cheezeburger
Years ago

Whats with Phil?

so the sixers are currently coachless and basically are playerless for next season.today phil rejected the sixers offer.is it the money or the need for a longer deal?.or does phil wish to move on his coaching career elsewhere?if so what type of coach would be target?

Topic #2186 | Report this topic


Kelly  
Years ago

What was the offer? Maybe it was just so completely dismal that you would have rejected it, too.

Reply #24722 | Report this post


joshuapending  
Years ago

Hopefully he is just pushing for more years and this is a way of trying to get that. Hopefully it does not all fall apart!

Reply #24724 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who is a real alternative to Phil ?

Reply #24725 | Report this post


genna  
Years ago

According to a short story on the news tonight, they have offered him a two yr deal, but it has the added bonus of an $80,000 pay-cut. :| It didn't mention anything about him rejecting it though. Apparently he is meeting with the club tomorrow to discuss it.

Reply #24726 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

We all love Phil. However at the conditions they are offering him maybe better for all if he said no.
How long can he just work for the love of the game ? Who is the next coach ? even if Phil takes the job the sixers better have somebody ready for the future.

Reply #24727 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

who said we all love phil?

Reply #24735 | Report this post


deak  
Years ago

But even after an 80,000 pay cut, he's still the highest paid coach in the league.

Working for the love of the game, maybe.

Reply #24736 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So how much are the other coaches paid ? Phil paid more than Brian ??

Reply #24738 | Report this post


deak  
Years ago

a lot more

Reply #24739 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ok, thanks Deak . This changes the situation. Still who is alternative if no agreement is reached ?

Reply #24741 | Report this post


joshuapending  
Years ago

i'm sure it will work out, they are just using this as a way to bargin. Phil will probably get an extra year and that will be a compromise. Either way it needs to be worked out quick or the player will start leaving.

Reply #24743 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Good. Seems silly that the bargin has to take place in public. A more united public front would send a sign of confidence in the future to all. Time to get the key players signed up and lets hope they do not have to go through the same silly stuff.

Reply #24745 | Report this post


C'mon Phil  
Years ago

Personally, I feel so sorry for Phil. He will go from the highest paid coach in the NBL to the ....... highest paid coach in the league!
Don't get me wrong, I want Phil to stay but the propaganda he is putting out at the moment is just that!

Reply #24749 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Bargaining, ambit claims ..... it's the way of the business world folks. It will be sorted out ..... unless KB is positioning himself to take over as coach of the Sixers. Now THAT would be interesting! ;-)

Reply #24754 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If Phil doesn't sign, Please Sixers, sign Steve Breheny, would be interesting to see what he would do, if he was offered the head posistion!

Reply #24760 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

No one's really put forward an alternative yet.

As for Phil's approach to this, I know that I would want to avoid taking a massive pay cut if I could avoid it.

I think the marketing department at the club needs to take a pay cut first!

As for the public bargaining, I guess it puts a bit more pressure on the club and makes the demands more effective. Obviously has the potential to backfire though. Can the club risk hiring an alternative and then see if players are willing to return?

Reply #24763 | Report this post


Vapoorize  
Years ago

Surely Sapwell and Ninnis would be possible replacements.
Favourite sons of the team, not a bad fit me thinks.

Reply #24768 | Report this post


skyhook  
Years ago

VAPOORIZE ... (DISAPPOINTING MOVIE "ENVY" )
I LOVE SAP'S BUT DO YOU THINK HE IS READY TO STEP INTO A TOP JOB IN THE NBL ? IN FRONT OF BREHENY ? ... NOT SURE ITS SUCH A GOOD IDEA .. NINNIS MAYBE AN ASSISTANT ROLE BUT I CANT SEE HIM TOP DOG YET !

(No typing in caps please.)

Reply #24776 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

when you are vastly overpaid compared to other coaches and the club itself has financial troubles surely surely surely you could afford to take a pay cut for the betterment of basketball.

OR is phil's heart in his wallet?

and before all scream the financial plight isn't his fault - perhaps the coaching wage structure is a burden and i'm not overly convinced that phil and steve weren't wrong and crippled the club with their rogers cattalini pay deals a few years back.

fair is fair he's got a job still at a good salary, he's got two years, he's got his home town, there would be a lot of afl/nbl/nrl coaches who would be happy with that.

