The difference is the A League has guys like Frank Lowy backing it while the NBL has had Eddie Groves. If the NBL can find a sugar daddy it could back where it was as a prominent but loss making enterprise. Failing that i think we need to accept that with a reduced budget (but realistic chance of longer term survival) the NBL will remain a second tier league in terms of Australian exposure but not talent and competitiveness.

But olaf my premise is that even with frank Lowy backing it the a-league is in serious, if not catastrophic decline. look at the crowd numbers for this season..... melbourne, who have a league record crowd from three years ago of 54000, had 6,000 people this year at a game - and last year had nothing under 19,000.

if those crowd figures continue to freefall, then the a-league's 'prominence" will slide into oblivion, as has the old NBL's.

What they do have over the NBL is general positive mindshare of the public. Perception is reality, etc.

I don't think hoping for a financial saviour is that realistic for the long-term.

Scale things back, stabilise and then gradually grow it again. Might not make for a blockbuster TV deal right away, but teams are looking decent, there will still be games for fans, etc.

Basketball is in the 2.5 tier (first tier call the shots, second tier might be something like Netball who are doing well?) and fans might need to try to find the positives in that rather than expecting more just because we've had it before.

The A-League will always have something the NBL don't have - a strong presence on the world stage - namely the Socceroos.

My guess is the A-League will pick up next year and every 4th year whenever the Socceroos make the World Cup. With the Socceroos in the World Cup the mum and dad fairweather supporters will come out to the A-League in force.

SVD, that is provided the socceroos succeed. What if they do not make the next world cup?

SVD makes a good point that next year is the World Cup and with it comes exposure and greater interest. The A-Leage grew on the back of the last world cup. I can see it back on the rise again next year.

Pity that the Boomers involvement in the FIBA World Championships is both; a) not going to be broadcast here in Oz on FTA TV, and b) the FIBA World Champs is not on the same scale as the FIFA World Cup.

yeah i agree isaac,b'ball in australia will never be a top tier sport,neither will soccer,neither will netball or hockey etc

what basketball has is,already large volumes of players and is seen as a really good healthy sport for kids.
(all in all,a great base for a 2.5 tier sport in aust)

it will never be an australian sport..(same as soccer)

we have smallish stadiums,smallish salary cap but in saying that it looks like this nbl season is going to be of a high/good standard.

there are some major sport codes out there hurting from the high costs of wages,venue hire etc

if done right,basketball is sitting in the box seat to become a very very good/profitable 2.5 tier sport in australia.

skull.... good job. with the exception perhaps of WC Eagles and Crows, no professional sports team in australia makes money out of their own activities. All the rest need the support of league managed tv rights to be profitable.

Not sure about the World Cup exposure increasing crowds. That sort of exposure usually increases participation (players) but not necessarily crowds. The latter depends on whether that strong world exposure is based on players that crowds will get to see running around the park in the National Leagues. That's not always the case with soccer.

As a parallel, think about the national competition in a sport where Australia has a huge world presence and has been on top for most of the last 2 decades - cricket. That doesn't translate into large crowds for the domestic competition. On the basis of the success or otherwise of the national cricket competition, I wouldn't rank cricket as a top tier sport in Australia.

However, cricket at teh professional sport level is highly successful, based on a supra national marketing model. ACB uses the international competition to generate public interest, interest in participation and huge revenue streams. They use those revenue streams to prop up the national competition as a (loss making) feeder for talent into the international game.

As a result, the best Australian players rarely play in the national competition. A bit like soccer, to some extent.

World Cup definitely played a HUGE role in A-League's early spectator numbers. As the glow from that has dimmed the numbers have dropped spectacularly despite a continued excellent run from mainstream media.

I think it is a good thing that the NBL did not copy the A-League model.

I agree with Paul. I reckon SWC did play a big part in the initial popularity of the a-league.

I don't think it can have repeat impact.

HO. I like your line of critical thinking but just to pull you up on a couple of points:

* Australia has already made the World Cup (one of the first teams to qualify).
* I like to see the figure for the Melbourne crowd of 6,000. Melbourne defeated the Fury in Townsville which may be where you are getting your 6,000 figure from.

Yout critical thinking of how sustainable the current level of the A league is long term once Lowery leaves may hold value but it might be worthwhile reviewing those crowd figures again.

As I speak I am off to a A-league fixture which I am sure will get more than 10,000. If the NBL had "small" crowds of 6,000 I am sure they we would be over the moon. The problem with the A league is not the crowd sizes but the possible long term financial model and the ability to keep a decent talent level as the competition expands (which they have seemed to achieve this year with Palmer buying up big).

DC

all good....i meant the next world cup, not this one.

my bad for the melbourne crowd thing, just checked the list again - its in the linky in my first post and it was the game in townsville, but melbourne was named first so i assumed home game...

importanbtly, my point is not about the size of A-league crowds, its about the decline:

2007/8: Average Crowd 15344
2008/9: Average Crowd 13191

and NQ and GC were meant to energise that yet....

as of tonight, of the last 12 games, only four have managed a crowd over 10,000 - and six of the others are under 8000. At that rate, without melbourne propping up their average as they have in previous years, the a-league will average closer to 10,000 per game representing a 33% decline over 3 seasons.

*facepalm*

soccer. it is called soccer.

XztatiK, nah its football.

HO, it's like comparing apples with oranges.

A further side point - the A-League started off this year during the AFL and NRL finals. Wait till they are over.

Libertine, until now I have not been comparing anything. I am noting what has happened with the relaunched a-league, and asking what the lessons are for both it and for the yet to be relaunched NBL.

You can't deny what has happened with a-league crowds over the last two seasons. You can't deny that the a-league clubs are losing money hand over first and now, players who are not marquee, ie, those constrained by the cap, are finding financially more rewarding employment overseas. This is not just limited to Allsop.

Your finals point is well made, and it might provide for better crowds later, but by then 6-8 weeks of their season is gone, and where the clubs need money, at the front end of the competitive year, has been affected by woeful crowds.

Libertine, spoke to a soccer-fan and they raised the same point - early figures will be impacted by AFL and NRL.

And they raised the same point Peter's made about the domestic cricket competition.

And in Melbourne for example, there are still 4 Victorian-based teams in the AFL finals, plus Melbourne Storm who are yet again making another run at a grand final appearance and another possible home final. Adelaide also had the Crows, and Brisbane the Lions up until this week. Not to forget the NRL teams based on QLD and NSW still in contention.

HO you've had 8 out of 21 (now 22) of this topic and here in the southern states it is called Soccer not Football and that's because of Footy (or AFL)