Even though I like the news, is there any confirmation other then a post from annon

That it's more likely than any alternative is good enough for me.

Thanks to the clubs that did commit to providing opportunities to players and other staff, and entertainment to the fans. Hopefully better adherence to the cap will go some way to reducing surplus impact on owners' pockets.

Tigers and Dragons, start saving for another $1m each...

Good chance it will end up as more than a seven team comp before tip off.

What makes you say that Paul?

ABC report.

now we just need Mal to sign off the sale of the sixers and I will be one happy camper

What a joke. All this hate on Melb clubs, seems like thay are the only serious clubs.

My question is, 'How many clubs will be worse off than now due to this bandaid season?'
Tiapans & Hawks - will they even see the season out???
Crowds will be horrible, some will argue that the standard will go up but i really doubt that...

Better than no league at all.

I think it is funny that perhaps the two most cashed up teams are the ones that wont be involved. Harder to ensure you can't come top two if you can't break the rules?

Goodbye Tigers and Dragons. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Att:#235186

Mate, the only way communitties/clubs get crowds is wins and professionalism...
Rights now, the SEABL & every State league around Oz has better structure (& inregards to SEABL, product) than the N-NBL will.
I couldnt supports this 7 team league mess any less. I have a real thought for all the players, coaches and their families but this is another example of bandaid management.
'Extreme change takes extreme change' - the plug needed to be pulled on this mess and come back with a real plan going forward... not this move.

Alamo, why are they the serious clubs? Because now, when the sport needs unity, they bail? Because when the reform review recommends $1m guarantees and even povo Hawks and Taipans can come up with the money, the Dragons don't like the idea? Or, after losing money and having the cap reduced, they whine?

The two of them couldn't even stop to see the benefit in sharing a venue. That's not in the interest of the sport.

The crowds will be horrible? Worse than 2,500 or so in massive Melbourne?

The standard may decline, but clubs will be able to maintain contact with fans, keep players employed, and get a headstart on recruiting players (possibly even pilfering Melbourne rosters).

Anon, how did the Melbourne clubs try and get the competition heading in the right direction? By maintaining inflated player pricing with a high cap while teams bled money, disagreeing on the bank guarantee, and then shocking BA with a withdrawal?

What's to say that the league cannot run this season while building towards improvements in the following season? A new broadcast deal, new naming rights sponsor, an extra $2m in fees from the Melbourne clubs...

Yes, Cairns were one of the worst prior to their collapse, but is that reason to not want them in now with a different ownership structure and different team?

Do BA staff/board members/security staff (andrew gaze...) frequent these boards when a story is broken.... a few odd posts defending the rediculous here...

What about Fox?

I'm rapped they are going ahead but i'm gonna wanna watch some of it.

hmm,BA & Alamo - same IP.

Please stick to an alias. Also, you might like to argue the points in question rather just claim something to be "rediculous".

---

nickyg, if Fox were involved, it might be one game a week. Doubt they would know more at this point given that the seven clubs aren't meeting until tomorrow (in Melbourne I think, funnily enough!).

Issac, I think Annon:235189 above summed it up pretty well.
Why do this 7 team season? Will it really HELP in turning the NBL around???
No-one takes this league seriously anymore, I am SICK of trying to defend basketball all the bloody time & i am sure many others are.
I struggle to understand why a guy as in tune with our game as yourself could support this season going ahead? Your a business man, take emotion and pride out of your thought process and you may see its not the right move.
Fan contact-internet, every association in OZ is on sporting Pulse!?!? Direct marketing to them has never been easier...?
What an exciting thought when the league would come back - The NBL is BACK! Everyone and their dog will get along for a look then, THAT is where the product is proven... but with this system, I know i will go back slowly and with a sigh and in real HOPE its going to be ok....

"Irrespective of whether it is this season or next, we will introduce teams from Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane into the competition by 2010," Sengstock added.

I really like what I'm hearing right now; let's hope everything goes through as what Sengstock has planned. But two questions:

1. "By playing the 2009/10 season, we can maintain a presence in the marketplace, continue to provide employment for our elite players, coaches and referees and set the foundation for a truly national competition to start in 2010."--why using this 09/10 season to plan next season out? What happened with the 08/09 season that just went by? So this season still counts as the oldNBL?

2. they're still going ahead with Fox deal? I guess one thing at a time and I sincerely hope they don't.

hmmm, BA - i believe this is done more often than we'd think.

Haha - national competition - no teams in Brisbane sydney or melbourne, i was sad about it, now i just find it funny.

There's no SA, WA or Tasmanian teams in the NRL, "national farceketball Lg". Maybe they should just rename that one the ERL?

