because he expresses his displeasure at being grabbed on the arm while he was walking AWAY the aformentioned offical (this was done by the male umpire).

Reply #142531 | Report this post


Grote 13  
Years ago

I didnt say you umpire every minute of a game the same, BUT having said that if a player deserves to be ejected then they should be - even if it has an impact on the game. It's not the referees fault that someone loses it - to what ever level they did. I think if as you say teams prepare for 6 months the first thing a coach should be teaching them is to play to the whistle. There are the right and wrong ways & times to approach a referee about a call that was made. The referee isn't there to be your rule tutor during the game, wait till a quarter time break or even end of the game.

Its people like you that are causing referee numbers to continue to drop then your the first one to have a whinge because there aren't experienced referees around - guess what you are part of the problem and not the solution.

You seem to be advocating for "common sense" in your mind - perhaps in that little mind you don't want umpires at all, is that the perfect world - then no one will be ejected will you be happy with that?

Reply #142580 | Report this post


Crazy Joe Davola  
Years ago

Grote 13,

That's a typical reponse by someone who only sees in "black and white" and can not apply common sense to dynamic situations.

It is YOUR kind that that causes frustration in coaches, players and umpires (the better ones that is, who are sick of seeing cavalier "tech happy" umpires) because you hide behind rules and absolutes, when basketball is such a dynamic environment that involves "shade of grey".

To you, anyone that is critical to a referee is immediately part of "the problem" - when learning from these situations, and ensuring they dont happen again would be more beneficial for all then "sweeping it under the carpet" and coming up with excuses.

But that's YOUR types style... raising a valid point is suddenly driving every potential referee away from the game - how is that perfect little bubble that you live in going?

Allow me to retort:

"It's not the referees fault that someone loses it - to what ever level they did."

No its not their fault, but you would think that an offical, that has any understanding of what is at stake and is confident in the call they made, would think that helping to "defuse" an emotional situation with a brief explanation (e.g "you didnt have position #15") would be a better idea than ignoring everyone else in the building and making the whole situation worse.

Instead, her response was to issue a technical on the player - which stopped the game for as much time as offering the player a quick response. If any one "lost it" as you put it, it was the umpire.

"I think if as you say teams prepare for 6 months the first thing a coach should be teaching them is to play to the whistle"

MEMO TO ALL COACHES; start to devise drills at training that involve game simulations that only stop at the sound of a whistle. This must be done before skill development, game tactics, conditioning etc. Do you realise how silly that sounds?

Of course coaches should make it clear to players to focus on what they can control (their own play) rather than what they cant (umpiring, crowd distractions). But does that immediately mean that all coaches and players that seek clarification on a call during an emotionally charged ending to an important game are suddenly incapable of "playing to the whistle"? Again, here is YOUR types' "your either with us or against us" style coming through that chooses to ignore that some situations will result in a different reponse than others (e.g. if this call happened in the first minute of the game there probably wouldnt have been the incedent that took place). And its this mentality that widens the gap between players/coaches and umpires.

"There are the right and wrong ways & times to approach a referee about a call..... wait till a quarter time break or even end of the game."

The situation occured within a couple of minutes of the end of a game - do you expect the team to wait until the game was lost and then politely ask the offical how they interpreted the call the way they did? Its comments like these that show your complete ignorance for the National Championships environment and that you are out of touch with the nature of basketball at any significant level.

"Perhaps in that little mind you don't want umpires at all, is that the perfect world - then no one will be ejected will you be happy with that?

YES....I would be happy if young players were not ejected at National Championships over siutations which were poorly handled and signicantly worsened by those older then them. But because I want this, according to YOUR types' way of thinking, it immediately meens I want a world with no umpires. What a stupid statement!

Grote 13 - you show yourself to be a small minded person who has no knowledge of the environment which they comment upon...probably because you dont have any ability to accept critical feedback.

Reply #142612 | Report this post


bluey  
Years ago

CJD there is no point in arguing this exact situation I am more coming from general angle - like I said I only know of this third hand - it is obvious that you know this first hand but I am not going say anymore about that.

I agree with you that the game is dynamic but the rules are set - like life. Life is constantly changing does that mean because if I am in a rush I can speed - no I still have to play within the rules.

I guess the problem I have and have seen is that coaches present a bad example to their players by constantly whinging to the umpires and I see this rub off on the players. I know when I was coaching my players knew if they were caught arguing with an umpire they would be subbed off for 5minutes. We lost a close game because of it, but everyone knew the rules - I can tell you it never happened again. I guess I have some feeling for how hard it is for umpires I used to umpire, I was never and a state league umpire but did my fair share of reserves games in my time. Even did some pretty crucial games and ejected a player and a coach in the last 2 minutes of a game - they ended up winning which they probably wouldn't have done if the coach had stuck around.

I don't know what the call was that was being disputed, there might not have been a short easy explanation.

If there is no other appropriate time - get back on with the game to win it than speak to the umpire - MEMO TO YOU: an umpire isn't going to change their call just because you want them to - get on with what you were there to do in the first place win. Ali is obviously the cause of loss to Vic Country and the 9th place - shame on you Ali, what are you a Victorian?

