Years ago

What now for the 36ers?

1 out 6 for the season so far what now for the 36ers

Topic #26791 | Report this topic

36ers solja  
Years ago

it will be 1 out of 6 next week when we host the Tigers and what a flop that will be.

With any luck, we get some interstate refs who actually ref well. Bitterly disappointing last night with some extraordinary fouls being called and some not.

I cant see finals, and cant see us doing much better than 6th if we get the ball rolling.

Another year of zip and another $320 gone. Gotta wonder how long people will take this before either leaving or ditching the club?

Reply #338636 | Report this post

Years ago

Sadly and patheticly to some degree, ill continue to buy my season tickets and keep getting my heart broken each year. Adelaide havent had a competitive 36ers lineup for several years now. I hate the coach etc but i will always go, its interesting and i love the game. But i would put it more so that Id like to get better value for my money!

Reply #338638 | Report this post

Years ago

Value for our hard earn $ is what it is all about and I think most would agree that value hasn't been there for a few years now. What frustrates me is the arrogance of the coach who dismisses the fans and just tells us to be patient. As soon as we complain we are called fair weather followers. I fear that until we get a real NBL standard coach instead of a AIS development coach we won't be getting any better.

Reply #338639 | Report this post

Years ago

Great post Spinner!

It is a very difficult situation.

I was under the impression that after beating Perth and some what competitive against NZ, that a win against Sydney would see us in the right direction finally. However, now I see us heading towards the worst season record ever (Surpassing last season's effort).

Our only chance against the Tigers is that they play the night before against Perth so hopefully they are tired and can only hope the guys give it one last effort to get this season back on the right track by getting a win.

Reply #338645 | Report this post

Years ago

I genuinely feel for the diehard supporters who buy season tickets year in year out despite the low budget & heartless teams the owners keep trotting out.

Eventually the diehards will get jack of it.

The team desperately needs new owners who understand you have to spend money to make money. The current owners can be as frugal as they like but they're killing the 36ers brand.

The season is basically already over and not even in mid-November yet.

Reply #338650 | Report this post

Years ago

Once again the Sixers ARE spending the cap so I don't know what you are going on about. The owners have done a great job to keep the team alive. Unfortunately the coach has been a dud.

Reply #338655 | Report this post

Years ago

How can you say the 36ers are alive when all the evidence points to the opposite conclusion.

Reply #338658 | Report this post

Years ago

I like our young talent in Weigh, Johnson, Creek, our 2 imports look good and both are the style of players we need, if we can retain those 5 for the next few years we will be fine, we are just a young/inconsistent team at the moment, if we can retain those 5 that would be a step in the right direction. The key is retaining the core players for several seasons ala NZ and Perth.

This offseason/next season the keys are to retain Creek and Johnson, the 2 best young players in the league, hopefully we will be able to keep Warren and Simpson, best import combo in a while and both young and have the right skill sets to blend in with our young
We should have cap space next season with Ballinger being off contract and im guesssing he is taking a fair chunk of our cap, so hopefully its enough to retain Johnson and Creek, keep our 2 imports or get equally as good and hopefully add another good aussie player into the mix. I would consider retaining ballinger but on greatly reduced money and a reduced role, as he obviously is never going to be the main man on a top side, but yea wouldnt be too upset to let him go if he gets a bigger offer elswhere.

If we can retain our 5 good young players, hopefully add an extra good player with Ballingers money, id be happy to give Clarke his 3rd year and would expect to be in the playoffs, or very very close. As Clarke has gone about the rebuiling like AFL clubs do and as shown in the AFL when you put together a young team it takes 3-5 years to make the playoffs, we are in year 2, sure i think we should have won last night against the kings but we did get it to over time and scored over 100 points which many teams are not doing, and Johnson looks like he is going to be the best C very soon, Weigh had his worst game id expect he will play better most of the time, just 5% more from him we would have won last night IMO, so its definatly not all doom and gloom and we would be stupid to break it up and start again when we have 3 of the best young aussies going around.