Boti made the point succinctly today - it's "national" because the whole nation has the opportunity to join. If you choose not to, so be it.

On reading back on a few posts, i think it maybe possible to have a real effective relaunch as it currently stands. With Melb, Syd and Bris coming back into the comp on 2010 it will produce some real hype (if marketed accordingly).
This 7 team season will really be a non-issue & function similar to the NBA Players Assoc. Strike year, it will need a big astrix next to the champion.

Am i wrong in thinking there was a min of 8 teams to run the season though? wasnt that stated by BA?

I've already responded to the anon you mentioned - I covered the Cairns point and asked for specifics on what it was that the Melbourne teams were agreeing on (not the bank guarantee from the sounds of things!) specifically.

What is stopping the league from doing exactly as you've mentioned, in 2010?

This interim year may be little different to last year (already tagged as something of an interim year by some) - just treading water again until everything's set up.

I'm not biased here - I'm not arguing for an interim league to keep my brother in a job. His employer is the one club that will pay him regardless of whether there is a league or not. I'm arguing against his interest in the first instance (reduced salaries), but for it in the long term (stability, more opportunities).

What this interim league will achieve is a price reset for player salary expectations. Nine teams down to seven and a reduced cap will do that. Some players will head abroad, some might hold out - so be it. But the rest will jostle for jobs and the competition should bring the asking prices to something more reasonable.

From there, clubs still have reasonable talent on the floor and a better chance at commercial viability if they're pouring out $800k (made up figure) instead of $1.5m towards their primary expense. That extra fat means everything in this financial crisis.

And on top of that, an interim league still allows for reform in 2010 where I'm hoping they'll add a league above the NBL, and lower the NBL a touch to make it more accessible to new teams.

If staying in is such a horrible, horrible idea, why are there seven starters? Why are none in it hoping to maintain the status quo, but to push for a realistic improvement of basketball? These people aren't some other category of idiot, they want the league to succeed too.

Alamo, I don't know who you are trying to defend basketball to and don't know why you need to. Basketball is for the people that are passionate about the sport and don't need to be defended. You can only hope that it will attract a lot more by providing a great product. I believe the best decision has been made in view of the fact that I never supported the new $1m guarantee and the hardship it was presenting to club owners. At least this way that fans don't have to take a 1 year break, they don't have to put up with a lesser 2nd tier setup and players can continue earning an income in their trade. I believe with 7 teams the quality should increase without the need to pay over the top dollars to a select few. They can either take it or lump it considering the opportunities have decreased for them. Some of these select few that had been paid over the top in the past are from the Melbourne teams so whilst they were happy to take what they could while it lasted, the clubs have opted not to continue for this coming season. Their opportunities have changed.

7 team league would make for a pretty strong competition if most of the players stick around.

20 Grand Final players looking for new homes.

guys,it had to be pulled down.

they have all showed there hands now.

slow and steady wins the race,09/10 we clean up the debris and prepare to lay the the CONCRETE based foundations for the future.

10/11 bring it on,FTA,true national comp and a healthy breeding ground for the future of the game in australia.

Make that 19 players. Wortho can go and (Mod: Beep!) himself.

Keep some people in a job for a while, we might even get some good recruits from the melbourne clubs

Might there be an opportunity for a Melbourne based community club to join? Dandenong or another big club might get on board. Two teams worth of sponsors no longer have that money tied up (Haier, Dodo, Crazy Johns etc.), who knows.

Melbourne and Dragons played a game of bluff - and just got sidelined.

Some will see this as the sheer arrogance of BA. But late last year those same owners agreed to be bound by BA when the NBL came under its control. When they were faced with the first hurdle though, they failed the test. So whose arrogance is the greater?

This is like the constant squabbling of teams over the Ecclestone owned F1 series. You might not like the rules, but sometimes you just have to comply anyway. If you don't like it, find some other competition to play in. But one thing is for certain - it would would have been easier for the Melbourne clubs to be involved in the future direction of basketball if they were to be involved in the process. It seems a bit late to complain once you are on the outside!

JR & I just interviewed Saemus McPeake for The OT which will be released later tonight...

It was an action packed 5 minute chat where he guaranteed every club will lose money and confirmed Fox's deal was now 1 game a week for $200k ... plus a few other gems!!!

I really think this a decent way to go...without the game going ahead we would have been in a poor way, unable to retain players..coaches would be looking at different options...

as i have said before, this is a 10 tear project to get things on the sort of track required for a national comp...a rule from this that Larry and his board has sent is we will not be bullied by anyone, any team, any time...we will run the comp...dont like it...dont play!

now they sit out, they have lost any power in the negotiations...$1M buy back in for them...abide by the rules and there voice on the boards have been reduced..
..i have been in support of the BA from the get go...never show yr hand, and never show weakness...BA have done this so far...

