Surprise
Years ago

Five rounds of Winter season schedule up

Congrats BSA
First 5 rounds are up for the new season, good to see !
Only one problem i see for me anyway, there could be some other clubs and parents in the same boat
I have 2 kids playing friday nights unfortunately one of them in 16 girls and it seems in the first 5 games in the away games they will not be playing at the same places :(
I know with woodville and south not having teams would now probably make it impossible to schedule which is a bummer as it makes for a goodnight out when all teams are at the same venue.
Sorry don't mean to have a whinge but it would be nice if that could continue, but i think unfortunately not

Topic #27837 | Report this topic


Annon  
Years ago

Crap planning by BSA

Reply #354983 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

not all div 1 teams together is a joke. It seems u12 girls and u16 girls are at the same place whilst all other div 1 teams (boys and girls) at another place. Watch more kids drop out now - well done Basketball SA on your incompetency.

Haven't had a look on whether it affects just the smaller clubs but it would not surprise me.

Reply #354987 | Report this post


Annon  
Years ago

Football all season comes out at once
Netball does the same
Baseball does the same
Basketball offers 5 weeks of crap

No wonder people leave the sport

Reply #354989 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agree with the above comments. They have made this decision with out a thought to how it would affect many, many families, your kids strive to be good enough to be in the div 1 teams, only to get them split up. People will walk, it costs more financially and when you are dealing with younger Children how do you tell your kids why you have to chose one or the other to watch because of the ineffective way Basketball SA made the draw. If you have gone out to help coach a different age group from your Child, you now cant watch you own kid at all as now you are committed to another place and team, not knowing this incompetence was coming. We cant get any further apart venues from each other if we tried. there is no way to watch even part of the second game. I would sooner have the byes than this.

Reply #354993 | Report this post


Charon  
Years ago

WHat if you have a kid in div 1 and another in div 2?

Will they all just up and quit?

Not saying that having 8 team divisions i not a pain, but thewre are more important things than home and away in the programming.

Reply #354997 | Report this post


?  
Years ago

What a pathetic whinge - see the bigger picture....

Reply #355002 | Report this post


Admin  
Years ago

Why BSA, WHYYYYYY???? do you make it hard for us to build the game, build the competition that you oversee and increase your revenue, develop more talent for the game you oversee.... Help me, help you!

Reply #355004 | Report this post


can't believe it  
Years ago

I officially give up. This madness has me defeated.I'm in readiness for Paul to get on to this thread anonymously and justify how this junior program is best for basketball. I'm here to say now he does NOT HAVE A CLUE.
To break up the age groups and scatter them across the stadiums gives my kids NO CHANCE for them to watch the games above them and aspire to that level.
Slowly I watch this sport decimated by poor decision making and lack of due care.
Are you really trying to destroy the sport at junior level and drive parents to despair?
Well done on that point BSA .Well done

Reply #355009 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a div 1 coach I would have no issue letting sturt or Forrestville or whoever it maybe bring in a second team into Div 1 to rid the competition of byes, ten teams per division, or if the clubs like south and mavs can't put teams in div 1 then BSA have to look at booting them out of the district competition and only allowing them to play div 2 in all grades including seniors

Reply #355010 | Report this post


Charon  
Years ago

can't believe it,

again, my kid plays div 2. does that mean that they should quit becaue they never get to see the div 1 tam play?

bigger picture;

even competition.
improved umpiring
earlier and full schedule production
open and transparent grading

All far more important than all div 1 teams playing home and away together.

Reply #355021 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There's a few upset parents at Centrals at the moment. The wave of country kids (and those jumping clubs) promised Div 1 spots has arrived and "local" kids are getting bumped down. Then, next season Centrals expect them to play again?

Reply #355023 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Can someone please point out where to find the schedule for the first five weeks? I must be looking in the wrong spot because all I can find is the summer season. Thanks.

Reply #355026 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

it is on sportingpulse - updated late yesterday moses

Reply #355031 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

refresh your link maybe ?

Reply #355032 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a div1 coach i would love to see the div2 team play so as to compare players and easily make a decision who should be in the top team,right now it is impossible!

Reply #355055 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

everyone complaining, no one with a solution.

It is absolutely impossible for BSA to solve all of the above.

Reply #355058 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

I'm just a crazy old man that clearly doesn't know his way around the interweb. Can somebody send me a link please?