If Clarke was recruiting old guys like Smyth did at the end ala Wheeler, Copelend, i wouldnt be as patient, i just think he is going about it right by blooding top young talent and it will work out if we stay patient and can retain them. Just see it as the AFL clubs term it as a 'rebuilding phase' and it appears to me they are doing it right, so im willing to see it out and see how good we can get with our young talent over the next few years.

Reply #338661 | Report this post

Years ago

The problem isn't the fact that there is a 3 to 5 year plan, the issue I have is how it is being executed by Clarke. Very little point in developing players without ensuring that they are going to be retained for the duration of the "plan"!

These young guns we have won't stay in a losing team that won't make finals so the whole focus can't be on the future. The best 5 players for each situation have to be on the court. Preseason is for experiments and trying diferent combinations, not the season proper. Last night there were combinations that simply weren't right for the situation, but Clarke persists.

It was great to see how yet again the supporters responded to the club's call for an effort from the stands. Disappointing that the coach couldn't deliver.

Reply #338666 | Report this post

Years ago

Yea agreed on Clarkes rotations, there were a few last night that i didnt like, but aslong as he keeps Johnson and Creek next season and continues to develop and adjust his game night coaching, i think he is making small changes atm, im happy to persist with him for next year.

Reply #338669 | Report this post

Years ago

Throw some decent money at Brad Newley, getting very limited minutes overseas. Maybe he would be looking to come home.

Reply #338672 | Report this post

Years ago

Can't see how this can be put on owners. They and the coach recruited well. This is all on court, IMO. Full team, no real injuries. Strategy, talent level, leadership, etc. Interior D seemed pretty disorganised. Simpson new, Ballinger didn't look completely comfortable coming off the bench - I mean he was trying 100%, but looked a bit out of sorts. I think I'd just throw him back into a starting role so he can snap back into his confident game. I know they need Simpson out there for rebounding and trapping though.

Reply #338674 | Report this post

Years ago

We have Melbourne and Gold Coast in next two home games so we need to win games,as teams above sixers are winning,Weigh is having a bad run ,put balls back into starting 5 and see what happens.

Start Johnson,Ballinger,Simpson,Warren,Herbert

then weigh,Crosswell,creek,Ng and Helliwell

See how this goes and Hope for a win against Patty Mills Melbourne team.

Reply #338675 | Report this post

Years ago

Developing a team does take time -look at Geelong- but it would be nice to see that there is actually a plan. Wholesale changes from last year and expiring contracts on Creek and Johnson who could have been the centre piece. Mind you it would help if there had been some development in Creek's shooting in the past 18 months. New imports seem reasonable. I'm guessing with the paucity of court time Ng receives he will be gone next year as well (gotta wonder why they bothered this year unless it was to have a token South Australian in the team) The problem for supporters would be that there has been wholesale changes year in year out and a complete absence of chemistry and improvement. There can be few people with the confidence that history will not repeat after another wooden spoon.

Reply #338677 | Report this post

Big Ads  
Years ago

The season now rests on the coaches getting Ballinger firing at his best. He's Adelaide's x-factor for the remainder of the season. Previously the team needed his offense however this no longer appears the case given Adelaide's recent ability to put high scores on the board with little offensive return from Ballinger.

Last night the crowd witnessed a very un-balls like shooting performance, open shots that have previously been his bread and butter never looked like dropping. He needs to regain his touch and quickly otherwise he becomes an over paid (unfairly assumed), low percentage jumpshooter with little lockdown ability on defense.

If something does not change then Ball's may become expendable much sooner than he will like.

Reply #338683 | Report this post

Years ago

Imagine if there hadn't been wholesale changes after a poor season? Likewise, would you rush to resign anyone if there were questions over workable combinations?

