That rumour is as good as the one that goes around saying Victorian kids are a year older than ours but still play in the same grade.

more substantiated than that,unfortunately. July 1 approaches.

Doubt that it would work with Sturt as they lease through DECS.

Have heard that they have tried it on with Forestville.

I've heard it's happening - another great move from the powers to be! More mismanagement by BSA!

What next will BSA want a cut of club sponsorship as well? Or does that already happen?

The first born of club presidents as well!

we are in a competition - yet some people here are worried about is evening up the playing field.

so will we next modify the game rules so it creates an even playing field !!!

last time I was 50 points down and driving a morris minor in the car park when everyone else had statesmans - nobody was interested in evening up the "playing field".

the situation of 2 external clubs playing at another teams stadium has been allowed to happen / evolve by the planners.
what if the club canteen refused to supply that game - then they will make no profit from that "visiting" game.

Will the small stadiums open their canteens - I have been at a small stadium and the canteen is all locked up - yet I have never seen the morphett vale one shut - so morphett vale will subsidise the stadium that did not have an open canteen?

I stand corrected if I have misinterpreted this forum topic.

If BSA at behest of the clubs are organising canteen and bar profits to be equally divided into all clubs, why not. I believe, Mavs, Woodville, Norwood, Centrals would be without canteen and bar facilites and can not get them where they are for various reasons. Why not wait till the announcment IF it comes and see the reasoning behind it or move behind it. Remember it is not usually what bSA themselves think up it is often what the clubs have approached them to do.

If you have allowed a situation to occur where you do not have control over something you want control of.

It is your problem for letting it happen in the first place - not the other persons down the road.

I volunteer for my club - maybe they can subsidise my rent then ?

So people think that a basketball communist dictatorship is a great idea? 30% approval rating for a (mildly) socialist federal government at the moment. I bet if it went any further left you would all be on the streets protesting. But it's OK in basketball because you want something for nothing.

the clubs mentioned before would have known the arrangements regarding the canteens and bars from the start.

Why not get something going alternatively and independently - where the club can benefit.

How exactely will BSA determine the profit of said 'cash' businesses?

Very easy to make a loss if you do it right/wrong.

Well all of a sudden those club 'volunteers' manning the bars and canteens should now get paid ther $15 - $25 dollars an hour to man them or maybe BSA should employ people to run these facilities instead.

Oh stop it! You're all being very naughty boys indeed. Just think.......would it be...could it be possible that BSA act in an even way in any undertaking..........see you just answered your own question. It's impossi...bull

LMAO

difficult to work out profit margins??

Income minus expenditure.

With correct book keeping it should not be difficult.

Not really rocket science.

But what expenses? Will volunteers become 'paid staff'?

And what income, considering its cash?

I will be selling booze out the back of my car In the car park and donating the profits to my club

So if Canteen and bar profits are to be distributed, does that also aply for

Norwood Carnival
Aussy Hoops income
Club camps
ABA door income

The doom continues.........all players over 18 will have to pay an extra 5 dollar entry fee at games for every cm in excess of standard length penises and butt measurements for girls is being considered the next taxable ass et..............where will it all end? is there no chance of slaying the black knight of basaville? Be afraid of sparrows, certain rabbits and jack toft my friends.........

to be fair !


SPOT ON MATE - GOOD POINT

Sell the beer at cost price and "recommend" a donation to the value of what you would have sold the beer at ... no profit for bsa to grab ...

The operation of Club canteen and/or Club Bar becomes untenable. The Clubs give up the running of these income streams to BSA to then take over and operate. BSA pay employees to run said facilities that now require a hefty increase in prices to cover costs . All goods in Canteen reach ridiculous price-points. Hours of operation drastically reduced due to only being open a 'prime time' hours. Clubs now have to slug their juniors in additional fees to cover lost revenue. Or run a ridiculously priced Tournament ( see Norwood ) to cover lost revenue . The biggest loser in this whole debacle? The sport of basketball, Mums and Dads taking little Johnny and Jane away to another sport that they can afford AND also pay the mortgage.
Short sighted, cash grab by the powers that be. A disgrace.

notgood I'll offer a counter arguement.

