AIS is a complete waste of time, why not worry about who's coming out of the state Teams?????

Heard AIS is changing focus away from the kids to a more mature program.

If you think that the only players going to the AIS are our future your dreaming..Some players knock back the offer in the first place.
They are selected by potentially people with clouded visions due to other commitments.
National championships are not the only place to look...eg: Hard to stand out in a great team if you are playing a TEAM game.Some players whilst the better player get limited minutes in pool games for team harmony and their stats at end of week are not that impressive, while in other weaker teams you will see players getting 40 min a game and racking up big numbers leading to AIS invites
Presuming players are selected at the U/16 & 18 this also allows for a player who may develop later
My problem is that the AIS teams never have to actually play against their peers and put themselves on the line.
In the U/20 nationals I would like to see the AIS enter as a team themselves.Who cares if they win every year,but we might be surprised at how they actually play against their own age rather than breeding a losing and excuse culture of constantly calling them kids.
All AIS deals should be 1 year and you earn your spot to be re selected

Ben Simmons isn't even at the AIS anymore, he left.

Also. They have always been 1 year offers that can be cancelled at any point.

The theory of the A.I.S. is fine. The implementation has a lot to be desired.
The AIS is funded to help find and produce the best athletes it can within Australia. but here in Victoria it is said at every single talent identification camp
"It doesnt matter how good or talented your child is, it's who we decide is selected". Which in itself defeats the purpose and leads to all sorts of eye raising.
Talent Id camps are held to push players into their respective ITC programs.
Those programs are run by coaches from various clubs who are well know to push for players from their own clubs to somehow showcase their own clubs importance with the light shining down on them.
It doesnt take a genius or rocket sciencetist to work it out. Its blatant and a natural flow on effect.
Yes the AIS has produced some great athletes but also a hell of a lot of bench sitters.
SEABL, Big V are littered with them while many others who have never had an opportunity are running the courts.
The AIS needs to stop thinking of itself as the be all and end all like many people have. Selecting potential "Aust" players from only what has been developed through that institution as if their are no others that have developed or surpassed their players to warrant a look at.
Kids are earmarked and pushed from the ages of 16. Am i to assume no other players outside of the AIS can develope over a ten year period through playing seabl, Big V, WNBL, NBL to warrant a look...seems that way.
Its a pity some narrow minded people can only utter the normal words of...oh, just because your kid didnt make it...Boring!!
If Australia seriously want to be considered a legitimate threat in years to come, maybe people should open their eyes.

The objective of the AIS is to produce the best team to win a world championship. I think that the AIS should not be in the business of producing teams. They should be in the business of producing the best players to be selected, by another body of basketball, to win a world championship. By taking this approach, they will be more focused on skill production that can fit in multiple systems. Instead of having players who are great in executing a play, they need to produce players that are great in executing a skill.

Question posted previously was : "Observer what year did your little superstar miss out on selection ?."

The answer may well be that "OBSERVER" probably has a number of little "special" superstars that he like to keep an "eye" on.

That particular "non-de-plume" is well known in quite a few basketball circles.

Basically a low-level troll with even less of a clue than I have !

Does anyone know how the AIS administration and coaching salaries work? If they're performance-based, what performance are they measuring?

If, as some suggested, a lot of AIS grads don't excel beyond the AIS then those salaries should be dropping fast.

I must be wrong then...Pick the AIS kids then make them the Australian team...and lets watch the results.there will not be a team...they are out injured that often

Thats where you are dreaming...my point is they DO NOT stand out..or should I say it is subjective.What makes you think the best players even get to Nationals
I am certain that every state team selection has detractors.But if you are so pathetic to think and accept that every selection is perfect and no one is overlooked you live in a perfect worl
I can name a Rep coach that became a state coach...picked 6 of his own players into the state team...did they even win their own state champs...NO..he then became an assistant at national level and 4 of them get to the AIS...But of course his selections were not influenced or biased and the information he was passing was balanced....Never see the head coaches there...just fed what ever the underpins feed them

And how can ant selection not be subjective.

Just like your opinion?

What if more than 2 players from one team are good enough to make the State Team?

Everyone gets a chance and selection is made by the coach.

It seems to me that the AIS has done it's job over the journey.

Take a look at the % of players who have represented Australia at Olympic games and World Championships with AIS experience vs the ones without.

The AIS have never been about producing teams, it's always been about producing athletes who can represent the country and they have a very good success rate.

