Well North (i assume div 3) - South game @ Hillcrest on Friday night was a joke...one team struggled to get it over the half for the majority.

often it is difficult for clubs to nominate teams that they think will be competitive, simply because of lack of knowledge of the competition. Maybe BASA could look at adopting an approach similar to Netball where after the first three weeks, the association has the authority to re-classify (move division) the teams. Although this will open a whole new can of worms, but it may be what is needed to ensure most grades are competitive through-out the season.

Can anyone say promotion/relegation? Chances are that the teams that are getting kicked each week will come from the same clubs who vote against it. And they will then complain if their div 2 team ends up in div 3.

Is this the fault of the clubs or BASA? And don't say the clubs run BASA because that doesn't happen.

From what I understand it is the BASA junior committee that made this decision because there were not enough teams in div 3.

Maybe promotion / relegation would solve this, but it isn't the only solution...

Sorry, perhaps I should have said the executive of the junior committee. That is the group that does grading and resolves issues.

I have heard that some clubs bring items to the table in between meetings so that only the executive makes the decision and not all the clubs...

Surely this is the true promotion/relegation as, after a full round of games, the grade is split according to the premiership table into Div2A and Div2B. With only 4 nominations for Div 3, the grade was not viable. Would you have like to be the one to tell 4 of the nominees for Div 2 that they had to play Div 3 to make up the numbers. This process has been used several times before quite successfully.

This is not even close exec, the idea behind pro/rel is that it stops teams from getting smashed by 50+ points. Because all that does is makes kids stop playing.

Why not Promotion/relegation anonymous? Can you not see that it would easily have stopped the next 15 weeks of players being beaten by massive scores. If at the begining of the year the grade was cut into 6 teams comps, according to their results at te end of the season 2 years ago, then you would not need to have 50+ points margins in games as it would already be clear as to the order in which teams should be ranked and the best 8 teams could play div 2 and the next 8 teams could play in div 3. Right now what is going to happen is that at the end of the 15 rounds, some clubs "probably yours" are going complain that they do not have a team in div 2 even though they are sitting below 8th, while another club has 2 teams in div 2. Then if each club does this we are back where we started with only 4 maybe 5 or 6 teams in div 3.

So keep on putting band-aids on the competition until all these kids leave the sport, due to their getting a hiding every other week and then you will not need to worry about this happening again, because there wont be enough kids to play in the div 3 comp anyway.

What would I have done?

1. I would have reviewed the results from the previous season.
2. Determined how many teams are competitive at div 2 level.
3. Use this information to determine a split between div 2 and div 3 (either 8 and 8 or 10 and 6).
4. Informed the clubs of what is intended and what teams will go in which grade. Give the clubs right of reply.
5. Assess the replies.
6. Program 'contentious' graded teams to play each other.
7. Reprogram if necessary with 3 rounds of seven games.

From what I heard the U/21 women last year was a joke. Bottom level div 1 teams were beaten by top level div 2 teams. When the comp was split the bottom div 1 teams still remained in div 1 to be beaten by the top teams by 50 points!

Pegs, you have some good ideas but, unfortunately, with more than half of the clubs not getting their nominations in to BASA on time, there is no time for your suggested 'right of reply'. There is certainly no time or court space or referees to play the challenge games. I read comlaints all the time about programs not being available. These are all drawn up as soon as the grading is complete and then redrawn when teams are withdrawn. When are they going to be completed if there are several weeks of 'grading'. If all Clubs were honest with themselves and nominated realistically, a lot of the grading problems would not occur in the first place.

exec,

Again, promotion/relegation would fix the situation of nominations. with a six team competition over summer, you would need more than 2 in each grade of six to be withdrawn before needing to re-do the competition draw.And as the competition draw is only done for 5 weeks at a time. You would factor in withdrawls every 5th week. Then for the winter season, if a team withdraws you would only need to bump a team up from the grade below into that spot. Then a program re-draw would not be necessary. Except for the bottom grade in each comp.

Hmmm - as usual, these problems are always more difficult than they appear on the surface.

But, you can either wait for something to happen or make it happen... If I was running the show (be thankfull that I am not) I would simply tell the clubs if you have no nomination - then I will do the nomination for you. See how quickly they come up with nominations after that.

If that didn't work I would visit each secretary until I got an answer. They are volunteers afterall, and maybe all they need is a helping hand.

As for the 'challenge' games. I would suggest use the first weeks in the season as done by netball to grade and then change.

WRT your comment on clubs grading honestly - I couldn't agree more. Do a sense a little bit of frustration here?

Pegs,

The summer season is meant to be the grading season.

I agree the summer season is meant to be the grading season. However sometimes 'challenge' games are required to make the final decision...

If you played a team (X) at the start of the season and lost by 10 points and then near the end of the season beat some of the teams above X such that you had the same record as team X at the end of the season, you would be judged by your game at the start of the season.

To be absolutely sure that I have the correct team in a grade, I would suggest a challenge game.

Other examples include not having your best player due to illness, death in family, injury or school camp during an important game. The same could happen to team X.

That is why we need promotion.relegation. So that each 5 weeks you have up and down grading. That way if a player misses 1 or 2 games it won't matter. Because what happens if some players are unavailable for the challenge games.

To reiterate on this issue, F/Ville div 2's played southern tigers- their div 2 side. The ending score 63-17.
Sturt(team 1) beat Eastern div 2 side 62-21.
South 1 beat North's div 3 side 45-11.
Last year, F/Ville under 21's div 2 side played eastern div 1 side. They lost 110-10 (rough score from memory). After that season and game- a few players were lost. And if games like this are going to happen, more players will be lost.

Why cant BASA and clubs work together instead of shifting blame or half accpeting suggestions and then nto acting on it? This goes for most issues clubs face each and every year. Yet it seems to be the same problems that resurface.
Listen to the players that complain all the way home in the car about losing again, listen to the parents thinking why am i paying money for this to happen - they are the ones that count and bring to the money, the competition and entertainment to clubs and BASA.

Quiet one,

It is the clubs themselves that are holding this back. Not BASA. The clubs are the one's who want guarenteed div 1 and div 2 spots. The clubs are the one's who don't want to have a true grading season. The clubs are the one'e who want the competition to remain as a lowest common denominator competition.

Not all clubs, Sideshow Bob. Only the ones that use guaranteed Div 1 and 2 as a crutch and continue to perform poorly and the lose players anyway.

My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, only 1 club is happy to vote for no guarenteed div 1 and 2 spots. But would rather use a merit based system.

all i can say - if you are unhappy with a low amount of u18 div 3 teams for a full winter comp - give the girls a run in div 4 or 5 women on tues or wed nights - they usually have 10 teams or so and at 16-17 years they should hold their own in the grade