people there is a massive issue with the owners and basketball australia. Certain owners are threating to creating new leagues and not to place there teams in the competition. they dont want to be 'controlled' by BA or pay up the 1 mill.

Many have posted negative comments on seamus however he withdraw because of the other owners, seamus was with BA side.

there is a lot going on in the background.

the key is that is they want this asian league it has to be approved by fiba, hence ba support.

this is not in the best interests for australian bball as if we have asian teams asian league we will then have to qualify for the olympics via asia instead of oceania.

A rogue league has to be BA sanctioned or no international players will suit.

BA might be forced to run a few tournaments or elevate SEABL/QABL teams to put together a placeholder league to keep players active?

Seems strange - when Cowan and Larry were having discussions, in Melbourne 3 days ago , and the interim league means players and coaches are employed, while giving time to develop the new league.

Drb-I just heard the same thing. I think this may be a way of threatening the new league or the first of formation of a brand "new" league that has nothing to do with BA (as Drb said, formed by the club owners).

I believe part of this meltdown came by BA not willing to give TV rights to OneHD and opted for Fox. Before Seamus was willing to spend BIG money in hope to get NBL big like the NBA (no joke) but for some reason BA declined.

This move by the Dragons put a load of pressure on BA and will be interesting to wait out and see what unfolds. I can't see a BA-related league happening if this is the case. Simply, you have Tigers (who may not participate), Dragons, 36ers all not in the league, mind you this is where all the major fan base are! With this I somehow see the game in Australia heading in the right direction because people seems to be taking the right actions (obviously not BA)

Basketball Australia responds:

Chief Executive Officer Larry Sengstock said the Board were disappointed at the Dragons' decision but that it would not change BA's immediate plans.

"We were informed today by the South Dragons that they intended not to play in season 2009/10, which needless to say is very disappointing coming at this very late juncture," said Sengstock. "Irrespective of the Dragons' decision, the process we are following remains unchanged. We will assess the submissions of the final license documentation for the 2009/10 season due from the clubs by close of business on Monday and will then be in a position to outline the league's direction later next week."

Link to NBL website: http://linky.com.au/ku79m

Cowan is playing hardball fo sure...could we see Perth follow suit?

It's getting a bit hard to fathom whats going on - it's changing every day. Cowan was happy, Tuesday.
Bendat , recently signed coach Rod Beveridge for 3 years. He didn't want to put up $1M guarantee.
( But I THINK he has , now - I think ?)

"The Board remain committed as ever to our goal of ensuring that we put in place a financially viable league model that is truly national, with full representation from all Australian state capitals, as well as strong links to the greater basketball community. That vision remains unchanged and is what we continue to work towards."

Larry Sengstock is clearly lying and failing to work towards this little goal of his; what I can see is more teams from each captial pulling out than coming in!

Dragons were unhappy that the salary cap was to be at $900k they wanted it to be much higher. When BA wouldn't budge they pulled the plug.

really starting to force BA hand now, you could run with just the tigers like we did for all those years but it really disenfranchises fans like the west sydney thing. I just cant see a good way out. Ideally we wait a year and get it sorted but where does that leave our players? continue this path with some lax terms and did we really have any reform.

Its sad but it would have been so much easier if we bottomed out ie the soccer and started fresh but we have a good product but bad management. I know i don't envy any of the people at BA or the clubs at the moment.

BA don't know what there doing, they appear to have hijacked a nearly workable league and destroyed it.

itl be worse than last year, there are no signs to the contrary so far.

no teams from bris or sydney, nor is the defending champion in the new league, it's almost laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

There was an article in todays Canberra Times with Sengstock sprouting off that every capital city in Australia will be having a team in the new NBL, and he sees the Cannons returning in the near future.....


Good luck with that Larry.....

I understand you saying the league being an enforcer as a good thing but, if the head are making the wrong decisions the people from underneath will have to protest and dethrone if necessary.

Just like in politics, Mr Rudd can't dictate everything, proposals has to pass through enough people to go ahead. If the proposal is so bad that everybody disagrees, it'll simply be a no go.

I think in this situation, there's enough shaking heads for BA to retreat.

What an absolute joke. This new league is going to be the same shit with a different name. Basketball in this country is doomed.

I don't think they've asked no cap, it's just adjusted cap...

Now, "no cap, when they will play, where they will play...not pay up the $1M" out of all these, which one is the right decision made by the league?

*Let's leave the cap out since club just asking for raised cap.

When they will play? They been playing in the wrong time over the past few years, no body wants to stay in a hot sweaty gym in summer.

Where they wil play? Not enough attendance due to lack of marketing effort by the league, therefore smaller stadium to reduce cost. That seems valid to me.