Reply #24786 | Report this post


Farviewer  
Years ago

Five years is WAY too long! Look at the corporate world and fat cat public servants who get paid out heaps on such contracts when the Directors & Shareholders vent their anger at poor performances and want to get rid of people before the term is up. Wasted money. Positive Govt here now has 2/3 year max contracts.

Two + 1 year elective option for either party to take up is more than fair. WHAT are the Coaches Key Performance measuring criteria for assessment, and not just "we make finals" .... how many individual training sessions does he do with EVERY player, what individual player plans are formulated & documented, how much team video analysis, trips overseas or interstate to scout, value added things consistently done for the club in the community and media etc etc etc??

Additionally, should not players get paid more than a coach, or at least the starting 5?? Phil been WELL overpaid these last few years, well above the players, the market and BASA's own resources would sensibly allow?? BASA's own future ability to pay is also a concern.. crowds down, money down, take a pay cut or leave is also a familiar story in the REAL world too if u want to keep a job in a financially troubled organisation, or u leave and pack up and go elsewhere where maybe lifestyle and costs are more than here!

Lastly, whoever had the Dunce cap on that sees the Coach's contract and 99% of the players come due at same time please stand up.

Want the job, take it! Don't hold the fans, players and the community to ransom, otherwise start the rebuild phase immediatley across all areas and hang on for the ride!

Reply #24789 | Report this post


Kent Brockman  
Years ago

It is bad taste for the sixers to offer him substantially less money and not trade that with extra years as he sought.

If this continues players will start looking elsewhere for deals and be gone by the time the dust has settled.

Possible replacements....Dave Ingham, Geordie Mc Leod

Reply #24790 | Report this post


Panther  
Years ago

I had heard him and Breheny were happy to take a slight pay cut with more security in exchange, example a four year deal. So far Phil has done a pretty good job with the Club and I don't see anyone else out there that will be any better than Phil and Steve so why not give them a 4 year deal???

Reply #24801 | Report this post


SKYHOOK  
Years ago

little bit late with this question , i know, but what would Phil's salary be as compared to the rest of the NBL coaches around ? 120%, 150 % .. no need for exact $ figure if you dont want to ..

Reply #24834 | Report this post


incognito  
Years ago

Skyhook everyone has to start somewhere. How could Ninnis not be ready? He has won ABL premierships as a coach, I think he played for the boomers, played NBL for about 10 years been assistant coach of the 6ers in nbl premiership sides and is the current head coach of the accademy. Everyone has their opinion on these kinds of people and I have heard plenty of good and bad feedback but surely if you just look at the facts and he is qualified to coach an NBL side.

Reply #24838 | Report this post


joshuapending  
Years ago

that is true but phil would have to be the best option for sure. He has a good relationship with the players, and he has delivered results.

Reply #24850 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

I would love to know how people can claim "phil is the highest paid coach in the league".

Have these people seen Phil's payslip, or bank account balance?? Perhaps they have seen the actual accounting page that details his wage?

Because if not any of those 3, I would suggest you are talking way out of school.

So let's see, Phil wants job security. Smart move, so do all of us.

So Phil has been asked to take a pay cut. He has agreed, but said, well if you want me to sacrifice money, how about giving me some more job security in return.

I think thats a fair deal.

Considering he still has one of the best success records of all active NBL coaches (100% rate of reaching playoffs), I cant see why his request couldnt , or wouldnt be met.

Reply #24854 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Farviewer, I don't think its Phil who is holding the players to ransom. My understanding is that the players themelves want him back and won't sign until Phil has been signed back. An indication of this is a quote from Dusty's journal -

"I hope that Phil and SJ are back because I love playing for these two as they give you a stress free environment and understand a players needs and wants."

Sounds to me that Phil is not holding anyone to ransom. I don't even know why conditions of contracts like this are even made available to the public. Its really nobody's business. All I can say is I hope they reach a decision that is favourable to Phil because it will be a very sad day for the Sixers if he doesn't return.

Reply #24855 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

I agree it would be a sad day for the club if Phil didnt return.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that if Phil did not return for any reason apart from his own choice (retirement, move on to other challenges etc), it would be the death of the club.

The fan backlash, and the resultant financial repercussions would be to great to bear.

Reply #24863 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

dream on yogee dream on fans are fickle

one person does not make a team

Reply #24866 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

Well anonymous, I guess thats why you wont put a name to your posts.

