Anonymous
Years ago

The Facts: MJ vs Kobe

Jordan

15 year career

30.1ppg, 6.2rpg, 5.3apg, 2.3spg, 2.7topg
49.7% FG, 32.7% 3pts, 83.5% FT

Playoffs

33.4ppg, 6.4rpg, 5.7apg, 2.1spg, 3.1topg
48.7% FG, 33.2% 3pts, 82.8% FT

Kobe

14 year career

25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg, 1.5spg, 2.9topg
45.5% FG, 34% 3pts, 83.8% FT

Playoffs

25.5ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.8apg, 1.4spg, 2.9topg
44.8% FG, 33.7% 3pts, 81.5% FT

Also:

MVP's: MJ 5, Kobe 1
Finals MVP's: MJ 6, Kobe 2
Championships: MJ 6, Kobe 5
Scoring Titles: MJ 10, Kobe 2
Steals Titles: MJ 3, Kobe 0
Defensive POTY Awards: MJ 1, Kobe 0




Topic #23183 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

that makes me sleep better

Reply #280058 | Report this post


Big Marty  
Years ago

*sigh* another pointless thread of people trying to put Kobe over MJ.

Reply #280060 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

Big Marty - looks the other way around to me.

Reply #280062 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

I actaully think this thread just paints Jordan in an even better light...

Reply #280063 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yeah agreed I was actually interested in reading this because it's all about the stats. Kobe is lacking in them and the stats do not lie on career stats!

Reply #280064 | Report this post


DJ Rod  
Years ago

Best
Thread
EVER

Reply #280065 | Report this post


Avv  
Years ago

Good thread indeed.

The fact Kobe is even in discussion with MJ is something though. Hasn't been many players over the past 20 years who have even got that close.

Reply #280069 | Report this post


The Banker  
Years ago

Im a lakers fan so im going to argue why Kobe should be considered with MJ

so im disputing the MVP's, Finals MVP and Scoring titles

In each of Kobes 5 championship teams he has been the best skilled player even better the shaq but Shaq was the most dominant player of all time and thats why he got 3 finals MVPs same reason as some people think gasol should of got the last 2 final mvps because he is dominant.

MVPs Look at the competition that Kobe is playing against Lebron James(in a team that makes lebrons stats look better because no one else can score no one else can rebound and lebron is a great passer)
Iverson was a scoring Machine in the early 2000, Nash is an amazing point guard(passing ability is awesome being able to create oppurtunities for others to score)plus he was scoring as well Shaq was the most dominant force of all time

Jordan played in a very competitive era but Kobe is playing against individuals who are more talented then MJs opponents

Same reason as above about the scoring titles better scorers then in MJ era

Reply #280072 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Gasol played well, but I think "dominant" is a bit of a stretch for a guy scoring 15-18 PPG. Shaq was getting 30 and 15 in 99.

Reply #280077 | Report this post


Bizzy  
Years ago

The Banker - I think you are hard pressed to argue that Kobe is playing against better opponents than MJ ever did. Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Hakeem, Ewing, Isiah Thomas etc.

What about if Jordan played in this era with the new handcheck rules? He'd average 40ppg from all the extra free throws. In MJ's era defenders could bump push and hand check the perimeter guys out of position, now you breathe near them and it's a foul.

Reply #280080 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^ great call

Reply #280086 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In Kobe's first 3 championships he wasnt even best player on his team whereas Jordan was in all six championships of his.

enough said

Reply #280090 | Report this post


DJ Rod  
Years ago

here's a good question for you all...

Why has Jordan's legacy seemed to have diminished over time, whereas most players in the past appear to get better as you look back on them?

There is Jordan, then a big gap to the rest but people seem to have forgotten how great he really was!!!

Reply #280094 | Report this post


KEVY47  
Years ago

I haven't Rod.

Thanks for saving me the time in correcting The Banker, Bizzy.

MJ would have ripped this era even more than he did back then, for all you young bucks get some Jordan games from the late 80's early 90's and watch just how physical he was played and still shot near 50% for career.

Can you imagine what Kobe's flopping antics would be like back then?

I'm not a Kobe fan, but this era I'd have to say yes Kobe is the best (keeping in mind LeBron is still only mid 20's) but he is not Jordan.

Reply #280099 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lebron FULL STOP. Who cares about how many championships players have won look at Luke Walton. Lebron is the best player ever to step into this league since its starter. Jordan is the past Lebron is the Future and current best player.

Reply #280100 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Have they? I think we have just become numb to it all. How many other retired players still have one of the biggest selling shoes going around? The whole Jordan label is massive, so I think people have just become accustomed to it all now.

Reply #280101 | Report this post


Big Marty  
Years ago

Ah, now the good debate starts =D

Rather than compare Kobe's stats to Jordan's stats and try and mirror them; why not ask the question,

"Does Kobe Bryant have the same impact in the modern era of the game as Jordan did during his era?"

You can compare some basic stuff like their clutch shooting and streaky scoring; but as Bizzy said, the defensive game was more physical than today's game. I can certainly say that Kobe would need to take at least 1.5 times as many shots as he does now to score 30ppg against the likes of the Robinsons, Ewings, Barkleys, Hakeems etc.

Reply #280108 | Report this post


KEVY47  
Years ago

and Bols, Mutombos, Eatons.

against defenders like Rodman, Dumas, Gerald Wilkins, The Glove, Starks.

