expresso
Years ago

F'ville to be new state champs

after many years of the sabres holding the title - it looks like it will go wayville way this weekend.

why?

sturt will just win state boys - will be close, older boys sealing it

sturt will win reserve boys - again through older age groups

forestville will win state girls - unless some upsets - which could be on the cards they should take out nearly ever state girls age group

forestville will win reserve girls - in a canter

the eagles results in the girls will be enough to take the t martin trophy

all the best to everyone playing this weekend

Topic #22943 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

so they should because they play every game in every division at wayville don't they ?

Reply #276846 | Report this post


BMF  
Years ago

WTF does home ground have to do with it in basketball played in Adelaide?

There isn't too much travel at all...

Build the bridge!!!

Reply #276847 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

then if travel not an ensure why not travel dear eagles - how hard be to have all games neutral venues then this discussion becomes non factor which it is

Reply #276849 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Gee, that's a big call expresso. Hate to ask the hard question, but:

Are Forestville the new Collingwood?

Reply #276853 | Report this post


DaddyO  
Years ago

No - Collingwood have to share their home ground!

Reply #276867 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

Where is the advantage for any team in Basketball SA to be playing at home?

Please give me as many suggestion as possible

Reply #276872 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

If you look at the regular home and away season, I think you'll find that there would be a slight bias in win rate for all teams. However, some of the perceptions are:

* Umpiring: All stadiums have their favourite umpires and they tend to umpire according to their own style. For example, one club's standard defensive style is very much a double team full court press with plenty of active reaching. At their home stadium, the umpires get used to this style and so tend to give tolerance to minor contact. At other stadiums, some umpires penalise any contact. It is easier to call a foul on a player you don't see week in week out.
* Rest Period: With any carnival, there are gaps in the programme. If you live 10 mins from the stadium, you can go home, refresh, rest. No, how about those Mavs players For example, if you live in Mt Barker and have a 10 am game at Port and then a 3 pm at Hillcrest, you are likely to hang around the big smoke, go to a park, run around etc. Therefore, you are not as refreshed as some other teams. Fortunately, Wayville has Sexpo this weekend, so parents can entertain themselves between games, and then later that evening.
* Rise time: If you have a 9 am game at a stadium 10 mins away, then you can sleep until 8 am, dress and get to the stadium at 8:30 am. What about if you are a Centrals player in the Barossa Valley, or a Mavs player from Murray Bridge and playing at Morphett Vale at 9 am. These players have to allow up to 2 hrs for travel time, so in order to get to Morphett Vale at 9 am need to wake about 6 am to dress and then drive to the stadium.
* Road Travel: A 10 min car trip from Unley along 40 km/hr roads is always a lot calmer than a 45 min freeway trip from Stirling along a 100 km/hr freeway dodging semis. The number of near misses I see are incredible.
* Confidence: Playing at a familiar ground always gives a player confidence.

I am sure there are more, but this for discussion starters.

Reply #276877 | Report this post


BMF  
Years ago

But what your doing is making the young metro charges sound like they are precious...

Country champs time and all the athletes have to stick around, shit some go shopping...

toughen up Princess I say!

Reply #276879 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

Jack in regards to the umpires at stadiums

It is the job of head umpires around the state to create consistency between stadium which is why all umpires are trained by a group of umpiring coaches.

Maybe umpires need to be moved around instead of umpiring the same players each week or fortnight. Without the exposure to different types of playing styles how will our referees be able to move to higher levels of refering

And also remember that a defender is allowed to make contact with the player will the ball without getting a foul. Its in the rule book and what makes a foul is if the player who has control of the ball looses control because of the contact from the defender.

Having the ability to go home in between is overated it comes down to what physical do in between your games. If you decided to go running in a park in between games in a major tournament and waste your energy, you are an Idiot. Ive played in tournaments all over this state for many of years as a player, referee and a coach and it comes down to relaxing in between and that doesnt have to be done at home, it can be done anywhere as long as ur not burning energy that you will need later.

Looking at travelling time to stadiums and road trips. I make over 14 trips a weeks going up and down the freeway between mt barker and Adelaide and i prefer that drive then having to stop start every intersection in the city so for many country people like myself that is more enjoyable to us.

Stadiums shouldnt make u feel more confident, its your basketball ability that should make a player more confident.

Reply #276887 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Name one respected head ref at a stadium who schools his charges? Too many Refs are protected species and not accountable for the bias they take into games.

Reply #276893 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

Its not just the job or the Head Referees

people like Nathan Wieland who run the refereeing they should be getting feedback from the head refs

Reply #276894 | Report this post


phobos12  
Years ago

BMF you just proved the point. At country champs all have to stick around, so no advantage to anyone. In state champs the home team is potentially advantaged by being close to home.

