Foxtel list the game as starting at 4.30 in Adelaide

Cant get FIBATV feed in Aus or NZ, unfortunately, but their are some pirate broadcasts out there.

I too am confused about the starting time.

Game starts at 5pm in Adelaide and 5:30pm in Eastern states.

PS: Why can't you sign up to watch FIBA TV Paul? You should be able to as I did about a week ago to test it out using a 24-hour day pass for US$5.00.

I had no problem i signingb up to FIBA TV!!! But you are right, there will be a pirate broadcast or two floating around, hence the www.atdhe.net/ link I posted earlier.

not sure if they have this one, but i just love

justintv

:)

there is no link for the game on atdhe.com how can i get it

Can anyone provide a link?

Hre is a link I found: http://www.justin.tv/tipsters_

Again i feel like putting it on mute with this commentating.

Commentating is terrible - that american is driving me insane!

Jawai and Ogilvy have looked really good tonight so far, as have Gibson and Newley in particular.

Still, we do not always seem to be rotating on defence and thus too often we end up allowing a relatively easy shot. When we do rotate, there have been some big rejections.

Jawai is hitting the shots he missed a few nights ago.

Jawai putting on a clinic down low. Will be tough to contain in 2nd half. Ogilvy also having better game. Tall Blacks are still struggling to defend high pick and roll but compensating by attacking Ogilvy and Jawai and getting dish offs. Damn. Corey and Tait turnovers just before half gave Aussie a leg up we could have done without. BJ having a storming game shooting in Jawai's face. Got to keep it up for another half.... Kirk doing a better job of handling the attention by coming out taking ball and waiting for screen.

I can't believe it's not a best of 3 series and that NZ have gotta win by 7 or more to win Oceania championship. I can't believe BJ anthony is playing so well as a develpment player in NZNBL, albeit with some average low-post defending. American commentator is an A-grade turd.

Is this commentator taking the piss or something ?

You're right about Dan Henessey. Irritating as hell. Thank god the basketball is getting better. Thank god Newley is ice cold as well. Hope it lasts.

Abbbercrombbiieeeeee Ive been waiting a game and a half for him to do something. It was worth the wait. Brown still playing Oscar????

Coach Brown made a huge blue in the 3rd qrtr, allowing NZ to go on a 12 point to nothing run before he finally called a time out. Really bad coaching

Unsportsmanlike my ass, ref! he hit the freakin ball!

the american sounds like its a boxing match. Technical foul!, technical foul!

what the hell.

This is sickening.

Whats with these rotations ?

OMG that 3 at 3/4 time was more than a second after the buzzer.

A 19 point lead eeahh. Aussie look really rattled. No composure. So long as they don't heat up from downtown we might be able to hang on!!!!

Boomers had a poor lineup on court in 3rd and couldn't hit the side of the barn. AJ is 6/6 from the field and yet didn't see any action in the third!!!!
Boomers down 55-74 heading into 4th

4 guard lineup -- then the offense left NBA-style 1-on-1 to Jawai. Does a lack of a 4-man make this much of a difference, or is the Boomers offense that bad?

Awful coaching, awful rebounding, awful interior defence and very awful perimeter shooting, equally matched by the commentating.

Boomers offence has been tarrible in 2nd half, but our defense has been even worse - no weakside help when we double the ball and no rotation whatsoever

I'm embarassed as to how bad we are playing right now...

that was truly bad. What is going on with the rebounding? that is all effort and we just got beat time after time.

Fantastic effort by Nenad and the boys. Couldn'thave scripted it better. And the trophy to boot.

How can Jawai be so average around the basket offensively? Ingles is a very selfish player also, should've made the NBA based on that alone. Ogilvy/Jawai should've been used in tandem a bit more, it would've opened up for better 3s.

Yeah baby, thats how we do it. Congratz to NZ..We wanted it more and we got it. Ka Pai

Nice job by the Tall Blacks - can't take that away from them. They killed us.

Boomers????? Pathetic... Probably thought they had it won when they walked out on the court.

I hate to single out individual players - but...

