i found that really hard to read

People bagging his D clearly don't watch it.

I'm not saying he's Gary Payton, but he only plays about 13 minutes per game at PG. Carter plays 27 and is considered by most the best defender on the team (bar Herbert) despite opposition PGs piling points on us every week. It's not an individual problem, it's the team D.

Anon, I've said I would replace Winder for the past couple of weeks. Each underperforming import, I've adopted a "give them a bit of time, then make the call" line. Is there anyone else you're aiming your comment at? Bizzy doesn't post that much any more. Skip? Who else is there?

Oh, and ask Ben Fitz if he's sick of me sending him links to D-League point guards yet! I'd love Winder to turn it around and think he has the potential to do it, but it's not just the shooting and the team can't wait forever.

yes surmdog you are right it was a poorly phrased post.
However yours was easy to understand as you didnt say anything

You guys are bagging Winder but DeVries isnt top notch either.

I always remember Jeff Coulls coaching me U16s (eagles) and picking us up and taking us home from Forrestville. Later, team manager at the sixers.
These days , i read a lotta Isaac Forman -
" Winder has the potential to entertain , but fans want a safer option. His preseason form was good, but would fans have him back?... No."

3 leading scorers for us are american,3/4 leading rebounders for us are american what about we get an aussie for once than can get us some points and rebs in the double figure range..

Winder only plays 13minutes at PG because he is constantly in foul trouble!!!! Guy is a dud, so is the team and the SOS group if they dont show the passionate fans that they are willing to make som eseemingly tough calls with this group.

How about we cut Winder, let Carter & DeVries run the point and pick up this cat:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=881

I havent seen him many times live, but when i did he struggled. I think hes a 2 man without a relaible perimeter shot trying to play the one spot and not getting it done. I can see this getting ugly. Surely we should have gone for a pure point guard? I agree though that the overall standard of imports is down and it is hard with the dollars we have to offer to attract a star. But i still think we could do better. Happy to be proven wrong though, it will have to happen soon.

Nut, noticed he was trying to make a comeback. But another vet of more use to us would be Antonio Daniels - PG in the D-League. Come Finals though, I imagine he'll get picked up covering for injuries?

'Toine would create some interest if nothing else. I actually think the team makeup is wrong. Looking at the ladder realistically our finals hopes are very slim. As disappointing as it sounds, I would cut Winder, put more time into Carter, Creek, Hill, Ng, Dowdell & DJ to determine who you go with next year. Put Jake on the bench and start Dowdell or DJ and invest in the future.

Winder aint going anywhere, get used to it. The SOS stuck with Cortez all season last year, they obviously feel they can not afford to change imports now.

If they were going to make a change they would have done it last week considering we had a bye the previous round. By not doing it during this time its clear he is here to stay.

Toine Walker = Ballinger with a bad attitude.

Got any more of those PG names Isaac?

Salim Stoudemire? Curtis Stinson? Aaron Miles maybe?

I'd be wanting to keep all those players bar 1 Nut. I've said it before and I'll say it against but a decision needs to be made about Ng and Hill. One or the other, not both. I'd probably go with Hill.

Carter, Creek, Hill, Dowdell & DJ is a good core and youth movement. Add Balls as an aussie and you're not far from the mark. Fill that out with two better imports (I think Devries can be a great import, if used properly) and you've got the platform set.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Tonie shimmy in a Adelaide jersey. He's potentially playing for $25k in the D-League.

Although as posted SOS did not move on Groves last season chances are will not move on Winder.
Some reason feel they will this year even if only to inject some interest in team when heading to season oblivion.
Obviously dont have to spend a fortune and equal Am dollars on these guys and can take a chance and if fails use Carter Creek etc more with DeVries as PG as well.
Agree that hard to see how can take Hill and NG into next year unless can show some more.
The real key is here that SOS have put everything into this team possible without deep pockets and if we have another cellar dweller season then going to be hard to get good crowds especially season ticket holders that seem to be down this year

X, I did wonder about Stoudamire. Kyle Weaver too.

