Credit
Years ago

Referee skips town!

Word on the street is benn mcdonald has flown the coup & chosen to do a seabl final this weekend instead of an abl final.fair decision & best of luck or poor decision by an overrated ego driven punk?

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Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Is there a refereeing body that co-ordinates assignments nationally or are the two bodies (ABL and SEABL) completely separate from each other?

What would happen if Phil Haines headed overseas yet again instead of doing an ABL final? Is it similar?

Reply #327543 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Bring on the green shirts.

Reply #327546 | Report this post


noay  
Years ago

credit might you be wondering why you didnt get that gig
good on benn for heading out of town

Reply #327548 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I would imagine the 2 competitions are seperate and I owuld certainly wonder how that could happen.

Reply #327551 | Report this post


Credit  
Years ago

Noay, while I admit I don't like benn as a referee, I hope he justifies his decision by having a great game so he progresses to the next week.if not biting the hand that feeds him would prob see him without a final here.
Moses, your actually comparing being chosen to represent your country with choosing seabl over your local competition.wasn't there a comment on a thread that said phil haines wasn't allowed to do finals due to some 50 game nbl rule?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I would suggest no communication between the SEABL commissioner and the CBL commissioner. If they had discussed the opportunity of a class i also suggest there wouldnt have had to be a withdrawal. The joys of cohabitation with refs. At least it will give an opportunity to the referee next in line on the order of merit to get a chance at a final and the experience that brings

Reply #327560 | Report this post


Frank grimes  
Years ago

It is true that phil haines and andrew filmer can't do cabl finals due to doing more than 50 nbl games. Trevor would have spoken to tim mills before doing the rostering. And in all honesty, benn should definately have chosen seabl over cabl. He will be back next week for cabl grand finals. Potatoes gonna po tate

Reply #327563 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What SEABL game has Benn McDonald got?

Reply #327570 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I bet there is no stupid 50game rule for refs in the SEABL

Reply #327577 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I bet there is

Reply #327578 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

there is definitely the 50 game NBL rule invoked in SEABL and Big V.

Reply #327588 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

must be the same brain surgeon who put that rule in both comps then

Reply #327595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It was a rule created by BA to maintain the development theme of the then ABA. It's a rule that gives second tier referees the opportunity to gain more experience. Otherwise if you give the same people the finals for the next 20 years and then they retire you have a whole group who A) have never refereed a finals game and B) probably didnt stick around due to the lack of opportunities to advance. There is already a log jam confronting referees trying to get to the elite level (WNBL/NBL). If you take away finals from the next tier what is the point in them refereeing if they are never going to get an opportunity.

It would be like the sixers bench never playing any court time and then the starting 5 all retire and now become the starting 5 and have never played at this level before. It's why NBL bench players go back to the lower leagues to get court time and experience. In the referee fraternity the NBL refs take the ABA season off, they must referee 5 games during the season to fulfil their state commitments (This is written into the WNBL/NBL referee manual). These 5 games are used as coaching opportunities by league commissioners and the NBL refs are generally put with inexperienced referees to show them how to conduct a proper pre-game, in game coaching etc. It has been a valuable tool in Victoria.

People who think this is a bad policy are short sighted and live in the now. If you dont develop 2nd tier referees then they will never put selection pressure on the referees above them and refereeing will never develop at anywhere near the same rate as the level of play in this country. BA and all state controlling bodies already put minimal resources into referee development as it is.

People might hate referees but without them there is no game and until we develop the referees in this country by applying resources and increasing the education delivered it will remain stagnant and in real terms that in comparison to the development of the level of coaching and development players get is going backwards.

Reply #327597 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Benn has the South Men 3 v 4 final Frankston v Sandringham with Daniel Banik (3 NBL games) and Ron Clarke (ex-NBL 8 games)

Reply #327599 | Report this post


ineedmore  
Years ago

So endeth the lesson.

Well said anonymous. (gosh there's a lot of you...)

Reply #327600 | Report this post


ineedmore  
Years ago

So endeth the lesson.

Well said anonymous. (gosh there's a lot of you...)

Reply #327601 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And its also a rule that gives teams the chance to get boned in a one off Final by inexperienced refs.

Good call BA.

Reply #327603 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Very rarely at the CBL level, SEABL or BIG V do teams get BONED and lose a game. What a cop out.

A wonderful intelligent response to the discussion.

We lost so it's the ref's fault! If the team loses it wasnt because they shot say 35% from the field, because they missed 9 of 15 free throws, turned the ball over 20 times, only had 6 assists, didnt block out and got out rebounded 2 to 1 etc

Nah that team lost this weekend because Haines, Filmer and McDonald werent on the game.

And those inexperienced referees you cry about are the future of refereeing in your state. Maybe develop and encourage them rather than blaming them for every loss a team has. Referees make mistakes, but not as many mistakes as players make each and every game.