Reply #355064 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-3-0-0-0&a=COMPS

Reply #355065 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Doubt Paul would post on here anonymously. Might be wrong and I know he has countless critics, but always struck me as the "rise above" type.

Reply #355066 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

I would like to see the draw go for the full season issued at the start of the season as 5 games at a time provides uncertainty for players and parents as well as coaches. Surely, "it's not that hard" The old chestnut of scheduling teams and court availability crops up. Well, it's simple. When clubs nominate a team, they nominate a home court. Then, it is up to the club to ensure they have enough home courts for their teams.

For example, a club can host up to 4 games per court per night. Therefore, with a 50% home rate, each home court is worth 8 Club teams. Excluding Thursday and Saturday teams, that means a two court stadium can be home to 16 Friday Night Teams. So let's say that Club expands and gets 18 teams that play on a Friday night but only has two courts, then it is up to them to organise a suitable home court to support those two teams. BSA have one less headache.

That happens in any other sport.

In reference to other posts above, team selection is always a tricky issue and should be transparent. Placing players in divisions higher than their skill levels to develop them for next season is fine if the player responds, but sometimes "next season never comes". Now is the time for inter-club games to test the team selections and ensure that players are placed appropriately for the long term benefit of the club. Selection procedures that are opaque always lead to unnecessary friction.

Reply #355069 | Report this post


Oberon 38  
Years ago

In 9 years of junior basketball i have never had the luxury of watching both my children playing at the same venue. If we are realy lucky we might fluke the same venue 1 or 2 times a year, usually one at 6 and the other at 9.
I am sure we are not the only family in this position.
So i dont really understand the negative comments about quitting/being driven out, or leaving the sport.
I am however looking forward to next season when my eldest will be in youth league, played on a different night, so i can see them both play.


Reply #355070 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Charon, when you have to go over 100km in two different directions you may see it different, its hard enough to do as it is... but hey your BIGGER picture is a LOT different than mine.

I to had one div 1, and a div 2 child as well at one stage. It was very hard to get them to their games, and harder not to watch one or the other each week. but I excepted that is how it is when you are not at the top of your game. With HARD work they have both made div 1 now.. Thought there should be a pay off for achieving the top level, hence why you aim to get there.
I am traveling in the first place, not because I have a lots of time on my hands, or money to waste, but because my kids show lots of talent in this sport, but basketball SA is making it much harder now. This is the basketball end they should be looking after and helping,.. the ones trying to,.. or actually making it to the top level.
I probably wouldn't care either if I just lived a few minutes up the road from the Stadium, as you may do. or had one kids that was good at this.
Some of us parents have to make much greater sacrifices than others, personally and financially just to get our kids to the game each week.
Until now I have never whined about it, but I knew where we had to aim to make our life in this sport easier, now its got new programming and I am back to where we started.

Or I guess just go choose another sport that cares about families, as you no doubt would be thinking, as you play a violin for me.(NOT) lol ,..because this is not your problem blah blah blah..enough said
Thats why some may have to leave Charon. Or one child may unfairly have to drop out.

Reply #355076 | Report this post


driving  
Years ago

the only reason there is 5 games is to allow for teams to move up and down in div2 and below and then the full schedule is released, Paul doesnt go to work in the morning and try to make the draw unfair.

Reply #355085 | Report this post


Charon  
Years ago

anon#355076,

Why should Div 1 kids get presedent over Div 2 kids if we are looking at retention? Losing either kid is bad. A div 2 kid who is bottom age is just as likely to be a high level player as a top age div 1 kid who is a bench player.

There would be an equal number of families with a kid in both divisions as those who only have div 1 kids. Therefore it should not be the over riding factor in determining schedule.

That is not to say that 8 team comps are ideal. I would rathr see the best div 2 team take the place of a div 1 club who doesn't nominate and therefore enable home and away.

Reply #355092 | Report this post


can't believe it  
Years ago

charon

some stability and continuance is all we require.

Its already a given that one child in Div 1 and the other one in Div 2 is difficult. We have come to live with that difficult scenario and as 5076 has eloquently stated its another inducement to put the work into that Div 2 sibling. Why now a complete change?

Without consultation and supposedly on a whim all before is no longer. Looking over this 5 week schedule across the grades no steadfast rule appears to have been applied. Its an absolute dog's breakfast.

Some good news. Sturt and Forestville appear the least inconvenienced. Only one of their away weeks is a mash-up.

