Mourning was never good.

Gasol, Chandler...
This topic raises another interesting topic. The USA basketball team have pretty much picked their side now for the Olympics and it only has one legit centre in it, Dwight Howard. After that they have Bosh(PF) and Boozer(PF) running the 5 spot. They have passed on Chandler to include Prince in the side for defensive versatility, but I think they need another big.
They are running with a very small side in Kidd (PG), Paul(PG), Deron Williams(PG), Redd(SG), Wade(SG), Bryant(SG), Prince(SF), James(wherever!), Anthony(SF), Bosh(PF), Boozer(PF) and Howard(C).
Personally, drop Kidd from that squad. The only plus side of his inclusion would be his veteran status. When you have Paul and Williams in your team and LeBron (again can play any spot!), why do you need Kidd?

US have not lost a game that Kidd has played. 38 - 0.

Coach K has personally stated that Kidd is like a coach on the floor.

Good enough reason there...

He wont be dropped.

Look at the style of the NBA these days though
Gone are the days of Penny to Shaq for a Jam
The classic PG or SG doesn't need the C to rack up 25pts and 12 reb anymore

But you never know it may revert back to a Big Mans game in a few years- it's all evolution

I ain't that old but how many dominating C's were there in the league in the 70's apart from Jabbar, Unseld and Cowens??

Kidd's only played at one Olympics, so the other 28 games were against teams that were never in with a legitimate chance, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico, Brazil, Canada. Argentina the only half decent team in that lot.

Kriss

Wilt Chamberlain
Mo Malone
Bill Walton
Willis Reed
Dave Cowans

The Chief was drafted in 1980 as well I believe..


Panther, I just answered your question mate, you wanted to know why have him...

Coach has stated he wants him, players all want him, he is a winner, a coach on the floor, he can teach the young guys, he is a "glue" guy.


Puerto Rico and Brazil are pretty decent.

Don't forget guys like Nate Thurmond, Walt Bellamy, Bob McAdoo, Artis Gilmore and (moving into the '80s) Jack Sikma when talking classic NBA centres. Everyone overlooks them, but they were up there with the best in their day. Sam Lacey was a decent Centre in the '70s as as well from what I've read.

with all the soft touches "fouls" in the NBA you now have 7.0 Garnetts and Gasol ..all the face up softies .. real centrs are playing in Europe where they play by FIBA rules and is more physical in NBA and where refs folllow the rules and not rig games for superstars that get away with travels/carries and bail outs !!!

Yo!

Don't forget Mark Eaton from the Utah Jazz @ 7'4. He was a top centre.

Mid 80s champ.

"Gone are the days of Penny to Shaq for a Jam"

?????????????

Huh? CP3 to Chandler anyone?

Team USA obviously has an athletic advantadge over every nation in the world. Now i know the international game is based on the half court but when they turn it over they want big men who can run the floor. Having said that dropping Chandler for Prince was a terrible move IMO, Kobe and Lebron have proved this season they can guard the wings. I think you'll find the likes of Howard, Bosh, and Boozer can outrebound and stand their own against any big man the world after all they do every game.

DB5.. The Chief was actually drafted in 1976 & played 4 years at Golden State before being traded to Boston. A great decision by the Warriors, much like that of the T-Wolves to trade KG... not! But hey, I'm a Celtics fan, we'll take 'em every time!

i think people need to realise we're talking about 'great' centers, not 'solid' center..guys like bill walton, Mark Eaton etc were solid but not great! great are like wilt, ewing, jabaar, shaq, malone etc. because if you're looking at solid centers, the list'll extend to guys like bogut, chandler etc. so i think people needs to first differentiate who are the greats and solids...before actually saying there's less great centers around

furthermore, maybe the blossom at guard spot has taken away the attention down low post. and i also believe more advanced physical training has somewhat an effect to the game. as today, not only the centers are big, the guards are also fairly 'big' strength wise. so the game is more even in that not only the big man bossing people around because they're the strongest. guards are know better built up too.

Is everyone forgetting Bynum.........if he comes back strong, he will be the best Ctr in the NBA

Same can be said about Oden

HA

is that a joke Fezlington?

Bill Walton only average.... Mmmm interestin call that... One of the NBA's top 50 of All time, NBA MVP, Finals MVP, not to mention his acheivements at UCLA. A little credit needs to be given to him considering the injuries that plagued his career.IMO His overall record matches up pretty well to the other greats.

I answered Walton to the question of "were there many dominating C's in the league in the 70s?". The guys I stated all dominated the centre at position during the 70s. I only just noticed you had already said Cowans kriss, doh.

Oops, you are correct lethal5.


Good to hear you are still here Fez..

I can't believe we're discussing great centers and no-one has mentioned ARVYDAS SABONIS yet. What's wrong with you people? :)

s30, Bill Walton was great in the 70s - he led the Blazers to a championship - but then his feet gave out on him, and he was just a solid backup after that, when he could get on the court, that is.