Not pay up $1M? Well it doesn't do anything, only to act as temporary medicine treating the pain site but not the source.

So the league has asked the clubs to make changes but themselves stay unchanged? They have much more problem than the clubs, blaming on the club is just irresponsible.

When they play: I meant what nights, time slots and all that that teams request whent he program is coming out..

Where: the same...I'm not playing gold coast on a wednesday night...sort of crap..

and agin...no cap: i didn't quite mean it as that, but they certainly want it raised to an extreme level to again bust out the competition..

as for BA not changing, i think they are doing everthing they can to change where it needs to be done, but they are fighting a battle with again teams that are richer than the body...

the $1M buy in is no more than security that if your teams falls over mid season..ala a few teams this season, we dont have to go to our coffers to pay it all out...

if BA can stich up a deal with Fox to provide 4 games per week live, they will be miles infront of where they were from last season..Why? with added exposure teams can now offer sponsors something, because last season they could offer them nothing.that is an inroad, and it will be just that, baby steps, people are expecting big things straight away...

exposure once in a blue moon as it was before is what was driving sponsors away and people in the eastern states away..no one was following it because there was no decent coverage...even in SA boti was far more interested in calling out Mal then giving the game the coverage it should get, he still is..

go read The Age now and there is plenty to read on the local stuff, as well as NBA and updates on the NewNBL...During the season I had to continue to read that online to see what was going on,because for 6 weeks of the last season, all i could get was Hodge stories and the bullsh!t thursday funnies down the bottom...this forum had better insight to the game than the local print.


as i said before, if this is going to work it will not be seen for 10 to 15 years. and with that it will be a group effort, not just BA making decisions, but others helping...

the sad thing is, basketball is thriving in Australia, plenty of people doing great work, heaps of kids playing it, local comp's are strong as...even the WNBL is decent....which is obvious by the looks of this online forum...where we are having decent discussions...which i thank you for LA Boy...beats me talking about the same issues to my mates...with the same results...

Nope i think it's pretty simple. They've put the rules on the table as they always have. Difference is now they've got people who want to enforce the rules. This may mean the league does or does not go ahead this year. To me frankly this is details. The administration needs to grow some balls and stand up to the owners who don't want to play by the rules. Frankly fuck em.
Seamus.
Cowan.
Get fucked.
We need a real league. Not some jerk offs ordering around some unsustainable horse shit league.

Tell them where to go if they don't want to play right!

here here Olaf,

LA Boy - *Let's leave the cap out since club just asking for raised cap.

you dont get it do you !

two words b/a keep repeating...

"financially viable"

ahh Olaf & skull, i'm with you...finally someone stands up and takes the owners on and guess what, they dont like it...

if we keep moving the goals, they will always want them changed...

the next best thing the nNBL can do is regain ownership of all identities in the game...

so any team name that comes into the league is owned by the league....then if the likes of Mark Cowan decide to sit out, the nNBL just look for a new owner of that name to take over...ala A-league...

dictate, not be dictated too!

there definitely need to be a cap raise IMO. Why? Because the standard of the game is high enough for the players to deserve a pay rise.

When you look at other pro leagues around the world with higher pay and less quality players that become pretty ridiculous. Does Australia wants better competition? It certainly won't get it by the current cap. Even when you look at the amount of Aussies out there opting Europe instead of NBL? My mind is you've got to spend money to make money. The more you give then the more you'll get back in return. Personally I don't think $500k~$1m more on the cap will destroy the league. The poor decisions are what's going to destroy them.

Thus far I'm quite FOR the club owners because I just don't see BA making the right decisions right now. From a club stand point they would disagree with BA because they foresee BA's plan is probably going to have them bleed out money again. Which move by BA so far is going to help them see green $ signs by the end of the season?

It's ridiculous to even compare a Fox deal to a OneHD deal as far as exposure. So let's just leave it at that.

The way things are going, there probably won't even be a league in 10~15yrs time. I do hope Aus government steps in though, hand some more money out please Mr Rudd (somebody I now call ATM)

oh yeah and things would be a different situation if they were able to get a OneHD deal, then less cap will work with the increased exposure. But this certainly isn't the case here with recession now I don't think that many people are still having Fox at home. But once again this will apply to higher cap too.

So I guess what it'll come down to is TV rights...My mind is they'll be destined to success on FTA if netball has become so successful.

Today's Advertiser reads they've gone under - revealing it was no longer financially viable.

Anon #234603- get a screen name so I can look out for your posts and input in future- that was a brilliant post that hits the nail on the head.

Camel31 I'm in Brisbane at the moment.... is there a link I can't seem to find one.