It's a little different to the Hawks for example where you could see that Saville's injury and absence was a big part of their bad run, so only tweaks were required (especially on their budget).

Reply #338688 | Report this post

Years ago

Recruited well? We put together a team of blokes well regarded around the league as some of the worst defensive players in the league.

The result? The worst defensive team in the league.

Reply #338692 | Report this post

Years ago

Exactly changes were needed last season as Clarke kept most of Ninnis's squad and got a similar result, i am a Holmes fan but can understand why the let him go, especially with Weigh coming into the forward rotation and Simpson gives us a good athletic inside precense with active hands on defense and on the boards next to Johnson,

IMO our Starting 5 should be Warren, Creek, Weigh, Simpson, Johnson, with Crosswell backing up the guards, Ballinger back up the bigs and the rest play minimal minutes.

Gives us a well balanced starting 5 all whom are under 25, and 2 veterans off the bench. Its only a 40 min game our stars should be playing atleast 30 IMO.

If we can retain that 5 (atleast the 3 Aussies) for the next several seasons we will have a strong team going forward, remember young teams are inconsistent in all sports, its common in the AFL, takes young teams 3-5 years to become good then they stay up the top for around 5 years if they can retain there core, we are in year 2, if we can keep our young starting 5, they continue to improve and bring in another good young aussie or 2 off the bench, which should be possible with Clarkes AIS connections next season, im happy for Clarke to continue next year and think we will be fairly good.

1st step is retaining Creek and Johnson, given Ballinger would be our highest paid player is coming off contract and they would either give him a reduced role and $$ or let him go there should be good $$ around to retain our young talent and recruit an extra young potential star IMO.

If Clarke cant deliver this then questions should be asked on how good his AIS/top young talent connections/recruitment is, but given he has bought in possibly the 3 best under 25 year old players in the league so far id say he has done fairly well in recruitng the top young players, if this can continue and we continuously see the top young players coming to adelaide and improving, we will hopefully be able to build a very strong program like Bevo and Goorj did, where they developed a strong side after a couple of years in coaching by recruiting and retaining top young talent, and stayed there by continuosuly bringing in the top young aussies available year after year,

Clarke has shown signs of this already IMO, and if he gets the right talent and guys like Weigh, Creek, Johnson stick around and improve even just another 5-10% we will have a strong team and winning will happen, no matter if Clarke doesnt fully perfect his rotations, etc. Goorj and Bevo are both stubborn coaches with floars to their game plans, they just have great talent, we also need to remember we cant just buy talent like some of Goorjs teams, hence why we have to get them young and develop and retain. Goorj was also very good at this.

IMO the signs are there, its year 2, lets say it takes 3 years so he gets atleast until the end of next year, aslong as he retains Creek and Johnson, and brings in another good young player, then we can truly judge him, if they are still struggling end of next year then id look elsewhere but IMO we will be fairly good if we retain our young starting 5.

Too early to right off Clarke IMO, he is just in the 3-5 year re-building phase, and AFL clubs such as Geelong under Thompson have shown if you keep the this process and be patient the winning will come. Just takes time, Geelong with a young team went from around 9th to 1st in one season, the Breakers jumped up from out of the playoffs last season to win the title, after having 3 years with the same group, so it can happen very quickly after 3 years just need to build a core, good chemistry and retain the good ones.

When was the last time the 36ers have been able to say we have the best 3 guys under 25 in the league and a coach able to recruit those guys who in the past went to guys like Bevo and Goorj and help them build dynesty. That alone aslong as it continues should give Clarke a couple more years in the helm IMO.

Reply #338697 | Report this post

Years ago

Coaches collectively voted Melbourne and then Adelaide (from memory) in the pre-season poll as having recruited best this off-season.

Reply #338701 | Report this post

Years ago

Given that this thread is about the future of this season, it might be a good place to mention Simpson: 20ish MPG, yet to score less than 10 points in a game and shooting at 74%. Plus 7.6 RPG in that court time. That's a pretty good start that he can hopefully build on.