I'm struggling to think of other dominant centres over the years, other than those already named. Rik Smits? James Donaldson? Chocolate Thunder from the planet Lovetron?

I can think of plenty of busts at center though. Joe Barely Cares (a #1 overall pick - McHale went at #3!), Chris Washout (#3 pick), Sam Bowie (#2, as we all know...!), Benoit Benjamin (#3), Pervis Ellison (#1), Dinner Bell Mel Turpin (#6), Kwame Brown(#1), Kandi Man(#1), Steve Stipanovich(#2), Shawn Bradley (#2), Big Country (later "Small Continent") Reeves (#6), Donnie Darko (#2), Rafael Araujo (#8). I'll even throw in Dwayne Schintzius, even though he was a late draft pick, but he still woefully underachieved.

Greg "even my mum must think I am ugly" Ostertag.

I like the chances of Bynum as he is the youngest to shine in NBA when comparing to all names mentioned above...you have to remember, durability and consistency is also an important factor when determining greatness; many players have 1 or 2 all star seasons then just vanishes eg. antoine walker, michael finely, jimmy jackson. the elite class of great players can meet that criteria eg. mj coming back from his knee surgery, kar malone before his last season etc. so been durable is really part of the game and is what bumps individual from one class to another!

so maybe to put someone in the class of greatness you'll also need to consider the number of years one was playing at star caliber? (eg. at least 10 years)

dwight is not a center... he is a power forward playing center

What is all the hype over Andrew Bynum???

Is he really that good? People are talking like he is a big deal and that he dominates etc... i just don't see it.. perhaps its coz i've grown up listening to the hype around young players and i'm just growing more and more acustomed to them turning into good, not great, players..

And for my two cents Kidd should be in the olympics coz speed will be less of an issue so he is going to be fine in D, also, as stated many times, he is a coach on the court and this is never more valuable than when you have a team playing together for the first time and thrust straight into olympic compitition. They will need vets to run the show.

predict that the US team will struggle in the Olympics .. cause the refs in the Olympics DO call travels, allow more physical plays with no bail outs and have no preferential treatments for "superstars" like the NBA. They may still win it all due to talent but there will be a few close games. The games can't be controlled by refs quite as much Stern does the NBA .... but then again the Olympics is as much a BIG business as NBA so who knows ... but have better chance at Olympics to be fair as basketball is NOT the only sport in town in the Olympics

as for centers ..the NBA really only has Yao Ming and Howard.You could add Duncan there when he takes that position. Shaq is pretty much on his last legs. With the softy rules of the NBA these days the pivot plays arent coming through anymore .. instead you are getting 7.0 ft jump shooters. The last era of the great NBA centres were the days of Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson ...

you have to watch what bynum does to know why there's so much hype on him, don't comment "if" you haven't done that.

you check out his efficiency before he was injured, he was pretty much giving you a DOUBLE-DOUBLE in 20min! now he's only turning 21 this year with 2 1/2 year nba experience already with 1/2 of it blossoming, considering his mentor kareem only entered the league when he was 22...

you do the math right there. plus someone within the club told me about his work ethics (where most youngsters fall). they claim he's the hardest worker next to kobe, and is really smart enough to put his ego down and value kareem's mentoring. while busts like kwame at the time wouldn't even bother turn up to the gym in the off season. expectation for him in the coming season is 15/12 average, and they believe it's fairly achieveable with gasol (who is also expecting to be learning a thing or two from kareem aftering olympics) on the line up too, bynum may be able to rack up offensive boards. Of course, he needs to make the full recovery first and they expects him to.

btw just checked up, USA's going REALLY small with only 1 center in Dwight who's really a power forward!!!

also, reading about bill walton thought i might add something about him, apparently the team calls luke "bill's mistake"~~~

Patrick Ewing is the greatest centre of all-time

Hakeem Olajuwon is the 2nd best

Patrick Ewing...pffft.


I think you are forgetting about Wilt and Kareem there champ. Take off Isiah's glasses mate.

DB5!

I'm just being biased because Ewing is my all-time favourite.

Kareem and Wilt are legends as is Bill Russell.

I think Wilt's is the best centre ever and better than Shaq.

If Wilt was around in Shaq's era, he'd dominate over and over.

lol, that's why I said take Isiah's glasses off.


Cannot believe I didn't name Bill with the other 2!

Hey Quagmire, I'd like to say that Bynum is all hype, but I can see why people are excited by him.

His first two seasons were pretty uninspiring, but check out his game by game performances in the season just gone and you will see he was really having a breakout year until he did his knee.

He's definitely shown he can be a top centre, he just needs to play himself back in following his injury and ramp up his consistency, especially against the better teams. I remember for example that he was shut down both times by Boston during the season and had weaker stat lines against defensive teams like Detroit and San Antonio.