Alamo - potential for a Melbourne team in the league, even if it's not one of the Tigers or Dragons. If one of them doesn't come back with their tail between their legs, could someone elevate another side, try to woo half-each of the fans of the two teams by signing a collection of their players and go from there?

Well done to BA for not caving in, they were often critisiced for letting the Mcpeakes controll the league and minipulate to his benefit, last few years tigers rosters was an example of this, and they pretty much sent teams broke who were tryin to compete but didnt have as much $$$.
I think Sengstock has shown he wont be pushed around and finally tigers and dragons have been shown no one is bigger than the league and they cant hold it to ransom cos everyone else will continue without them. At the end of the day they are now basketball clubs with no league to play, as what competition are they going to join in Australia??
I doubt they would be able to start there own and get enough investors unless they put up the funds for several clubs each, which would cost stacks of $$$
I look forward to the 7 team league, possibly a few add ins and the 19 grandfinalists being spread round the league in theory 2-3 each should make each club stronger on the court, we could end up with a stronger more balanced competition!

I would say that if another Melb consortium put in a proposal to enter, then they would have to have a clause in there that they would be the only Melb team for minimum 5 years, stopping any competition for fans and allow them to gain a decent fan base.

Fans may be fickle and stay away, but basketball lovers will join no matter the team..

Rod, wow - go Seamus, winning over the last 5 people who don't already think he's a tool. The optimist, guaranteeing losses for every club, when he and the Dragons lost money in 08/09 anyway. It's never going to be easy, but there's a nicer way to put it!

Maybe teams will make money when their fans bother to rock up and see a potential victory, instead of a guaranteed Tigers or Dragons win.

it's funny people talk about how Seamus blows the cap etc. but he not only won but also made some decent income.

also I'm not sure he really blew the cap that much either, what he did was setting up the ABA side where many of his NBL guys would play at and therefore get paid to play there, this way he was able to offer more money to his starters.

so Seamus really had 2 separate payroll; NBL and ABA. 5/12 players on NBL roster (Corletto, O'Hea, Greer etc.) was getting paid jack all during the NBL season but they were ensured income during ABA. This is a potential saving of 200+k on cap space.

this was really how he got by. by the point cap was purely him controlling the league. once again, he made some money so hats off to him.

Tiger will be back is my guess, but Dragons not too sure, BG curse u know.

I must applaud BA/nNBL board for having the Balls to stand up to the Tigers and Dragons.
Previous post I have stated they had none.
I stand corrected.

Hope an 8th team materialises even if not one of the originals.

7 clubs stood tall to say they would support BAsketball not just protect their wallets.

Annon- he probably did use ABA to hide more money, he just told me that's how he can sign all those players. In regards to them making money? I've actually SEEN the Tigers working captial since 2004 and there certainly were some significant income they made which I won't disclose out, but the they made money part was definitely true.

I 100% agree
BA, and the other 7 Clubs have stood hard, and will be the winners.
Dragons and Tigers obviously counting on everyone else following their lead, what an ego!!!
Like the bunch of guys working on the 6ers, A big call to support a 7 team comp having just picked up the peices, that takes balls.
We have to support them now, our 36ers are alive and strong, the most criticle issue is that the team, brand and fans are united and there for the long term.
Everything I am seeing so far looks good
Well done to all

oh god who the hell do we have running this BA, this decison just shows poor managment. they should have held out and waited a season, then have a true national league, how this is goind to be viable is ridiculous.

Drb- let's just wait and see how this season pans out before making that conclusion. Hats off to them for the move.

BG's Resume:

Player - Tigers (Withdrawn)
Assistant Coach - Geelong (Folded)
Coach - Eastside Melbourne (Folded)
Coach - Magic (Folded)
Coach - Titans (Folded)
Coach - Sydney (Folded)
Coach - Dragons (Withdrawn)

Who's next?

Drb, no different to before.

Anon, I didn't say the Tigers opposed the guarantee - I said that the Dragons did. An example of teams even in the one city and in the category of big-spending clubs couldn't disagree on something that basic.

LA Boy - wouldn't believe anything about the Tigers making a profit or being anywhere near the cap.

LA Boy, a little earlier, Isaac said that the Tigers and Dragons also lost money in 08/09. So which of you is right?

I'd be very interested to know which, if any clubs, have made a profit, in any of the last six years?

