Are you going to fund it?

Football is flourishing in Australia right now. Clive Palmer might be a very smart business man but all he is doing is trying to stir up controversy to give reasoning behind the introduction of his new business, "Football Australia." The bottom line is that the crowds in the A-League are at an all time high as are ratings on Fox Sports. The quality of the domestic league is also improving and on the up. In addition, on the international stage Australia is set to regain its number 1 world ranking in Asia when the next world rankings come out (pretty sure it's next week). Not to mention over 24 thousand people attended Aami Park on a rainy week night in Melbourne last night to watch the Socceroos in what was a match which the Socceroos had nothing to gain.

To say that Australian football is at its weakest in years is nothing but a fallacy.

"Football is flourishing in Australia right now."
Not true, since the wasted $46m that was the publicly funded World Cup bid, the general public has lost interest in this sport.

"Clive Palmer might be a very smart business man but all he is doing is trying to stir up controversy to give reasoning behind the introduction of his new business, "Football Australia.""
Probably right. But another reason why people like Clive shouldn't own sporting teams.

"The bottom line is that the crowds in the A-League are at an all time high as are ratings on Fox Sports."
Where are your numbers? My numbers show different.

"The quality of the domestic league is also improving and on the up."
Subjective but not everyone agrees with that.

"In addition, on the international stage Australia is set to regain its number 1 world ranking in Asia when the next world rankings come out (pretty sure it's next week)."
LOL Number 1 world ranking, in Asia. But still in the 30-40 bracket in the actual world ranking.

"Not to mention over 24 thousand people attended Aami Park on a rainy week night in Melbourne last night to watch the Socceroos in what was a match which the Socceroos had nothing to gain."
More proof the sport has decreased, with the government funding, Westfield money and wait for it, massive corporate and media support thanks to Lowry, 24,000 is a lot less then previous internationals.

"To say that Australian football is at its weakest in years is nothing but a fallacy."
Anyone can say anything, when not showing some form of evidence. Certainly not at its weakest, but it has some pretty major issues to fact in the coming months.

A few questions/facts for you Anon:

How do you justify the sport receiving another $8million from the government recently to keep the A League alive if the sport is booming as you claim?

More government money for a sport that the general public is losing interest in. I can only imagine what other sports are saying now that Clive has stated publicly what many already knew. Soccer is alive in Australia because the Labor Federal Government funds it. End of story.

If only other international sports, with better world rankings could get some of the money that this government throws at Lowry and his backyard organisation.

This is just the tip, Soccer has more pain to go yet.

Soccer has been sliding for some time now. It's ratings look improved this year but take away the early Victory games withe Kewell factor and they are mediocre. Crowds continue to fall and soccer is on the precipice of what basketball went through a few years back.

Btw, I don't think soccer is that much a rival code. If basketball properly harnesses the grass roots of it's own sport then it can worry about competing for other sports fans.

352500

"Not true, since the wasted $46m that was the publicly funded World Cup bid, the general public has lost interest in this sport."
How can you say that the general public has lost interest when crowds are up on last year, as well as ratings are up on last year. What you've said doesn't match the stats.

"Where are your numbers? My numbers show different."
Both Andy Harper and Simon Hill on Fox Sports FC have said multiple times on the record that A-League ratings are at an all time high. According to the link below, A-League TV ratings are up 62 percent on last season.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/11/25/a-leagues-tv-picture-remains-fuzzy/

"Subjective but not everyone agrees with that."
I'd love to hear your opinion on the standard of the league. It's a lot better league than what it was even going back to just last season. The overall quality of the matches are improved, there are more players receiving international call ups which reflect the standard of the league. I agree with you that this is debatable but I guess at the end of the day this is a debate about the state of the popularity of the sport to the general public as a whole and not necessarily a quality debate. Nonetheless, you would think that if the quality were poorer, ratings and crowds would be down.

"LOL Number 1 world ranking, in Asia. But still in the 30-40 bracket in the actual world ranking."
Australia are currently ranked 22nd in the world in football. FIFA has around 200 ranked international teams. The FIBA website has Australia ranked 9th in the world but only 80 teams are ranked according to the FIBA website. Change both rankings to percentages and the rankings are pretty even. Australian football has a slight edge based on the maths I did (Australian football team ahead of 89% of ranked FIFA teams as opposed to the Boomers being ranked ahead of 88.75% of ranked FIBA teams.

"More proof the sport has decreased, with the government funding, Westfield money and wait for it, massive corporate and media support thanks to Lowry, 24,000 is a lot less then previous internationals."
How is that proof the sport has decreased? Saudi Arabia are a minnow team. They are not an Argentina who can draw 80 thousand plus at the MCG. The game was held at Aami Park, it only seats 30 thousand anyway. On a rainy night, against a minnow team, on a weeknight (kickoff at 830 didn't help either), and they still managed 24 thousand people in attendance. That's an achievement, definitely not proof that the sport is decreasing. Last year in a friendly against New Zealand at Adelaide Oval, around 20 thousand people showed up. Adelaide Oval and Aami Park have around the same attendance capacity. So to say that 24k is a lot less than previous internationals is true if you compare it to the games they played a few years ago against ELITE Argentina and Greece (who although aren't an elite team, Melbourne is full of them) so of course they would draw a big crowd in that respect!

