lockstock
Years ago

NBA MVP Race

The regular season is over, and we already have Garnett as DPOTY, Ginobili as sixth man, and Durant is a lock for ROTY. The MVP race is one of the most exciting in seasons, but it pretty much comes down to 4. Here they are, in my order, and my short write up on them:

4. Lebron James: this guy is a freak - but he knows it a little too much sometimes. To put up 30ppg, 7.9rpg, 7.2apg & 1.84spg, and be fourth on an MVP list shows just how strong the NBA is these days, after what many considered to be a low point in the league in the late 90s. However, he still doesn't play defence like he should and could. The only thing not putting him above 4, other than that, is that I can't put him in front of the next 3.

3. Chris Paul: I once said (forget to whom?) if Chris Paul wins MVP I'll pay someone $100, and now I'm scared. This guy has put up 21.1ppg, 11.6apg and 2.7spg whilst shooting .488% from the field, as a PG. Now considered the best PG in the league over Nash, he has shown his ability to take over a game when needed and dominated every pg in the league, bar Deron Williams (who will be the no 2 PG in the league next year, and maybe no 1). However, IMO if you take him out of the NO lineup you still have an all star West, an former all star Peja, a monster in Chandler and a good supporting cast. He'll win one eventually (geez it hurts me to say that).

2. Kobe Bryant: This guy singlehandedly kept LA in the West's elite before Pau came over (they have a good supporting cast, but should not have been where they were), putting up 28.3ppg, 5.4apg, 6.3rpg and 1.84spg. These numbers are down on recent years, due to the fact, IMO, that Phil Jackson had the same talk he had with MJ in the early 90s, something like "Kobe, if you're going to win a championship without Shaq, you're going to have to start making your teammates a lot better". And that he has done. And he is the best player come crunch time in the league (bar, maybe, Manu). I would love to see him win it just because I think it is his last big chance (before Lebron starts racking them up, and CP), and it would be a travesty to have this guy never win an MVP in his career. LA to win it all IMO.

1. Kevin Garnett: Everyone has probably seen this written a thousand times elsewhere, but he has completely transformed every facet of the Boston Celtics, from belief, competitiveness, defensive intensity, team camaraderie, crowd numbers, dag nam it I bet even the Cheerleaders cheer louder than ever. His numbers aren't spectatular, 18.8ppg, 9.2rpg, & 1.3bpg, but that almost makes his case more compelling. A mid-season injury may hurt his chances, but IMO he has to win it, as I personally have never seen a single player transform a franchise so much, and that includes MJ, Lebron, Shaq, etc.

oh, and I had my fingers crossed when I said Paul would never win it, promise.

Topic #15545 | Report this topic


Phizzer  
Years ago

David Robinson and Larry Bird transformed their respective franchises quite dramatically in one season, but it's hard to argue with your points on Kevin.

Remember when Barkley beat out Jordan for MVP? It was based on the improvement of the Suns that season compared to the last, hence him being so valuable to that team. Was a shock at the time, but in hindsight, right call I think.

Apart from Jordan, who else has won DPOTY and MVP in the same season?

One guy won ROTY and MVP in the same season, anyone know who?

Slightly off topic but I really want to know, with all those incredible stats in last few years, who was the last guy to get a quadruple double in an NBA regular season game?

Reply #183477 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

Good discusion Lockstock.

Garnett was 36th in the league in blocks and 23rd in steals this year.

With those two stats he wins the DPOTY?

To me it looks like there wa a meeting and they voted on the MVP and then remembered they had to give Garnett something for turning Boston around.

Although if you give me Ray Allen and Paul Pierce with Cassell of the bench i reckon i could turn my social team around too.


Reply #183480 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

Phizzer - did Wilt win ROTY and MVP? Robinson the last quadruple double? As for DPOTY & MVP - Duncan?

Good point Kent - seems everyone had Garnett as a lock for DPOTY but why?

I just think that Garnett turned his team around in more ways than wins. He changed the culture singlehandedly..

Reply #183482 | Report this post


Lloyd Braun  
Years ago

Garnett didnt have much of a culture to change.. Only 3 or 4 guys from last years team are still their!!