I'm guessing there will be very few examples of profitable seasons. Can anyone enlighten me? Because I have read a lot of conflicting information, and I think if we all knew more about how much clubs were making/ losing each season, we would all be able to reach a more informed view on the type of league that can currently be supported financially.

As I have said earlier, I tend to lean more towards a return to a lower cost, semi-professional league. But if someone can show me how a fully professional league with a $1 million plus cap would be successful in today's economic climate, by all means go ahead!

Great work BA, stuff the Melbourne teams, Larry called their bluff and I agree if they don't come back with their tails between their legs then make them pay $1m to come back in the year after.
I cannot believe that the state that boasts they are the basketball capital of Australia won't be represented in the National competition, it's a disgrace and both clubs should be ashamed of themselves. I would hope that players like perhaps Gaze, Anstey and maybe Bradtke all chip in and buy the Tigers to keep them in the league. As for South Dragons, no one will remember who you were in 2 years so who gives a sh*t about them! Good riddance!

The Tigers have been profitable in previous seasons, but last year suffered badly due to the loss of two major sponsors and a drop in crowds.

Yea i agree with Isaacs assessment on Seamus.
He needs to now leave the sport alone if he isnt going to enter a team. Its time to put up or shut up for everyone.
Out of the 2 id let the dragons back in earlier, atleast Cowan doesnt publicly bag the league as much as others, he has put alot of time and effort into marketing the league and his team the last few seasons and it seems he was all for the next season he got stuck when his partner pulled his funds, maybe he will be able to afford to run a lower budget team himself??
With Worthington and the players they need to stop bagging BA, even if they dont agree with their decisions say it to them privately not publicly, they have to realise the more investors/sponsors that the league/clubs attracts the more money will end up in their pockets, they should be out selling it as positively as possible. Them bagging it out is like a sales man earning commission bagging out the product he is selling and still expecting to earn big money. Sanctions should be slapped on anyone including Seamus who bags BA publicly for now on, sure Seamus can say im not in the league and not pay, but make it a condition that the fine is to be fully paid before he is able to have a direct role in a nbl club again, for Seamus make it $1 million, he still has a fine owing from the finals and constantly talks about his deep pockets if it means he never re-enters well so be it, same could go with players along with boomers suspensions, so there are still sanctions available.
Worthington was a interesting one, i thought he was a great guy by volenteering to help out Wheeler with the charity game and showing up, having fun and giving the fans some entertainment, it was him who got wheels his dunk also, he sorta undid this the other day with his comments, but i think his goodwill and quality as a player will hold him ok in most peoples eyes if he from now on makes no more negative comments and doesnt bag people like gaze and BA publicly, and plays well should he chose to stay in Australia. I think most fans, me included, hated him bagging his sport and australian basketballs greatest player in Gaze.

Anyways i look forward to the new league and hope all fans get behind it to support the owners and thank them for taking the risk in keeping their teams alive and giving us a top quality league to follow!

Well done BA for digging in and well done to the 6 other teams and the new Sixers consortium for caring about our sport.

I think any season will work for the Sixers.... crowds will still be reasonable, and with a reduced salary cap, the Sixers' new owners may end up in the black on the interim season. I will be there to support them.

and Mal, get your arse back in town and sign the transfer!

Beatown- I'll disclose this much, Tigers had made well over 6 figures in profit from their NBL team alone since 2004 (and that's in their working capital!). And that's all wages and expenses paid. Their most profitable seasons came during the 06~08 stretch.

On the other hand, needless to say Dragons had been purely bleeding money since day 1.

BRING BACK GEELONG, AND PUNISH THE TIGERS, DRAGONS FOR DOING WHAT THEY R DOING BY EITHER NOT LETTING THEM BACK IN, FORCING THEIR PLAYERS ELSEWHERE OR MAKE THEM PAY THROUGH THE TEETH TO GET BACK IN, THANK GOD THERE WILL BE SOME FORM OF DESCENT BBALL THIS SEASON UNTIL THE WHOLE REVAMP

Is there a press release at all regarding what was said? Cant see anything on the old trusty NBL website
7 team league that means how many home games? 6 teams 4 times each 2 home and 2 away? for a 24 game season? a top 4 in a best of three knock out i am guessing?

no one can or will answer the question on why the reform has taken so long and why didnt basketball australia start working on it earlier because you're all too busy bashing victoria.
So what do you have now- a competition without the state that has the highest juniors registered by far, a comnpetition that has pretty much no television coverage and nothing more than a lousy $200,000 from Foxtel.
Can someone explain how all these clubs that are going to play 09/10 (that all lost money the past years anyway except for townsville) are going to actually turn a profit and remain viable with less media coverage?
Surely the fact Cairns and Wollongong needed money from local fans to survive (good on them for donating though) is worrying in terms of- are these people expected to cough up $5,000 every year? Wouldnt a competition that actually is not moving forward mean the very chance they will bleed money again?
Before you all go off heralding this as a fantastic change for the league- really what has changed?
Less media
less teams
no genuine idea of how these clubs will survive the 09/10 season?
Seems to me things are not as great as what people are making out...