But I'd say with his size, athleticism, Kareem's coaching, reported work ethic and guys like Gasol and Kobe to take the pressure off on the court, he has a pretty good chance of succeeding.

If karma has anything to do with it though, the Lakers should be forced to pay their luck forward from the Gasol 'trade' and give Bynum to Sactown (make up for 2001), Milwaukee (make up for Kareem), Philly (make up for Wilt)!!! Hehehe

Bynum will be an above average pro, but i still don't think he will be a top flight center, when i think of great centers, i think of guys who consistantly drop 20/10 and block 2-5 shots on teams whose sole focus is to stop THEM, not their team-mates...

There just aren't any of those guys left outside of Dwight...

And Duncan too...if you call him a center...i do.

bynum's a 20/10 prospect who also is averaging 2+ blocks LOOK at the minutes he's played; in fact a retired lakers told me he reckon bynum'd be the next "man" for lakers after kobe, so we'll have to wait and see!

Just coz your retired doesn't mean you have a clue- look at Isiah...

We'll wait and see obviously, but my tip is Bynum will never be a top flight center. Not even close really.

I think you're gonna get burned on this one Quagmire. Its a lot easier to be a top flight centre now when good big guys are thin on the ground.

Bynum has everything going for him and he already was among the top rebounders and blockers last season. I think the only way he will fail is if he doesn't have the right work ethic and mindset to succeed.

I see him as a top flight C within a couple of years along with Yao, Dwight and Oden, with guys like Bogut, Chandler and Z in the next tier. Defensively Perkins has now proved he is right up there too.

i weren't a player, i was talking to one, here's some more stats for you on his current career highs all achieved THIS season before injured:

pts: 28 against Phoenix (Amare?)
rebounds: 17 against Bucks (Bogut?)
blocks: 7 against Magic (Howard?)

Lakers vs Spurs (13/11; the only one Bynum played against Duncan this season; LA win)
Bynum:
FG:4-5,11pts,12rb,1bl,27min
Duncan:
FG:2-13,5pts,5rb,3bl,30.5min

only big man he couldn't stand out was against Yao. also 18 double-doubles in 35 games, a lot were missed by like couple of rebounds or points cos he really didn't get enough minutes.

average this season: 13.1pts,10.2rb,63%FG,2.1bl

that's already better than most bigs today, he missed too many games? If NBA plays 30+ games like NBL, that'd be a solid, efficient season!

keep in mind there's still lot more he's working on, his only weapon now is just put backs and alleys but heard he's developing a decent hook too and needs to develop lot better face up game also. so it ain't like he shines against average joes, he's outplayed stars.

So who do you get the inside word from la boy?


"in fact a retired lakers told me he reckon bynum'd be the next "man" for lakers after kobe"

The fact is we are evaluating a guy on less than half a season, who is coming off knee surgery, and is 20 yrs old.

Lets wait til half way through next season and see how is he developing, and if he is able to stay on the floor. Then we can continue his evaluation..

Throw all the stats you want at me and i'm sticking to my statements- he will be a solid pro, no-where near top flight center material.

His career highs are what top flights should get every couple of games.

And when are people gonna stop telling me how old players are??? like its some kind of hint to steady improvement. Are you all sport agents or something coz i ain't buying.

Dwight showed it from day one. As did Hakeem, Duncan, KG... all of em. Show me a player who became a franchise player after 3 years of being a role guy- doesn't happen.

"Heard he's developing a decent hook..."

That reads on a ton of big guys NBA tombstones...

right next to;

"needs to develop lot better face up game"

somebody from the players' management group who works closely with progress of the each athletes.i did work experience with a few guys of this role from 3 different teams and la was 1 of them.

Jermaine O'Neal, Karl Malone, Gilbert Arenas, Dwight Howard (he weren't this dominant from day one), Kobe, T-MAC there's way too many who became franchise player after

Jermaine O'Neal wasn't dominant as soon as he got to Indiana either. He was good, but it still took him a couple of seasons with the Pacers before he was an All-Star.

I guess my definition of great is different to some.
Dwight was becoming a monster at the end of his first season, not halfway through his third.
Malone always delivered, ask his many kids...
Arenas is good, not great, besides- his second season he was getting 18/6/5.
Bryant was getting 15/3/3 in 26 off the bench his second season..

Now T-mac is one that exploded in his 4th season.
So you got one.

Again, we will have to wait and see but i think Bynums room for improvement is not as large as people would have you beleive. He will be awesome one game but i still see him having big nights off...

My prediction... a fitter version of Eddie Curry.

y don u spend some time lookin up each game he was playin before he went down. btw at least for 1/2 the season he played, age-age comparison, he wins against howard. u got no combak 4 tha dude..yo can jus try get urself out all holes with arguments tha jus 2 bias. eg malone was OLD in his 2nd yr (wat? 15pts average?) bynums delivered nite after nite! i aint even lakers fan.

We'll see ;-)