Reply #338703 | Report this post

Years ago

Exactly, seems to be a good, young import along with Warren, i love his active hands inside and on defense and the boards, i hope we can bring them both back next year.

Reply #338704 | Report this post

Years ago

Individually, Ballinger is a good signing, as is Johnson as is Ng, as is Weigh, as is Warren, etc.

But as a collective unit the team is a collection of good offensive players but terrible defenders.

It was pretty obvious we were going to be an ordinary defensive team.

Nowitzki is an absolute gun but it took Dallas recruiting great defenders like Kidd, Chandler, Butler and Marion around him to build a championship team.

You can get by with one defender as bad as a Johnson or a Weigh or a Warren but you can't have a whole team of them and chuck in a Herbert and expect to win.

Reply #338710 | Report this post

bretts the man  
Years ago

Jonno and others please stop saying Creek and Weigh best young players in country.
Creek least has some idea about defence but absolutely no real offensive weapons but a drive if key open.
cannot hit a open shot then don't play NBL
WEIGH knows lots of ways to turn ball over or have stupid shots and fouls
Warren could not defend a u--14 player and why in last qtr why was he just standing in corners whilst Crosswell dribbled around with the ball until he chucked it away.
I feel for us season ticket holders but feel for SOS and hope we last another season as must be losing heaps and will get worse
Adam --Adam you can't defend mate so just go out there grab the ball and shoot some points mate and if doesn't work next week will the following week.
We have nothing to lose and might score a 120 points and win

Reply #338711 | Report this post

Years ago

Agree Brett.

Creek and Weigh combo at the moment is far closer to Jason Williams and Mark Nash than a young Maher and Cattalini.

In fact, Jason Williams and Mark Nash were far more valuable at the defensive end.

Looking at perhaps the worst record ever for a 36ers team this season.

Reply #338714 | Report this post

Years ago

I shudder to think what Ballinger can do under a competent coach. Just look what Holmes has done to his game, Ballinger will just tear us a new one if we ditch him next year. Noone in Adelaide has performed as they should under the last 2 coaches.

Reply #338717 | Report this post

Years ago

Personally I'm not worried about the coaches predicting we had the 2nd best recruiting in the offseason.

The reality is we're on the bottom of the ladder (yet again) with one win from six games, and give up the most points in the league.

Reply #338724 | Report this post

Years ago

I'm no expert but from next weeks game against Melbourne I would bring Balls back into the starting lineup at PF. But who to drop back to the bench? Cross and Warren seemed to work well together last night from what I understand.

My starting 5 would be Warren, Cross, Simpson, Balls and DJ with Creek, Ng, Weigh, Simpson and Helliwell coming on as needed.

I don't know, I'm just glad I'm not the one making the decisions for the club. Its a thankless task.

Reply #338726 | Report this post

Years ago

Hey, I'm not pretending that they can defend - I've said that they can't for years. I also think recruiting options have been difficult (Gibson, Wortho) so the sorts of players we need have been hard to get. The tough bit is that the two primary offensive players inside leak points together. Ballinger was already signed and then DJ was added as a chance to get a young, future scorer. They need to be starters, so where do you add D from there?

My response is in regard to criticism of ownership for not spending enough. They're tight and it loses money, but they spend on the team. One time they didn't and it bit them was missing Bevo and falling back to Ninnis but that was some time ago and I can understand how the club felt they were being squeezed out in those negotiations - people thought they still had Groves money when they didn't really.

