I love the present transfer rule. Teaches kids (and their fickle parents) to work hard and not quit as soon as the going gets tough. Also, teaches them to work through any issues rather than take the easy option.

It also helps the competition, as there are forfeits and withdrawals when transfers weaken teams. 1 or 2 movements can seriously impact upon any team over winter when sickness and injuries are highest.

They can always move at the end of the season if they want.

It is also child's play when you compare it to transfer rules in say US colleges. There you have to sit out a year when you transfer.

This is one of the best decisions made in recent times, well done BSA.

Totally disagree with you.

Also switch "unhappy juniors" for "unhappy parents" as it is 9 times out of ten a parent with an over inflated view of their child that is forcing the kid to make the move.

Now kids ARE locked to a club rather than moving half way through a season just because they are not getting the court time they expected. It also serves to take pressure off clubs & coaches who may be threatened with player x or y walking to another club just because the cards may not be falling there way.

There is also the other side of the coin that the kids that have put up their hand and done all the hard work are not then just shoved down the bench when the next superstar kid whose court time has been reduced by 0.38 seconds per game decides they want to play for the coach who promises the earth.

It makes the kids, but more importantly the parents, give more thought as to what club is best going to meet their needs for an upcoming season.

One club in particular has made an art form of wooing kids from one of the "Big two" clubs. The last two they tried to sway had to make up their minds before the season started, not half way through. After this weekend I dare say one set of those parents are now wishing they made the move before the season; Tuff!


Great rule.

I thought the rule would lead to a large number of transfers between seasons but there seem to have been fewer transfers than in previous years.

At least it stops the knee jerk reaction to coach/division/team placement at the start of the season that often gets sorted out in a few weeks.

Clubs are offering letters of acceptance? I would have thought if you had a letter in your hands then you had a commitment from that club.

I dont need to know what club, but what age group are we talking about?

U16's by any chance? If so your not alone.

I think there are two things to keep in mind.

First is what is best for the child.

The second kind of goes hand in hand with the first and that is what sort of reputation you have from gained by shifting clubs?

If you have shifted to 3 different clubs in three 3 years then you really have to take into consideration if your child is being helped or hindered by so many moves.

Is a coach going to put time and effort into a "club hopper"

Its only my opinion but I think both questions need equal consideration.

Also the hassle involved with two siblings at two different clubs. The logistics can be overwhelming.

"they should be up front with possible team placings rather than simply mis-lead"

Cant argue on that point.

Agree with all of the above, issue for my lad is 9-10 kids in his team, Coach has favs, only Div 2, supposed to get fair court time as it is a club policy - but it is not happening, Coaches need more education about this and that it is enjoyment for the KIDS, not the coaches egos and WINNING at all costs, kids become disheartened, lose their confidence, no court time or limited court time also means no improvement = disgruntled parents and kids = may sit out the rest of the season then move.

Agree with all of the above, issue for my lad is 9-10 kids in his team, Coach has favs, only Div 2, supposed to get fair court time as it is a club policy - but it is not happening, Coaches need more education about this and that it is enjoyment for the KIDS, not the coaches egos and WINNING at all costs, kids become disheartened, lose their confidence, no court time or limited court time also means no improvement = disgruntled parents and kids = may sit out the rest of the season then move.

Too many,

You should move you kid to social basketball - kids who play district want to win. Some are happy to play less minutes but be part of a winning team. Either that or ask to move down a division where they can then be big fish in small pond! Aother kid, as per the above, would be happy to take their place and play in a tougher competition.

More info please #185150

#185161,

I agree with what you say. However it is a different scenario to what 'Too many' presented. They were complaining about court time and playing to win. They have a social basketball philosophy and that is where they belong!

#185168,

They may very well be the ones not getting a senior gig - but don't you think you're getting ahead of yourself; planning for your senior sport entertainment (cos lets face it, that's what it will be for 99% of players) when you're in U16's? It also states in other threads how many kids have given it all away by then.

I agree that the low minutes juniors should consider moving to other clubs - this may well give them more court time and quite possibly help to even up the competition. Maybe if more did it then some of the state champs competitions would be between more than 2 or 3 clubs.

You can transfer between the summer and winter seasons if you are unhappy with what happens over summer. It's not THAT hard is it?

current rule - made by association and clubs

rule = benefits them

doesn't benefit players

but i understand - too many individuals think it is on their terms

Doesn't matter. Either way, it's a ridiculous idea. NEXT!

Im in favour of it. Keep the rule.

Why didn't you move at the end of the summer season?

So move at the end of the season, and let the club know why. That way, the club can then do what is necessary to make sure it doesn't happen again. If they chose to not do anything about it you are better of at anotrher club. But moving during the season is not the answer anyway, all that teaches kids is to quit.

Chances are that it is the individual coach's ego and not the clubs position.

