Luc Longley retired.

Australia shifted away from the Yank-love to get their backs up about many things American. I think that might've been the single biggest change and it's worked well in the favour of the AFL ('our own sport').

At some point, the NBL got the stench of death about it, much of the public started to view it as a loser's league and it's been an up-hill battle since then.

Much is made about the change in season, but I think that's as much a coincidence of timing as it has had a significant impact on the sport.

The biggest change in support comes from the media. Crowds outside NSW and Victoria are still pretty reasonable and it's probably no coincidence that Perth and Adelaide (and probably FNQ) get a good run in their respective media.

Tough question to answer - someone want to do a PhD on this?

Factors I think may have contributed (Note: I'm not claiming to be knowledgeable about this, so don't rely on my views):

1. AFL got its sh!t together in the early 90s when they finally got the Crows to join their glorified VFL and then started developing a highly sophisticated marketing machine that quickly captured the FTA market.

2. NBL lost a talented exec in Mal Speed to Cricket Australia. If he had stayed, could he have guided the NBL so it resisted the challenge of the AFL better? Or did he leave because he knew the organisation was dysfunctional and had no chance?

3. NBL gained popularity very quickly and unexpectedly. Was that peak in popularity just a fad? There is always that section of the population that will dive into something with enthusiasm for 6 months and then just as quickly drop it for the next big thing. I always felt there was an element of that with the Kings of the early 90s, and perhaps their failure to win a title back then had a significant effect on how many stayed with basketball long term?

4. Some of basketball's popularity in the late 80s and then early 90s was generated by the incredible rivalry of Magic's Lakers and Bird's Celtics and then the emerging global brand Jordan. As the 90s developed though, the kinds of stars and type of play that emerged in the NBA turned a lot of Aussies off (many just weren't interested in all that isolation one on one play and the tats and bling and hip hop, etc).

5. Andrew Gaze starring for Seton Hall and playing in the NCAA title game and Luc Longley getting drafted high, then winning championships with the Bulls had to have people enthusiastic about talent in Australia. Did people lose some of that enthusiasm when they realised that Gaze and Longley, while both successful players, were never going to match the exploits of true NBA stars?

so drew ... are you talking about basketball or about the nbl? basketball, speaking generally, is in awesome shape.

i think also the end of mj's career put the final nail in the coffin.
his impact was more international than just being seen as an american.

we can go through the whole nbl mis-management thing again,but i'd rather not !!

basically,we are at rock bottom with media confidence in general around oz.

cairns certainly get their fair share,the aba and even the 3rd tier regional 'super league' get a good run in cairns media,which is probably why grassroots ball is so popular there.

Other sports copied the family-kid friendly things the NBL was doing so well, the NBL stopped doing many of them, and the other sports went flying by.

But the level of popularity reached was unsustainable, particualrly with the level of play at the time not being super.

Bean, I think the impact of Gaze and Longley would've been minimal. I also don't think your AFL point is significant. Not sure that #2 was a primary contributor and is a bit of a "what if" anyway. I think #3 and #4 are related.

IMO, it was a fad driven by those emerging NBA superstars. There were ads here, merchandise, basketball cards, all of that. The league rode that wave and then it dropped away as Australian patriotism grew. The season change, Wrublewski's success, etc - I think the timing of those could well have been coincidental.

Once that "it's a Yank sport" meme spreads, and then the bad news rolls in and sticks to the brand of professional basketball in Australia, it's rough to overcome.

From memory the AFL also specifically targetted sports such as BBall and Soccer (probably still do) to try and get more youngsters playing AFL than other ball sports. The AFL (IMO) tend to see all other sports as a threat to their marketing dominance.

COMPLACENCY! When things were going well, everyone involved thought it would never change. Wrong.

When success is at its peak, that is when the hardest work must be put in to sustain it. Didn't happen - the results were and are obvious for all to see.

ghost, thats just a glib statement. Just put everything down to complacency.... how would you know if club and league front offices were complacenet?

I think BA do an amazing job considering their resourcing, but others see them as hopeless - others might see them as complacent - but you can't just assign that as a root cause unless you know.

Paul, what were the 'family-kid friendly' things? Like NBL players turning up to schools to do clinics? That kind of thing?