How do you justify the sport receiving another $8million from the government recently to keep the A League alive if the sport is booming as you claim?
I'm not saying it's booming. I'm saying that it's on the up and improving. I don't know where the 8 million is exactly going so I can't comment on that matter but it wouldn't surprise me to see that money to go setting up a new team in Western Sydney.

"Soccer is alive in Australia because the Labor Federal Government funds it. End of story."
No, soccer is alive in Australia because Frank Lowy had enough brains to recognize that football is the biggest sport in the world and that there is a massive market in Australia for it. If Basketball had the same potential as football, how come no reputable businessman with lots of $$$ has invested in the sport?

352509

"Crowds continue to fall and soccer is on the precipice of what basketball went through a few years back."
That's incorrect I'm afraid. Of the 10 teams in the A-League, 8 of the clubs have increased average crowds.

HO

"A-league is losing money and crowds are not good. 11000 average this year down from a high of 15000 per game a number of years back. In this, the Kewell/Emerton factor has not really helped. While average crowds are up on last year, removing Townsville accounts for most of that."
Well yes, I agree with you that the A-League is losing money. At the same time, it is still in its infancy and being established. The amount of companies who make a profit from the early stages is minimal. Money is being pumped into the league because it needs to be developed properly. Profits will come eventually, but right now patience is required and the businessman of the FFA understand this. How has the Kewell and Emerton factor not helped? Melbourne Victory home crowds are up an average of 6 thousand per game and Sydney's home crowds have gone up 4 thousand per game (when comparing to last season). As I said earlier, 8 of the 10 clubs have increased crowd numbers this year, hence removing Townsville from the league doesn't answer why average crowds are up.

"We are not producing the superstars we were. Cahill, Kewell, Viduka, etc were all names that could have played for almost any EPL or European club. Even the tortured Bosnich was a superstar before his issues. (Australian Basketball went through a similar stage as well in the early part of last decade)."
This part I tend to agree with. Players like Kewell, Viduka etc don't come of trees and although the international ranking is still relatively high, the amount of youth players aren't coming through. There are still some good youth prospects coming through although I don't think that they have the class of a Kewell or a Cahill. However, I would say that there are more "intermediate quality" youngsters coming through. Youth systems that Adelaide United and the Central Coast Mariners are currently implementing and beginning to develop are going to help the next crop of youngsters make it overseas. But yes, as of right now, this is a pressing concern and definitely needs to be addressed (which I believe it is).

"The games local participants remain disengaged with the elite game in this country - not to the extent that basketball does, but with massive participation the logic is that A-league venues should be full."
Are you sure that they're disengaged with the elite game? Given that if you probably looked at the demographics of the kids who play football, a large number come from areas that are poor. Their families simply can't afford to pay for a ticket. Just taking an example, look at Elizabeth in SA. The amount of football clubs there is huge, I can't think of around 15-20 just off the top of my head, all with junior setups. Problem is that the families of the junior kids who play can't afford to go to the games to see Adelaide United. I do think that there needs to be more $$$ invested to link the A-League with grassroots but it is far from what happens with basketball and the juniors there (which imo is an absolute farce).

A-League has hit a bad patch for sure. But it's headed back up. The loss of North Queensland Fury and Gold Coast United - oh, you mean the teams that had close to no support at all? It's called getting rid of the dead-wood. Good. I'm glad they're gone. Evolution at its finest.

Gold Coast will be replaced by Western Sydney within the year. The A-League will be strengthened and more than likely better than ever.

A second derby in the A-League? Not to mention a new rivalry. The melbourne derby games average 30,000+ people a game. The Grand Final (Brisbane vs. Central Coast) last season registered an attendance of over 50,000 (sold out).

What was the highest attendance this season/ last season for an NBL game?

When it comes down to it. Funding/ investment will be prioritised by support. Similar to the principle of majority rules. The sport(s) with more support will always get more attention/ more investment. NBL doesn't have that. My guess is. It never will and for good reason. It's shit.

So far, the only thing you guys supporting the NBL have managed to prove is that the A-League hasn't had a good season compared to it's previous seasons in some areas - kind of. On a technicality. So far the only thing you've established is that the -League could've had a better season in terms of support.

I'm still waiting for you guys to explain why the NBL should be given the funding instead of the A-League.

If this were an actual debate, you'd be losing. Because all you've done is present some rebuttal without supporting your own case. Start the argument where it should start. Rather than saying "The A-League doesn't deserve the money because of .... (fill in the blank)." Say; "The NBL deserves the money instead of the A-League because .... (fill in the blank)" Only problem is you can't really start the argument. Because there is no reason for the NBL to receive the funding instead of the A-League.

The amount of people who support Basketball in this debate is the same amount of people who rock up to NBL games. No one.