Not sure what you mean about offers? If a coach offers you a spot in the team or X amount of court time, then you should be wary in the first place.

Again, you are nor being stopped from changing clubs, just do it at the end of the season when it won't cause clubs to lose entire teams, and make every player have their draw changed

And, I would not quit without giving my 2 weeks notice and working to the best of my ability during those 2 weeks. Therefore leaving those people who rely on my work to maintain there normal lives at risk of being put out.

See out the season, write to your club and let them know exactly what was said and promised and why you are leaving.

Again, if you can elaborate without naming names it might help. ie promised div 1 and put in div 2 etc.

Sorry 'Spirit' your analogy lost me.....juniors are not paid...their financial livelihoods and those in the team are not at stake..... 2 week rule....that would be nice. Took us 3 weeks to get our child's clearance through.

fox 82,I was asked if I would quit my job if i didn't get a promotion that was promoised. I responded that I would follow the correct procedure as otherwise it would impact on other people's lives.

No, but when a couple of kids leave a club in one age group during the season, this puts pressure on pulling kids up from lower division teams. The ultimate consequence is that a team in pulled out of the competition mid season. Therefore as we have seen with the U16 girls 3 and 4 competition, there are not enough teams in the div 4 comp, so they get put together. Arnie must therefore use hours of unnecessary work to get this done. Meaning her can't use that time to do other work, ie he is doing more overtime and not getting to go home at his normal hours. Plus now all the teams have to change there games, often resulting in forfiets becuase somebody doesn't find out in time.

"and is that the individual kid's concern?"

Probably not, but administrators cannot make decisions based upon the optimum needs of every player. It is not in my best interests to pay income tax, but I do because society benefits. Same principle here. Even one transfer mid season can disrupt hundreds of other people. That is the intent of the by-law. There will be some side effects but the overall benefit outweighs it. I know I am showing my conservative political leanings but I think this is the best way to describe why I agree with the by-law. I sympathise with your situation if you have been wronged, but use it to teach your child a lesson. Tough it out, don't quit. Then move at the end of the season.

Yes the lesson is that some people/organisations are dishonest and act deceitfully.

I never said it was a panacea, just that I agree with it because it solves major problems with the competition. Yes it creates some newer ones but the overall effect is positive.

Quitting is a poor alternative. It teaches the wrong lesson to your child. Suck it up, tough it out then move.

Or just like the last election throw your club's admin out at the ballot box (ie your AGM) or simply walk at the end of the season and tell them why. If it is as bad as you say you will not be the only one.

Again I sympathise and on the surface it sounds like the club has acted improperly but there are better alternatives, ones which do not impact upon lots of other people.

I can only think of 1 club in recent history that has sent out letters to kids.

If you joined the club up the hill on the promise of a letter then you made your bed, now go lay in it.

Maybe parents should stop getting ahead of themselves and stop managing their kids "careers" and just let them play.

"Let them play" yes please thats all we want!!

As far as I'm aware, no club sent out letters between summer and winter. So you have had the opportunity to change clubs after seeing the writing on the wall in summer.

And all rules can't be made to benefit every individual in all situations. If you want too you can write to BSA to ask for an exemption. Or better still you can name and shame the club and coach here.

But you have chosen to do neither, so I would suggest that you have no prof other than a vauge conversation which you probably initiated.

If it is the club up the hill then there was a lot of critisism on here when the issue of letters first came up.

I tend to agree with girl power if it is the club in question, becuase it would seem they threw prommises (and letters) around like free lollys in an effort to entice people to travel so far away.

Im glad the new rule is in place. It should make parents think long and hard before making a move.

To all that have received these letters and feel that they (or their offspring) have been hard done by - why don't you go to your club's ombudsman? Or if it's affecting your lifestyle so much you should take it up with the club development officer.

So what happened when you took it up with the club president/committee? Or did the letter say "in the Div 1/2 squad"?

Spirit 'I was asked if I would quit my job if i didn't get a promotion that was promoised. I responded that I would follow the correct procedure as otherwise it would impact on other people's lives'.

Please! Putting the guilt trip on a child...that just teaches kids that it is okay for people to walkover them. By the way my child did 'suck it up' for two seasons before applying for a clearance. Fault - wasn't the club, wasn't the coach - it was some whinging parents! Honestly, was it the right decision to move on.......ABSOLUTELY YES!!!!!!! My child is now in an environment where kids (and parents) are there for fun, improving their skills and hence their game, listen to and appreciate the coach and each other. Recipe for success!

PS I do not agree with the new rule. Even when a child asks for a clearance between seasons, clubs have the right to 'hold up' the clearance process for 28 days. This rule should absolutely be removed. If the child has waited a season or two before deciding they need to move on, they should not then have to wait 28 days...therefore taking up to 4 weeks off from playing the next season. This is punishing a child who has already had a difficult time and decision to make.

fox82,

Not at all. It teaches them that you can't back out once you make a decision. If, as a parent, you allowed a club to continue this behaviour before moving for 2 seasons when you could have moved after the first, then you need to take a look in the mirror rather than pointing the finger.