How confidently can we say that the NBL started these things? (I can't say as I was too young back in the 80s - all I remember is my mate getting into basketball due to a clinic Mark Davis put on in '86 - and getting me into it after).

Isaac, won't argue over Gaze/ Longley as I don't know - just speculating. But I'm interested to know why you think the mass expansion of the AFL into a limited media space in the 90s (and thus the public consciousness) was not a significant factor in the slide of the NBL?

The Yank sport thing is obviously a factor for some people (my dad always complains about the yank noise and glitz at basketball games) but I'd be surprised if it was a major factor in turning people off the competition - I know just as many people who love US culture as hate it.

I feel as though basketball really grabbed hold of people as something new and exciting at the start of the 90s, but it was not very deeply rooted and so when a good national product became available in the AFL and strong media support was locked in behind it, many people were drawn back into the football world.

Perhaps that could have been better resisted by basketball administrators/ marketers, but its also possible that football was a tidal wave that was always going to sweep everything before it. Don't really know, but I'll always follow basketball, then soccer... football is a distant 4th behind cricket for me.

Basketball at grass roots level has never been better IMO. It is the NBL that fell apart.
Whilst there are probably plenty of contributing factors, I think an important one was the fact the NBL lost contact and buy-in with the grass roots level.

Michael Jordan retiring.

He got people interested in basketball who otherwise had no idea about the sport.

I think it's no coincidence that when he retired, no new fans were gained and others became bored and the NBL went downhill.

I think LC is spot on. Other factors like Jordan, American culture backlash etc played a part, but the numbers at grassroots level continued to grow - the NBL and clubs just didnt do anywhere near a good enough job of harnessing that area, as funds went increasingly toward player payments

FWIW - there was a steady and continuous fall in participation in court sports through the 1990s, in Australia. This is based on Australian Bureau of Statistics figures across that decade. Whether that reflected a change in the population that also affected interest in spectating at court sports, I don't know.

It's impossible to ignore the fact that the AFL grew like topsy after it became perceived as a truly national competition. That affected every other professional sporting league in Australia, regardless of how well they were run.

I think you will find that basketball participation grew over that time. Although there are so many different sets of statistics.

The irony was that aussie rules participation continued to drop while the AFL became more popular in that time.

I'm 100% positive that basketball participation increased also over this time.

This has been done to death in previous threads, but as I have previously stated, a definite disconnect with the grass roots level was a major contributing factor the the decline of the NBL and crowds attending games.

Poor Administration! When the opportunity was there in late 80's and 90's through sponsorship, the clubs decided to take the money and start paying the player ridiculous salaries, in stead of creating cashflow. Every business must have cashflow to survive. This would have reduced the need to rely large sponsorship contributions and ticket sale (most teams gave away tickets to fill the stadiums for TV).

Also like administrators in today's NBL and those in the past they are just that, administrators, not INNOVATORS they continue to make the same mistakes as there predecessors before them. The NBL has NOT looked after the GAME it self, what they fail to realize is that they are in the BASKETBALL business and NOT the Sydney Kings, Melbourne Tigers or Perth Wildcats business. Like one writer here said they should take a year off and rethink the whole thing over. Then get back to the grass root people where there support is waiting. I could continue but that's enough for one day!

ex-nbl player. The irony of your comment is that you lament high payments to players. beantown laments the loss of mal Speed, who was Chair but never CEO of the league.

And the irony.... it was Mal Speed who prescribed, in the mid-nineties, that one of the success indicators of the nbl would be that it had the highest paid team sports persons in Australia .... (or very similar words).

Basketball picked up when we started to get NBA on tv here and it died soon after they stopped televising nba on australian free to air tv. i hope one's coverage will help get things going again but the young kids liked basketball action that used to be every saturday morning

you need to put all of this in world context. Most national leagues in world basketball have attendances that are as poor as the nbl, even eureleague attendances are not fantasic. Basketball does not sell out anywhere in the world, and that includes the NBA, with the exception of the true tribal environment of college ball.

Anon - not sure if you're all the same person - I think we all agree that the NBL was poorly run for the past decade plus. But it really is not as simple as the NBL screwed up. Basketball doesn't exist in a vacuum and you have to give some credit to the strategies of the AFL, who have been absolutely dominant in selling their code since the early to mid 90s.