I have no opinion either way by the way, just pointing out where your argument is flawed.

Reply #276942 | Report this post


BMF  
Years ago

Potentially!! There's no jet lag involved. It's a matter of
time and what u do in between.

The only advantage comes
in the event of late night game and an early morning game. I think yr all reading too much into it.

Bet the teams don't go bitching when it comes to the classics.

Sounds like ppl are making excuses beofre they lose.

Reply #276944 | Report this post


Lol  
Years ago

I think it's funny you're all talking about the little venue jibe and forgetting the entirely laugable claim in the OP. Will be amusing when Sturt yet again win the state champs. All in the cycle baby!

Reply #276948 | Report this post


phobos12  
Years ago

BMF I think perhaps you are deliberately missing the point.

Not worth arguing about in any case, as it's pretty obvious that the trophy will in fact remain with Sturt.

Reply #276950 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Like I asked above:

Are Forestville the new Collingwood?

Reply #276954 | Report this post


Cat in the Hat  
Years ago

Jack, everyone has ignored you twice now. Maybe you should ask again?

Reply #276958 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

OK, Cat in the Hat, if you insist.....

Are Forestville the new Collingwood?


Now, hopefully I'll get a nibble.

Reply #276961 | Report this post


tnt  
Years ago

Well Jack, they are definitly precious about their playing colours.

Have they got an Eddy Everywhere!!!

And if Collingwood fielded an u16 team decimated by injuries would they still be favoured to win?

" Good old Forestville forever........"

Reply #276970 | Report this post


Modern Girl  
Years ago

Sorry...being in Mt Barker and playing in the domestic comp is dumb anyway from my point of view......but why are they doing it? for the experience......it doesn't suit at state champs time???

yeah..well you no the answer your gona get to that one...

Reply #276990 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

Why is lving in Mt Barker and playing domestic comp dumb?

Is it the 20min drive down the freeway?

Reply #276995 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Both sturt and the eagles have agreed to only compete in future state champs if they can be the only clubs who field teams and have all games at their home stadiums with their officials.I understand bsa have agreed to this proposals stating it was what happens now anyway. We are indebted to both clubs for agreeing to be the sole participants in state champs into the future and our only query is how they are going to decide who gets the home court advantage. Bless them for having the only worthy players on the face of the earth.

Reply #277029 | Report this post


ITK  
Years ago

Well said anon, finially someone sees the light. You also forgot to mention that all the other clubs can continue to bitch and moan and feel the world is against them because they never get off their collective arses to help improve their club. Once you do that and also get that chip off your shoulder you can come and play with the big boys and girls.

Reply #277034 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

Forestville all the way!

Reply #277041 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually what a great idea ITK. Let all us lazy fat clubs who have no-one wanting to help the kids play better who spend all day coming up with different ways of moaning not waste Sturt and Forestville's time and turn up to any State champ games. Let's forfeit all games against you and have our own tournament between ourselves.

I wonder who will have more fun. The kids who are actually playing, the kids of Sturt and Forestville playing amongst themselves or the Sturt and Forestville parents who can sit there and pat each other on the back as to how good they as parents are playing the game.

It is the MINORITY of parents like yourself that give these two clubs a bad name amongst the general basketball fraternity. Enjoy your time as despite however unlikely you think something will change - change will happen. I just hope when it does us poor pathetic lazy people at other clubs are more gracious in victory than you are!!

Reply #277045 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

haha we've been hearing about the inevitable change/cycle for the last 10 years.... yet nothing changes. The top clubs stay top, the others still whinge about them.

Reply #277052 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

actually it does change about 10 years ago it was all a Noarlunga / Norwood dynasty

10 years before that it would have been West / North

things do change, what doesn't change is those who at the bottom who wish to blame those who are at the top, the ones at the top who feel they are being dragged down from those on the bottom.

when it is all obviously the committee, BSA and the referee's all in an unholy alliance that is holding basketball up, back or keeping it netural depending on which bias slant you want to take a look at.

May I say the state champs is all about the kids, lets hope they enjoy it:)

Reply #277053 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually it doesn't. I could be wrong but Sturt have won it 15 or so out of the last 25 years with no longer than a 2 year break off. Again I could be wrong and I'll check my facts this weekend.

Reply #277062 | Report this post


Triton 15  
Years ago

Who would the winners be if all the kids went back to their original clubs? There would be many different results and far less whinging than we are hearing now. Possibly even a stronger and more stable competition for all concerned.
Sure Sturt and Forrestville are the strongest clubs, and they are very good clubs, but lets not forget who has developed many of their players, the other teams.
Food for thought.