Seriously what more does Kobe need to do? There is no better player on the planet right now!

The Lakers will probably with the Title this year, why? Because of Kobe! Shouldnt that be enough?

Reply #183484 | Report this post


Bizzy  
Years ago

Kent, I saw an article somewhere that discussed opponents shooting percentage against Garnett and every play that come's up against him has a lower shooting percentage than usual, even though he doesn't lead the blocks, rebounds etc but the amount of shots he changes and his actual defence is phenomenal.

Reply #183487 | Report this post


tmagz03  
Years ago

Everyone go on Espn and read Bill Simmons' article on the MVP race. I agreed with every single thing he said, he is pure genious.

IMO kobe shouldnt get it. The lakers were always good during the regular season...they became great when gasol came to town.

1) Garnett
2) CP3
3) Kobe
4) Lebron

Garnett's stats arent that great for a reason!!! Its because the celtics would beat teams in 2 and a half quarters, allowing Garnett to rest and prevent himself from injury. He is the driving force of that team and deserves the MVP.

Reply #183494 | Report this post


tmagz03  
Years ago

As for the DPOTY just because garnett doesnt get a lot of blocks and steals doesn't make him an average defender.

I recall Charles Barkley once saying "just because you get a lot of steals doesn't mean your a good defender". Its the defensive presence that Garnett brings. Good players dont score a lot on him. They hold teams under 80 or 90 regularly. They must be doing something right defensively.

Reply #183496 | Report this post


mr clutch  
Years ago

Battier should have got it. He's been the best perimeter defender in the league for a while now, but he was also the leader for houston, unlike Garnett he didnt have the best defensive assistant coach in the league in Tom Thibodeau, who't teams have finished in the top 10 in team defense 14 out of his 17 seasons. Not all the credit can go to garnett.

Reply #183499 | Report this post


Ben Fitz  
Years ago

Check out the Mavs Hornets game 2 boxscores for your MVP.

Reply #183500 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

Ben Fitz he never did shit like 40 and 20 in the regular though.

KG wont get it.

Lebron wont get it.

2 man races between KB24 and Chris Paul.

Reply #183503 | Report this post


Lloyd Braun  
Years ago

tmagz03 - Bill Simmons has the blinders on regarding this one. Firstly, he's a massive Boston fan (so he already dislikes the lakes) Secondly he had Paul Pierce @ number 10? Was he ever not going to put the Big Ticket at number one?

Reply #183505 | Report this post


Kriss  
Years ago

I Thought Willis Reed won MVP and ROY. Didn't Oscar Robertson win ROY over chamberlain?

Reply #183510 | Report this post


bryant  
Years ago

i say kobe should win it. there is no way garnett is the mvp. he has been good but his numbers are down from other years. if he really was the mvp this year, then why hasnt he wo it in the previous years?

Reply #183515 | Report this post


tmagz03  
Years ago

i never knew he was diehard boston fan so i guess it could provoke some bias. I had garnett at no. 1 before i read his column anyway though.

If CP3 got it i would agree with it also, his numbers have been astonishing. First two games in the play offs and he is averaging 33 and 14?? thats crazy.

Garnett just has so much passion for the game, you can tell he has as much love and desire for the game of basketball more then anyone else out there.

It could potentially be any of the big 4. This is the closest MVP race ive ever witnessed in my lifetime.

Reply #183516 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

tmagz who cares what chris paul does in the playoffs it doesnt count and should detirmine shit all.

Bryant For MVP.

Reply #183518 | Report this post


M Dizzle  
Years ago

Seems we have a testy die hard kobe fan who can't stand to hear anyone else's name mentioned in the MVP discussion. Everybody knows that playoff performances do not count towards the regular season MVP but maybe tmagz is alluding to the fact that his last 2 games are an indication of what he is capable of and his value to his team - he has been doing it all year long you know.

Kobe wins it for me, I think people are too quick to take away his achievements and either devalue him, or hand them off to others on his team. Top of the West and if you look Gasol played in alot less than half of those games, and Kobe started 82. Kobe has made Gasol better not the other way around

Reply #183520 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

M Dizzle Of Corse They Dont Count.. I Was Just Letting Our Friend Here On Thaat Little Tip.. Chris Paul Is Exploding But Bryant Gets It For Regular..