Jawai as a total package - underwhelming to say the least (play okay / attitude woeful... that stuff with Vukona was especially pointless - and did he scream after that dunk when down by quite a margin - that's textbook Zee-Bo right there). I hope he he has mor to offer than what we saw these last two games...


Oh well - Goorjan must be smiling to himself quietly and sipping his Coke Zero

Here is my breakdown on the massive 100-78 loss:

- Jawai was good in second half (5/7), then sat too long in third when NZ got on a run. He then only nailed two more shots for the rest of the game and went 7/15 on shooting.
- Ogilvy was very impressive tonight, particulary in offence 14 points on 7/8 shooting. Only played at best around 4min in second half - why so few minutes when we were struggling to score???
- When NZ got on a big run in the 3rd, it took something like 8 straight points from NZ before a timeout was called. We were putting up shite and coach Brown did nothing to stem the flow before it got so big. After that run the Boomers never recovered.
- Delly was about our best player when everything was falling apart around him. What does that say about the other players on court in the 4th?
- Newley played well and tried hard - sometimes too hard as he tried to lift his team and thus forced a few too many
- James Harvey was a non-factor and played very poor D
- Boomers ran with a 4 guard 1 centre strategy later in the game and got smoked
- Rotation on defence on pick and rolls and on doubles was truly awful
- Rebounding was terrible again - lacked effort and desire to box out
- Ingles took some terrible shots in 4th quarter when things were not going well

Overall, the first half was not great, and was similar to the first game but we were able to effectibely score inside most of the time and mixed it up reasonably well.I thought the coaching was terrible. I am all for giving Brown a chance, but to me he caused a lot of the problems in the second half when thing got out of hand. Took too long to call a timeout, bad mix of players on court. Should have had Jawai, Ogilvy, Newley, Ingles and Delly on in 3rd quarter as they got the Boomers going in the 2nd.

For me, the positives for Australia were Dellavedova, AJ Ogilvy and Newley who I though played well but let himself down a few times by trying to do to much to bail his team out.

That will do for now...I'm still seething over the loss and more importantly the way we lost. It was really bad.

Been very unimpressed by Brown's coaching so far. Offense and defense has been awful. Baffling subs, purposeless offense lacking movement and structure, weak uninspiring D, little done to address rebounding deficiencies. All that Brown has done is uncovered the promise in Dellavadova and provided a stern stare on the sidelines.

BA can't afford to do a reactionary Phil-style sacking -- BG has got a job already.

Lemanis - the coach of the breakers was a strange selection, Shane heal should not be involved in coaching anywhere. When do boomers get back to Australia? If it's Sydney i'm goin there with my 'media pass' to 'throw bricks' at them.

I agree with some of the missing selections that Anonymous said including:

Shawn Redhage would have helped out heaps at small forward or power forward, its a joke he wasn't in the team. Put him in the team over Oscar any day of the week!!

David Barlow (maybe his injured?) I rate him higher then Ingles. He is a taller, stronger, a better defender, better scorer, better shooter and rebounder. Ingles gets a few more assist then him big deal.

Luke Schenscher should be in that team! Perhaps its because he has been injured but he hasn't been injured for a while. I would rather him in the team then Ogilvy! Ogilvy has great potential and will some day be better then Schenscher but at the moment he doesnt have the same experience as him! Also this apparent superstar that is NBA bound looked average in the series especially when a guy like Pledger dominates!

Glen Saville would have been another great person to have in this team however he probably has retired from international basketball.

Also Julian Khazzouh would have been able to contribute. If you think of it we had no blockers on that team. Maybe Jawai can get some but other then that we had no inside presence at all. Add to that Brown going with 4 guards and a center!

Finally even possibly Alex Loughton or Matthew Knight would have added value to that team. Rather then having dead wood in Harvey and Crawford.

It was horrible coaching by Brown and pathetic defense but the team they picked didn't help the cause.

australia's 'second' team drew with nz,then lost on a countback,big deal!
it's 'about right' in the big picture of things.
we bring in the 8 players missing, and that result would be 'about right' also.
oz would have only had to add patty mills tonight and the result would be different.

it was an offence clearly lacking direction.

brown can only do so much as a coach.
i wish i was joking, but im not and it pains me to say but he would have been better off bringing s.heal in at least to get a little direction.

we meet usa a little earlier,big deal,bring it on i cant wait.
by the incredibly high standard i saw at the last olympics ,we are sitting 'about right' in world rankings.

to change our position in world rankings we would have to change our basketball culture in oz..........a small country that plays too many different sports.