Reply #355102 | Report this post


355076  
Years ago

I am just clarifying, that was well over 100kms one way, not there and back trip, that would be to easy.

Reply #355103 | Report this post


Charon  
Years ago

can't believe it,

First of all I am sure that Sturt at least will be inconvinienced for the remainder of the season, it will happen in most grade when those team not i the home and away system fall.

Why should it be an inducemetn to improve a child? If that is the case you are in junior sport for the wrong reason.

I don't disagree that the programming couldnt be improved. Just that home and away for div 1 is not the be all and end all.

That there is equal merit in having a mixed div 1/2 night as a home night and that;

standard of competition
earlier competition presentation of full fixtrures
open and transperant grading are more important

this is mainly due to all clubs not entering div 1 and/or div 2 teams. That is not somethig BSA can be responsible for.

You can kick a club of 30 teams out of div 1/2 just liike to wont be able to promote a Forestville or Sturt team, because people like you will complain.

So unfortunately we have a compettion where it is not full home and away in certain grades. But in the VIc system that is, and always has been the case and they ahve the largest participation rate in the country, and perhaps the world.

Reply #355104 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

so Charon BasketballSA should get up with the Vic's and do a home/away system? fully agreed - thats why they are successful and we are not,
basketballSA = useless and killing the sport in SA off - pull your heads in Basketball SA and for once consider the negative impact you are creating.

Reply #355117 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jack for someone who's been involved in the game for as long as you appear you really have no idea in regards to some topics.

As has been explained before the draw goes up for 5 weeks because players and families can't commit to a season. When a player decides two weeks into a season they're quitting or multiple do, then a team has to be pulled. In order to give clubs flexability the draw is done so clubs can change team numbers after 5 rounds.

Clubs don't run their 'home' stadium. Clubs don't manage or own them. BSA hire or lease venues. How is it the clubs job to get court space?

Reply #355119 | Report this post


Charon  
Years ago

NO Vics do not have home and away for div 1(championships grade) they have home and away for all divs without relevence to div 1.

And due to numbers and stadiums, they may not even be home and away.

Reply #355121 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Maybe a better problem to tackle is why are families or players unable to commit after 2 weeks into the winter season. What has changed in two weeks to drive them away?

Reply #355123 | Report this post


So Dissapointed  
Years ago

I love going to the basketball Friday nights and love to see the other age divisions supporting each other. It creates a fantastic atmosphere within the stadiums. The coaches can also look at who is coming up to the next age group. I think the system as it was was working well. Paul you are wrong to change this. I too have has kids in div 1 and div 2 and was ok with going from stadium to stadium but now after many extra one on one trainings I now have two kids in Div 1 and I think they deserve to be with all the other div 1 teams!

Why are these sort of decisions not put to a survey etc before the descision is made?

I cannot express my dissapointment enough!!

Reply #355124 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Charon have read you comments, and am just wondering, if you don't think your child improving their skills in Junior sport is good, Why then do we bother to take our Children to 2 trainings a week, if not to improve their skills confidence and the team strength over all, and maybe even their division, and if that is a bad thing, maybe competitive sport at this level is not for everyone...We could still play the game without the second practice, but most are endeavoring to improve, unless you, or in your case your child only aspires to div 2, and if that is the case, there is nothing at all wrong with that, but don't judge others for aspiring to more, that is how life is, we should all want to improve and better ourselves in all things in life, even a junior.. and wanting order and stability in the Junior basketball program competitions is only natural.

Reply #355132 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I see lots of complaints but no solutions.

Vic has a full promotion/relegation model. You're kidding yourself if you believe every week every Champ team from one club plays at the one venue.

No one has a solution.

Reply #355139 | Report this post


can't believe it  
Years ago

Anon 139

Didn't need a solution .

There was no problem

Could have been left as it has been for years.

Kidding ourselves?

There's the solution. LEAVE IT BE

Reply #355145 | Report this post


Really  
Years ago

Solution is scrap home and away casue it neverworks out because some clubs dont enter teams in all grades.

Go full promotion/relegation, cause its not like kids are moving into those clubs without teams like they thought it would.

Then have club home nights (div 1,2 or 3's), not home and away.

Reply #355146 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Anon 355119, Clubs need to be more accountable for themselves. Regardless of what the current system is, or not. People expect a home game at their club's recognised "home" court. They also expect to play at that stadium 50% of the time. It should be up to that Club to nominate an appropriate home court and make it available. Unfortunately, central control dictates that court on which the team plays and courts are allocated/assigned based on ensuring that certain stadiums are filled to capacity first to minimise overall court hire costs.