BSA continues to give canteen and bar facilities to clubs at no cost.

Clubs generate money from canteens and bars with no costs associated to them such as rent, electricity, water, maintenance.

BSA covers these costs as manager's of the facility but alas as BSA are running stadiums as charities to clubs through no cost facilities, discounted court hire, no cost court hire for some activities ... these stadiums continue to make little or no money or in fact run at a loss.

BSA is unable to invest in growth of venues, growth of competitions, growth of development programs because its putting all its money into covering the operating cost of a facility which makes money for a tenant but not the management.

Stadiums remain small and run down, if BSA manages to keep them open at all and the whole of basketball suffers so that clubs can have something for free.

I think a lease with a fee is the right business decision. I am nearly certain that some of the canteens do pay their staff....

BSA are a peak body not a private enterprise. They should be HELPING the clubs fend for themselves, not controlling them and not being a bloated basketball dictatorship intent on justifying their own existence. Your arguments would hold if they were a private enterprise. They are not!

If you start paying canteen/bar staff then you will have to up the prices to cover workcover/super this could open a can of worms ( not sure but i think basa had some troble with this a few years ago ) If they start taking a cut will they put money back into the club if the cantenn makes a loss? Will they put money in to have the coffee machine fixed ? Or help cover the cost for a new fridge or frezer?

Well said "Home Coming".
What a great advantage for 'stadiums' within schools, or those with regular school activities, be it netball, basketball, volleyball, gym etc and can afford to operate a canteen 'outside' the BSA game times. Not an equal playing field.
What if a canteen or bar requires A/C to keep the staff happy- who pays?
If staff are required to be paid, does workcover and Super come into it.
Has the person who started this topic got any substance, or is it just stirring the shit pot?

excuse me for raising the topic Hanging Round. By 'substance' you would be referring to match your credentials..or? I've been involved in the sport for 30 years in varying capacities.I was under the belief that the topic was worthy of consideration and debate. If that is your opinion of 'stirring the shit pot' then so be it.

Notgood-- I simply ask whether your topic has any 'substance'?
You started of the topic with "Romour going round"
I am asking whether there are any facts to support this rumour?
I certainly don't agree with the idea, but wonder where/how the rumour started?

Hanging Round it most definitely has 'legs' and is under consideration. Appears to have already been some disguised BSA responses within this thread.

WE NEED PANDAs - Aren't they in line for a big cash injection at the zoo ?

Sturt do have to negotiate with their landlords.

Its Decs.

BSA doesnt pay power for the canteen, the school does.

what amazes me is there is an article in todays advertiser that the pandas / zoo need 24 million.

here we have an activity (basketball) which people / human beings are interested in and facilities they use.

I am sure BSA would never get 24mill in assistance.

The pandas are a great exhibit and we are privileged to have them - but let's look after the people first.

business,

Do you have any idea about how he system works?

Only a fool would believe that any of this revenue generated from this will go back to other clubs. It will merely get wasted like all the other money clubs already give them.

At a recent meeting of our committee, we worked out that our club pays BSA around $125K per year.

$50K of this is purely from court hire, nominations, registratios and affiliations.

We have 50 teams and each game we play BSA gets $100. thats $2500 per week. 30 weeks of the year means $75000 goes into BSA AFTER refs and the door person are paid.

And that doesnt include the $100K we spend on court hire at other venues training the players that then go into the BSA comp.

For this $125K we get bad refs, a program that doesnt come out till half way through the season, and a new bylaw that says we have to pay BSA when they stuff up if we want to query them.