Reply #280112 | Report this post


Bizzy  
Years ago

I think Kevy47 & Big Marty have made some interesting points - In Jordan's era there were some exceptional big & physical defenders that weren't scared to give up a foul if they got into the lane, not only that but guys guarding the ball actually cared about defence.

Seriously in this day and age how many lock down defenders can you say there is? How many Paytons, Starks, Dumars etc are there?

Reply #280114 | Report this post


Rat10  
Years ago

Not saying that Kobe is better than Jordan but when looking at Kobe's stats, don't forget that he jumped straight from high school unlike Jordan and came into the league when he was younger. He only played 15 minutes a game in his first season and 26 minutes per game in his second and averaged only 7.6 points per game and 15.4 respectively.

It would probably make for a better comparison based on stats to discount the first 2 or 3 seasons of Kobe.

If anyone wants a reminder of how good Jordan was go get a copy of the 1992 semi-conference finals of the Bulls vs the Knicks (can order a copy from Pontel) - one of my favourite playoff series of all time. The Knicks played an ultra-physical style of basketball against the Bulls and Jordan was unbelievable in standing up to the Knicks and leading his team to victory - he played an awesome game 7. So many inspirational plays by Jordan in this series.

Reply #280162 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Rat10,

At the same time you could make the argument Jordan's 2nd comeback with Washington when he was 39-40 years old ruined his stats. He was then a shell of the player he was and his ppg were 31+ before then and his FG% was above 50% too. Those two years with the Wizards 'ruined' his career stats.

In saying that Jordan is still the only 40yo in NBA history to have a 40 point game, the man was a freak.

Reply #280168 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

No brainer. MJ by a mile.
Not only for the stats etc he put up, but look at who he won with...Wennington, Longley, Perdue (ba ha ha) 40+ Parish and Salley.

How many rings could MJ have ended up with had he played the first seven years of his career with a great center, who was also the most dominant force in the league?

How many titles could MJ have won if he had not taken 18 months off (in between 3-peats) to play baseball?

Could Kobe retire in his prime and then come back, arguably a better player after 18 months out?

Could Kobe retire, then come back as a 39 year old and nearly take a team of misfits to the playoffs?

I don't think he is mentally strong enough to even be considered close to Jordan.

Kobe is good, a great player even.
Mike was/is the greatest.

Reply #280233 | Report this post


vnbozza  
Years ago



What some people forget is that MJ was a complete player, played both ends of the court, could shoot, drive, dish, and then get the stop on the defensive end, and on top of this he was a great team player, motivating the team - Kobe is really only a shooter, he defense is pretty ordinary in comparision, and if he doesn't like a team mate, he gets them traded.


One of my favourite memories of Jordan (and someone more clever will point out which game), during a game towards the end, MJ realised the scoretable had the scores wrong as he always kept a mental tally of the scores - when MJ questioned it and the umpires and bench did a count back and found MJ was right - this story highlights how in tune MJ was to the game - can't see Kobe ever doing anything like that, he would be lucky to be able to count to ten ... lol


Reply #280256 | Report this post


jj  
Years ago

i am a lakers fan. and a kobe fan. heck, i even named my first born Kobe. seriously.

but the fact it's always MJ that players get compared to, pretty much answers the question for you.

it was " is Vince carter better than Jordan", or "is Stackhouse better than Jordan", or "is kobe better than jordan", now it's "is lebron better than jordan", next it will be "is wall better than jordan".

it's always jordan. therefore, meaning the previous comparee was not better than jordan.

no one will ever be better than jordan.

Reply #280263 | Report this post


shano  
Years ago

one word...jordan.

Reply #280277 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Kobe's favourite song...



? ? ?
Sometimes I dream
That he is me
You've got to see that's how I dream to be
I dream I move, I dream I groove
like Mike, if i could be like Mike



Reply #280301 | Report this post


Gheorge Muresan  
Years ago

Jordan is so far ahead of Kobe it isn't funny.
Firstly the skills he learnt in college at NC set him appart from Kobe, who averaged just 10ppg as a rookie without the fundamentals Jordan had in his first season in the NBA.
Throughout his career Jordan also won the defensive player of the year award and was a multiple all-defensive selection.
Jordan also never played with a centre who averaged more than 11ppg.
He had the likes of Dave Corzine, Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue, Stacey King, Luc Longley and Bill Wennington.
These players knew their roles, but could you imagine what Jordan might have done if he had a David Robinson, Olajuwon or Ewing next to him?
Kobe got better while he had Shaq as a teammate and was never the number one option on the team until the big fella was traded to the Heat - which Kobe demanded.
Jordan was also a superior scorer and has to be considered the most effective low post scorer from the guard position the game has ever seen.
And remember Jordan went up against the Joe D, Laimbeer, Thomas and the rest of the Bad Boys who smashed him for three consecutive seasons, Patrick Ewing and the Knicks who always had a no lay up rule, Karl Malone, Magic, Bird and the Celtics, Barkley, he schooled Clyde Drexler in the finals, broke the hearts of the Cavs many times when they had Price and Brad Daugherty, always put on a show in MSG, beat very good Indiana teams in the late 90s and had to guard point guards a lot of the time.
Kobe is very good, but will never be considered on the same level as Jordan.

Reply #280347 | Report this post


Soulman  
Years ago

There was only one Michaeal Jordon so much so that I think Kobe has even based most of his moves on Jordan even down to Jordans trademark tongue, to the way he speaks. For those of you too young to know do yourself a favour and go back in time and watch as much as you can and you will see the that Kobe is MJ all over, atleast Lebron's game is something new and not a copycat

Reply #280352 | Report this post




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