HO, I wasn't suggesting Mal Speed was the be all and end all, but he did have a good reputation in the early 90s and then Cricket Australia went from strength to strength after he went there. Without knowing all the ins and outs, I had a good impression of him. Hence why I was wondering aloud as to whether his leaving could have had a major impact on the league at the time.

You seem to think Mal wasn't much good, but the only comment you made was that he thought one success indicator would be if the NBL had the highest paid players. Well, that could be one success indicator if you ask me. It wouldn't be the only one, but certainly if you want to get the best athletes playing your sport, you have to offer the best money - its just the way the world works!

Still, I'm no insider, so I can well believe that you might be right about Mal. I don't know all the factors that contributed to the NBL's fall from grace. That's why I asked if anyone wanted to do a PhD on the subject earlier!

beantown. no disrespect to your comments mate.

All i did was comment on the irony that exists between the comments made by you and ex-nbl player. One of you is lamenting the loss of a fine administrator who believed player payments should be sky high, the other of you is lamenting high salaries! It just goes to prove that there are no clear causal effects for where we are now....

Mal was a good chair, but Bill Palmer was a brilliant CEO, who became the scapegoat for the decline in crowds despite maintaining the involvement of major corps like mitsubishi and maintaining FTA coverage. Palmer's work with Rugby League since he left basketball has set them up for a fantastic future.

Since him the list reads (from memory).....Rymarz (awful), Ali (ineffective), Burton (showman not salesman), Chuck (lovable and cuddly only).

LOL HO, I'm following you now! I had forgotten Palmer. Now that I think back, I had a positive view of him as well at the time. Its a shame that the NBL had so many ineffectual heads after him.

BTW, I am actually one of those who has been arguing that the NBL needs to cut its cloth to fit its revenues. If that means salaries fall to semi-professional levels for some, so be it. I'd rather have a stable, grass roots league with a cult following than a high flying league with teams going under every 5 years!

Hopefully the NBL is going to get back on track again soon and that won't be necessary though!

No/minimal FTA television coverage on a commercial network and the explosion of the internet making the NBA much more accessible.

Simple. Basketball was the hottest ticket in town when the NBL was on FTA TV every week. NBA appeals to a certain faction, but to get large numbers of bums on seats it has to be local & tribal - hence the success of AFL and the rising success of soccer. If you can watch your local team on TV, know the names of a few players & get a bit of hype on TV news and in the paper the people will come.

You know you are hitting the spot when the Premier or PM want to be seen at the game giving their support. It happened with basketball in the 80s/early 90s & it is happening now with AFL.

Be sure, the first thing AFL execs do on Monday morning is to look at the crowd figures for the weekend.

At the moment, the NBL is so anonymous that a whole team could walk down the street without anyone being recognised.

That's not quite true DaddyO - everyone knows they are an NBL team because they are so tall! But I know what you mean.

Excluding Aussie Rules, most other "traditional" sports are losing impact.

IMO this is related to the accessibility of more alternative entertainment, eg cable tv, internet, etc. Also more and more alternative sports, bmx, x games, etc etc.

Simply i think change is natural and less people will go to cricket and basketball, more will go online or watch the crusty demons.

DaddyO I agree with you that a player could walk down the street and not be recognised but shouldn't this be the responsibilty of each club to get their players out in the community not the NBL as a whole. There is no reason why regular appearances at westfield shopping centres on thursday nights or saturday/sunday afternoons with poster signings, dunking and shooting comps ect couldn't be arranged so the public to get to know these guys.

Anonymous, I disagree that the NBL doesn't have a responsibility to ensure players are well recognised in the community. The league can't leave the promotion of its product up to the teams, because only some teams have proven to be adept at it. The league needs to drive the promotion of basketball at all levels as part of its core business and building the profile of key athletes to promote the game around is a big part of that.

Beantown is right. The NBL does have a responsibility - whether it does it itself or ensures the clubs do it - it is their role as the governing body to make sure it happens.