Like I say I don't know exactly what happened, maybe you could answer this for me, the player who was ejected, why was he ejected - 2 tech fouls or just straight DQ foul?

That is it for me CJD - you are right and I am wrong

Reply #142631 | Report this post


FM  
Years ago

The story as I received it all the way in Darwin.

Call was made and the player lost it, throwing half hearted tantrum. Tech had to be called (you couldn't hide the players actions with other forms of game management) therefore the tech was called. Player completely flipped their lid after being T'd up... Other official had to step in and throw the player out.

Without making myself too rich.. I bet A & D spent more time after that game reflecting on what they could do, given a similar set of circumstances, to handle things differently and maybe get a different set of outcomes. I also bet, that player, still hasn't thought about what actions they could take next time, to ensure a better outcome for everyone. Instead player and supporters are still going on about it.

The fact that the other official had to step in, appears to favour A & D more than the player. Most of us officials who have been around for a while will try and let the players win the game 'as mentioned earlier'. However there are limits to this, and obviously on this occassion the player over stepped those limits by a long shot.

Reply #142640 | Report this post


Crazy Joe Davola  
Years ago

bluey,

Firstly, I (and I cant speak for the coaches or supporters) dont blame Alison for the loss - from speaking to the coaches they said that they had their opportunities to win despite the call/no call (feeding the ball inside, possible match up changes etc)

The point I was making was that there is some obvious learnings in this situation, which, on balance, was poorly handled (some will disagree - but usually they are those who werent there to see it first hand).

You said "Life is constantly changing does that mean because if I am in a rush I can speed" - that's true. However, using your example, if a police officer pulled over a man rushing a pregnant wife to hospital do you think he would get a speeding fine? No - because in every situation where rules are applied there are always "shades of grey". In this case, a rigid application of dealing with a player resulted in a far worse situation then using common sense.

FM,

I'm not sure where to start with your post - it has taken me some time to have your second hand account of proceedings translated since it was written in STUPIDITY which I dont speak as extensively as yourself.

But here's some points you may want to consider:

- You said" Player completely flipped their lid after being T'd up... Other official had to step in and throw the player out" - the player did not "flip out", as stated before, he asked "what for", was issued a tech and then was walking AWAY from Alison when the other umpire made the whole situation worse by laying his hands on the player (and then promptly ejecting him for taking exception to being touched).

- You said "I bet A & D spent more time after that game reflecting on what they could do, given a similar set of circumstances, to handle things differently and maybe get a different set of outcomes" - I find that hard to believe they are capable of that when "A" was smiling and giggling with the oposition players as the player was escourted off the court.

Reply #142645 | Report this post


eMotion Clip  
Years ago

I wish Hollywood Mal Cooper were still around to sort out these refs with some assertive communication skills.

He would have given the player his interpretation very quickly and moved the game on. If player continued asking "why?" (highly unlikely) he would have told player "stop been a dickhead and hurry up and play". If player continued; well Mal would have made his call to the bench and the game would be moving on. See that is the key to dealing with players at that level, in a big game. Get the game moving - the player is hardly going to keep arguing with the ball in play are they????????


Tips to refs: sense of urgency, dont waste time, be assertive, communicate.

Holywood Mal you were a legend!

Reply #142650 | Report this post


shooter27  
Years ago

So who are the top 10 refs in SA at this time in order...

Reply #142667 | Report this post


Top Ten!!!  
Years ago

Shooter 27. YOu are no1 my man
after that comes the following.

2.Antrigg from the Port

3.Caveman

4.Luke Smith

5.JB from South - he is good

6.Fella with the big glasses @ Mars

7.J Lawrence

8.Matt Tonkin

9.Glennis with the bright yellow arm band

10.The head ref from M/Vale

Reply #142808 | Report this post


Shooter27  
Years ago

good to see there are still clowns allowed on here

Reply #142822 | Report this post


AdsbyGoogle  
Years ago

AFilmer
AJust
BMcDonald
CTsakalos
DHaebich
GWeeks
JClover
JWilson-Smith
NDurant
NWieland
PHaines
PWelbourn
TGraham
WMaidment

It would seem fair to say that these are top 14 referees. As for what order they are in - who knows!

Reply #142856 | Report this post


wassup  
Years ago

who ever top ten!!! is this is for u

u have no god damn idea who the top ten refs should be for starters if antrigg and j lawerence ever get into the top ten of refs in SA i will quit umpiring for good

second u didnt include AFilmer PWelbourn and NDurant in the top ten so r u on drugs or something u would at least think that most of the refs who got ABL finals would be in the top ten

who ever u r u must have no ideas about umpires in SA because half your top ten dont even have names

Reply #143017 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

That's because it was a joke, wassup! Seriously, sigh...

Reply #143021 | Report this post


Panther  
Years ago

Me being in the top ten is no joke!!! Lol..

Reply #143026 | Report this post




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