MACDUB
Years ago

are the 36ers full of overrated role players?

Theres no doubt in my mind that Clarke does not have what it takes to be a professional coach.

But, in trying to assess what has gone wrong for the Sixers this year (apart from some bad luck through injuries to Crosswell, Ballinger and Williamson), I noticed that there are a lot of 36ers players who haven't lived up to the hype or simply they are not as good as what everyone made them out to be.

IMO some players in the team are extremely overrated.
There appears to be a lot of role players out there.

IMHO, there seems to be a lot of indians and not enough chiefs.

Herbert: A role player really. Haven't seen him shoot the ball that well.

Weigh: The Wildcats system helped him bigtime. I think a lot of people rated this guy as a legit scoring threat, but that was probably due to the quality of teammates he was with at Perth.

Ng: Best shooter in the league huh? Well, I don't know how he can be the leagues best shooter when in no way can he successfully create his own shot. I know of many players that can nail catch and shot 3's and play BETTER defence than what he does.

Creek: Has been really good. I don't think he is overrated. But I do think he is merely a role player. Wouldn't get many minutes on a team like NZ, Perth or Melb.

Crosswell: Once again, merely a role player. Theres a lot of PGS out there in the league that are better than him.

Helliwell: Don't need to say anymore.


At the end of the day, its apparent the 36ers are full of role players.
Even Warren and Simpson don't appear to look comfortable as natural scorers.

How many of these guys would get runs at other teams? Seriously?

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Beantown  
Years ago

Agree with you about the roster. It hasn't lived up to expectations. As I stated in another thread tonight, the only players I think are 'must keep' are DJ, Simpson and Creek, in that order. Weigh and Crosswell will stay as they are signed for next season. I'm okay with that, but the Sixers badly need a star guard who can shoot and play D and another guard who can run the offence for 30 mins a game. They also need a backup big at the level of a Petrie, who they can put on the court for significant minutes without putting them in a 10 point hole!

Reply #346516 | Report this post


Skud  
Years ago

How many of them are simply the results of a bad coaching setup? Hom

Holmes was sacked after Clark couldnt coach him..Look at his numbers this season!!!! Bruce is the same

Ng doesnt have ANY visible plays designed for him..WTF NOT
Weigh would have benefited from the Wildcats team sure..but he is a much better player than what we are seeing this season.
Creek starts playing well and then sits on the bench for the rest of the game.
Herbert under Ninnis turned himself from a bench player into a genuine starter, under Clark he has returned to a bench player.

Once again the ONLY problem this team has is a Coach who doesnt know how to get the best from his team. Who doesnt know how to motivate the team and who doesnt know how to coach a team.

Reply #346522 | Report this post


tropical booz  
Years ago

This topic is boring - get a real coach!!

Weigh is a keeper - starter on a c/ship side 2 seasons ago - has great size.
DJ - yep.
Creek - off the bench
Balls - get him fit

Imports - start again but if Clarke picks em forget it!

The rest is ABA.

Reply #346537 | Report this post


tropical booz  
Years ago

BTW with ubaka now on the market why not grab him & see if he can help.

Cmon Marty what u got?

Reply #346540 | Report this post


Really  
Years ago

Get rid of Balls as your franchise player. He's yourMVp on Losing teams

Reply #346545 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

They are all roll players/ABA level Except for:
Weigh (Solid 3 if we have the right tools around him) DJ (Gun and a 10 year p[layerCreek - off the bench
Simpson (Best import we have had in a few seasons and is a keeper as imports that hustle like him are hard to find)

The big problem is we have 7/8 role players instead of having 5/6 A/B+ graders we have alot of C graders
which leaves us exposed as we just aren't deep engouh.

C graders: NG, Croswell (used to be a B) Herbert
D graders: Helliwell etc

Reply #346551 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Warren, one of the leading scorers in the SEC not a natural scorer? Or a role player/ABA level? Please.

Reply #346560 | Report this post


Fred  
Years ago

Well I can see many tired players and a coach who keeps saying he is learning? He sounds like a worn record in scartch mode. If he is back next season they might as well shut up shop and play tiddly winks.
But maybe if they had a better fitness coach they might be able to play out a complete game instead of looking tired and sore at the end of the game. Comparison after watching opposition teams walking off the court not looking as bad.
What happened? At a party the other night talking with a few basketball 36er followers it seemed to have gone down hill quicker about 1/2 way through last season in about jan/feb.
They were not much cop before that but hey it went down hill.
I wonder if the owners really understand

Reply #346564 | Report this post


Squid  
Years ago

Remove Balinger.

Reply #346579 | Report this post


Squid  
Years ago

And I meant Ballinger!

Reply #346580 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Agreed, no way Ballinger is in Adelaide next season unless he is paid peanuts. Thats where the rebuilding begins. Next move, Clarke shown the door.

Reply #346589 | Report this post


Squid  
Years ago

On what basis could Clarke possibly keep his job? His record with us is disgusting. I fear that many season ticket holders were prepared to give it one more season, but after what we have seen this season, well I reckon you can guess what I am thinking. I for one will not be renewing at this time.