Now the league needs a blue-collar, Detroit Pistons-style "Australasia, let's go to work" campaign. Pero Cameron can be filmed smashing a hulk fist through a brick wall, Ben Wallace style.

KG and Phil Smyth have spoken to Chris Anstey , today at about 3.30. I didn't hear it - but would be interesting.

Just heard Anstey he spoke abit along the lines of Worthington, he said he probably wont play for 12 months as he doesnt want to move due to family, which is fair enough.
Obviously the Tigers and Dragons players are not happy, surely the players as i said need to realize that bagging BA is not useful for anyone! if you have constructive criticism say it to them privately not tarnish the product that has made you wealthy!
Smyth mentioned there maybe a association team coming out of victoria and said after the interview that his view was obviously melbourne centred and he didnt seem to feel it is as bad as anstey was saying, but he didnt overly express an opinion.

BTW i think sengstock will also be on the show shortly

Anonymous #235269
"So what do you have now- a competition without the state that has the highest juniors registered by far..."
How many of those juniors will hang around in your state now they don't have a team to aspire to play for in their home state??? I'm on the phone as we speak to your top ranked under 18 and under 20's teams trying to entice them over to SA and potentially play for the Adelaide Sixers who WILL be part of the NATIONAL competition...what do you have to offer? A spot in your social team??

apart from Townsville who make a profit- the rest of the teams in this 09/10 LOSE MONEY- what has been put in place to ensure this does not happen next season ??? how do we know these teams will be viable still when TRUE reform happens for the 10/11 season??? Will Cairns and Wollongong supporters have to put the cash in themselves again when playing in a half-assed league with no media coverage doesnt allow for teams to be able to turn a profit???
Again stop just bashing victorians and look at this objectively (and although some of you are- a lot of you are not)
Does anyone really think the NBL in 10/11 wont take a cashed up Dragons and Tigers team? You are all deluded if you believe that.
Unfortunately the 09/10 season will just be another year of lost money making it hard for these teams continue when the REAL reform happens- hardly a positive outcome for the sport id say.

The Ironic thing is that all the owners are meeting in Melbourne to discuss the league

Annon- Just because I'm not bashing Tigers doesn't make me a supporter of Tigers. If I was to support a team in NBL it'd be the Dragons or Blaze anyway.

I'd post something, but it'd just be exactly what Isaac replied.

One happy camper here - can't wait to support the league and get me some tickets.

Im with Loco cant wait to see the new league and just pumped that the 36ers are in!!!
Better than no league guys, they need to take baby steps forward!

knox team - I have answered it many, many times. It's been progressing for ages but cannot move at any speed because owners will not agree to anything without full information. Meanwhile, BA cannot provide that information without knowing who's participating.

Then you have two Melbourne teams who can't agree on the $1m guarantee - that's one reason why this has dragged on for so long, disagreements over details and wanting info the league can't provide until teams lock-in.

Guess what, now they have locked in and the Melbourne sides have opted out.

No one's pretending they'll make money this year, just like they didn't last year (including both Melbourne sides).

You ask what's changed? A reset of player salaries to something in-line with making clubs commercially viable. Other than that, it's not the point.

Reform will happen next year. Melbourne teams could've stayed in to avoid the $1m fee, but not so now.

It wasn't about status quo or reform this year. It was about status quo and reform next year vs nothing now and reform next year.

The clubs and league think that it's better to have something rather than nothing. Jobs for players this season. A way for as many fans to stay in touch rather than be lost completely.

And it's only true that there's no representation in Melbourne if another association-based club doesn't emerge to take the opportunity. Not guaranteed by any stretch, but not out of the question either.

Foxtel? What good was it last year? Crowds still fell for half of the teams.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25467290-12428,00.html

If it hasnt allready posted, this article by boti is a great read, u agree with Boti on this one!

Thanks for your reply LA Boy. If I assume you are correct, it is intriguing that the Tigers could make a profit, when teams like the Sixers, for example, who have far better crowd numbers year in and year out, and presumably have spent less on their players, cannot remain viable.

I think I have heard someone talk about how the Tigers model relies heavily on sponsorship rather than gate takings, so perhaps that is what is happening.