Reply #277080 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Have you all forgotten that the Mavs finished second in the boys and second in the girls last year without competing in under 20's and therefore unable to pick up points in that age.

Reply #277086 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So does anyone really care which club wins a state champs given there is no level playing field and the clubs poach indiscriminately. Southern is mixture of other club's development and best illustrates why state champs is chumpville.

Reply #277111 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No wonder kids are leaving basketball - hearing and seeing this telling them they are c__P all the time.

We need kids to stay at clubs after they have been found to do the hard yards and to improve. It is so easy to move to another sport, especially based on participation rates, their friends at school are likely to be playing football or soccer or cricket. Unless you have a very committed kid at the age of say 10 parents will often influence them to move on to another sport with their friends rather than hearing how bad they are or the club is all the time.

I would really like to see player turnover rates, not necessarily to other clubs but to other sports.

I hear it now - well if your club did this and didn't spend all their money on seniors then they would stay - that is not correct in most cases. I see some of these teams and their coaches are very very good but they can't turn kids around overnight. They need time to do that or, as some clubs do, "recruit" the better players to shorten that development cycle.

Reply #277127 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Jack Toft - puleese exploin Sexpo

Reply #277208 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I am going out on a limb....



But.....



Sturt losing the 14 girls to norwood tonight will just about lose Sturt the chance of champion club and hand it to...............



The eagles!!

Reply #277210 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Wayvile Showgrounds are hosting the "Sexpo" exhibition this weekend

Reply #277213 | Report this post


Tiger Woodduck  
Years ago

anon 111

What have you based your facts on.

The comment regarding Southern being a mix of other Clubs development is ridiculous. I coach there and doubt that we would have more than 5% of kids from other clubs playing in Div 1 across the age groups.

I am sure this would be more like 40% at some of the other Clubs.

Reply #277232 | Report this post


';'  
Years ago

I agree with you tiger, that is why your program is cr...How are your Under 18 boys going?

Reply #277236 | Report this post


pallas23  
Years ago

After last night's performance, Southern 18 Boys are GONE. Looks like no Classics for our summer champions lol

Reply #277238 | Report this post


Tosser  
Years ago

What has happened at Southern with 18 boys ? Have not won a game in winter and apparantley lost to south last nite according to above ? Always had a hunch summer was a fluke and Mavs would have won if at full strength. Apparantley they lost to woodville too last night. Have a few injury concerns I believe. Wide open side of draw.

Reply #277240 | Report this post


pallas23  
Years ago

Mavs won easy last night didn't they?

Reply #277241 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Now the Tiger hunt starts!

Whatever happened to picking on Sturt and Forestville? Surely they deserve it?

Reply #277242 | Report this post


pallas23  
Years ago

Fair call Jack, they both lost as well last night. But neither of them got on Hoops and mouthed off about how awesome they were.

Reply #277246 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

woodduck, look at your 18 girls, look at the coach and think of poached eggs as always on the menu.

Reply #277250 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Thanks for the nibble Pallas!

Reply #277251 | Report this post


pallas23  
Years ago

Sure Jack, whatever. At the end of the day Southern got on the wrong side of a lot of people by getting ahead of themselves. Even after summer, those in the know could see that they'd ultimately achieve nothing. Sure enough, now here we are.

Reply #277252 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

One night in and some grades haven't even played. Based on the above comments on U18's and U14's best we stop now and save all the time and expense of sorting out champion club!

BTW - I didn't see any U20/21's games. Did many clubs drop back ABA/Div 2 senior players and if so whom???

Reply #277253 | Report this post


Ariel  
Years ago

Has this just become the biggest jinx yourself thread ever?

U20 women out
U18 men out
U16 women struggling

meanwhile, i may be wrong, nut sturt has finished top in every grade in their pool.

Reply #277392 | Report this post


Ariel  
Years ago

Plus in reserves,

no u20 girls
18 girls out
20 boys out
12 boys out

and in the only grand sturt didnt make top 4 they can still get a point for the club.

Way to go expresso!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply #277393 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Sturt just take this carnival way too seriously to be knocked off their perch.

Reply #277396 | Report this post


pallas23  
Years ago

On the boys' side, Sturt and Norwood feature in the finals of all State grades bar U20, where there is no Norwood team entered.

Norwood's boys program seems to be picking up, but their girls are lagging way behind.

Sturt just continually get the job done, and the rest just take it in turns of being next.