Reply #183523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
CP3
Kobe has done well but chris paul is so valuable
and kobe-for-mvp u r so one eyed far out
cant u just aknowlege that chris paul deserves it
get a job

Reply #183524 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

Anon I Just Said His Exploding In The Playoffs.. I Think Thats Recongnising Him..

Reply #183525 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

"i say kobe should win it. there is no way garnett is the mvp. he has been good but his numbers are down from other years. if he really was the mvp this year, then why hasnt he wo it in the previous years?"

Because he wasnt on the best team in the league, and please people stop mentioning numbers, they aren't the ultimate factor in any award.

Simmons isn't having a bias opinion. He is a professional and gives very, VERY valid points as to why he has KG number 1...how can anyone say that KG, Kobe and Paul CANT or SHOULDNT win it...either of those 3 is fine, and Paul Pierce at number 10 - whats the problem with taht - think you'll find him inside the top 10 in most MVP ranking sites...its only bias when people claim theres no way this guy can win...or if this guy doesnt win its a joke

Reply #183526 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

Every new word doesn't require a capital letter...

Reply #183527 | Report this post


the_champ33  
Years ago

Champ selects

Chris Paul

Kobe close runner-up

Reply #183529 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

Not Unless There's Concealed and Amusing Subtleties Enclosed

Reply #183530 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

=] I Enjoy Writing Like This.

Its All About Opinions, And Mine Is That Its Easily A Two Man Race. CP3 And KB24.

Reply #183531 | Report this post


Lloyd Braun  
Years ago

Jules - Are you honestly saying journalists are never biased? He had Pierce ahead of Amare, McGrady and Howard!!!!

Reply #183532 | Report this post


M Dizzle  
Years ago

Believe me, tmagz is well aware that the regular season MVP is only awarded on regular season play. I was simply stating as to why he may of alluded to CP3s playoff performances so far. Did you even read my post, or was it ineligible as only the start of each sentence was denoted with a capital letter?....hehe

Reply #183533 | Report this post


jules  
Years ago

Llyod - did you read the explanations or just the list...he makes some very strong points - and like I said - EVERY MVP rankings site has Pierce in the top 10. Why wouldn't you? Hes the leading scorer on the best team in the league?

Reply #183535 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

Lloyd makes a good point - Amare, Howard and TMac are the MVPs of their teams and definietly more worthy of MVP candidacy than Pierce

Reply #183536 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

Howard Is The One Were You Go - WHAT THE!. Should Defintly Be In The Top 10 IMO.

Reply #183537 | Report this post


lethal5  
Years ago

Kriss, I think Oscar won ROTY over Jerry West. Also think Wes Unseld won ROTY & MVP in same season, not Willis Reed.... i think?

Reply #183541 | Report this post


JV Coach  
Years ago

How come people will come out and say "Judge Kobe on what he's done this season, not his career (It's not a lifetime achievement award)" when the argument of whether Kobe should receive the MVP because he hasn't won one before comes up, but when people talk about Kevin Garnett, people are more than happy to say "He shouldn't win it, his numbers are down from other seasons."

Either a players' career comes into the decision or it doesn't.

Reply #183542 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

Career doesnt Come Into It At All.. When People Say Kobe Hasnt Won Won A MVP He Deserves To Win It For That Reason.. I Think People Are Meaning If He Doesnt Win This Year, Doubt He Will Ever Get Another Oppurtunity So Huge.. People Will Feel Sorry For Him For The Fact He Has Been The Best Player On The Universe For 2 or 3 Strait Years And Never Mon An Mvp.. Makes Sence..

Reply #183544 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

That's irrelevant. Just like the argument that Nash couldn't threepeat as though it would create some sort of "most awesome player ever" precedent.

Reply #183548 | Report this post


I dont feel sorry for Kobe. Hard to feel for him when he's already won 3 championships and making 20 mil a year

Reply #183552 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

At the moment I can't really seperate CP3, Kobe and Garnett.