What I stated about the club not surviving is a view even shared by some people who would have a lot more to lose, than us, the fans.

One person may not make a team, and is a view I share. However, should Smyth not be re-signed due to perceived lack of action (be it lack of decent offer etc), a lot of long suffering fans, who only JUST decided to renew tickets last season may decide that is the final straw and leave.

I would suggest, as a conservative figure, that if Smyth was not re-signed, they would lose a possible 800 season ticket holders. That is approximately 40% (working on the 2000 season tickets [again approx] that were "reportedly" sold for this last season).

Working on an adult price of $334 (which is what I paid for my wife't ticket when you facotr in admin fees), that equates to $267,200 gone from the budget.

Then factor in drop in revenue to catering, loss of exposure to sponsors, therefore devaluing the "product" (the team in this case), and sponsors also start to drop out.

Considering Phil part owns Sammys on the Marina, do you think they would continue their sponsorship if he wasn't re-signed?

You say fans are fickle. Thats exactly right. Why would the "fickle" fans come to see a team that is hardly marketed (if they even knew the team was playing) if it's a team playing with some unknown coach...not to mention how many players would want to still play at Adelaide if Phil wasnt coach (remember there was a player poll done at the start of this season, in which Phil was named as the coach most players would like to play under).

I stand by my original statement. If Phil was not re-signed by some force or decision by the club, the public backlash would almost seal the fate of the club.

I hate the fact, but it's a very close reality.

Reply #24871 | Report this post


flatshot  
Years ago

It is realistic to assume that Phil and Steve are currently highly paid because of their previous success rate at the timing of them signing their current long term contracts. You dont need to see the accounts to figure that out. But now the players have had to cop a high percentage pay cut courtesy of the salary cap and the 36ers results are less impressive as Smyth and Brehny locked in Rogers and Catt to long term deals that were financially constricting and the team results in the last 2 seasons have been dissapointing. (Don't bother to post about the excuses for the last 2 years.)
New negotiations have to reflect that. Yes the coaching team are entitled to try and trade security for reduced money. But considering their current record and we certainly judge players by their most recent performances and coaches by the same, surely the club is entitled to be responsible in its offers. It is also unhealthy that any team member- player or coaches are seen as so untouchable. Decisions need to be objective and consider market value-NO-ONE is untouchable IMO in professional sport.

Reply #24872 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

I agree flatshot. No-one is untouchable.

I also agree that a reduced pay is suitable given the change is circumstances across the elague since the last round of contracts were done.

Smyth and Breheny didnt lock Rogers and Catt in, management of the time did.

When you have a coach who a majority of players would like to play for, why wouldnt you want to do what it takes to keep them?

Reply #24876 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Both sides of this coin are fair and hopefully a compromise can be reached. I know that, to some, Yogee's forecast should Smyth leave might be a little dramatic or gloomy, but the simple fact is that it would not help the public image of the club at all, and it would not help them sell any more tickets.

Can you imagine if, after a season with low crowds, poor catering, and little evidence of marketing, the club then put a cheaper team on the court, and accompanied that with a lesser-known coach? If ticket prices didn't drop, I don't think the crowds would exactly rise.

At some point, the club could try something other than a reduced salary. i.e., instead of "We still want that figure $10-20,000 lower" say "Assuming this figure is fair, we'd like to propose additional time of yours for marketing purposes" and get the coaches to make appearances, etc as Farviewer suggested. And enforce it.

Reply #24878 | Report this post


Farviewer  
Years ago

(Mod: This post is not available.)

Reply #24883 | Report this post


skyhook  
Years ago

incognito (#24838)... how would Ninnis leap-frog Breheny?
He might be 'good'enough, as you say ... but would he want to coach elsewhere? Who would give him a shot ?... i would be shocked if he got the 6 er's job.

p.s Ninnis was one of my favourite players for a long time !!

Reply #24884 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I have always assumed that Smyth and Breheny are a coaching package who'd be likely to stick together in a situation like this.

Reply #24886 | Report this post


Pioneer  
Years ago

It is a known fact that Smyth shares his salary package with Breheny. The two salaries are added together and then divided by two. This fact was stated by Smyth in many interviews since he started coaching.

Reply #24894 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

yogee, you should be a writer for 'Days of Our Lives'. Their script is more believable than your predictions. How the hell would you know if 800 season ticket holders would not renew their commitment if Phil was not re-instated as coach? This can't even be described as an educated guess.