GET BACK TO WORK AJ

Killers of the NBL

- Poor management.
- Too much focus on entertainment, loud music through the game rather then only timeouts.
- Lack of media exposure preventing the making of 'stars' - eg Andrew Gaze, Bruce Bolden, James Crawford etc.
- A massive pitfall was the TV rights issue. It was a crime no NBL was on free to air during its demise. (remember Quarters commentating on CH10. the game needs a media ambassador to help spread the word and engage some enthusiasm.
- When MJ retired alot of people turned off from bball. The bandwagon fans had no knowledge of any other player or team... "no, Magic Johnson has also retired." And thus the interest in Basketball waned.
- AFL, Rugby, Soccer, Art/Ent. There is so much competition especially in big cities like Melb/Syd.
- No bball culture. We are 'aussie' and alot of 'aussies' hate 'US' culture/sport even though we seem to imitate then in most areas.
Hopefully, now with free to air NBA coverage people will take another look at this great game.

My wife figured this one out a few weeks ago. The Glasshouse in Melbourne closed in mid 1998, signally the beginning of the end for the NBL.

The NBL's peaked in the mid to late 90s. With three Melbourne based teams (Giants/Magic/Tigers) local derby games saw Flinders Park sold out. Free to air coverage in primetime on Ten. In 1996 the NBL revoked the licenses of the Supercats, the Gold Coast Rollers and the Hobart Devils. In 1998 the Glasshouse in Melbourne closed. Consequently the North Melbourne Giants merged with the Magic to form the Titans and the death spiral began.

The NBL was in some ways a victim of its own success. With the Magic and Tigers moving to Flinders Park, the Giants were left as the sole tenant at the Glasshouse. Hiring costs at Flinders Park were significantly higher than the Glasshouse, which wasn't a problem until the 1998/99 switch to summer and Mitsubishi's withdrawal as naming rights sponsor in late 2000.

High venue hiring costs + no naming rights sponsor + no revenue from TV rights = dead dead dead.

I predict the NBL in its current form will fail too. Look at the ticket prices. No way will I pay $42 to take my son to watch the Tigers. $18 for a child ! Are you insane ?

Peter you would only be insane if you followed the Tigers. Wouldnt go if tickets were a $1- :)

I remember watching Magic vs Tigers at Rod Laver, apparently first game with the roof open, the place was full to the brim, the NBL used to be awesome, not knowing all the in's and out's of the behind the scenes but I enjoyed it and even when Magic disappeared I followed the Titans, and at that stage Vodafone arena was still mostly full. I don't think the AFL killed it too much. I think think the cost of admission to not just NBL but other sports such as AFL and even State Cricket to a certain extent killed it. We used to go to both AFL and NBL games and when they both became expensive we gave up NBL because going to the games became less fun. They sorta stopped doing the things kids like like photos with the mascots like Magic Man and even when myself and my girlfriend went to watch the Dragons last season, I heard that most of the people at the game got in with free shop a docket tickets. Free stuff brings people in but unless you're giving the people something they want to see, it's not going to hold up too long.
The other killer was Channel 10, when it went off free to air, I remember watching it on Fox Sports for a little while but then Foxtel would play other sports instead.
If channel 10 had kept it on and plugged it and plugged it mid day on the weekends instead of having crap on that kids werent interested in, maybe it'd still have a decent following.

It is very obvious to a non-aussie person. Activities such as AFL and rugby are trying their best to get as much cash from the government and invest in marketing.

Of course, MJ retiring, Luc Longley, etc, have contributed but not as near as skill-less cricket, AFL, netball and rugby management.

Here's an example:
Yugoslavia (Serbia, Croatia, etc):
- no-one cares about US,
- definitely lack of funds,
- outdoor courts everywhere,
- football (soccer) is much bigger..
- Yugoslavs are champions in voleyball, waterpolo, handball... and still, basketball is sacred and untouchable.

Helping activities (not sports) such as AFL, netball, cricket and rugby, that is played only in few countries, makes others laugh. No pun intended.

I know this is a really old thread but I want to get in on this topic to a certain degree.

I remember some clear indicators that things were changing. I remember one year in the mid 90's a PR firm released a poll showing that Michael Jordan was Austrlaian kiddies favourite sports personality. I recall at the time it caused quite a lot of consternation. My partner, a teacher, not long after told me that schools were actively pushing domestic sports, primarily AFL to the primary school kiddies. I also remember around the same time so many teams coming and going through insolvency and license purchasing. But, for mine, one of the bigget killers of the sport in this country was just the how over-hyped it was. We had no traditional base to fall back on like College Basketball in the states so when people got tired of the hype they tended to move on.