I learnt two things from this series:

Pledger > Ogilvy

Brett Brown < Brian Gorjian

i wonder if brett brown learnt anything.... maybe not to listen to his assistants.
heal- harvey
lemanis - foreman

i'm all for blooding young players etc but wtf were these selections about??

brown will be in for a long painful journey if he listens too closely.

maybe a sequence to price/heal coming up....stay tuned

Barlow's spanish team didn't let him play, remember he's considered an import over there, unlike Ingles.

I s'pose the same is for Maric and Kickert - who knows if they have been selected.

I'm surprised Harvey is so inneficient at this level, especially when we are playing against the NZ Breakers (+ a few more). Also Bogut, Mills, Andersen, Nielsen, Barlow, Wortho were not in the team.

It sucks that NZ was at full strength and we were nowhere near it because our players are too good to play in just the national league.

I'm assuming the Mavs have no interest in Jawai otherwise they would have probably stoppped him playing too, then again Bogut has played in a few NZ games after playin in NBA.

NZ werent at full strength.

NZ were very close to full strength - Marks, pero, jones etc have retired internationally. Bradshaw is only automatic selection and he's nowhere near as good as any of the aussie bigs that missed due to contractual probs.

Must say even though its our second string team our defence was terrible with our big guys. What was with the switches that left guys open it was half hearted double teams and being in the middle of nowhere like wtf???

Ingles though was our best player over the two games and maybe will crack into our best team. Give Brown the World Champs to see what he is really about.

I was very dissappointed by that game, We were schooled in every respect. I think the days of sniggering at our younger/smaller basketball brother with a sense of contempt are now definately over. I think, the Boomers hit the floor with the assumption that they had already won... We can Ill afford to think like this come WC's/Olympics.

undoubtably, we have a far more talented team then they do... even in this bare-bones version. what was lacking was direction, passion, a true point guard and an experienced head when things got tough down the stretch. Man for man, we have more talent, but New Zealand.. played like a better team.... and they truly do have that 'spirit', the underdog-ness that Australia once prided itself on....

All in all, the result.. is a most likely collision with team USA (or spain) in our group... I do not see this to be a big deal. It is probably best to confrunt a big one, or 2.. in the group stage... and as early on as possible... however, having said this... for the olympics AND W'C's... we were suppose to get favoured seeding due to winnign the al reamsey sheild, and we were undoubtably put in harder groups then NZ were... so you never know EXACTLY how it will all come to fruition.

In the end, on the upside... Dalledova was discovered.. his Defense was tough, he is a good shot and a safe ball handler, and would make a good prospect for point guard behind CJ, Patty and possibly he and Gibbo will be kneck and kneck for that last spot. jawai, wasnt the Jawai I remember dominating the NBL for the Cairns Taipans... both of his games have been somewhat subpar... however, he will be great for the boomers in future.

alot of guys, werent really shown off this series, guys like damien martin and peter crawford were seldom seen.

On the upside, we were playing what is pretty much the fall strength New Zealand team... missing 10 of our best players..

I'm still a Goorj fan for him been Australia's best option as a coach. But obviously that ain't gonna happen.

Let's just see how Brown's gonna go, he's stll learning.

Well, gotta give the Kiwis props - they played hard and shot the lights out in the 3rd and our young guys completely lost composure when those shots started going in.

Prior to that, we looked the better offensive team, with the Kiwis having no answer to either Jawai in the post or Ingles/ Newley with the pick and roll. Given the way we were executing those plays with ease, I am surprised a few people on here were critical of our offence.

It wasn't our offence that was the problem. That only fell apart once the Kiwi blitzkrieg got running and our guys lost their composure.

The F*ING GIGANTIC problem was that our team couldn't stop a slightly energetic turtle from getting to the basket!

Jawai - whoever brought up Zee-bo earlier is right on - great low post scorer but like Randolph has ZERO mobility and can't get up to block shots, hence that Benny Anthony character was scoring like he was back in state league at one point!