Reply #338734 | Report this post

bretts the man  
Years ago

Fair points Isaac re defending players and all for keeping DJ but why add Weigh to the mix if need to strengthen D and why get a 5ft point guard who can't defend .
If have a weakness then strengthen it.
I also feel for SOS apart from Beveridge stuff up they picked a coach who looked the goods and seemed to supported coach spending money on players just that coach etc picked wrong players and obviously now wrong coach.
Putting Grantham into her role on surface was a positive move just need magic wand to get results

Reply #338745 | Report this post

Years ago

That point guard had 20+/5/7 or whatever it was Sunday night and is doing pretty well generally. He was added in conjunction with Crosswell, Herbert and Creek. How many 20+ PPG lockdown defenders are there in NBL price ranges? Maybe Jackson in NZ. Lisch was already taken. I'm just happy we have a guy we don't have to sack mid-season.

Weigh is a different story. I think Simpson (or Williamson before him) is/was meant to be the hustler to offset the games of Ballinger and Johnson. I don't mind Weigh as a pick-up as he's yet to reach his ceiling and hopefully he can still do that. We'd had Holmes for a few years with W-L decline and he was the guy out of contract. And he's not really a SF. Were we any better defensively with Holmes (who can defend)? Not really.

Maybe we would've been better putting Holmes on the bench and spending import money on a SF, but who knows.

Of the available Australian SFs, who should we have taken instead? Bose is known for his offence. Rush? Keep Hill? He's a bit of an x-factor, but can you remember anyone on Hoops complimenting his D? Most other guys were contracted.

Come to think of it, are there even impact import SFs in the league this year? Warren has been pretty poor for Cairns outside of 1-2 games. Dorsey hasn't been great though I would've gone for him in the off-season.

Reply #338753 | Report this post

36ers solja  
Years ago

Seems strange that everyone is on weigh's back when Brad Hill couldnt get his game going for how long?
Ah thats right, daddy looked after him and told everyone he had 3 years. Get off weighs back

Reply #338759 | Report this post

Years ago

Gratham thinks there is nothing wrong with the players the Sixers have. That may be part of the problem. Stick to being the boss and not get involved in player issues.

Reply #338761 | Report this post

Years ago

36ers solja I had noticed the same thing, but I wanted Hill gone so couldnt really comment lol

Reply #338763 | Report this post

Years ago

I think we (all Adelaide fans) need to lower our expectations. We have the youngest starting 5 in the league and they have only played together for a handful of games.

Look at the age of some of our players;

Warren - 23
Weigh – 24
DJ – 23
Creek – 19
Simpson – 24

That's a core 5 players right there with the oldest only being 24. Given that you supposedly peak at around 26, if we can keep this core together we should be great in a couple of years?

Look at the AFL for example, when they rebuild it takes a number of years before they are challenging for spots in playoffs and they tend to peak when their core group is around the 26 age bracket.

I think Clarke is heading in the right direction personnel wise but is he a game night coach? Hard to say at this stage as you don’t know what his plan is but I think he should be given another year to at least see if the fruits of his labour can come to fruition?!

Compare the youth we have above to that of most other teams and in a couple of years when players like Redhage, Martin, Worthington etc are declining in the end of their careers our boys should be peaking, what other team has core youth like we have playing together now ready for some success in a couple of years? Other teams may recruit good young players but our group (if we can keep them together) should still have the advantage of having played together for a couple of years.....

Reply #338780 | Report this post

Years ago

well bretts the man, sounds like you should be coaching the team..........NOT

Reply #338799 | Report this post

bretts the man  
Years ago

Hey bolter don't know where you bolted from mate but where was I doing anything but giving my opinion and not in a grandstanding manner. and wasn't even directly criticising coach but just like many showing my concerns about our total lack of any sort of defensive pressure as scores clearly indicate.
My point with Warren although a great shot maybe with our young team lacking in defensive skills which Clarke would have been aware of that a experienced import PG -SG would have been advantaged .
In last Qtr and OT Warren did know what to do with Crosswell carrying ball and having brain fades.
Yes I am aware we have not been good in picking them over last few years.

Reply #338829 | Report this post

Years ago

Book ure holiday!!! Still got early bird specials!!! Leave weigh alone!!!

Reply #338950 | Report this post


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