Hell, some people might jump on board if someone like Scott Ninnis got the job.

To say Phil not re-signing would be the 'death of the club'is being dramatic for the point of being dramatic. It doesn't give enough credit to the Club, the players, the fans and beasketball in theis State generally. In saying that, I recognise Basketball isn't in its most prosperous period.

Reply #24899 | Report this post


incognito  
Years ago

Skyhook. I dont see Breheny doing the job if Smythe and the 6ers couldnt come to terms.

Reply #24903 | Report this post


mickeymouse  
Years ago

Gees Yogee what are you smokin?
if a player was faced with playing in adelaide under say Gordie McLeod or not playing at all are they likely to say sorry I want Phil to coach so I'm not going to play I am going to sacrifice my career cause the coach I like hasn't been reappointed. I'll join the unemployment line or go dig trenches cause cause cause.

Yes the players have stated they would like to play for Phil but with some guys like Oscar, Darren, Jacob they haven't played elsewhere or for someone else at that level so what is there comparison. With Dusty etc this is their paid employment at the moment are they going to say they didn't like playing here when their contracts are up for renewal!

would people leave if Smyth didn't coach HELLO people aren't turning up now and his is coaching and if you think its just a question of $ of tickets read the advertiser this morning Kings dropped their ticket prices and crowds still dropped. Maybe it is the standard of basketball being offered at the moment!

Perhaps a different style of coach would be a good thing.

And are you 100% that Rogers and Cat weren't signed and locked in by Smyth & Co after all management would have been going with what the coach wanted.

Seems like you want to paint Phil as the messiah and that he certainly ain't take off your rose coloured glasses - and fyi lots don't post with nicknames or with their name for many varying reasons.

just because you post with one doesn't lend your posts credibility in fact i tend to read your reactions as lose cannon material.

perhaps you do it as a devil advocate thing - get the troops moving -

Reply #24919 | Report this post


Phil is a little bit silly. He is holding out for what a 3 + 2 yr deal and good luck to him. The 6ers are obviously smart enough to know that in the current climate of the NBL he will not get this elsewhere.

Phil is just going to force himself out of a job or if he gets it lose the respect of alot of people for making his negotiations and demands so public.

Reply #24920 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

I think Phil is within reason asking for security in return for a pay cut.

If his job is performance-based assessed, he has done pretty damn well over the past few years.

This season can only be described as a success, given pre-season predictions. One freak game by Brisbane costs us a semi-final berth.

Reply #24927 | Report this post


Jay  
Years ago

Death of the club. Public backlash. Yogee you got to be kidding.
Lindsay Gaze quoting John Wooden

"The crowd out there will soon forget
The heroes of the past
They'll shout and cheer until you fall
And that's how long it lasts."

Ten seconds after Smythe finishes, the next coach comes and goes, then the next coach comes and goes, you will not even remember their names. No one will care.

Reply #24949 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

mickeymouse. The survey I mentioned was a pre-season survey, in which EVERY NBL registered player was surveyed. Unfortunately I cant locate my copy of it, but it revealed that something like 70%+ of players would like to play under Smyth.

My point is, if you have a coach who is likely to possibly draw big name players, to play for less money, why wouldnt you do everything in your power to keep that coach.

Darnell Mee likely to finish his career in Adelaide. Do you REALLY think he would even be considering it, if Phil wasn't coaching. Do you think he would come and play under Geordie?

Do you think Farley would stick around if Geordie was coach? Or Dusty?

Of course the public backlash will happen. I think my 800 people was aconservative figure, I think it would be more likely 1000 current season ticket holders would give it away if the club didnt re-sign Smyth. But, they would make up, I am saying, probably 200 regardless of what happens.

Sure, if they signed someone like Phil Jackson (not that they would), the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages.

I would like someone to name a "big name" coach who would be available to coach, at reduced rates?

I appreciate people have differing views, I just think those who are criticising Phil for accepting a pay cut but wanting a longer deal are being extremely harsh.

Reply #24983 | Report this post


EC  
Years ago

Jay and all you others who think that Phil can easily be replaced, think about the style of basketball he brings out in his players. The style that we have enjoyed watching for as long as Phil has been coach. Why don't we bring in Brendan Joyce and he can teach our players his Wollongong Hawks style of basketball. That is ugly and I can't imagine too many people paying around $25 a ticket to see that. So yes, if Phil does go, so will many fans. Even the players would be looking for other opportunities if they didn't like the new coach. He alone does not make a team, but you would have players looking elsewhere instead of being keen to stay here.