Not sure how many clearances have taken the full 28 days without a person owing fee's. In my experience, most clubs move a clearance within a week.

"Several clubs gave letters or posted a list and most named Div 1/2 squads which were often misinterpreted that a child had a chance at Div 1 when in most cases they did not."

(Sigh) Surely if the kid gets a letter that says Div 1/2 squad and they get a place in a Div 2 team then the club has delivered on the promise? Or is there something I am missing here?

"My child is now in an environment where kids (and parents) are there for fun"

I reckon if you ask most of the kids currently playing div 1 I am not sure they would be saying they are there for fun. They must enjoy the game to get anything out of it, thats a given; but playing div 1 just for fun seems to be wasting talent and a highly prized position to me.

Dedicated div 1 players are mostly there because they have a desire to be among the best, improve to the next level and show that they can play at that higher level consistantly. Ask any of the kids in contention for a state spot at the moment, Im not sure they would discribe the process as fun.

Can I suggest that if your kid is in div 1 for "fun" then maybe they should step down 2 divisions where the pressure is off somewhat?

I must make it clear that IMO most div 1 kids are not robots getting no enjoyment from the game. Most div 1 kids are playing for more than just fun.

When they finish their div 1 careers hopefully they can look back with pride and remember the enjoyment that they gained out of this brief period in their lives.

Spirit - my child is now playing in a top club, Div 1 and winning. My child's game has improved out of sight, and my child is incredibly happy about the move and its outcome.

Boyblunder - I did not say they were just there for 'fun' I think that was pretty clear and I gave other positive outcomes including: 'improving their skills and hence their game, listen to and appreciate the coach and each other. Recipe for success!'

Spirit - Fees were well and truly paid way before clearance was requested and no other debts outstanding. We always paid a children's fees and never owed anything from one season to the next - unlike some. We ensured club hierarchy and coaches were made aware of the problems - so no need for us to look in the mirror. We did everything we could and more. Hence, no regrets.

fox82,

So what you are saying is that the rules have worked out fine, and that everybody has ended up happy!

Agree with the amount of time that it takes for a clearance to "go through". I would have thought that 2 weeks gives clubs sufficient time to check fee's are paid, etc.

I have only heard of 1 club waiting to clear a kid so that they can't play for a reason other than fee's.

Agreed on the clearance time.

The club my child is involved with has 3 kids that have transfered from the same club at different times in the past 2 years and all without exception have had their clerances drawn out for over 2 weeks.

If there is fees owing, no clerance; but if not, whats the problem?

Spirit (Not at all. It teaches them that you can't back out once you make a decision.)

Spirit,

When driving my car the other day, I thought it was safe to turn right across 3 lanes of traffic. I had made the DECISION to go.

I then noticed that the bus was not turning and was going straight ahead.

Should I keep driving (presumably under the bus) because I have made a decision and I must learn that once you make a decision you can't back out?

I decided not to keep going and CHANGED my original DECISION to make what I believe was a BETTER DECISION.


If the kids are not happy, they are going to move to other sports. The big difference being, if they move clubs, they still pay to play and BSA still gets money. If they leave the sport, the same amount of Admin work needs to be done to change the draws however, we don't see anymore money from that kid, nor his friends, underaged siblings etc.

Great analogy FM!

Spirit - my point was the rule did not work things ended happy despite the rule. The rule is WRONG WRONG WRONG! We will have to agree to disagree. I'm done!

(#185633) Correct decision made. You avoided a horrible accident and maybe even death, dismemberment, or both. Thats your basic instinct hard wired into you.

The parent of the child concerned who now wants to move clubs, does not risk death to his/her child, just realises he/she may have been misinformed and has to put up with feeling they have been duped for the rest of the season. No biggie!

If you leave the sport for good after that, well good luck to you.

Sometimes the good of the many does out way the good of a few.

I like the rule. Keep it. To many coaches have been burned or held too ransom by too many parents for too long.

As was said earlier, there will be exceptions to all rules.

Ask for a ruling on your particular case, then stand by that decision one way or the other.

So you are obviously advocating the burning of coaches and clubs instead?

The rule was designed to stop parents with hurt pride ripping their kids out of clubs mid way through a season.

During the past 18 months my child's age group has had 3 kids transfer from our club, all to the one club.

You really should talk to the kids because all three of them would rather have stayed put. This was from the kid's mouths, not the parents.

FM,

That is absolutely rediculuous, equating a kid waiting a season to move and life and death situation.

The analogy should be, when you get a licence, you accept that there are certain rules of the road. Putting yourself and others into danger in any situation is not a decision, but rather accpeted as the norm. Well now, when you play the first games of a season, accept that it means that you can't change clubs.