The purpose of the policy is lost on you due to your narrow-minded view of the game. The game IS about the players but the game is not JUST the players.

Reply #327606 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Spoken like a true knob with a whistle

Reply #327607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

how articulate of you.

Reply #327609 | Report this post


consistency  
Years ago

yes players do mess up and when players go back to training they get flogged for it.
what do refs get??

we must always see things from a refs point of view but do they ever get told to see it from ours?

Reply #327610 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

refs get flogged too from coaces, plyers and spectators each week

Reply #327612 | Report this post


balance beam  
Years ago

consistency, yes,everyone is always on here bagging refs

Reply #327613 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why do you think at the elite level they get evaluated, critiqued and given a rating which dictates where they score in the end of season order of merit. Hence if they mess up as you say and have a shit season they dont rank high enough to get selected for finals.

Referees who perform poorly on a regular basis generally get dropped to women's games or get rostered with a more experienced senior official to help educate them. At the elite level there is a performance management system that activates once a referee is evaluated and scores below their band. 3 strikes and they drop a level and not only does this get them appointed to lower level games it hits them in the hip pocket as they get paid less.

Referees for the most part try and apply the rules to each and every game fairly, with the attitude of what is best for the game. Some do it better than other there is no denying that. I have seen very few games that have been decided by a refs decision, especially at the elite level. I occasionally happens but rarely. Have I seen terrible calls and bad mistakes absolutely. But for the most part the teams decide who wins or loses.

And unfortunately its the nature of humans officiating sport, mistakes happen. No one tries to make a mistake but you cant rule them out completely. Every sport from cricket and tennis which has hawkeye, the NBA and NFL that have video technology to help out, mistakes are still made and will always be made.

But again until in Australia we put more resources into officiating it will always be below the level that it should be.

The elite players get paid good money to be the best players they can, i dont see the same investment in the people held accountable for officiating it.

Reply #327615 | Report this post


consistency  
Years ago

ok ill admit when im wrong, thanks for the clarification

but anon615 turn up to a couple of our games the refs have cost us a couple in the dying moments

Reply #327617 | Report this post


ineedmore  
Years ago

Anon 607. Spoken like a true knob who has never wanted to expand their understanding of the great game by experiencing it from another perspective.

Reply #327620 | Report this post


ineedmore  
Years ago

And because I'm all fired up...

Consistency: can I ask if your team, which lost a couple of games only because of the refs, missed any lay ups in the entire game?

Also, how much do you think you would have won by without any refs?

I do respect your open mind however.

Reply #327621 | Report this post


Consistency  
Years ago

Ineedmore they did, but what I'm saying is that in the dying moment the ref called something that did decide the game

Reply #327622 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Consistency
he did that because that's his job. The player decided the game by fouling.

Reply #327623 | Report this post


Air jordan  
Years ago

Got a questions for all the ABL Ref's reading this post:

How much time do you spend on improving your game each week?

ABL player average week:

- Train twice a week. 2 hours per session
- Individual's or shooting sessions: 1-5 hours (granted depends on the individual)
- Game either U23's or div 2 game. 1-2 hours
- PLUS actual ABL game. 2 hours

So even at a minimum of 6 hours a week and it would be safe to say coaches are doubled that.

And most of those times the players and the coaches are there watching critiquing nearly even step they make.

How much time a week does an ABL referee spend getting better? And you can't count actual refereeing games because they aren’t evaluated every game you do like players are?
Now I’m not bagging the referee’s as im sure they do a good job, not a good as when an evaluator is out there watching but you know as good as they need to be.

And before you jump on and start bagging to post you just need to see on facebook and the facebook posts that some these referee’s make about going out and getting drunk and getting no sleep the day before they do a ABL in their first year of refereeing ABL.

Reply #327624 | Report this post


balance beam  
Years ago

If you beleive everything you read of facebook, who is the dummy. I could be 18, handsome, ripper abs or 80 short, over weight and bald, you wouldn't know.

I could post of facebook that I was married, in a relationship, single or whatever and how would you know?

I could post I have had no sleep and got drunk the night before and you would possibly find it is a 'in joke' between friends and possibly not the truth at all.

Reply #327625 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"How much time a week does an ABL referee spend getting better? And you can't count actual refereeing games because they aren't evaluated every game you do like players are?"

I disagree with the idea that a referee cant count refereeing a game because theyre not evaluated. A good referee will always find bits to work on for every game regardless of evaluator or not. Many referees use underpinning leagues to work on areas of their game so that when they referee at higher levels their game is more polished.

Reply #327626 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

And many players simply go through the motions at training sessions or at individuals rather then actually working on their game.

In both cases it comes down to what each individual personally invests into their own development.

Reply #327627 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Air Jordan its a valid question.