If this is the case, however, then you have to wonder whether the Tigers model is one that can work in smaller cities and regional centres where there are less sponsorship dollars available? Certainly Adelaide can't seem to cover costs with current sponsorship and gate takings.

In the end, the league needs to set up a structure where ALL of its teams (not just the Tigers) can field competitive line-ups without making a loss every season. Hopefully BA can finally take us down that road.

thanks for replying Isaac interesting reading and appreciate your reply.

Any chance the local tv channels in each market will pick up games for there respective teams, even it the game are show at 10:30 friday nights?

Anon, as I've said here or elsewhere, live streaming works for existing fans, but doesn't really attract new fans like FTA or (to some degree) Fox. And there's little point turning down even $200k unless live streaming is worth that (it'd cost too much IMO and live radio is a better option at this point) or any individual team can get a local TV deal - might be hard this season.

---

Boti's opinion piece on all of this calls for no salary cap, but an improved points cap. I actually think a salary cap is important at this stage to allow teams to build a foundation and to attract new teams - e.g., allow Brisbane and Sydney teams to make a start.

In fact, Brisbane and Sydney groups are sitting and waiting. IMO, they should be springing to action. A first season could be that much more successful with a better roster and a new team could avoid being in the position that the Blaze were early on by signing up now and grabbing available players before they all get locked up.

Beantown- just wondering how much are the tickets? and the stadium cost/night? At the cage the tickets would average about $26 and venue costs lot less (I can't recall the exact figure but it's somewhere around $6000~$10000/night). They normally get average 2600+ attendance per night; few regular season games exceed 3000 (not the derby either). Sponsorships definitely helps alot though.

Was just listening to SEN and they had the owner of the Wildcats on. Found what he had to say quite interesting.
Basically said that even though they have put in an EOI, for the reason that they didn't want their staff and players out of work for another 12 months, they would still only go ahead if the league is able to get a broadcasting deal and naming rights sponsor on boards.
Said they won't participate in a leage that is effectively a glorified SEABL or has SEABL teams coming up to make up the numbers.
I think that these are very much the same concerns that the Dragons and Tigers had. From what the Wildcats owner said without a naming rights sponsor and broadcasting deal it's just not financially viable to play (even with the cap at $900k).
I think something that people need to realise is that this proposed 7 team comp is still not off the ground. It is still just a proposition, and it won't be until issues like those listed above are addressed that even this 7 team interim comp will get off the ground.
Now, that meeting is due to take place next week, so i myself will be a little more interested in this proposed league once the meeting has taken place.
Still sounds fairly 50/50 to me at this stage.

The only way this season will be a failure is if the fans stay away from the game. All the teams that are prepared to play NEED us to now make the season great. Here in Adelaide the S O S consortium have done the best they could do in just two weeks and it is now up to us to put bums on seats. Lets all show our support by having the largest number of season ticket holders of any team in the league. COME ON ADELAIDE STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.

Gotta wonder what will happen if the Tigers and Dragons decide to rejoin at a later date. Realistically they're going to lose their players who will want to keep playing and will go to other teams in the meantime. They'll almost have to rebuild from scratch whenever they want to come back. Good on those who got a season up and running and made sure that players could stay and play in Australia! Also, hopefully with a reduced salary cap maybe season/game tickets will be a bit cheaper

IMO you can see Boti has been reading this board....plenty of opinion similar to ours....which is good....

Man the Melbourne players just look after themselves, Anstey and Wortho think its the end of the world because there clubs dont exist,just listened to anstey on sen.com.au i agree with boti on that issue, it can easily happen the tigers had one of the smaller attendances or atleast no better than average, the top crowd pullers are still in!
The players and owners themselves have to take responsibility, if anstey n wortho were not demandin so much $$$ clubs may be able to turn a profit and if they got out and promoted it more they may have got more sponsors for the league and clubs, and the owners like mcpeake pretty much ran the old nbl, look what happened to that, so instead of taking responsibility they just blame others, good on BA for not letting them do that again and not giving in to their demands, the new league wont be much different, just less teams, most of the same players and coaches will be involved many just will be paid less, which is what needs to happen as many have mentioned before.

would love to hear Gaze call in on this one

reading thru all this stuff, what is so interesting is the people with the same views...stay strong and stuff the teams who are wanting out...

well done to BA for now having the balls....but they must now stay strong, and support the teams who have showed faith from day 1.

the new DAY 1.....

laboy..... you probably wouldn't want to hear gaze call in on this one!!

day 1 hasn't started yet....