Kobe has taken the Lakers to the elite of the Western Conference without his starting centre for the majority of the season. Bynum has played only 35 games. The major trade deadline trade for Pau Gasol has only resulted in 25 games being played by Pau. Kobe has well and truly carried the Lakers this year.

Would CP3's stats be as good if Chandler went down for a the same length of time as Bynum and David West only playing 25 games???

I guess it comes down to terminology and who is the most valuable to their team. The Hornets without Paul are lottery bound. Chandler and West ain't the players they are today with Paul and Stoj could never carry the Hornets.

What Garnett has done for the Celtics is beyond belief. He had taken a broken down, disheartened franchise and made it a contender. I'm not sure if Kobe joined the Celtics could of achieved what Garnett has done.

I'm also not too sure if it was CP3 joining the Celtics if it would of made a happy Paul Pierce (remember the trade was prior to the season and Paul was injured last season) or if Ray Allen would of agreed to the trade.

End of the day I'm leaning towards Garnett, but any of the 3 are worthy of this years MVP and I won't be disappointed with whoever they choose.

Reply #183560 | Report this post


TC  
Years ago

Kobe to win the MVP because he led the Lakers to the top of the West. KG in a close second, because of the games he missed and the relative ease that Boston had in the East. KG's defense has been amazing and had an incredible impact on the rest of the team (PP has easily played the best D of his career this season)and he rightfully has been rewarded with DPOTY.

For what its worth I think KG will get the NBA Finals MVP.

Reply #183568 | Report this post


Kriss  
Years ago

For what it's worth i think KB24 will take the title this year. Sometimes (although they wouldn't admit it) I think they 'reward' players with an MVP if they have been around the mark for the last two years or so.

Can anyone find a valid description of just what the MVP is. is it MVP of the league, team...

Reply #183577 | Report this post


mr clutch  
Years ago

For everyone saying that kobe doesnt deserve it because he has great players around him, they were a really good team BEFORE Gasol, and everyone had them picked as a boarderline playoffs team before the season started - just like the Hornets. The stellar play of Bynum was a reason for that success, but that was very much a result of Kobe making him better.

Kobe will win it without a doubt, the league will pick him because he has never won one in his career and he's a veteran, wheras paul and lebron are young and will win it in the future. Garnett won't win it because his stats are down eventhough he could easily put up MVP stats if he took the shots and minutes that Kobe and Paul had. I don't agree with this it is just the way the league usually does it.

Reply #183584 | Report this post


billo  
Years ago

Phizzer, pretty sure Hakeem and his Dream Shake won DPOY and MVP in the same season (as well as finals MVP if I recall).

Reply #183586 | Report this post


um does anyone remember how bad the Lakers were pre Gasol when bynum was out. Kobe didnt lead anyone. He had the worlds biggest whinge and now hes on a good team again and now everyone wants to give him an MVP. Boo i say. I hope kobe goes down and they win without him. (which they probably would, being such a deep team!)

And i dont know why more people arent voting Lebron!?!?! what did he do wrong exactly? Shoot too many shots on his woeful, woeful team? Dribble the ball too much, because if he didn't, Larry Hughes or Damon Jones would have to? Man, when Lebron went out, cavs were the worst team ever. The worst shooter in the league (Hughes) the worst decision maker in the league (Gooden) and the slowest man in the league (Big Z)!!!

Reply #183589 | Report this post


Phizzer  
Years ago

For those playing at home, I believe Wes Unseld won MVP and ROTY in the same season, 1968-69. After Wilt did it in 1959-1960.

And quadruple double, I think no-one has come close since The Admiral in 1994.

Reply #183590 | Report this post


twenty four  
Years ago

Kind of agree with ELG there. Kobe needed help just to be competitive. Without a big man, Lakers went on a bad run, and there were plenty of people saying that the season may have ended with Bynum going down. Plus, I'd say that having Odom, Bynum/Gasol, Fisher and some decent guys off the bench isn't too bad of a supporting cast.

Then there is also the fact that all the Lakers fans on here were telling us how good their depth was earlier in the season.