Ogilvy was generally decent tonight, but he's no centre and not a strong enough rebounder or physical presence to hold down the middle by himself.

Baynes - what happened? He was out of position on one play early and was forced to jack up an awful three, then they showed him having a spit during a timeout and didn't see him after that. He must have seriously pissed Brown off, because the coach decided to run only Ogilvy and Jawai for the rest of the game and he must have known our lack of size was killing us!

As LC and others pointed out earlier, combine no paint defence with nearly non-existent rotations and the Kiwis were basically able to do as they pleased.

As with the last time we lost a series to NZ, we were just too under-manned. If we'd just had a fit Schenscher, that would probably have made all the difference defensively. But to fair to Brown, Luke was too unfit when the team was picked and has only just been picked for the team to China today.

I actually thought Ingles and Newley were pretty good, with both clearly too good for their opponents offensively. They were ok on the defensive end, but clearly need the help of a good defensive rotation and our big men were just too slow afoot to help them out. Worthington would have been massive for us in this regard, being able to get out to stop penetration off high screens and recover to defend the basket.

I agree that Dellavedova showed he had a cool head and is a keeper for the national program.

Harvey looks shot - too slow on defence and too hesitant about his role on offence.

Oscar was out of his depth unfortunately. He never should have been asked to start for Worthington and Vukona burned him badly. Can anyone else believe Vukona top scored with 26 points and had 12 rebounds and 2 blocks?!?!

All in all, terrible loss for the Boomers. Historic win for the Kiwis, who will take a great deal of confidence from this game.

a little fun fact- Mika don't lift weights! that guy is naturally built with great athleticism!

when is the replay??

6am tomorrow morning.

That price to pay for getting an NBA coach who has a little knowledge about FIBA Brand Basketball. China used to be a very good passing team but was altered by another NBA coach in Dell Harris who, of course, likes the isolation plays as in NBA in which the Chinese and the rest of the FIBA playing nations are less familiar of. now, brace for more mess while Goorjian will expectedly share his knowledge to Basketball China. thats what we get Australia, too much of one dayers and tries that we're still figuring out what is a real basketball coaching. only in Australia that you can become a basketball coach even if you didnt know how to play the actual game. just go to a school for coaching and you're on.

"become a basketball coach even if you didnt know how to play the actual game"

this is a comment I've heard quite often but I kind of disagree with it to some extent. what I've always said is: you don't necessarily need to be an ex-pro player to be a good coach. eg. somebody like Usane Bolt, does that mean he says "f you coach! you never ran this fast! so don't try to coach me"

with that said good coach need to have great knowledge for the game and I do agree with pi in that many coaches here still lacks understanding on different facets of the game.

what have amused me is a great coach like goorj gets so much dislike instead of been a guy people look to learn from.

because Australia hates american Sports and Goorj the American is getting big in Australian sports that the tall poppy had to be cut! but oh, somehow we are fascinated with American brand that we cant make our mind and this is it, we got another american a popular one from NBA champion team. thats it. we like now we get it.

Nice summary Beantown. Tall Blacks caught the momentum train in that third quarter (and except for a jittery minute or two early in 4th Quarter),that was enough to open up a psychological gap that had Boomers under pressurethe rest of the way. And of course when you are riding that wave things go for you. Mika banking a three from out front(never mind all of his jumpers AND FREE THROWS, Penney shoots from corner and gets the friendliest kiss off the glass,what looked like a turnover breakaway and Joe Ingles just clips Fitchetts heels, but thats what sport is all about and the Boomers have to fight through that.
Personnel wise, Boomers erred badly playing Oscar so much in that third quarter. Not that he did too much wrong its just that he can't contribute in that situation and of course his defence is so weak. Can only presume this misguided thinking comes from Andrei (given that same senario at Breakers). Newley was classy and we couldn't shut him down. Ogilvy with those pick and rolls to hoop looked much better than G1 and its hard to see why he didn't play much in that dreaded 3rd quarter. What was with the Peter Crawford sub in then 4th, never sighted in series and asked to perform a miracle???
Penney played it perfectly last night. Did not overshoot and made passes. Mika was the man. But the most telling contribution came from Alex Pledger with his offensive board work and medium range set shots.
That game gave the TallBlacks confidence and lifted the Basketball public's moral after a the TAB era where little if any development took place. To the future. the YOUNG BLACKS!!!

we'll take that.

sure aus was missing some quality players. we'll still take it.

props to the youngsters who got it done. Jawai looked below average and Newley and Ingles had a tough job but played well.
Pledger was awesome
BJ Anthony got it done.
I never thought that was going to happen :)

I woke up this morning and just didn't feel right. There is an emptiness inside of me, a distinct feeling of hurt and disappointment...