Camel31- you going to the SEABL game tonight? Sandringham v Brisbane 8pm. should be a good game.

Olaf, i need to correct you, Seamus walked away as the newNBL board where going to buckle under the pressure that cowan and another owner where putting on the NBL in reference of not paying the 1mil.

Cowan wanted the fame, bought his championship and is basically moving on. He should realise by withdrawing a lot of people are affected, ie players and there families, coaches and the fans. they guy bought his championship, spent way over the cap last year as every goorj team does and is feeling it.

Isnt amazing that every club goorj coaches, collapses. mmmmm i wonder why

I'm in Adelaide - Todays advertiser has 'Dragons drop out' article - written by scott gullan AAP.
It's not on adelaidenow.com.au/sport - yet.
But, should be later, today.

IMO, Cowan just doesn't want to waste money on the interim year they appear to be setting up which may not have the right potential to do well. It doesn't say anything about Cowan giving up after buying a championship (no one would spend millions just for that and then give up - the real prize would be to build a profitable business with big crowds) and anyone running the "Goorjian caused it" tripe yet again is an idiot. That's just one-eyed fanaticism you expect from the sheep that yell at refs whenever a right call doesn't favour their team.

Cowan would also be itching to not have to pay to use Hisense and still at heads with the Tigers over the use of the State Netball and Hockey centre. New 5,000 seat sport (basketball focused) complex to be built out knox way (South East Melb) where ALOT of basketball especially at a junior level is played. Wont be completed for a few years so a year or two off may be in his best interest. He cant make money at Hisense and has no other realistic options for this coming league/season.

A salary cap is needed so ALL teams can play on a level playing field. It would be impossible for the community based teams like Cairns and Woolongong to compete with the teams that have endless funds. The rich teams would be buying a premiership, is that what we really want?

HAHA, 603 is me, was at work so forgot to log in...

I too agree the cap is needed, what happened last year is tho, the nbl came out and said they have no way of controlling it, which sounds like they are not well set up to do this...which i think i read the guy doing it is just that, 1 guy...so it will be hard, but all contract need to go thru the league, along with bank details... which get's hard when the imports have US accounts so they will always battle that one, unless company records are allowed to be scrutinised...again gets hard when it has private owners who pay thru the company...which then comes down to assistance from the taxation office....and where the government intervention comes into it as per my previous post..

these are things that the nNBL must put in place this time round..and these issues are ones that we are seeing team (company) owners baulking at.

isaac, i think you are right there too, Cowan is waiting for the interim season to just play out and see how it goes...if they can get 8 teams to come into it, and play a decent comp, get some air time, Cowan could find himself hurting when trying to get in 2nd time round...even more stipulation on contracts and being open to the cap...

Anon, Cowan would have to pay the $1m when the Dragons return either way. He was in before, and now he's not. The $1m hasn't changed, but the league has likely gone from 'this is the new league' to 'this is some sort of league, I guess, but the next one will probably be the real one'.

And any owner hiring Goorjian knows that he'll want a particular trainer or supplements. He doesn't go to them making demands, they get him because they know that he's a proven coach. It's not as though he got massive budget imports, or the best rotation of bigs (Horvath and Burston!). Besides Worthington, I'd say the biggest expense there was Goorjian himself.

Back in one of the Kings years (pre-Sav, post-CJ I think?), he relied heavily on kids out of college with role-playing imports and Jason Smith?

Cowan's withdrawn from what will possibly be a half-arsed season - I don't think Goorjian is a factor in that. I'm sure he would've done the same if Heal or Ninnis or Price were coach too.

I've heard from a credible source, now BA are looking at time to re-group and changing the league back to winter..

Coach Goorijan runs the most professional basketball programs I have seen in Australia. And Issac is right, other than Wortho who was on a max out contract, there were no other major expenses. Even the two imports didn't cost quite as much as guys like Ere and DT. Ingles to my understanding was still under his first 3yr contract (though I could be wrong) so even if they blew the cap wouldn't be much (Gibbo also signed at a relative bargain).

Coach Goorijan actually features the LONGEST preseason preparation I have seen working around the world. He starts preseason training 5 months before tip off (something which I think is a bit overboard)! NBA preseason isn't even that long.

In addition to what Issac mentioned about Cowan not willing to participate in a "set-to-fail" (financially) season; he is probably also putting pressure on the league to change certain directions

The One, the League will not reassess whether the season needs to move from summer to winter (thus buying more time) as they have no evidence (as such) to go on to justify making the change.
The DSEG Review was supposed to investigate that from feedback and those that pay to put their bums on seats, but didn't include it in their investigation so it's not something they have the proof to change. (despite the rest of us knowing it would be a better idea)

Camel31, thanks for getting back to us on the article update- agreed that football journos should stick to what they know!

just heard the news, Tigers are probably going to follow the suit next week. So the league will be 6~7teams? they may as well just go straight to the playoffs.