Reply #346592 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Most teams have their role players or those under their best. Ideally, we'd have Simpson, DJ, Ballinger and Warren all as key players. Weigh underperforming more than being a role player. Herbert, Ng and Helliwell would've always been intended as role players, same with Crosswell. Creek is the young project.

Reply #346614 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

I think that because we are doing so badly people want to check the personnel and down play their ability however when you compare our team with other teams (ill do it with the top 4) we have just as many role players and star players as other teams.

Perth
Starters
Knight - Exceptional role player
Redhage - Star
Tovey - Role player
Lisc - Star
Martin - Star

Perth = 3.5 stars. Nevil was a star at the tigers but due to not as many minutes and how he is being used there he is a role player for them

NZ
Starters
Wilkinson - Star
Vukona - Exceptional role player
Abercrombie - Star
Corletto - Role player
Jackson - Star

NZ = 3.5 stars. CJ is obviously a great player but is getting limited minutes and is getting older.

Townsville
Starters
Schenscher - Star
Mims - Sorry I don't rate him highly so i would say role player
Holmes - Having a great season but is still a role player and his figures will start going down with Schenscher getting more minutes.
Crawford - Star
Gill - Star

Townsville 3-3.5 stars

Cairns
Starters
Crosswhite - I don't think we can say he is a star of the league. Exceptional role player
Loughton - Was a star last season so I will say he still is.
Warren - Star (during his good games at least)
hill - Role Player
Wilson - Star

Cairns = 3.5 stars

Adelaide
Starters
Johnson - Star
Simpson - Star
Weight - Role player/Exceptional role player (well should be)
Warren - Star
Ng - Role Player

Adelaide = 3-3.5 Stars

Our bench has some talented players as well, if we had Ballinger even more so. It is not the players it is the coach who can't get the best (or anything for that matter) out of the team.

Reply #346625 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

KJ, DJ had one rebound last game, not Clarke. Previously he's done well. Share the responsibility. You can't put it all on either side.

In that NZ/excuses thread, there were loads of Sixers fans coming up with their explanations, but the eyewitness NZ account said that Adelaide players weren't as hungry for the ball, that Bruton was throwing himself after it more than we were, that Clarke tried to fire them up. We lost our captain and vice-captain in one weekend which means that suddenly we have a lot less in terms of on court leadership.

Reply #346627 | Report this post


mystro  
Years ago

what would McPeake do in this situation?

Reply #346633 | Report this post


Mutley  
Years ago

Mystro,

He'd probably burst into the locker room and fire Diamon Simpson.

Reply #346639 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

He would've shown Chris Warren the door by now that's for sure.

Reply #346641 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It's not the players, it's your joke of a coach, you guys are embarrassing the sport of basketball in Australia.

Reply #346657 | Report this post


Beantown  
Years ago

King James, that's a useful comparison of the teams. I would say that Chris Warren is NOT a star right now though. Don't get me wrong I LIKE Warren's shooting, but he has to do more AS A POINT GUARD for our team and it doesn't really look like he is up to it just yet in his career.

So the way I see it, we have 2 stars to the other top four team's 3.5. On top of that we are also short another star player in Ballinger and a good role player in Crosswell whose PG skills would really help cover for Warren's deficiencies.

Once again, I think Clarke has work to do to improve as a coach, but I think a lot of coaches would have struggled to get this team to be successful this season given the injuries and lack of talent.

Reply #346684 | Report this post


tyrantT  
Years ago

Prefer a team of really young undeveloped players then at least when we win, its an upset.

Weigh isnt great, DJ and Creek have too much weight placed on their shoulders, and Herbert isnt coached well. He played under Mark Leader with the Supercats and he led then, but seems the coaching aint great for him.

Helliwell is a lost cause. Id like to know what his role was for the year cos I havent seen it yet. Does he defend anything?

Darren Ng is seriously hack atm. Cant get open, is heavily defended and when they double team him, our other guy is deep in back court. How do we score from brett maher's signature?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Herbert can shoot the ball, no D.
Ng May be able to shoot but no D and always injured.
DJ, is a project and if you are already relying on him as the go to man, crazy.
Creek goo long term prospect.
Imports, meh,
Helliwell, what were they thinking.
Weigh, possibly a good player, and one of those players that may have all the potential in the world yet fails to ever deleiver.
Ballinger may need more time to recover from the badly mis managed diagnosis of his ankle problems. Still a keeper.
Crossie plays hard every game.
Holmes the stupidest decision ever to let him go. Clearly he can play and for what ever reason for the last few years his playing time has been limited and output down. Put that down to Marty.

Reply #346763 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Squid this hatered of Ballinger is it because he did not sign your teddybear or your blanket?. As far as Kobe goes take note of players like Holmes and Bruce who have all moved on to other teams and are having a great year under a new coach . Just to add fuel to your BBQ when was the last time Ballinger was played in his right position? answer when he played for PHIL or the HAWKS under JOYCE .