Gaze said he was involved in the Boomers last camp. Give him a more prominent role I say, it's gotta only be a matter of time surely.

If someone knows international ball, it is that man through and through.

pledger to the nba

Bill, I think Oscar did his part in that stretch before the gap widened. The times it looked like he was beaten, he was having to leave his man to chase Ogilvy's. Ogilvy has some good moments on offense, but poor patches on defense then.

Agree about those rough rolls though - Penney's three, Vukona's three, Fitchett hitting the prayer (again!), Ingles' unsportsmanlike which was ugly but a clear play at the ball, Fitchett tripping on his own foot and Ingles getting the foul, etc.

KingJames:

Shawn Redhage - Ballinger was picked for the training camp ahead of Redhage and then unavailable because of his wife's pregnancy.

David Barlow - not injured, played in South America but then had to depart for Europe before they played the actual tournament.

Luke Schenscher - back injury concerns.

Glen Saville - got calls but didn't make himself available, AFAIK.

Julian Khazzouh - wasn't even at the camp?

Alex Loughton - wasn't even at the camp.

Matthew Knight - was at the early camps before the first Chinese tour but wasn't picked.


Remember that they see these guys at camps and make decisions on what they see, not what fans think might work OK. e.g., Damian Martin is likely to start as Wildcats PG, but barely got time behind Dellavedova. Who would've picked that choice before the camps?

The boomers played even worse than the commentating and the commentating was pure trash!!!!!
Why was Ingles left on for so long? How's his whinging under the basket after being nailed by a screen, and whilst he sits on the floor having a cry to the ref, his player gets an offensive board and scores. Sums up the entire game really.
Australia were way too individual, the coaching was terrible and our Aussie spirit was no where to be seen.
All credit to the Kiwi's, they did play an outstanding game and obviously wanted it more than the aussies!! They played like a true unselfish team, it was very classy!

Bill, enjoy your win mate. Your boys definitely gave you optimism for the future. Pledger looked very solid and Abercrombie showed some good flashes with his alley and a jumper in the last quarter.

I don't think it was an error for the Boomers to play Oscar so much in the game though. It was actually forced on Brown through a combination of poor team selection and Wortho getting injured.

That problem was magnified when Baynes got yanked after 53 secs by Brown and never returned to the game. After that, the Boomers big man rotation was Ogilvy, Jawai and Oscar.

Basically, Brown found out the hard way that Jawai is too slow to rotate on defence and Ogilvy is too inexperienced to play it consistently. Placed in that situation, Oscar was always on a hiding to nothing, because he hasn't got the bulk/ rebounding ability to hold down the keyway by himself.

LC, was it you who said they had seen a bit of Ogilvy at Vandy? Could it be that Ogilvy plays a lot of zone in college? Because he really looked lost out there trying to rotate effectively in the man to man.

Isaac, I had the idea that Khazzouh and Matt Knight were already overseas chasing contracts and that was why they weren't available for the Boomers? At least I hope they weren't available, because based on last nights game, those two guys would clearly have done a better job defensively and on the boards and should have been selected.

Yep - seen quite a few of AJ's games. He is definitely an offensive player first and foremost and is a highly skilled on at that too! He has great moves in the post, regulalry draws fouls and gets to the line, and is also a great passer of the ball -clearly evident at Vandy where they have a plethora of spot up 3-point shooters.

Vanderbilt play primarily man-toman defence, but AJ is not the best defender on the team by any stretch of the imagination. He has shown he can be affective on help defence as he averaged 1.5 blocks per season at college. But he does have his obvious troubles both guarding the post (strength) and on the perimeter (foot speed).

