Kriss
Years ago

Most surprising player for 36ers

Most suprising would be Cooper and Brad Hill

Most reliable Dusty

Most exciting Farley

Dissapointing? Holmes' shooting (not his game), J Will (no fault of his own)

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Statman  
Years ago

Most Improved would be Oscar - his shot selection and resulting percentages have been sensational

Holmes has been a major dissappointment - all his stats this year have suffered with the only improvements being in blocks and assists, everything else has dropped off from last year.

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Isaac  
Years ago

I know I'm not the only person who thinks it: if you combined those two, you'd have a pretty decent player -- confidence, aggression and strength from Jacob; general percentages, shooting, agility from Oscar. I know you could say that about almost any two players, but I still think it's interesting that they came into the team at the same time and you could look at a disadvantage in one and find it to be an advantage in the other.

Both are solid from the line and quality NBL rebounders.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Jacob should have gone to sydney. he would have done well under Goorj.

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jimmy de bas  
Years ago

if holmes went to sydney to begin with then every adelaide fan would be crying about how the 36ers stuffed it up. and the 36ers would have learnt their lesson to get the good AIS players who came from adelaide, and they would have picked up brad newley.

Reply #22295 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Geez, do any of you have ANY knowledge of the game of basketball?

Holmes is an valuable starter.

He rebounds well, passes well, and on numerous occasions gets the important defensive tasks.

So he misses a few shots, big deal! He more than makes up for it in every other aspect of the game. And a lot of those aspects cant be read off a stat sheet.

Some of you have absolutely no idea.

Reply #22300 | Report this post


SML  
Years ago

Yes you're right, he misses a fare few shots! He tries to shoot himself out of a slump way too often, and a lot of the rebounds he gets are of his own misses.

He'd want to be a valuable starter for the amount of minutes he is playing.

Also any fan with 'knowledge of the game' would realise that the stats do lie!

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Hill  
Years ago

"He tries to shoot himself out of a slump way too often"

so your saying to get out of a shooting slump you dont shoot

Reply #22305 | Report this post


SK  
Years ago

Would you rather he played like Nash, who is more of a liability in offence because his lack of confidence to score means his defensive player can cheat and help making life harder for the other 4 players. At least he is always a threat on court whether he is making the baskets on not.

Reply #22313 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Very good point. It seems rare that you'll see Holmes get an open look at the basket -- he's nearly always pressured by a defender. He's still young, though that's easy to forget. Not many other teams in the NBL have starting players who are similar in age.

Reply #22314 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Poor Nashy. A quiet, respectable attitude where he defers to teammates more than himself, and he gets labelled an offensive liability. It just isn't true. Sorry - Nashy's number one supporter here and I just had to wave the flag. The guy can play - he just has no ego (and surely that isn't a bad thing).

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Kriss  
Years ago

Nashy is obviously much more valuable defensively where he can gaurd 4 spots then he is scoring points but he has had some bright moments where he can hit the 3 or slam it home. Is he out of contract this year and do we get him back?

Reply #22333 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

See how healthy he is. I think he's owed a chance to prove his fitness at training or in games if he plays the ABL season.

And if they get him, hopefully the club forks out for some insurance just in case!

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Avanti  
Years ago

Whilst I agree Hill would have "most surprising" locked away, I think Gower has also been a bit of one.

He has added an energy to his game in the limited time he has got that hasnt been there before.

Reply #22340 | Report this post


Anthony  
Years ago

Holmes would be most versatile may not have shot well but has contributed defensively and offensively very rarely is he left with an open shot.

Underrated in value is rees/cooper you only have to look at us last year.

But remember folks its a team game.

Reply #22348 | Report this post


sportybabe  
Years ago

jacob is a gun.
brad hill is the most surprising player and has been a big help to the 36ers.
so what if jacob misses shots so does everyone else, jacob'd defense has improved, if u cant c he has been getting the best opposition players.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

good call sporty spice

Reply #22357 | Report this post


sportybabe  
Years ago

thanks. Brad Hill and jacob will be so valuable in future years. also if willy farley passed the balll more jacob mite actually get freee shots!!!!! yes farley is a good player but learn how to pass. i got taught that in u10's!
JACOB IS A STAR

Reply #22360 | Report this post


Sporty spice makes good albeit bias points. All those Jacob knockers out there will be eating their words over the coming seasons (if Jacob doesn't get poached). The guy is 21, a great rebounder and always a threat. To those people declaring the only reason he gets so many boards is because he is cleaning up his own mess, this does not make him a bad offensive comodity either, so you say he can't shoot... WHO CARES IF HE DOES IF HE GETS THE REBOUND EVERYTIME!!!