However, what I am saying is that Clubs just can't nominate teams and not provide suitable home courts for them to play on. I think you'll find in all other sports, the governing body makes the club nominate a home ground and a backup home ground.

Rather than a central, highly controlled system which is designed to maximise court usage on stadiums that are on long term hire, perhaps BSA just need to delegate game court hire to clubs to organise. That way, a Club knows that it needs to hire so many courts per game night. Perhaps it may be more efficient to organise this via a central body, but at the end of the day, people want certainty and people hate bias, perceived or otherwise.

As far as teams pulling out. That happens occasionally, but like other posters have said, the salient point is not that people haven't committed, it's WHY they haven't committed. You have got kids willing to play a month ago, now they think the club/sport is horrible and don't want to play. Why? That's the time when the JOG of that club goes into the room of mirrors for a good long look.

Reply #355149 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jack maybe it should but its not. Clubs are not involved in the process, BSA selects which venues a club calls 'home' and selects whats available. BSA run 6 of the venues themselves so why is it up to the clubs?

No clubs provide any venue. So are you saying North Adelaide can nominate Wayville as its home venue? Why not? Forestville haven't done anything to secure Wayville, pay for the cost of it or pay for the right to have a Canteen and bar in the building. Your logic makes no sense.

In other sports such as football, the club has a deal with the councils directly in regards to their 'home' venue. Basketball is different. You can't apply a different sports rules on basketball when the whole structure of the sports is completely different.

Parents juggle multiple commitments and multiple siblings. Most parents don't have the luxury to commit for 12 months at once anymore. Other factors contribute to the change of availability.

On top of that kids are kids and make impulse decisions.

One week a player may want to play basketball, then for no reason next week he may rather play footy.

Reply #355151 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They should have just left it, four of our under 16 div one girls have a sister in 18 1's now we won't be able to watch both games every week which sucks

Reply #355155 | Report this post


Really  
Years ago

Gotta say that Jack does have some points.

Its not like his idea and BSA's current process would need to change too much. Although they would need to fill current BSA venues.

It is more about dealing with the overflow from clubs like Forestville.

Consider Norwood. They have 3 courts at Mars and can therefore service 24 Friday night teams as a base of 3 courts x 4 slots x 2 home and away.

If they are above those 24 teams they need another court.

For Southern, they would have the potential for 32 teams for Friday nights. If they dont they might take the overload from Marion where South would have 16 maximum and the overflow can be sent to M/vale.

The issue would be if Forestville can service another 2 court stadium but there are other non full BSA venues such as Port Adelaide.

Maybe the answer is to bring all Saturady morning up the Friday nights and open more venues. Then turn Saturadys in domestic.

Reply #355156 | Report this post


like netball  
Years ago

WE SHOULD HAVE 1 MASSIVE STADIUM, LIKE THE ETSA PARK FOR NETBALL, COULD BE BASED IN CITY SO REASONABLE FOR EVERYONE , SO EVERYTEAM AND EVERYONE PLAYS AT THE SAME PLACE....... THEY DO THIS IN ALOT OF OTHER STATES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply #355158 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Jack, thanks for the link but ..... banging head against desk ..... I was really after the Under-10 schedule and it's the only one not listed.

Time for another Panadol. If anyone can help, would be appreciated.

Reply #355160 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

like netball they do this in no other state in no other sport.

It may suit some but that would require families from Morphett Vale, Gawler and Mt. Barker to travel into the city every week.

Clubs can not generate money through Canteens.

Worst idea.

Oh and Norwood don't have MARS. BSA hire it. How hard is it to understand how the system works.

Reply #355162 | Report this post


daz  
Years ago

There isnt an easy way to schedule all these games and personal attacks dont help.I think if you want to name someone ,you have to supply your name as well.This is junior sport,dont forget whos important here

Reply #355172 | Report this post


Red  
Years ago

where are you basketball sa? please give the community some feedback stop hiding!!

Reply #355188 | Report this post


JQ  
Years ago

Let's look at it from a different angle.

If the draw had stayed the same, the under 16 girls would be forced to have 2x bye rounds due to Woodville and South not having teams in division one.

As a parent I am disappointed that I may not always be able to see both of my children play. I am however happy to see that my youngest will now get a game every week. I am also pleased that my fees for the season will now include the same number of games as other junior players, where during summer it was not this way.