This doesn't mean that if you don't got AIS that you can't make it but it is an advantage, just like making a state team or rep team, it affords you access to the better facilities and coaching.

Still think the decision to withdraw from SEABL has hurt the Men's program but time will tell.

Victorian womens coach

The long term objective of the AIS basketball program is to develop athletes to represent Australia at World Championships and Olympic Games.

Nine out of the twelve 2012 Olympic Boomers went to the AIS.

Ten out of the twelve 2010 World Championship Boomers went to the AIS.

Thanks for the stats to support my point Vart.

Believe it was reported 10 years back that the AIS no longer coaches the the kids how to be individual stars but team rounded role players. Believe it was also reported that individual post training session is being drastically neglected due to preferring the much easier coaching of outside shooting.

This is why seriously talented players like Greenwood, Motrum and other are struggling to adjust to life in the college system. Look at Mat Dellavedova resent games for Australia and you will a player with outstanding ability to role play but when he gets the chance to show case his abilities in iso situations he ends up either turning the ball over or making that pass which ends in a turn over.

Think the next big Basketball production line will come from that project Bogut was/is putting together. A USA styled training Facility with AAU styled camps.

Recent changes to state programs are focusing on individual skills with a 'euro-ball' flavour.

A move away from pounding juniors with o/s shooting when few can put the ball on the floor, get to the paint, and find someone for an uncontested shot!

Wow- where to start? Rather than respond to everything raised here let me make a few comments.

Before I start let me declare my self-interest. I have a daighter who has been through the system and no, did not get a scholarship invite to the AIS. But having coached with State teams and NBL teams and played at NBL level myself I think I have a reasonable level of experience to draw upon.

If you trawl through my preious posts you will find some which support the talent ID process and the way it works. It is fair to say my view has changed.

Stuff I've seen on the girls side of the game.

A group of players identified following the National U16 Champs which would remain unchallenged for the remainder of their junior career. Coaches were not allowed to bring players into the group from outside.

Players selected in National teams who had not played a full schedule or completed a full National Team camp for two years prior to selection. To be fair, some of those players have ultimately delivered (but so would you if you were completely confident in your selection and were given unlimited opportunities).

National U20 squads named two weeks prior to the National Champs (makes the team seem particularly accessible to those outside the circle - not).

BA overturning the selection of players from outside the circle who the coach wanted included.

Players selected in the Boomers for a World Championships and then told by the Head Coach that he wasn't their pick and wouldn't play.

Families deliberately and successfully forming relationships which ensured their child was part of the circle.

AIS players delivering less than 3ppg, 5rpg at sub .250 shooting being selected in National squads (as a 6' 'big').

Which I understand all sounds like sour grapes but if we expect Australia to develop, then we have reason to expect better from our so-called leaders.

To those who point out the high number of AIS grads who make up our National squads, can I politely ask if it is causal or circumstantial? Do the AIS prodcue the best athletes because of what they do or do they produce high numbers of Boomers/Opals because they get the best athletes who get the best opportunities?

Compare the pathways for AIS and non-AIS kids - which path do you want to be on? Yet the difference in talent is often marginal. Given that difference in talent is marginal, is it not to be expected that the player who plays international tournaments, lives and breathes basketball full-time with no-cost access to facilities and equipment as well as sports science support should go on to produce at a higher level.

Patty Mills - AIS grad or St Mary's grad. For me the answer is obvious and is a bit of everything. Until the AIS start taking benchies from the Nationals and producing Australian teams who succeed internationally with those players we'll never really know what sort of job the AIS is doing.

But I have to say unless you are part of the 'chosen few' (at age 14 in my daughter's case) then the pathways and opportunities in Australian basketball are pretty limited. My daughter has been 'lobbied' to stay in Australia and not go to college, to which the obvious question is why would I? To be training fodder for a WNBL program while I pay for my education and the opportunity to play basketball?

At which point I am sure the 'believers' among you will say 'who - give us proof' to which I say you will either believe me or not and whether you do or don't is of no real concern to me. I would also say that unfortunately the names do not matter as I would suggest there are any number of people who could tell the same stories - only the names would be changed, and therein lies the problem.

'Picking winners' works only for those coaches who do the picking and are then in a position to ensure their picks are correct and never challenged. It doesn't work for the sport and it doesn't work for the kids. It certainly doesn't work for the kids on the outside but ultimately, it doesn't work for the kids on the inside. Otherwise why is the most talented kid in her age group and the latest 'next Lauren Jackson' now playing second-tier netball.