POW, i am looking forward to the new day 1,finally we are rid of the scum bags who bought the game to its knees!!

I thought the whole plan was to blow up the NBL and start with something completely different. Not this hybrid fix it on the go. I feel zero confidence in Sengstock and Gaze. Why are these guys running the freaking league? Gaze especially just doesn't seem that sharp at all. I was stuck behind the man at the local noodle shop and he couldn't even make his freaken mind up when ordering; holding up the whole que it was maddening. The man is too wound up in how amazing he was in the league and he and Sengstock are too scared to blow it up because then it diminishes their achievements. Why does the head of the board need to be an NBL player, I want someone with a business and marketing clue.

The 1m guarantee is not required at all, it is completely naive. The most important thing is that the NBL is familiar with the balance sheets of all teams and feel confident they have adequate equity, this is a judgement call not a fixed amount. They need to focus intently on the monthly p&l's of these teams and make sure their forecasts and cash flows make sense. When alarm bells ring they need to step in, there can't be any last minute surprises like there has been in the past.

An NBL can't exist without representation in the three major markets. Otherwise there will be no TV coverage, no news coverage and no marketing money. To me they need to focus on 8 teams and major population centres. I don't give a crap that some little town gets a good turn up. Small markets aren't going to keep the league going. They need to get some sort of audience of mass (although small mass) or they will never be able to generate the marketing and tv cash to keep the comp viable.

Is there a strategy at all? It seems like things are just getting bolted together on the fly. Screw next year, what is the five year plan, ten year plan? How much money do we need to get this league working properly? How do we generate that kind of money (TV, marketing)? How do we come to an agreement with a naming rights sponsor that has a realistic understanding in the level of exposure the league can provide right now and is willing to commit for at least three years. Are these guys thinking about this stuff? It pisses me off because I love basketball and want it to be sucessful in this country.

Anyway I didn't mean to write that much.

Knox Team,

"Unfortunately the 09/10 season will just be another year of lost money making it hard for these teams continue when the REAL reform happens- hardly a positive outcome for the sport id say."

As a fan of the 36ers (1 of around 6000, or 1 of around 25,000 is you count the other 6 teams as well), you are forgetting the huge positive that comes out of this for them. They get to continue their love and support of the league. As a person mindful of the welfare of the players, the positive is that around 80 of them will have a job. 7 head coaches and a dozen or so assistants will also be employed. Administration staff will keep their jobs. People that make money from game nights like caterers, cleaners, security personnel, court announcers, hospitality staff etc etc etc will have work.

Its obvious you follow the same mentality that the Melbourne clubs follow and that is to think only about themselves and do things following there own rules to ensure their success and the downfall of others. Well the message that came out of the announcements made today is that passion for the sport is always going to win over the greed of certain club owners.

Offtopic

That Pistons YouTube link made me a very, very happy camper... despite being obliterated in the playoffs.

/Offtopic

Continue

well before you all get too excited for Perth to be a part of the 7 team comp the NBL has to get a naming rights sponsor, govt funding and a television deal before they're in- good luck with that.
By the way- if 7 teams want to compete in a league until real changes are made- thats fantastic for them - i dont agree with it but i also have no problem with those believing that is the best thing to go ahead and do it. I also am allowed to have an opinion- and for those saying that the melbourne teams are only in it for themselves blah blah blah- maybe they wanted REAL reform- REAL changes.
The Dragons did more for the promotion of the game in victoria than what most clubs did- nothing was ever a problem for them in terms of helping out local associations- they advertised across the city/radio etc and promoted the game.

Knox, you remind me of McPeake - guaranteeing that all clubs involved will lose money. That's just petty and bitter.

You can want "real reform and real change" but still pay a season in this gap. This season the remaining teams are discussing isn't in place of reform, it's just a solution for players and fans until the next attempt.

Remember all the Kings fans the other year saying "No Kings, no Bullets, no league"? Don't be like them - remember how the Dragons-Tigers finals series was pretty good without Sydney or Brisbane? Townsville still had a great season. Adelaide, South and NZ still saw their crowds rise.

Basketball could lose Melbourne, Fox, naming rights and still endure. If the Tigers and Dragons want to play chicken with the league, and then sit out the gap - so be it.

Wildgoose, while you're saying the BA crew are all basketball folk without any business/marketing cred, Anstey is ruing the business people but saying the group doesn't have basketball knowledge.

IMO, this from the media hardly helps:

[John Rillie] had become so frustrated by what he believed was a lack of communication that he tried to phone BA CEO Larry Sengstock - only to get an answering service.

8,7 or 6 team league must now go ahead.
A smaller self sustained league is necessary until the model can be grown to support the $ previously spent.