I predominantly agree with DraftExpress' assessment of AJ in relation to his defensive abilities and rebounding:

- "He is clearly nothing more than an average defender at best, as he often gives up position deep in the post to opposing big men, struggles to move his feet rotating inside the paint, and displays questionable lateral quickness trying to defend the perimeter with his flat-footed upright stance."

- "Getting stronger will help, but he'll need to get tougher and more aggressive as well, particularly on the glass, where he appears to get outhustled at times going after rebounds." But in relation to this comment, AJ picks up a lot of his reounds on the offensive end and can read the ball well.

However during Game 2 when we were struggling to score, I found it comical that he was left sitting on the bench considering he was our most effective scoring option in the game! Brown's substitutions and on-court mixes at times were puzzling to say the least!

LC, thanks for the info Ogilvy. With regard to the substitution issue, I think that would have amounted to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!

As I mentioned above, after Baynes was benched, we had only three big men, one of which was Oscar, who wasn't the player we needed. We basically needed both Jawai and Ogilvy in at the same time, but if we did that, we wouldn't be able to bring in any fresh legs. So I think Brown just decided he was going to rotate the two big guys and hope Oscar could do some damage offensively (which unfortunately didn't eventuate).

Actually, with regard to Baynes, there still appears to be no mention of his benching in the media. I think it says it all about the quality of basketball coverage that we get, that Brown doesn't seem to have been asked why he benched one of his big guys when we desperately needed rebounding and defensive help. He should have been asked and his answer should have been included in the match report.

Good point about Baynes. Does anyone know what actually happened? Isaac - any inside info on that?

Baynes took two shots and air-balled both. Got dragged from what I could see. Then later, was shown getting fired up with Marty Clarke, disputing something?

While Oscar didn't have a great series here, their role for him obviously worked in that Argentina game, as one example. Just seemed that he and Harvey had few opportunities based on the offensive strategy for the team. Had Worthington played, I think the result could've been quite different.

Despite his 3/3 FG in the first game, Oscar didn't have much in the way of highlights. His four boards last night in 18 minutes were only beaten by Jawai (9 in 22) and Newley (5 in 36) - not special, but not horrific either considering that on offense they would clear out of Jawai's way so he had room to move.

Radelaide, I think that was Ingles' one lazy moment. The rest of the time, when I expected him to jack a prayer, he made smart plays with a pick and roll for Ogilvy or getting to the hole and having a layup roll out. Was probably a touch overplayed and his numbers were down, but I was actually impressed by some of his decisions.

Gaze selected Brown - keep him away!

Bagging Ingles is a bit harsh, he got Ogilvy to finally make a contribution thanks to Joe's outstanding passing out of the pick and roll.

How much better does AJ look away from the low block, catching the ball on his way to the basket? Shame we didnt run more high pick and roles, NZ had few answers to it but instead we went back to throwing the ball to the low block??

But yes, couldnt really leave AJ on much, as his rebounding and defence are just a massive concern. Still, give him time and he may develop to the level required.

from how it looked on tv,baynes was going to set a pick for jawai and jawai didnt want it,he waved baynes out of there so he could (again,yawn) go one on one and baynes obviously didnt get it.

it looked like there was words exchanged on the bench and baynes looked like a kid who had his lollypop taken off him.

i think brown should have tested his mettle and put him back out there,i know goorjian would have.

an angry young 7 footer was what we needed !!

Bill, a bit harsh on Tab - he was the one who developed the last lot of blokes, now Nenad is bringing through the next generation. Tab was trying to win, the current crop of youngsters weren't ready at that stage, and he did give Tait and Vukona opportunities.

NZ definitely weren't at full strength.

The only old boys that hasve definitely retired are Sean Marks and Dillion. Pero, Paora, Phil, Paul and Mark just were not available.

The reason this win was good was because only four or five guys in the Kiwi side are even starters in the New Zealand league. The majority of the TB players that played in this season are young and in the first (or first couple) of years in the NZ NBL which is no where near the standard of the ANBL.

Most of the players that played in this series will probably get dropped for the World Champs next year when every one else becomes available.

