matty jam
Years ago

Rules Question: Arm Bar

I am writing in regards to a rule clarification in two parts- the arm bar

1) When a player has possession of the ball and is dribbling- what is and isn't permitted to be a legal arm bar? also, is a fend-off okay?

2)In defense, when defending a player- what can the defender do with his arm on the offensive players back?

I have tried to find somewhere in the FIBA rules that states this, but have had no luck, so if you get a chance, please tell me where on the fiba rules it is! May thanks and much appreciated!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Here are some excerpts from the rule book straight off the FIBA website

33.1 The hands and arms may be extended in front of the torso no further than the position of the feet, with the arms bent at the elbows so that the forearms and hands are raised. The distance between his feet will vary according to his height.

33.4 Once the defensive player has established an initial legal guarding position, he may move to guard his opponent, but he may not extend his arms, shoulders, hips or legs and by doing so cause contact to prevent the dribbler from passing by him.

** Main points - may not extend arms, causing contact to prevent dribbler passing by him

33.10 Contacting an opponent with the hand(s) and/or arm(s)

The touching of an opponent with a hand(s) is, in itself, not necessarily a foul.

The officials shall decide whether the player who caused the contact has gained an unfair advantage.

If contact caused by a player in any way restricts the freedom of movement of an opponent, such contact is a foul.

Illegal use of the hand(s) or extended arm(s) occurs when the defensive player is in a guarding position and his hand(s) or arm(s) is placed upon and remains in contact with an opponent with or without the ball, to impede his progress.

** Main point - remain in contact

Also 33.10 It is a foul by an offensive player with the ball to:

Point 3 - Use an extended forearm or hand, while dribbling, to prevent an opponent from gaining control of the ball.

** Extended forearm

This is similar in post play where 1 forearm on the offensive player is accepted as long as it is not displacing the offensive player and this arm must be removed when the offensive player turns and faces the basket..

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Isaac  
Years ago

Is there a rule about the angle at which your arm can be held? (The angle being that between your upper arm and the vertical.) Swear I've heard that from somewhere.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

then, what is the offensive player with the dribble alloweD to do?

i got this part-
NOT ALLOWED TO:
Hook' or wrap an arm or an elbow around a defensive player in order to obtain
an unfair advantage.
• 'Push off' to prevent the defensive player from playing or attempting to play the
ball, or to create more space between himself and the defensive player.
• Use an extended forearm or hand, while dribbling, to prevent an opponent from
gaining control of the ball.

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ITA  
Years ago

Isaac, I've heard this too as 45 degrees... can a ref confirm or deny?

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maude  
Years ago

Basically he/she's allowed to hold the arm bar there to protect the dribble, as long as it's not pushing the defence away or 'fending off'. 45 degrees is a general rule - high enough to protect the dribble and still low enough that it can't be used to hold the defence away. It must be HELD - as soon as the forearm is extended at all it is a foul.

In regards to the defence, it depends what situation you mean. No hands are technically allowed on the dribbler but unless the offence is disadvantaged then it probably won't be called. Just make sure you listen to the ref, he/she will most likely yell at you to get your hands out before they call a foul. 2 hands on should be considered an automatic foul.

For a post player 1 arm bar is allowed in the back but as soon as the offence turns and faces this must be removed. Again the 45 degrees is a general rule here, and again 2 arms is an automatic foul. Just listen to the ref though, most times they will tell you a few times before they call it

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Anonymous  
Years ago

interesting points raised. Is a player who is in triple threat position (prior to starting the dribble phase) allowed to fend a close checking defender?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

interesting points raised. Is a player who is in triple threat position (prior to starting the dribble phase) allowed to fend a close checking defender?

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maude  
Years ago

If by fending them off you mean pushing them away then no. If you established your arm bar without pushing them (or hitting them in the gut etc) then this would be ok (general rule 45 degrees with no extending of it).

The offender has priority unless the defence LEGALLY gets in their way (or the offence goes out of their normal motion - ie extending their forearm or dropping a shoulder to deliberately make contact).

If the offender uses the arm bar to protect the ball without going out of their normal motion, and without making (significant) contact with a legal defender then that's ok

Hope that makes sense :)

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M0PPA  
Years ago

So if you can only hold an arm bar at 45 degrees in order to post up offensively. How are you supposed to establish and hold post postition when the defender is able to lean all over the post player with two hands in the back?

The rule should be 90 degrees for the arm bar in the post. It's ridiculous that all the advantage goes to the defender in that situation.

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Isaac  
Years ago

I think the angle is for the defensive player, not the guy with the ball. And I don't think they can have two hands in their back. Can a ref provide a bit more info?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Issac ur right. The defensive player can have ONE are on the back at 45 degrees, however as said above, when the offensive player turns and faces the basket, the arm must be removed..

Like maude said earlier, if you listen to the ref they will probably tell ur to get ur hands off or something like that. This is probably only the case if you get a more experienced ref and more likely only in div 1 or 2

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PL123  
Years ago

Not to move away from the threat title (but so closely related) I am a little confused as to when a defensive foul cannot be called from the offensive player entering the defensive players cylinder.
What I read in the rules pertaining to 'established legal guarding position' leaves me with this question,
Defender in the key in a legal position, arms raised above head with slight bent elbows, ball carrier drives to the basket from infront and attempts to come around defender but both players arms contact when the shot is made. Is this a defensive foul?
Basically after trying to get a better grasp on the rules due to fill-in umpiring, I am noticing more that these situatuions are resulting in a foul.
Thoughts?

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Shivam  
Years ago

Wait so I have a question about arm bar if I am dribbling and I have my arm extended out towards a defender to create space is that illegal. Also if i use that same arm to go in side by pushing my defender is that illegal.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Your arm bar has to stay in your cylinder. Ian stacker likens it to you being inside a coke can and that's the space you own, your arm bar remains legal whilst it remains inside your coke can

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Axel1  
Years ago

Hi Guys, I know I'm a bit late on this but I'm a ref and am happy to explain the armbar rule. In regards to post play, a single armbar is legal but if the opponent turns in any direction the hand must be removed. This goes for a player with or without the ball so long as the player isn't holding or pushing off the player. If 2 hands are used, it's an automatic foul. For a player dribbling the ball, they can not extend their free arm to prevent the defence of a legal opportunity to steal the ball. By FIBA, if any contact is made an offensive foul must be called but of course in junior and lower ranked leagues, refs will try and prevent this from happening by using their voices. The 45 degree principle, is not in the current rulebook (2017) but may have been in the past. For dribblers, the best thing to do is not extending that free arm. So for junior coaches, it's essential to remove that habit before kids get too use to it.

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