Finally, we were informed that despite all the money we give them, they have specifically told their JDO's that they are NOT allowed to put players into the club system, because BSA want to put these kids into their own domestic competitions so that they can make more money rather than the clubs.

Now, if there are 10 clubs, that works out to be approx $1M. If they need to rip more money out of the competiiton, to pay for development, then they might need to look at what they are spending in terms of wages and outgoings, and what exactly is coming back into them accordingly.

Cause from where the clubs are sitting they are not doing a very good job of geting kids playing the sport.

take a bow Europa, that is exactly what should be laid bare. This misappropriation of funds by our governing body and the repercussions to the grass-roots level. Where the hell is ALL THAT MONEY GOING? More office staff, more feasibility studies,more consultants.

Maybe we could get the Pandas to come out and watch a few games!
Would be a good money spinner, each time they go to a game another $3.00 at the door entry fee, unless they fork out some extra cash for a transfer ticket, plus the general public could come visit them at the stadiums {more entry fees} but alot cheaper than going to the zoo and a bonus of watching some kids play some good ball

Actually Europa I do understand how the system works having been involved quite heavily in my club in the past.

But as I'm not involved in the running of my child's club I am willing to see this from a business point of view not an emotional one, like some of the other posters in here.

Looking at the prices online I don't follow your figures at all.

To start with your 50 teams would I assume cover a cross section of Under 10's to ABA. Your club is only responsible for paying nominations for these teams apart from ABA where your club also pays to a fund to pay for scoretable and referee payments.

Looking at a Junior div 1 game for example. $7.00 @ 8 players (assuming your team has 8, some have more some have less) = $56.00 income. Adding in spectators at $3 (which is less then it used to be when I was on a committee) might get your one team's income to BSA up to appox $92. Include the opposition team and that's $184. For 2 teams, not 1.

$184 income from one game. Less referees ($35), Less Umpire In Charge, Less Door person, Less Court hire (in some cases), Less other costs such as electricity in BSA stadiums.

Maybe $100 from one game, from two teams.

Remember your club isn't paying $125k. If you're $50k figure is accurate then that's all your club is paying. Your members are paying the rest.

No matter how good referees were people would complain. You want better refs, then expect to pay double what you and your members pay now. Based on my experience in other sports basketball referees would be the lowest paid referees in the state. You get what you pay for.

My own experience with programs is that clubs are to blame not BSA. Why do you think BSA can't do a draw from the start? Because clubs keep pulling teams out and requesting to put new teams in. How is that BSA's fault?

Your numbers just don't stack up.

Again a simple online check around State Associations will show you that the money isn't wasted. BSA has less then half the staff of other State Associations. How are BSA wasting money on office staff? Surely they need more? That way they can provide a better service, source alternative sources of revenue, provide better referee development programs ...

Sorry Europa but I think you're a tad emotional over something that may or may not happen and even if it does, no one knows just how much BSA will be asking of clubs for providing a space, patrons and covering ongoing costs so they can make $20-60k profit.

An don't forget BSa would have to pay public liability insurance which is a fortune..

business,

You obviously aren't involved with your club.

Most clubs provided that 'space' themseleves. Built and paid for with their own money and members efforts. Or through ourside bodies like DECS and the Showgrounds or councils

Our club does more than pay team nominatoins. Nominations for 50 teams equates to over $5K each season plus ABA. And another $5k for State Champs. It also pays BSA for individual player registrations, about $15 per plyer or $5.5K. Plus it pays and insurance levy of $6 per player or $2.5K. Plus a BA levy of about $5 per player or $2K. Plus we pay court hire for trainings of $20K, this does not include the $100K we pay elsewhere.

If you look at my figures, I put 2500 as the weekly figure. Thats 25 games multipled by $100, or half of the 50 teams which makes 25 games, which is $2500. We play 30 games on average. Ths comes to $75K And yes it is my opinion that this is my clubs money, its my clubs members, paying BSA this amount of money. Because my committee and coaches do all the work, not BSA. Without my club spending the time to recruit players into the sport, and administrering these player, BSA would not get $1. And they provide no assistance in getting kids playing the sport. Or helping clubs keep them playing.