The reason it was a good win is because all the Ozzy players have had NCAA Div I experience or ANBL experience, except that really young kid who played in the Under 19 world champs who put the lock down on Kirk Penny.

"an angry young 7 footer was what we needed !! "

Ben Pepper has retired.

Baynes first air-ball wasn't his fault - he received the ball with only a second or so on the shot clock and had to heave it up.

The second one was his fault. He ended up on the perimeter passing the ball in to Jawai in the post and Jawai was waving for him to move away from that side of the floor, because his man was sagging off and doubling in the post. Unfortunately Baynes didn't move off and Jawai was forced to kick it out to him with the shot clock running down.

At that point he got dragged, but I assume he would have come back in once the coaches had straightened him out. I saw that animated discussion on the bench and Baynes didn't look happy. But what I want to know is the actual reason for his not playing the rest of the game?

Its a pretty significant thing for the coach to not play a guy we clearly needed when we were in deep trouble in a game that is for WC seeding and the Trans-Tasman trophy (forgot what it is called).

So was the decision justified or not? My guess is that it probably was, but I don't really know, not being a good lip reader!

Noah, I was really impressed by Anthony. I saw two Heat games the year they had Oscar and Behrendorff and BJ was very raw and off the bench. Fast forward a bit and he's, quite incredibly, contributing well within the Tall Blacks!

Beantown, what do you base "clearly needed" on? From the boxscores I saw from South America, Baynes soaked up some fouls but I can't remember any outstanding lines. On Sunday night, he had some good blocks, but it was Ogilvy that played with the four guards as they closed out the game.

Isaac, I actually don't know if Baynes would have changed the result, because I have never seen him play. I'm purely basing it on the fact that we were heavily out-rebounded, Ogilvy and Jawai couldn't defend the rim and Baynes was the only other possibility on the roster.

So in the sense that we were short-handed in the big man department, we clearly needed Baynes to step up, but he never got the chance. I just don't know if it was his fault or the coaching staff!

I was at the game. Anthony did a great job, but to say that performance was better than any of Bradshaw's is ignorant and incorrect.

Bradshaw was named MVP of the FIBA Oceania Championship a few years ago, when he scored 25 points in the Tall Blacks first ever win in Melbourne.

Its unfortunate that Bradshaw has gone off the rails though.

Out of our big guys on the current Boomers team, Baynes is the best defender of the lot of them. You have to keep in mind that Baynes played 4 years of college ball in a defensively minded Washington State program and he started for 3 of those 4 years. Not having Baynes on court at times was detrimental to the Boomers defence.

An angry Baynes could have been a huge difference. Could have, should have, he was enver given a chance - rightly or wrongly. We just don't know!

Bradshaw can go play in korea forever.

Right about Bradshaw's performance in Melbourne that night in 2006, but it wasn’t the FIBA Oceania Championship, it was just a four game warm up before the WCs (Oceania Champs are in odd years).

Anthony had a crack in both games and defended well, but before you get too carried away look at his numbers for the series. Just a guy who contributed a little bit off the bench, albeit a pleasant surprise and promise for the future given his age.

As for this squad not playing next year, BBNZ was given a clear directive after 2007 to play young players or lose funding. Penney, Vukona, Pledger, Abercrombie, Webster, Tait and Loe will all be in Turkey. Anthony would be a fair chance if he continues to improve in Germany.

Cameron and Bradshaw will come back in, and maybe Rickert if he is naturalised. Is Dickel still interested after two years off? He was terrible in 2007. I think NZ is better off blooding the young players in Turkey.

My tuppence worth about BJ. He was a revelation. The difference between him and Bradshaw is that he wants the ball in the low block and makes use of his put it on the floor skills to wheel and take it to hoop or shoot the turnaround.He was not inmtimidated by Jawai and out quicked him. I have always considered him too short except at Avondale HS where 6'4" was plenty big enough. How tall is he now? Bradshaw continually wants to live on the perimeter and finds it more comfortable facing the basket. Thats the last thing the Tall Blacks need from their only genuine big. Pero has got a lock on that roll.
Sorry Paul have to take issue over Tab, the team barely changed throughout his tenure. He inherited a veteran team from Keith Mair and what did he leave? True Mika, and Tait were given bit parts but who else? Agreed after that 4th placing at the Worlds the emphasis did change to results as a priority, but look at what he left Nenad, Kirk, Mika and an ageless, oft injured Pero. Nenad is developing a broad base and the medium term prospect is bright.