The Dragons Model won't work as you spend way more than you get back, unless you have an owner/sponsor that doen't mind the loss it won't survive.

The Tigers Model works for them at the expense of others. But still needs owners/sponsor with deep pockets. The majority of teams don't have this available.

Is a $900k cap going to be viable either though? I don't think it will be sustainable for enough teams.

I couldn't care less that melbourne aren't in the 7 team comp, my team is and I'll be supporting them all the way. Get over the negative and lets focus on the positives like Wortho and Anstey don't have a team to play for and that the Breakers should be the favourites for the title lol

Has Rillie tried speaking with his club owners? Afterall they are his employers arnt they? Him ringing Sengstock to complain is like me ringing the CEO of ANZ to whinge about interest rates, and then getting the shits on when I dont get through.

As for getting an answering service, yeah thats how phones work in this day and age, maybe Sengstock was on another call, in a meeting, in the loo!! As youve said Isaac reporting like the above sample you have quoted does nothing positive and it seems as though some in the media find more satisfaction in helping drag the sport down in the general publics eye than posting anything positive

I dunno who reported the phone call to Larry Sengstock by Rillie but when we were doing The OT we had interviews with Cowan, McPeake & Sapwell lined up (Sappa's was for our blast from the past segment).

Mcpeake's interview was awesome and only took 5 mins, Cowan was unavailable (he let us know before) so we decided to call Sengstock & Marc Howard, just on a whim.

It was 1:10pm, not long after the press conference and they both rang out - we didn't really care and left it at 2 interviews to put on the show...

There's always next week episode ;)

How about this....

Look at a successful model, in this case the NBA, and MODEL yourself on it.

Some time ago, the NBA realised it was better to market the stars and not the teams. People will follow teams regardless, its called patriotism and 9 times out of 10 you will follow your local team.

To get extra interest, promote the players on rival teams that supporters can have a vested interest in.

I know for me, when the Sixers are done, i'm done. Couldn't care less about the other teams.

The NBA stretched out the number of teams, diluted the talent pool so that teams would each have one real superstar, that every play would run through and that player was marketed to the masses, not just within their city.

A diluted talent pool also meant that the star players could also take advantage of some weaker players who sneak into the league. (Kobe v Toronto?)

The result? My Jazz said goodbye long ago, i'm still 100% into the finals because of the players i know and like from other teams.

7 team comp will be terrible. The teams will be stacked, the play slow and boring.

We need a 15+ team comp that will give us the star per team and the diluted talent pool to make them shine.

Two teams in Perth and Adelaide so we can have some local rivalry for once.

Rod, that explanation is a whole lot better than the way it read from Isaacs quote.

Just reinnforces my view I guess that sometimes the media find it easier and more 'news worthy' to write a story and give a negative slant on every little piece of info that happens across their desk. Quite dissappointing when the sport at the moment needs all the help it can get!

Quagmire- when I suggested people follow the NBA model people said to me "this is Australia and it won't work"

LA Boy, you'll find that people are generally idiots.

They think if you post to follow a certain model, that we will follow ALL of it and not just take WHAT WILL WORK FOR US.

I would put my money that a 15+ team that plays 40 min games and allows up tempo play due to a dilution of Aussie talent across the board would be sweet.

And two teams in Perth and Adelaide would be frickin awesome.

I was listening to Larry talking to radio fiveaa , yesterday at about 5.10pm, for about 10mins , and his other phone rang out.

Quag, you know, blanket "do what the NBA does" suggestions are usually a bit misguided, but you have some excellent reasoning.

What appealed to me was that rather than having 4 guys averaging 15 PPG (kinda like the Brisbane championship), spread them out over more teams and have your 25 PPG players (though, 40 minute games will hurt that). Then market the stars.

But how superstar are our players? Buddy Franklin and co are the best at their sport in the world. Is anyone revered like that in the NBL, bar maybe a Brett Maher, or Kirk Penney? Even Bruton (a legit top-deck NBL player) doesn't really have that image.

The dilution of teams has the added benefits of reaching more fans, more children playing, more opportunities for players and so on, and sharing league costs. I'm all for that, at a lower of two tiers.

^^^ Maybe allowing a 'marquee player' would help in that regard? Although, the more this whole situation the league is in streches out, the more it looks as though it may not be all too viable. At least not in the short term.

Hodge, Ere, Smith, Homicide - imports like that are the key.

Spend up on much more than that and you either have to go past $500k to get anything decent, or you have a washed up name.

What was Bonzi Wells getting in China? Would he get outrageous press in Australia?