A point of view held not only by myself, but many people in my circle of friends and colleagues is that Goorjian's success in Sydney was greatly bolstered from his position as coach of the national team.

Don't you all think it was a srange coincidence that many of the best young Australian talent playing locally and returning from college stints in the US just happened to decide to play for Sydney all at once..... or did the additional offer of a spot on the national team sweeten the deal for them???..... All the while our most talented and experienced players (Maher / Cattalini etc) were left twiddling their thumbs on the sidelines.

The results speak for themselves, Goorjian coached our national team into the ground.

the coach I know keeps it fair, it's not like the whole roster was filled with Goorijan's player; just because your hero missed out doesn't mean that's the case.

Last year I remember James Harvey and Adam Gibson was also running for a spot, but who'd you really replace them with? CJ? Mills? Newley? Come on, the guy is all about winning and this is from personal experience with him. He will never compromise anything in expense for victory. How'd you even explain the fact Barlow left him for the Tigers? I thought other than Mckinnon, Smith and Jawai, the selection was the best Australia could've offered at the time.

PS: I know Brian attracts lot of players who wants to improve. And how can you argue against the fact that he also just won another championship? The roster surely wasn't as impressive as the Tigers.

International men's games are hard, you're playing with teams who can feature 4 NBA players. I know Aussie did alright in 2000 (if I recalled correctly) but the men's game has changed so much since with Europeans really stepping up and having more NBA players than ever and in reality as good as Australia is, it seems to me they have fallen behind over the last 8 years. Europeans have just gotten so much better while elite Aussies just haven't quite reached that level with exception to Bogut. No offense to them but do you really think the inclusion of Maher and Cattalini will make the difference?

la boy i am sorry goorj definately used his national duties in his recruiting of talent, surely i recall there was a stage when i think there was 7 in the squad and he took 7 to the world championships.


the best thing BA has done is put a non club coach in charge of the league. also please note these kids coming back werent getting paid penaunts as well they got top dollar as well.

we'll definitely see how Brett goes. Perhaps I'm wrong, wasn't here back that long ago. Brian's a guy who pay deserved players top $s though. Daniel Dillon made some decent money this year too, whilst James Orr and Tariq had peanuts. This is part of reason why I think he's one of the most professional basketball coach in the country. But we'll definitely see how the next selection goes.

i can see teams pulling out, and to be honest BA saying they will run an interum season is not ideal, and will cost clubs money they do not have, but by holding out they will be making it harder on themselves to come in...tighter reign on all things is where the nNBL will keep the others honest.

ohh and keep an ear out for asia...they will be sniffing...a long with a 2nd NZ team...

and as for a rogue league...see how many players from that league play International basketball ever again...BA pick national teams..play against them and kiss it goodbye....and with enough young talent playing overseas to take spots...they wont need them!

times are a changing, Sengstock was no pussy on the court and is even harder one off it!

I actually think BA are monitoring discussion threads such as this to get a feel of the community...

LaBoy, you're obviously a little patriotic about your boy goorj, which is fine. But my opinion stated above is one held pretty widely amongst people in the Australian Basketball community.

I'm just trying to state a fact that he's a great coach, you don't fluke a .700 winning % by just having a jacked up team. Whether he played up politics back then I don't have the rights to comment as I weren't here that time.

You never hear me say the same about Westover, whom I have also done and seen work with.

Brian does play a poor style of the game similar to that of Pistons (the 5 yrs before this season). But it works, people also need to realize he's the head coach not the accountant of the team. At the end of the day it's up to the club whether or not they are to sign each player. And the clubs spent every $ in hope to win and Brian has definitely satisfied that objective, in reality the rest is none of his business.

Once again, his recent success has shown his coaching ability; maximizing everyone's ability to bring a high mid-class team to a championship team.

I'm surprised the questioning of Goorijan exceeds that of "Legend" Lindsay Gaze who also had good teams in the past with incomparable results to Brian.

NZ will not have a 2nd team for the upcoming season.
BA will not have an EOI process, accept applications, have a cut off date, do due diligence and say to a club that didn't even send reps to the EOI Briefing in Sydney and say, hey here's a free pass.
There may be another NZ club for 2010, but not now- they have showed no interests in the process and procedures to obtain a licence.

"you don't fluke a .700 winning % by just having a jacked up team"

The terrible management of basketball in this country, both Boomers selection and NBL salary cap management have had more to do with his .700% that you refer to than his coaching ability..... I don't disagree with you on Lindsay....