Was it better than NO's? Probably not, but you can't say that Tyson Chandler, David West (no matter how well he played this year) and Peja were anything out of the ordinary.

mr clutch, how exactly did Kobe make Bynum better? If Kobe had his way, Bynum wouldn't have even been in LA. All the work that was put into Andrew by Kareem made him better, Kobe's on court play wasn't anything special....

Reply #183599 | Report this post


mr clutch  
Years ago

'kobe's on court play wasn't anything special' are you daft? of course Kobe is a gun and his on court play is special, everone knows that. Im pretty sure that if any team in the league lost the second best player on their team they would be in a lot of trouble. Ginobili, West, Amare, Pierce, Carmello/Iverson, Kidd/Howard ... the list goes on - all teams including new orleans would be a lot worse off.

Chandler, West and Peja are some pretty damn good 2,3,4 players. Better than Bynum/Gasol (they havent played together this season and likely wont for the playoffs) Odom and Fisher, so dont agree with you and certainly wouldn't say they're 'nothing out of the ordinary'.

If you actually bothered to watch some games and not just look at the assist totals on box scores you'd realise that the majority of Bynums points came from easy buckets from passes directly from Kobe or pass sequences initiated by Kobe. I'm not knocking Bynum i think he'll be great but it was only after he started putting up big numbers that they decided to give him the ball in one on one post up situations, in which he was inconsistant.

Reply #183601 | Report this post


twenty four  
Years ago

I think you severly misunderstood my comment on Kobe's play. So, you're saying that if it weren't for Kobe, Bynum wouldn't have been as good as he was?

I'm not saying that Kobe should've been winning every game without a big man, but to say that he carried the Lakers by himself isn't true. He had lots of good help, then when Bynum went down, the team had a horrible run. Then Gasol came in, oh my, they were good again.

Reply #183602 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

List of quadruple doubles, and near misses

My MVP vote is Chris Paul.

Reply #183613 | Report this post


Kriss  
Years ago

Just on that list Issac i believe if they were keeping records of quad doubles in Wilts day i would say he would have gptten a few in the season he led the league in assists.

I don't think blocks were recorded until after wilt retired or shortly before

Reply #183615 | Report this post


rotate on this  
Years ago

CP3 for me . or maybe thats only cause i want my hundred bills from mr lockstock .

Reply #183623 | Report this post


Run TMC  
Years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong - but typically the MVP comes from one of the teams who finishes in the top one or two of their conference which is why I think LeBron wont get it (and also why Kobe didn't win it a couple of years ago when he carried a shocking team to the playoffs). So this year it is between Kobe, CP3 and Garnett. My gut feeling is that CP3 wont get it because he has a couple of things going against him: NO gets less exposure and he is still young (even though those things SHOULDN'T matter).

So maybe Kobe gets it because he hasn't won it yet (would he be the best player to never have one MVP if he doesn't win it before he retires?)

Or does Garnett get it for rekindling Celtic Pride? (would that make him the worst ever winner based on individual statistics only?)

I like one of Bill Simmons' categories which asks how well the team would have gone if you swapped that player for an average player (eg swap CP3 for Devin Harris). In that case you would probably say that LeBron wins closely followed by CP3 and Garnett then Kobe last.

For me I think CP3 should win but I think Kobe will, with Garnett second, CP3 third and LeBron fifth.

Reply #183631 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

dammit

Reply #183640 | Report this post


Lebron 5th now? It seems you HAVE to be in a 50 win team to even be in contention for MVP these days.

hmm lets see... Lebron plays 75 games this year. the 7 games he is out... Cavs go 0-7!!! Is that even a surprise? So if he plays in 82 games, they win 5 of those 7, is Lebron an MVP? what a stupid award

Reply #183641 | Report this post


Run TMC  
Years ago

Should have been LeBron at fourth.

Just out of interest tho, who should get fifth?

Amare, Manu, Howard?

Reply #183650 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

Amare IMO

Reply #183655 | Report this post


Kobe-for-MVP  
Years ago

49 and 10 from Bryant today, Massive!. Pitty its irrelevent. Howard for 5th IMO.

Reply #183710 | Report this post




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