If we want a PG then give me Aaron Miles. Also Leemire Goldwire or Mustafa Shakur could be worth a look.

I watched an old segment from 1998 the other day between Phil Smyth and Carfino.

A very interesting point was raised by carfino and that was (saying to Phil) "Since you, there really hasn't been a true pass-first type of point guard, who can shoot the ball if he has to in crucials parts of the game, but chooses to set his offensive structure first and foremost"

Now I know people will probably brainstorm and come up with some players since him that do, but my actual point is, although it would be very hard to find a player with that true mentality, that is exactly the type of player we have been needing for years now.

All these imports come in, and they talk up how great passers they are, and how well they can see the floor etc etc. They do these things in pre season, but come to the regular season, and they all turn out the same; Shoot-first-cos-PPG-stats-matter-most mentality. Or they hold the ball for way too long, and don't to give it up, or trust in their teammates abilitles.

I understand that they think the need to score to keep a contract, but a true pass-first point guard is what we need. Geez, its what every NBL team needs.

Stop practising the shooting, and get him to run the floor instead... We have shooters. We just don't have anyone getting it to them in the right spots at the right time.

Agreed, which is why D-Mac and Darnell are two of the best import PG's to play NBL as they were 2 of the most pass first import PG's i can remember and both played great D and could score when needed.

If only we could get a guy like Darnell, every team is probably trying

Speaking of D-Leaguers how bout Oriene Greene?

I think we need to get Cal Bruton and/or Gordie (or whoever is scouting Geordies imports for him) to pick us an import, even send Smyth over to find us our next top line import, he had a pretty good record with fresh-faced imports being Brooks, Farley, Hodge thats better than most coaches import selection.

Orien is another I have mentioned. Scoring well in the D-League, but perhaps a bit too similar to Winder? Hasn't reappeared here since his NZ stint.

Oriene is banned from FIBA comp for a couple of years for a drug incident from memory - think it was in Belgium! He wasnt a star in the NBL anyway, but a very good defender and dangerous in the open court.

Damian Martin is a true pass first point guard, and I would say that while he is a scorer, CJ Bruton is all about running the offence and getting his teammates involved.

Wayne Turner also fit that description, as do Nathan Crosswell and Will Blalock. When he was at the Dragons Adam Gibson very much played that role too, although he was still learning the pg role and didn't have near the understanding of Smyth or Bruton.

Some others who have been pass first point guards are Jamie Pearlman, Brendan Mann, Paul Henare, Luke Cooper, Rhys Martin, Mark Dickel (excluding his brain fades!) and Brad Davidson - I am sure there have been others.

It’s just that players who understand their teammates as well as Smyth don’t come along very often. There weren’t many as good as him at it even at the recent WCs.

Yea, might be a crazy/pointless thought but if we had the choice would people give up Ballinger, Ng and Winder to pick up say Gibson, Forman and a versatile long athletic import SG/SF/PF, either in the mould of Dave Thomas or Galen Young.

I reckon that would be achievable in both points and salary as id guess Ballingers salary alone would just about cover Forman and Gibson (having no idea on what these guys make)

Jonno- Completely agree, D-Mac & Mee, classy pass-first PGs.

Paul- Glad to see your enthusiasm in pointing out carfino's errors in his comment, even if he did say it 12 years ago :-)

What i took from his comment, although i didn't articulate in words, was a True pass-first PG, who makes his mark on the NBL over a 10+yr career as a starter.

I think you'd agree that none of those you mentioned (with the exception of maybe Gibbo & Damian Martin), would fit that description necessarily. I should have clarifyed, my bad.

As for CJ, i see your point about setting up his offense, and that is true to some extent. But i don't think i guy who probably averages 12-15 shots per game, in 33"ish" mins over his career (total guess-timate, I admit), is a true "pass-first" PG.

I would really like to see Adam Gibson flourish into that type of player over his career, i do think he has the capabilities to do so. I was strongly hoping we could secure his services for this season, i really think he would've have made a huge difference to this sixers team, especially to Ballingers offensive output.