Good points Bill.

When I said that BJ gave better then Craig, I wasn't necessarily refering to his scoring I was more refering to his passion, committment and energy AND just really wanting to be part of the programme.

Interesting comment Paul that BBNZ were given a directive in 2007 to play young players or lose funding, I wonder then why this is the first year they really did this. Had the old boys all made themselves available you can bet your bottom dolloar that they would have been picked for this team.

Of course, Mika, Tait, Kirk will be in WC team. They've been part of the TB programme for years now. They'll also definitely take Abercrombie, hard to argue with that choice when you are rookie of the year as well as a whole raft of other award winners. Pledger will probably go too, but not Loe, Casey, Jarrod, and maybe not Leon or Cory. Depends really who makes themselves available for WC.....

Definitely agree about Anthony's passion and energy. If he can develop a jumpshot he could become a very handy player. Love the way he goes about it.

Saying he is better than Bradshaw is just way out of line though Bill. Bradshaw averaged 11 and 6 at the World Championships. He also had 9p and 8r ast the Olympic qualifying tournament, although struggled offensively. Then 11p and 3r against a good Australian team in 2007.

Anthony averaged 8pts and 5 boards against a pretty average Australian team. Not knocking him, his defence was fantastic, and he plays with more intensity than Bradshaw, but the quality isnt there that Craig has.

Titan, if you look at the two teams NZ has put out since that 2007 Oceania series, first in the Olympic Qualifying tournament and then this year, it is plain to see they have turned to developing youth. Apparently they were given little choice, but it was the right move anyway.

Sure, Cameron and one other older player (as well as Bradshaw) may come back in for Henry, Frank and Kenny, but there wont be a wholesale return to the failed team of 2006.

I agree Tab didnt develop a young team, but Tait, Vukona and Bradshaw all got opportunities, and there wasnt really a talented young group coming through back then like there is now.

well, we'll live with Brown at the moment until we suck up.

A decent performance in Game 1 and then a big win by NZ erases memories of what seemed like a pretty average European tour just prior!

Titan 18...You said Pledger will probably go to the world champs next year. You better change that to DEFINATELY be going, he averaged 15.5 pts and 9.5 rebounds in the ozzie series in 21 mins a game and with the european tour he averaged 9pts and 7.8 rbs in 20 mins a game for the 10 game international season (8 in europe and 2 against Oz)

He was there best big IMO this year and will definately be in the team next year, potentially starting at the WC's and sliding Bradshaw to the PF spot

Assuming Rickert becomes naturalised by then...The point I was making was that he HAS solidified his spot for turkey next year

Would be a nice line-up for sure. Won't happen. Dickel is past his prime, and Marks will not play. Still, NZ will not be the worst team at the next WC.

.. and only one shooter in the starting lineup - wouldnt put too many points on the board.

If Rickert can get back to the 18p 12r player hewas in his first year he will be handy internationally, but the lacking power and athleticism 13p 9r Rickert is still around I think he is just good for small minutes at the WCs.

Agreed Paul

If Rickert was eligible he might help but his game has deteriorated to garbage status.Only seems to go left for his right J hook. Pledger not as strong but a way better 15-20'J would be more productive. Dickel won't be required and Jones would only play if Penney was injured. They both can't play at same time from a defensive standpoint.
Rightly you point out the team lacks offence and there is no way Vukona will repeat his G2 heroics. BJ could help but he is small internationally. Abercrombie still seems a little hesitant but he has got some skills if he can just take that next step.
Webster a little erratic. Penney showing much better creative skills making passes which he has not shown in past so that might help.

Agreed. And I wanted to post a reply to be number 100 for this thread!

Bill - you beat me to post 100! Arrrgh!

Pledger has def put his hand up for a spot a the WC. Rickett doesn't bring alot offensively but his rebounding and hustle would def be an asset to NZ at the worlds. We just need another couple of scorers to help Penny out.