What happens though if there is no div 2 teams with less than 33% scoring or 5% winning, but the two GF div 3 teams want to come up? The whole thing falls apart! You are banking on team's sucking, but as soon as the comp get's even there is no way forward!

the relegation is not compolsory - just to keep an eye on teams that are performing badly - in any grade.

that is why I said "subject to basket SA"


it is based on only 10 teams over summer in div 1 and then expanding to 12 over winter - this creates the upward only movement.


the relegation bit is just an add on if req for teams out of there depth.

so if they are all doing well - no need for rel - in fact teams move up

ie
summer winter
div 1 div 1
10 12 (10+ 2 promotions)
div 2 div 2
12 12 (10 left + 2 promotions)
div 3 div 3
12 12 (10 left + 2 promotions)

pas 51 -

"but the two GF div 3 teams want to come up"

they CAN come up - based on 2 moving up - leaving room

this system is really good due to the fact it is cyclic - the form teams from summer are the ones always promoted for the main season and then it heads back to the summer format where teams have to prove their worth by finishing high in their grade.

it rewards FORM - not the club with the most teams

okay - what about after the first season, when div 2 has 12 teams - and there is still no team scoring less than 33% or winning 5%, but two div 3 GF teams want to come up.

One season in, it falls apart.

Ok. What happens if (for example) none of the top three div 2 teams want to be promoted, but the two top div 3s want to be promoted, now you have 10 div 1 teams, 14 div 2 teams and 12 in div 3 etc .. Are you happy with this in your model?
do you have to have some forced promotion/relegation to accommodate this ? I think you have to, as if it is voluntary promotion, you can still end up with a power imbalance ...

the teams would have to understand that they would be promoted if in summer GF - with the 3rd team sitting on the option if one declines.


if the top teams decline - maybe the relegation issue may come into play - but it would only be for div 2 down - so the clubs can all keep their div 1 status

remember the div 1 comp would expand by 2 over the main season.

if the div 3s wanted to come up and no div 2s went up - leaving 12 in div 2, and no team had a less than 5% winning ration - a 'challenge" game would be played between top div 3 team and bottom div 2 - winner through.
second div 3 team would play 2nd to bottom div 2 team in a challenge as well

if they win = through - if not they are where they should be!!!

and yes it may mean that some clubs could have as many as 3 teams per grade.

Sounds fair to me.
Providing Div 3 exists in 6 months.

damage was that div 3 exits or exists ???

So, if it is a voluntary promotion is it also voluntary relegation?
If not, you start with 10 member clubs two get relegated after the end of season and if no Division 2 teams want to be promoted then you are left with 8 teams.
What happens if only one team wants to be promoted? If you have an odd number of teams a Bye-Round has to be incorporated.

a challenge game?
Good to see you've put some thought into this, and arn't just making it up as people expose flaws.

#151978,

Here is the original proposal. It still stacks up very well some years on from its genesis.

Summer Season (Grading Season)
" 15 weeks + 1 week finals (currently 13 weeks)
" Groups of 6
o Qualifying Group A (1,2,3,4,5,6)
o Qualifying Group B (7,8,9,10,11,12)
o Qualifying Group C (13,14,15,16,17,18) etc.
o Lowest/ Lowest 2 groups can be:
§ 6, 7 teams (1 grade)
§ 8 (4+4), 9 (5+4), 10 (5+5), 11 (6+5)
" Seeding determination
o Results from previous age group 2 years ago
o Member clubs guaranteed Group A or Group B if requested
o First teams from non-member clubs who were not represented 2 years ago, automatically start in Group D.
" Weeks 1-5
o 6 teams (1 round, 90% of competitions will be this format)
o 4 teams (1 round, 1st v 4th /2nd v 3rd , W v W, L v L)
o 5 teams (1 round with bye game)
o 7 teams (1 round with bye game, extra round needed)
o If team pulls out, re-draw only if format changes (i.e. no re-draws for 6 teams dropping to 5 teams which would be 90% of cases)
o At end, top 2 placings are promoted to higher group, lower 2 placings are relegated to lower group, others (generally middle 2 placings) stay in the same group
o If withdrawals then every team below moves up a place for next 5 weeks
" Weeks 6-10
o Same as above
o Promotion, relegation at end
" Weeks 11-15 (new calendar year)
o Same as above
o Promotion, relegation at end
" Week 16
o 1v2, 3v4, 5v6 in each group. 1v2 games are counted as grand finals.
o Winner of Week 16 games gets the higher seeding for main season