As for electricity. BSA runs social and other programs that make a similar, if not greater amount of money. Which puts them at over $2M generated from competitions. But about $1M from district. DO you want to add that to their electricity bill? They come out way in front.

The figures

Nominatons $19K
Court Hire $20K
Player registation $5.5K
Insurance $2.5
Levy $2K

Plus $75K in game fee.

There is a reason why clubs like South and Woodville are struggling. Its because BSA would rather take their income streams like Aussie Hoops, Canteens and anything else they can get their hands on and are incapable of providing even 1 player into their club. The clubs pull out teams because kids leave the sport. And BSA does nothing to assist retention by over charging, and squeezing the people/clubs they have. Something they are doing here again.

BSA's crowning glory in club assistance, has been getting Woodville back to St. Clair where they started 30 years ago. And screwing up Norwood getting back to CLC where they were 30 years ago.

Great Work. Where does all this money go?

great post Europa, I recon we just let BSA have it all.
The quicker we give it all to them the quicker they'll stuff it up and then the clubs take over.
after all thats what BSA stands for (Better Spend All of it).
AND YES BRING ON THE PANDAS.

anon #295

It wasn't the clubs fault that the 36ers and Lightning were losing $2M per year, the Dome was a white elephant done by the then CEO and board, which was set up to circunavigate the clubs. The clubs had no say in it.

And what has changed at junior level since BSA has taken it over. Nothing, except the insurance and registration that was once included in the ticket price increases, now come seperate without a decrease in ticket prices. Funny that there has been a coresponding decrease in participation at junior level.

Ok Europa who seems to have this all nutted out;

where is BSA mis-spending the income?

Do you think it is feasable for BSA to chop Money off of Fees and tickets? If so how much?

What do you suggest would be the best revenue source for BSA, either new or existing?

How do BSA get more people involved with Basketball?

I'm asking this in a positive approach, as you seem to have strong opinion about what BSA are doing wrong.

Did the BSA DO in the area provide numerous kids to this program to make it more profitable?

I bet they will now that they are taking the money.

Then they will put them into BSA domestic teams.

Meanwhile, Woodville will struggle to exist and BSA will actually lose more money in the long term.

Please, try a bit harder than that.

Europa did you miss my post?

I'll add another question too,

What do you believe the purpose of Ausse Hoops and Domestic Program is? And would it be a money spinner for BSA?


It so far seems that your happy to rag on everything/anything that BSA do, but when I ask some pretty simple questions you don't respond...

Oh and the poor me Woodville story doesn't wash with me.

Look at St Claires BSA run mini ball comp, and then explain to me why Woodville can't get u10 and u12 and even players for Aussie Hoops!

Clearly not putting in the effort required for the output Desired.

BSA can't run basketball in this state....

Lost all sponsors in 4 years

Didnt get one cent of the government hand outs to join with schools and build

Has not got all the bodies controlling the sport to agree on moving forward

Has run promotion / relegation which now sees some Winter divisions have three teams from one club and U23 comps with 5 teams from two clubs

It has 12 team comps playing 18 rounds hence not everyone plays everyone twice , and still expects parents to pay $6 to play and $3 to watch terrible lopsided games.


Stronger clubs have got stronger, weaker clubs just dont get help and BSA wont listen or act.

ABA is training more than they play, all clubs requested Div 2 to move to Wednesday with no response and seniors never play at their home courts.

And now this comes up.

BSA can't run basketball, how could it expect to run anything with date codes and use by dates.

Port Adelaide, Marion and Hillcrest are proof they would fail running canteens and bars.

I need a drink!

Welcome to run bar and canteen at MARS and St Clair.

Welcome to run bar and canteen at MARS and St Clair.