Wow. You've opened up a few cans of worms there mate!

As far as the AIS trying to coax players not to go to college, I think that its entirely ridiculous. In an era where there are constant complaints from basketball people about other sports pinching basketballs best talent, they want to then go and take away one of the sports major points of difference, the ability to get a free higher education? It makes no sense. And they say that its because the players get lost in the system and its hard to keep track of them? I say thats rubbish.

ais and college need to go like peas in a pod and just pick your best players.

that is just the way it gets done nowadays not 1985


both have positives.

What is the 'burn rate' for the kids who go to a US college? i.e. how many drop out of :
1 Basketball
2 College

I do really query the idea that kids go to the US to get a good education, along with the basketball. It is not hard to argue that the Aust education system (in any state) is better than the US colleges where Australian kids go for their basketball.

Rock - you make a good point BUT I'd suggest it's probably about the same as kids who go to Uni over here. Again, we have a structural issue where our clubs/Associations, State programs and national programs are so top-centric that unless you area superstar you pursue your sport at your own expense/desire.

If you have the resources to pay upfront for your Uni, pay for your opportunties to play and practice, and place no little value on the life experience, then staying at home and goin to an Australian school is a better option.

However, if you want to emerge from College with a degree, some life experience, and a basketball experience beyond what is available is here (and I said experience becasue the development is not necessarily better depending on your situation) and be largely debt-free, then the US is your only option (short of being Liz, Loz et al and earning megabucks in Europe and Asia.

With a little forethought, BA could capitalise on both pathways and benefit enormously. Imagine a National U24 Championships instead of U20's. The U20's are no longer a selction tool and incresingly kids are pulling out because of the cost and 'championship fatigue'. This tournament would be a great way to re-engage those returning from College and also the numerous 'late-bloomers' out there who never played State juniors. It would also provide an incentive and a pathway for clubs and associations to maintain contact with these players for their return and to maintain them as valued parts of the basketball community. These second-tier players are the backbone of our sport at a grassroots level - they coach our junior teams well, they play for ABL and SEABL and State league for long periods, they support NBL and WNBL programs and right now - we currently go without their skills for up to twenty years between when they leave for college or graduate juniors until they have their own kids who are entering the sport.

There are many pathways - unfortunately BA is only intersted in the one (and there is only one) which leads to the Boomers and Opals :(.

Well said ankles. I really like the idea of an under 24 championship. It is easy to lose contact with the college players once they've graduated, which is why the NBL's under-24 rule was fundamentally a good idea, unfortunately though it was poorly executed.

I really strike a chord with your comments about 'keeping players part of the basketball community as long as possible'. That makes complete sense.

well said ankles i do believe you have covered how the girls side of things work and i also know someone at the AIS in girls that also is being told not to go to college in USA,they dont like it, but it doesnt mean they carnt go as alot of the boys opt to go

Ankles, a lot of what you say makes good sense to me. An u24 comp here would be great, maybe state by state in the first instance instead of national.

I had a relation who went on a full US basketball scholarship, and it still cost the family a lot of money, even tho' he was able to work around the college for a bit of pocket money.
Hardly a 'free' education. I expect most if not all kids or parents have to pay a lot, over and above the airfare.

In terms of a life experience, yes I agree, and this is probably of more value in the long run than the basketball, for most kids.

Mills should have played 3 or more years.....but that's a topic for another thread!

Why would the AIS recommend that players not go to the US colleges? Ummm - maybe because if they did then the AIS would be seen as irrelevant and would lose funding and prestige, and people might be out of jobs?

The AIS wants to be seen as always having the cream of the Aussie crop. Unfortunately, that also makes it very political when it comes to getting funding and keeping positions and hanging onto quality players.

Why would the AIS recommend that players not go to the US colleges? Ummm - maybe because if they did then the AIS would be seen as irrelevant and would lose funding and prestige, and people might be out of jobs?

The AIS wants to be seen as always having the cream of the Aussie crop. Unfortunately, that also makes it very political when it comes to getting funding and keeping positions and hanging onto quality players.

Sport in Australia for athletes between the age of 12 and 18 is and has always been not about who you know and not Talent. There are many kids out there that have been forced to move clubs just to try and get their name known to be selected in teams.

When growing up myself and my friend did just that while it did not help us due to being to old (deemed) it did put our family names in spot light and our brothers suddenly went from nobodies to state team squad memebers without even playing a game.