Reply #277398 | Report this post


Outsider  
Years ago

Pallas i think you will find that south beat norwood in the semis so it is a Sturt - South Final for the 18 boys

Reply #277415 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Forestville are definitely the new Collingwood

Reply #277423 | Report this post


pallas  
Years ago

Outsider, I'm well aware of that. Talking finals, not grand finals. Norwood and Sturt made top 4 in all Div 1 boys grades

Reply #277444 | Report this post


Dirty Surty  
Years ago

Jack,

Do you understand that you have in 1 statement explained why good kids and their families want to move their kids to sturt?

If your kid has goals and aspirations, why would yo stay at a club that doesn't take Nationals and Classics qualification seriously?

Clubs and people like yourself love to try and cut down the tall poppy, but all you are really doing, is saying to those members of you clubs who actually want to get somewhere and are unhappy with their current club, MOVE TO STURT.

Reply #277454 | Report this post


ITK  
Years ago

I think the funny thing is that Sturt do take State champs seriously, but win or lose it is not the end of the world for both kids and parents.

Reply #277492 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Dirty, everyone wants to go to successful teams I agree but unfortunately until a level playing ground is established the same issues will arise. As I said on the other thread, clubs that were lucky enough to have bars and canteens were light years ahead of those without them. Sturt and forestville use that revenue to fund junior development staff but precious few clubs have those advantages.
Place on top of that a structure that allows kids to play outside their local areas and it opens the door wide to recruiting weaker clubs best talents. Zoning is vehemently opposed by sturt and forestville because it closes loopholes that they and others have exploited for years.
The structure of junior basketball is completely wrong from skewed home court advantages and travel at state champs to the associations refusal to recognise that zoning is a responsible and fairer system of wealth sharing.
It is of little significance who wins state champs because it has been a duopoly for years and is so because of the inequity of structure and facilities and precious little else.

Reply #277497 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

If many people think zoneing is the way to go how do u fairly zone SA and im talking about the enitre state not just the CBD???

Reply #277500 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

277497, can I add that players leaving their clubs to pursue what is sold to them as the mecca of making Melbourne Classics for that one weekend only fails those players in the long run.

Juniors that choose to work through issues at their club work, hard and fight their way through for these opportunities will help their individual development in the long term. Sport is tough, sport is challenging and you need to be tough at the top level, working through issues and coming out on top is all part of the game if you want to succeed in it.

Melbourne Classics is 1 weekend of basketball.

Reply #277502 | Report this post


Denied  
Years ago

Sturt doesn't use their bar or canteen to support the club. They were without them for about 9 months and still managed to employ someone.

Sturt run Aussie hoops, City South and do their own uniforms. Not only have they have created other revenue streams to pay for this position, but they have stopped wasting money on seniors.

Meanwhile other clubs continue to spend on seniors in the hope that an ABA win will bring the kids running through the door.

Reply #277503 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Banker, why do you think most sports zone successfully? Answer, so they don't build super clubs which cripple real competition and the sport?

Reply #277603 | Report this post


Lol  
Years ago

Refer to post #276948.

So funny all the chatter beforehand, yet it wasn't even close. 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st in boys... you have to say that's pretty comprehensive.



Reply #277737 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Denied, Can you share where you obtained the financial information on how every club spends their revenue. You seem to know everything about the operations of every club. Is it posted somewhere so us ill informed people can see this too!!!

Reply #277744 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pallas. My thought process on what you have been saying.

1. Norwood boys doing very well but girls not. Why is this so if there is the same level of development across the club!! I suggest that recent "additions" to the U12, U16, U18 boys teams may have had an impact on their results.

2. Given the recent appointment of a full time person at Norwood and the view that development doesn't happen overnight I think Norwood's results indicate what can happen with seeking better players before even developing them. To me it seems that there is two ways to be successful - develop them like Sturt does, (makes me choke a little to admit that), or bring in new better players like Norwood. In the short term both approaches can be successful but longer term development wins. I refer to U12 boys where Sturt are getting closer and closer with development and I believe will end up overtaking Norwood.

Reply #277748 | Report this post


Denied  
Years ago

anon,

Common practice and go to your clubs AGM and you will see.

Court hire
Uniforms
Coaches Salaries
Player payments

All have to come from somewhere. Junior Fees.

Reply #277763 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So you don't really know Denied. Let's not assume too much based on heresay much of which is not true anyway!!

I do go to my clubs AGM and unless you go to all of them then I suggest you really don't know!!

Reply #277772 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Triton 98

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms
Westside Basketball Association
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:50 am, Tue 22 Oct 2019 | Posts: 796,846 | Last 7 days: 1,565