Reply #346771 | Report this post


Squid  
Years ago

Anon, not sure what you are on or should be on, but this is not hatred of Ballinger. It is merely my personal opinion. What success have we had since Ballinger has been with us? Is the man actually capable of playing any sort of defence? Is he able to every now and again grab a defensive rebound? Quite clearly the answer right now is no, but the guy for the last 2 seasons has done virtually nothing. So what would we lose by him not being there? In fact it would free up some cash and points, which we desperately need.

Reply #346794 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

SQUIDthe guy has won 5 thats right 5 mvp been in the top 5 players in the league. sorry if l am going to fast for you l will repeat what l said 5 mvp in the top 5 players league mvp.has given all to his clubs everywhere he has played so maybe guys who sit and play wii games should study facts the guy has not been played in his POSITION DO YOU UNDERSTAND POSITION HE HAS HAD TO FILL IN BECAUSE OF POOR CHOICES .same way guys like Jacob Brad Bruce looked out of place then when plaaed in the right POSITION they star .think about dont just spill crap for the sake of reading your own comments.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

but the guy for the last 2 seasons has done virtually nothing.


Um yeah wasn't Ballinger 36ers team MVP last season and also finished in the Top 5 in league MVP voting?

The guy has one injury riddled season in which he was never healthy and only able to play a handful of games and punks are trying to throw him under the bus.

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PeterJohn  
Years ago

anon and Anonymous - there was discussion of whether 36ers would be better off without Ballinger last season. General thrust was to keep him, in spite of his defensive liabilities, as the 36ers were lost without his scoring (we tended to have 2 main scorers per game last year and not much else).

This season, the 36ers have not had his scoring and have managed to post good scores - until Crosswell went down. The glaring problem has been defence - as it was last year.

In a team where he has high calibre defenders around him, Ballinger's defensive shortcomings might be an acceptable liability. In the 36ers, there are no lockdown defenders. There is also no real defensive system but that's another issue.

Given the upside for the younger players in the group (Johnson, Creek, Simpson, Warren, Weigh), there is a reasonable argument that Ballinger's share of the cap would be better put to getting one or more players who bring defensive toughness without being a heavy scorer. I happen to side with that argument but, in saying so, my view might change if Ballinger is not being paid as much as he has been this year and last.

Reply #346858 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Anon #346763 - what's Holmes' career average points per game? At teh 36ers, under any coach, he has never been a high scorer. At games, I used to cross my fingers every time he took a shot - and that was before he went to the Dragons. He has always been a star rebounder and a reasonable defender.

In terms of how he's gone this season, it may be down to a change in how he's coached, but his history suggests that's about more than just Clarke's coaching and use of him.

The other possibility is that he's just having the sort of breakout season Andrew Svaldenis had at the Devils (I think - correct me If I'm wrong?) before the 36ers recruited him and he went back to being a bench player. One swallow not making summer and all of that.

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Mutley  
Years ago

I think with Ballinger, he's a bit of a Patrick Ewing. As good as he is, there is no evidence that his presence will lead to team success. The only team Ballinger has been on that has won anything was Michigan State, and he hardly played. He has unquestionably been our best player in his time here, as he should be when commanding the highest salary and a maximum points rating. Likewise, there is no question that his tenure has coincided with the lowest ever period of our club's history.

Respectfully, it is time to move on.

Reply #346860 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think with Ballinger, he's a bit of a Patrick Ewing. As good as he is, there is no evidence that his presence will lead to team success.


Ballinger was the second leading scorer and averaged 17ppg @ 50% and 7rpg on Wollongong's 2005 Grand Final team. Sure he hasn't won a championship yet but he also hasn't been back to a GF series since coming to Adelaide.

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Beantown  
Years ago

Good points Peter. I too remember Svaldenis. Never performed for us the way he did for Hobart.

Holmes, while an excellent rebounder and decent defender, is simply limited by his size and speed and will never be the answer for a team wanting to compete for a title. I'm happy he is doing well for the Crocs, but I'm also happy Adelaide has moved on.

Spot on with Balls too. He's a great shooter, but he can't play centre and he hasn't been able to cover mobile bigs like Wilkinson, Worthington and Redhage. Sure he was great back in 2005, but that is nearly seven years ago! I think he could play a valuable role as the primary backup big next season if he is fully fit and can play for less, but I wouldn't start him over either DJ or Simpson anymore.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Beantown,

Ballinger was great last season.

Reply #346899 | Report this post


Squid  
Years ago

My criticism of Ballinger may well be a cry for help from a very disillusioned supporter and if I have been too harsh on him I apologise. But hell it is so so hard seeing us smashed week after week.

Reply #346946 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

would have had a better year if not for his injury but then as forest gump said shit happens.
we are all disillusioned with the results but then again 2 players down does not do our cause any good

Reply #346992 | Report this post


Beantown  
Years ago

I disagree, Ballinger was not 'great' last season. He shot well from inside the arc once again, but he was consistently torched defensively by opposition bigs like Wilkinson, etc (see above for others). If he was great, he would have been getting the better of the opposition's best big most weeks and leading us to more wins.

If I ahd a choice between last years starting bigs in Balls and Holmes and this years DJ and Simpson, I would go with the latter every time.

Reply #346997 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Reply #347025 | Report this post




 

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