Get off the guys back and prepare to eat those words come playoffs.

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sportybabe  
Years ago

i totally agree leave him alone!
good comment Jay, he gets a hell of a lot of rebounds cleaning up everyone elses mess!!! BACK OFF

Reply #22366 | Report this post


red dog  
Years ago

we are a bit sensitive aren't we folks. When jake was flavour of the month -last season there were some who proclaimed extra-ordinary greatness for him this season and bagged other players. At least now have the grace to accept that Jake does get a lot of O boards from his own missed shots and he has not shot a high percentage and yes he has some turnovers especially when he's played as a guard which he is not. But he still has been a significant contributor to the team but he did not translate his excellent ABA season to the ABL. Neither did Redhage!! But Jake is young and will consolidate and has a good future so yes support the guy but be realistic.

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wak  
Years ago

I'd want Holmes on my team anyday - he's the future for the Sixers and damn valuable if you ask me.

Those of you who can't smell the roses, get your heads out of your Goorj!

Reply #22373 | Report this post


Dana  
Years ago

I think Jacob Holmes would be a much greater player than he is if he could just get some air into his shots. When they go in they're all net, but with the low arc on them he leaves himself a lot less chance of the ball dropping in from its own gravitational means, let alone going in when it is barely above the rim.
My only real problem with how he plays is his unbelievably flat shots sometimes.

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Statman  
Years ago

Well put Red Dog

All i was trying to say earlier was that this season in my opinion he has been dissappointing. The stellar form that he showed in the ABL and the confidence he gained from it should have meant he was ready to take the next step in the NBL this season. While I know that stats do not always tell the whole story the fact is that he has dropped off in all areas from last year other than assists and blocks. Yes I agree that he plays great D and he works damm hard but in my opinion he has not translated his excellent form in the ABL to the NBL. Im sure he will in the future but compared to what was expected of him this season he has been dissappointing

Reply #22377 | Report this post


36ers points per shot:

1.16 W. Farley
1.17 D. Rychart
1.26 B. Maher
0.98 J. Holmes
1.26 O. Forman
1.26 D. Cooper
1.22 P. Rees
1.04 D. Ng
1.27 B. Hill
1.00 J. Williams
1.00 T. Gower
0.43 N. Hambour
0.67 B. Gerlach

Reply #22378 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

In order:

1.27 B. Hill
1.26 D. Cooper
1.26 O. Forman
1.26 B. Maher
1.22 P. Rees
1.17 D. Rychart
1.16 W. Farley
1.04 D. Ng
1.00 J. Williams
1.00 T. Gower
0.98 J. Holmes
0.67 B. Gerlach
0.43 N. Hambour

Which gives rise to my question -- is eFG% (effective field goal) ever spoken of in ABA and NBL circles, or is it specific to the NBA? I have noticed it mentioned recently in discussions about NBA stats. How it works is in relation to three point baskets (unless I'm making a poor assumption). i.e., a 3-point field goal is 1.5 times as valuable as a 2-point field goal. Making 50% of three point shots translates to making 75% effective field goals.

eFG% = (FGM + .5*3PM)/FGA

"True Shooting Percentage goes a step further by factoring in a player's performance at the free-throw line and considering their efficiency on all types of shots."

TS% = Pts/(2*(FGA + (.44*FTA)))


This ties in to the rankings above -- those at the top are generally high percentage shooters or making a decent proportion of outside shots.

To thedoctor who wondered about the NBA's use of statistics, read this article on the Sonics site.

Reply #22381 | Report this post


Here is the eFG% and TS% for the sixers.

eFG%

O. Forman 57.4%
P. Rees 50.0%
D. Rychart 49.5%
B. Maher 49.2%
W. Farley 47.6%
D. Cooper 45.1%
T. Gower 45.0%
B. Hill 44.4%
D. Ng 43.9%
J. Williams 42.5%
J. Holmes 37.4%
B. Gerlach 33.3%
N. Hambour 14.3%


TS%

O. Forman 59.6%
B. Maher 54.8%
P. Rees 52.2%
D. Rychart 52.1%
W. Farley 52.0%
B. Hill 51.3%
D. Cooper 49.3%
D. Ng 47.7%
T. Gower 46.0%
J. Williams 43.8%
J. Holmes 42.9%
B. Gerlach 33.3%
N. Hambour 19.0%


Reply #22383 | Report this post


mp  
Years ago

Jacob has heart, is athletic etc. There is no denying talent. He just needs to pick and choose his places to shoot the ball.