There are some that do more than others and there are some who get by on the bare minimum. Sounds like some players really doesn't it.

Due to the nature of refereeing (for arguments sake and individual pursuit) most states don't have "group" training activities/sessions just due to the simple geographical location of referees. I'm not sure about Adelaide but in other states the sprawl of referees makes it difficult to get everyone together to train. So most do individual training sessions coming together for action days and 2 fitness tests yearly. ( before you or others say that isn't enough if they become unfit it will show up in their evaluation and be marked according and it would be an area to work on in future etc).

Also not sure about Adelaide but in other states its very easy to get copies of game DVD's to watch back your own performance and self evaluate. Some will watch with rose coloured glasses, others will be more critical than the evaluator and hence those officials will improve greater than others.

So in putting some form of answer to your question some would do far less than 6 hours a week, but others would do way more than 6 hours a week. It's no different to players, referees will get out of it what they are willing to put in. And the best trait a referee can have is critical self evaluation. Those who have that will get to the next level. Those who don't and who continually insist that they are always right are the ones who will sit in the lower leagues and be the basis for criticism as per this thread.

Reply #327631 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

"Now I'm not bagging the referee’s" is the new "I'm not racist, but..."

Reply #327647 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They really should block the internet from going down the Le Fevre peninsula.......

Reply #327648 | Report this post


Frank grimes  
Years ago

Great call isaac anon631 - it's good to see that someone is actually using their brain when reading this thread and giving well thought out answers air jordan - i wonder if you have had any refereeing experience at all? If so, doesn't sound like it's at cabl level that is certain. potatoes gonna po tate

Reply #327660 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This is really sad. Not surprising for Adelaide. Small Town!

Reply #327662 | Report this post


Bill  
Years ago

Bring back welby to aba i say!!!

Reply #328002 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

SEABL Rostering this season has been a bit of a joke, jobs for the boys etc.
Some officials have been able to get great games yet havent had to pass fitness testing or theory testing.
Others have been banished for 1 average performance.
No consistancy.
Then look at some of the travel and weekends away on the roster for "mates"...
Hopefully there will be a change in leadership next season otherwise there will be more officials quit.

Reply #328041 | Report this post


Joker  
Years ago

Please take him back, what a waste of an airfare!!

Reply #328052 | Report this post


nah  
Years ago

anon 328041
you sound like a typical vic ref who is upset because the best referees have been selected for SEABL games and you are not happy being stuck in Big V

Perhaps you could look in the mirror at performance

Reply #328162 | Report this post


Ineedmore  
Years ago

Hey Consistency.

Even if the ref made a shocking call in the last minute I think you could put the argument that your team lost the game when they missed their first lay up.

You probably would have been up two/even by then so when the bad/wrong call came along in the last minute it wouldn't have had an impact.

My point is refs and players get it wrong/make mistakes and in a game of forty minutes if you want to say a ref cost you the game with one call you have to consider the option your team lost it with one missed shot, one turnover etc etc.

Losing by a close margin always sucks, but just remember PATRICK MILLS IS COMING!!!


Reply #328180 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ineedmore I dont subscribe to that theory. If anything ref's have to concentrate more at the end of the game so that in the last 3 minutes they DONT make an error that has the possibility to decide the outcome. Doing his or her job and calling a foul that is there isnt deciding the game but making an error late in the game that influences the result in an unacceptable situation for all involved. It doesnt matter that a team missed 5 lay ups or 6 free throws the game is on the line at the death and referees must insure that they are physically and mentally "FIT" so that at the end of the game when the game is on the line they are in the best position to make the best call for the game. We dont deal in "what-if's" the game at that moment is wont needs to be taken into account not hat a team shot poorly throughout! If it's a close game that is the moment the ref's must be in.

Reply #328222 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I see the new roster is out and Mr McDonald is on the road again.

Reply #328224 | Report this post


balance beam  
Years ago

consistency should remember all these points when he or she next referees seeing they know so much about umpiring they must be a ref. Inneedmore they he or she can't see your point about mistakes early in the game they can only get hung up on call late in the game. Next time they hit court we expect them to call a perfect game.

Reply #328242 | Report this post


ineedmore  
Years ago

Anonymous I don't subscribe to your theory that refs must really concentrate more in last three (or so) minutes.

That's crazy talk! Refs don't "cruise' and then decide to apply themselves in the last few minutes - anymore than players do.

In my opinion everyone on the court is trying to do their best work the entire game. Not for just bits of it.

Reply #328447 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ineedmore........can you point out anywhere in my post where i stated ref's cruise?? I said no such thing. I was merely stating errors are more critical at the end of the game where there is less time left for a team to try and win the game after an error. No referee wants to make a mistake. Mistakes are mistakes whenever they occur in the game but they are more critical in the last 3 minutes of a close game.

Reply #328485 | Report this post




 

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