Reply #25019 | Report this post


Stephon  
Years ago

(Mod: This post is not available.)

Reply #25030 | Report this post


flatshot  
Years ago

i don't think that the last 2 seasons results are totally
acceptable and i have heard all the excuses. The buck stops with the coach. In fact too many bucks have stopped with the coach. The same coach who cut sapper and who has made hard decisions would accept that sometimes tough decisions have to be made. And frankly I wouldn't mind a basketball team that plays some more aggressive D. (some more D in the Brisbane game would have been handy) Note that A) everyone wants Darnell back who seems to be doing OK in the Hawks environment and B) the Hawks are in the grand final we are not. So I'm OK if Phil stays but if the deal is too unreasonable well there is only 1 choice.

Reply #25031 | Report this post


Stephon  
Years ago

In what way were our results the last two seasons not totally acceptable?

Disappointing maybe but definitely not unacceptable.

Maybe you rate our talent and depth over the past two years more than me but I think we actually over achieved to a large degree both years.

2004- CT, no size, Maher's personal tragedy, etc. All pretty good excuses for not making the finals and not only did we make it but we were a basket away from beating the Tigers in Melbourne. Not a bad effort in my opinion.

2005- We lose Cat, our MVP and arguably our most expensive player. We replace him essentially with a couple of minimum contract guys in Cooper and Rees as opposed to the normal approach of replacing a star with a star. We come 3rd but more importantly a game outside guaranteed semi final with home court advantage.

It takes 16 or 17x 3 pointers from Brisbane to knock us out in a disappointing game that couldn't have come at a worse time.

Again, very disappointing but more than acceptable from a coaching perspective.

If we had the Tigers star studded line-up then I'd agree with you that the results were unacceptable.

Smyth was criticised earlier in his career for only being able to coach veteran players.

This year our third place finish was largely dedicated to the performance of the younger guys in Dusty, Holmes, Forman, Cooper, Ng and Hill who has showed enough to indicate he is the most exciting prospect the 36ers have had in a long time.

I'm not saying the success of all the above players is the result of Smyth and Breheney's coaching but they definitely deserve credit.

We have the nucleus of a good young team that hopefully will stay together for a long time. We also have some exciting future prospects that we could add to the line-up.

I just hope the nucleus isn't broken up and that Smyth and Breheney are re-signed as soon as possible.

Instead of going backwards we should have moved forward and re-stated say Ninnis or perhaps Sapwell or Rees as the second assistant coach.

Reply #25033 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

yawn

Reply #25034 | Report this post


Statman  
Years ago

Some interesting points raised by all that we could debate all year....but the one I cant let slip past without comment is that 800 season ticketholders would pass up their tickets if Smyth was let go. Surely you must be kidding to say that pretty much half of the loyal fans would throw it all in because we got a new coach!!! While i agree that Smyth coaches an exciting style of play I dont go to a game to see him I go to watch a game of basketball.

Reply #25165 | Report this post


EC  
Years ago

Statman, you go and watch a game of basketball that Smyth has designed to make it compelling viewing.

Reply #25166 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

Statman, I based my figures on a starw poll of friends and acquaintances who almost agve it away at the start of this season.

They are fed up with in eptitiude of some of the 36ers management team, and if the management team made the decision to either let Phil walk away, or made him walk, they would give in their tickets. That was about a 40% figure that made that comment.

Reply #25167 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Whether they lose 200, 400, or 800 or none at all, I think the point is: it wouldn't be any easier for them to sell season tickets. Obviously there was a struggle to do so this season and if people think the crowds will be low, catering unchanged, team more or less the same (at best) and the familiar coach gone, unless they substantially improve their marketing, I don't see the count rising.

Reply #25171 | Report this post


The Journo  
Years ago

Id have Dave Ingham head coach and Frank Arsego assistant coach.

Id re-sign Rychart, Forman, Holmes, Cooper, Nash, Ng, Hill, Maher

Id sign-up Mee, Pepper.

Reply #25192 | Report this post


Dr Dunkenstein  
Years ago

im sure any basketball follower would like to have such a line up, yet the only team that seems to avoid salary cap restrictions is an East coast team, not the sixers.

Reply #25201 | Report this post




 

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