It is unreasonable to think that BSA should have to offer two byes to make up for other clubs not nominating teams. And no, i dont think that promoting extra teams from division two isn't the answer.

In saying that, I am not sure what the answer is. But I am happy with this draw set up, even if I am the only one.

Reply #355203 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Jack, you can sleep easy again. Found it - looks like it was only put up last night. Thanks for your help though.

Reply #355216 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Cool, Moses I was up all night with worry!

Reply #355217 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So we are trying to keep kids in the sport, and Jack says we should not give kids a game if we cannot find a court for them...

Reply #355227 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

227 WTF?

You are obviously not understanding something for some reason, or chose not to understand. At the moment BSA are the ones running around organising courts and Clubs are nominating teams. In other sports, a Club will nominate their home ground. For example, The Hahndorf Footy Club nominates Hahndorf Oval. The Footy Association inspects the oval and approves its use then schedules games there. But, let's just say that Hahndorf Oval just can't fit any more footy games on it. The Hahndorf Footy Club then seeks a second playing oval for the overflow. Simple.

What I am saying is that Clubs need to be accountable for nominating their home stadiums.

Reply #355262 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

everyone blames BSA what about these clubs that can't field teams at div 1 level. i respect that they have made the right call and maybe put their first team in div 2 or 3 - which is better for the players but it reflects the fact that some clubs are struggling to meet the benchmarks of basketball in SA.

Reply #355269 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jack but who runs the Hahndorf Oval? Who hires the Oval from the Council? The Football Club does.

Who runs Wayville Sports Centre? Who hires the Centre for District games? Basketball SA does.

That's the difference. Its a completely different structure of management. You can't just change Friday nights without understanding the bigger picture which is very different to Football.

Reply #355277 | Report this post


Showtime  
Years ago

dont think clubs were contacted over this.....

I have 2 girls affected

solution

Team 1 vs Team 2
Team 3 vs Team 4

Team 2 and 3 have not got teams in that grade, so team 4 will play team 1 at their home court(team 1's)ch should still be allocated for Div 1 game. This would work in the 2 round when team 1 plays away and team 4 plays home????
Not sure how many games in season but if anything like last year...it wasnt even rounds so really cant complain too much unless you cop the top 2 or 3 teams too many times and then stiff, same as last year.

Reply #355355 | Report this post


Showtime  
Years ago

Engrish wasnt that good

Team 2 and 3 have not got teams in that grade, so team 4 will play team 1 at their home court(team 1's)Clubs should still be allocated for Div 1 game spot at that stadium. This would work in the 2nd round when team 1 plays away and team 4 plays home????

Reply #355356 | Report this post


:)  
Years ago

I Just read the comment 5119 that only 5 rounds go out because kids and families cant commit to full a season.. Other than this last minute stunt of not having div 1s together, and finding out you cant get one, or the other kid to the appropriate stadium because as you were unaware you were going to have this problem when nominating to play. I would not let my child pull out of a season that they started unless injured or moving away. When you put in to play team sports that is what you have signed up to be, "A team". At seasons finish, if they wanted to quit then fine. Some Parents let kids take no responsibility for decisions they make,, and to follow through with their commitments...and parents let little spoiled Johnny go through life like this. A bit of Character Building parents will help your kids in many avenues in life. On and off the Court "Oops" that will be hard for some to read I guess..good luck for winter season.

Reply #355378 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Last post is dead right - great post.

Facts

Clubs were not consulted, no survey done asking those who pay their wage (members) their thoughts.

Last minute bomb dropped with carelessness attitude.

Lack of communication before and after scheduling.

Any one have a legal background?

Can we send our travel bills etc to BSA?

Did notice have to be given to members a certain time before the dramatic change?

Is it in the bylaws that any significant change and negative impact needs to be consulted to clubs/members before implementation?

Interesting huh.



Reply #355402 | Report this post


can't believe it  
Years ago

added cost of fuel to travel across town and back

added cost of transfer ticket

Reply #355446 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why can't we just play the first five rounds of the Winter season over 1 weekend in a massive competition.

Then we could have 4 weeks off to get over it.

Reply #355532 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Beam Orders - a quick, simple order and payments site for your business.
College Consulting - including eligibility, subject selection, transcript and scholarship advice
Punch - insightful time tracking

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 10:22 am, Fri 21 Jan 2022 | Posts: 910,404 | Last 7 days: 515