In ABL he can back down the smaller guy and shoot over the top of him, obviously it is harder in the NBL due to better defenders.

you will probably find his rebounds and assist stats are higher when he is not shooting well.

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Panther  
Years ago

I think it's just a matter of time before he gets his confidence back. He may be a small liability at the moment because he's not hitting his shot but we're still winning and it's definatly going to help us when he does start hitting them. As we saw earlier on in the season when he had just come off a stellar ABA season he was firing on all cylinders.
I also think that Oscar needs to be as aggressive as what he is in the ABA when it comes to going to the hole and also his rebounding. Great outside shot for a big man but he needs to have another option. Lately we've seen him have a few bad games or should i say not even putting up a shot and again this is simply a confidence thing. Give these two a break, if they can take there ABA games over into the NBL which I think they can they'll be a huge asset in the future.
And can you really say Redhage had an opportunity to prove his worth??? They replaced him with Timmons who was playing twice as many minutes but not contributing a whole lot more than Redhage. Frank should have given him a go. The kid could play!

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Isaac  
Years ago

Replacing Redhage, from an outsider's perspective, was a stupid move. Barely given a chance, and wasn't doing too badly regardless.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think much of the criticism of Jacob Holmes is a little off the mark. His shooting percentage from the field is terrible, no dispute, but there are three reasons for this: 1) his flat shot - when he does miss, it always looks worse than it is 2) he tends to end up with the ball at the end of the shot-clock alot, which again doesn't help, 3) as a good offensive rebounder he is credited with a lot of shot attempts on tip-in attempts, many of which he doesn't have a lot of control over (David Cooper is the same). I personally think Holmes has played really well this year.

Oscar Forman has been the big surprise for me. He should win the 6th Man of the Year award, and he is one of the few Adelaide players who have consistently played better away from the Dome than at it. He has even become a presence on the boards this year, which I never thought would happen.

David Cooper has proven to be a perfect fit, though Paul Rees has been practically useless in the second half of the season. There has to be someone else we can get for the 15-20 minutes per game he is playing who won't get so touched up on the boards.

Brad Hill has been a great pickup, though now that Brett Maher is back the minutes aren't going to be there. Personally I would always have him ahead of Darren Ng, who really has made no forward progress this season. He's great at hitting the three, providing we are already up double figures.

It has been good to see Todd Gower get a few minutes (if only a few) and to see him carve out a bit of a niche with the hustle plays. He is also very good defensively. He's just not tall enough to rebound strongly at the power forward spot.

I don't need to say anything about Maher, Farley and Dusty as they have just been great.

The best thing for Adelaide though was losing Mark Nash to injury. I'm sorry, but he's useless, and he would only have held back Holmes and Forman. His indecisiveness is cancerous. The best thing about Adelaide's offence this year is the quick ball movement and decision making. Nash would totally f*ck that up. They don't need him, he should not be signed for another year as he's basically been injured for three seasons. Same story Jason Williams. Eight years is enough.

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Kriss  
Years ago

Nashy atleast can defend the opp best pf or sf and gets his 8-10 boards a night when he was playing

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mixmasterwipe  
Years ago

Nash rebounds well just like holmes does.Holmes shoots too much and nash not enough.Holmes to often jogs back on defence after he has just been stripped of the ball.Holmes also throws the ball away too much when put into the play maker role.Hill seems to be the next star for the sixers,he's my most suprising player.

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//R  
Years ago

This is more about the 'Jacob and Oscar' posts than the 'Suprising' topic. Ive been overseas for a lot of the season, so I can only comment on what Ive seen. For starters, sure, Jacob seems to be down this year. No need to panic now, even though his shot still lacks some arc and his selection is wayward at times. Lets not forget, the kid is only what, 21 years old? Give him time and he'll be fine. Please excuse the rhyme; not intended.

Psyched to see Oscar doing well, but I cant be the only one who thinks he should be attacking the rim a helluva lot more. Now that teams are scouting him as a spot-up shooter, he has a better chance than before to get to the rack at will. With his athleticism and quickness, it still frustates me a little to see him settling for the mid-range game. The guy can flat out shoot it, there's no doubt there. But imagine if he could add a slashing side to his game as well. Kid would be a constant threat, which could give us that solid third scoring option from the wing. Just a thought.... Cheers.

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