Winter Season (Championship Season)
" 21 weeks + 3 weeks finals (currently 26 weeks)
" Groups of 8
o A Grade (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8)
o A Reserve Grade (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16)
o B Grade (17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24) etc
o Lowest/Lowest 2 grades can be:
§ 8, 9, 10, 11 teams (1 grade)
§ 12 (6+6), 13 (7+6), 14 (7+7), 15 (8+7)
" Week 1-21
o 6 teams (4 rounds, 1 week off)
o 7 teams (3 rounds with a bye game)
o 8 teams (3 rounds. 80% of grades will be this format)
o 9 teams (2 rounds + 3 games, uneven competition with a bye game)
o 10 teams (2 rounds + 3 games, uneven competition)
o 11 teams (2 rounds with a bye game, extra Sunday game to make 22 rounds)
" Weeks 22-24
o 4 team finals system (1vs2,3vs4;L(1v2)vsW(3v4);W(1v2)vsW(Prelim Final)
o Week 23 5vs6 and 7vs8 to determine seedings for 2 years time

Advantages
" Each team will soon find its level of play. Closer games, less "blow outs" leads to better competition. Better competition leads to better retention rates (i.e. less players quitting half way through season/year)
" The best play the best. This leads to better results at National Championship level.
" The strong get stronger but the weak also get stronger through more appropriate competition levels
" The strong will not feed off the weak, because of the following by-law
o In any 12 month period, no club may accept more than # players who have transferred from other member clubs
o This may or may not be extended to include non-member clubs if so desired
" Re-draws happen only 3 times per year, and there are definite rules regarding them. This looks and is more professional administratively.
" There is no gray area with seeding at the start of the year. If teams are in wrong grade they will soon end up in the right grade through their level of play
" Teams who start as low as 24th seed may end up in A Grade if they are good enough.
" More games, more revenue may lead to lower costs?
" Able to be modified in the future to include North and South lower divisions if so decided.
" Easy determination of State Championship qualifications
" 85% or competitions will be groups of 6 and 8 which are inherently easier to program than groups of 9, 10, 11, 12. There will be far less uneven competitions than at present.

Disadvantages
" Tight timeline for re-draw at the end of week 5 and 16. However this is no different to the break between current summer and winter season.
" 1 extra week of games.
" I'm sure there are some. Write them down, and modify this proposal to solve them.

The biggest problem people have with Pro/Rel IMO is that the lesser clubs will not get a crack at better competition. Players develop as a result of the level of their environment etc.

On these points:

o Results from previous age group 2 years ago
o Member clubs guaranteed Group A or Group B if requested

These points are key IMO. IE every yr you get games, over summer, against the better kids but in Winter you play in a group most appropriate to your level.

Wouldn't this model almost be a "no brainer" in terms of doing???

"interesting"

reading the plan - the member clubs (small or large) always keep a place in div 1 if they want it.
So the "lesser" clubs will always have a crack at the top comp.

any possible relegation or 'challenge' games play in div 2,3,4 etc - so if a team is good enough they will make the grade.

it was proposed every -

summer 10 member

winter 10 member + 2 promoted

then cycles

----------------------------

after many years of involvement - once one humbles their ego I can assure you - one has a more enjoyable season playing in a grade where you get equal opposition - no flogging or being flogged week in week out.

with that system proposed you can move up - legitimately

there was no relegation from div 1