doggy
Years ago

Crocs are pretenders

All this talk about Townsville being contenders, its false! They are mid rane at best.

A bunch of unproven qbl players, 2 questionable imports and no true starting pg. Lack balance also with no dominant inside big man.

Will miss finals and get owned by their rivals Cairns again.

Agree?

Topic #29389 | Report this topic


orbit  
Years ago

Well coached & balance can be found throughout year with adjustments. Will be in a tussle with adelaide, wollongong & Tigers to grab 4th spot!

Reply #380215 | Report this post


doggy  
Years ago

My list analysis:

Withers - Could be proven wrong but done nothing/undersized.
Holmes - Good role player but not elite compared to other teams PF.
Blanchfield - Good potential but still qbl level/role player.
Crawford - The go to guy, no better than go to guys in rival rosters.
Forte - Really? This athletic sf as the pg? Should have retained eddy Gill 'the thrill'

Hinder- Decent as a cheap veteran]
Allen - Decent as a cheap big but has flaws.
M.Cedar - Nothing more than an inconsistent 3ball shooter.
C.Cedar- QBL level player
Norton - DVP level player, still young and not ready.

Reply #380216 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think it's safe to assume the only reason Forte replaced Eddie Gill is because he would've come a lot cheaper and from all reports Withers is relatively cheap too.

I didn't have them making the playoffs anyway but it's looking like it could be a long year for their fans.

Reply #380222 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Season hasn't even started yet but Sydney should be fighting over the spoon with Melbourne

Reply #380223 | Report this post


rohant16  
Years ago

Interested to see how Blanch and Norton go because they were shining lights in that Stankovic cup. But yeah it doesn't really strike you as a championship team.

Reply #380224 | Report this post


Jake  
Years ago

Orbit - apart from NZ and Perth who are proven who would you have in 3rd spot? I'd say 36ers comfortable in top 3 this season.

Reply #380234 | Report this post


Spursfan  
Years ago

Yep, totally agree. The Crocs are done. Absolutely toast already. Won't win a game.

As we all know, a few preseason results dictate how a team will go during the full regular season. That is widely known fact. The first couple of preseason games (not even that, probably a few quarters even), give us enough data to make a fair and accurate prediction on how a team will finish up in 6-7 month's time.

Personally, I'm wondering how the experts on this forum didn't see this season's failure (because it's clearly a failure already) three months ago.

Reply #380236 | Report this post


Spursfan  
Years ago

Fact is this:

The roster is exactly the same as last season's that almost knocked the Breakers off apart from two players leaving and one player coming in.

The team has another season together. I guess team retaining its guys over multiple seasons is bad for that team's success.

Young guys who have been playing another year and adding to their ability over that time will garner a negative result to a team's performance.

The team's leader (a good player also) for the past few years comes back, shit that is definitely negative.

Also, unless you were watching QBL games with the three young Crocs guys, you don't have an idea how they play. How can you possibly say Todd Blanchfield is QBL level. Once you guys see a theme, you jump on a bandwagon that's for sure. The Crocs will be right there battling with the best teams. I could go on, but there are more important things to do in life, like put my feet up and watch TV.

Reply #380237 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The roster is exactly the same as last season's that almost knocked the Breakers off apart from two players leaving and one player coming in.


Um they've replaced Schenscher, Gill & Mims with Hinder, Forte & Withers!

Reply #380239 | Report this post


Spursfan  
Years ago

Okay Anonymous, three and three. I was thinking on a different wavelength. Got any other comment?

Reply #380240 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

When haven't the Crocs ever been pretenders?
If they fail agin this season, the owners might call it quits. They won't want to put their hands into their pockets twice in less than a year.

Reply #380242 | Report this post


J  
Years ago

Will be there with Adelaide and cairns. These three teams will most likely finish 3-5.
Withers likely to go early got down to see the game. Lazy, too small and the continual recruitment of these plays is an indictment on basketball in Australia as a whole.

Reply #380250 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Meagre stats from both imports again and beaten easily by the Hawks who were led by their 11th man.

Reply #380280 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Crocs imports in 4games this year

Jason Forte
Avg in 4 games:6pts 3rebs 1.25ast

6pts 2reb 0ast Vs Nz 2/7fg
9pts 5rebs 3ast Vs Syd 4/10fg
4pts 3reb 2ast Vs syd 2/5fg
5pts 3rebs 0ast Vs hawks 2/4fg

Curtis Withers
Avg:4.75pts 3.75
4pts 4reb Vs Nz 2/8 fg
5pts 4 rebs VS kings 2/6fg
5pts 3rebs Vs kings 2/4fg
5pts 4rebs Vs the hawks 0-1fg

Reply #380281 | Report this post


Pug 64  
Years ago

WOW way to go guys, if you think the Croc's are pretenders why are you even bothering commenting. Got to love it. That's what is wrong with the Croc's are the negitive supporters. Kick them when the are down (instead of being positive) and but jump on the bandwagon when they win. Oh and the SEASON has not even started. Oh I hope they make you eat your words and the sadest day will be if we loose another NBL Team as I actually LOVE the sport and those the SUPPORT it. You just have to look at NRL the supporters that went to the airport to support the Cowboys after the lost their last game. Shame on you!

Reply #380287 | Report this post


orbit  
Years ago

jake - i like cairns. Fearney is turning into a great coach & the horses are there!

Reply #380289 | Report this post


ant  
Years ago

Crocs looked a better team when Chris Cedar was running the team.

Imports from Crocs might not last long at this rate. Jazzmar Ferguson would look good in a Crocs jersey

Reply #380291 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

I agree i'd chase Ferguson.Smart player, can score and controls the tempo of the game.Knows how to get to the hole and how refs call the game.

Reply #380292 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They would be better served with the Bandits pair of imports!

Reply #380293 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Will they move before the season starts? Last night, Withers was up against a Davidson-less Hawks frontcourt and didn't get much of a start to demand more minutes.

Reply #380298 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

The imports are the issue here, but it's still waaaay too early: they've only been in the country a couple of weeks. If they are no good they are easily replaced. I don't see the big deal.

Plus, the Crocs have never done well in the pre-season, so how is it any barometer of the regular season ahead?

No one is picking the Crocs to win it all, so why would you even troll around alluding to that fact as if you were the first controversial dissenter to call "bullshit" on their title chances?

The fact is, the Crocs have two great young PGs in Cedar and Norton, and couldn't afford to halt their development by bringing back Gill. People seem to gloss over the past so quickly -- as a man who watched nearly every Gill performance from last year, I found him infuriating as often as he was brilliant.

He was an "in the zone" kind of player - in that he only played well when everything was clicking. When he wasn't feeling it and his shot wasn't falling it all came tumbling down. Bringing back Mims and Gill would have been great for continuity, but the fact is, they would both be a year older (33-34) and even if Schenscher stayed, the team still needed to add another inside scorer because Schensher is easily muscled out of position and doesn't play at the rim. They fell short in their contract talks with the guys they were chasing and ended up with Withers. Not the end of the world -- if he continues to stink, you replace him, if he comes good, well then he comes good.

Some other facts you are overlooking:

- Mick Cedar just came off a fantastic QBL season, leading the Mackay Meteors to the state championship as their MVP.

- Cedar and Norton are both a year older, and both have long NBL careers ahead of them.

- Blanchfield is starting to put it all together. If in doubt, get on youtube and watch his highlights from the QBL season just finished. Highlights are just that, but they show a Blanchfield that is starting to put his athleticism to good use with plays at the basket. Dunks, dunks, dunks.

- Hinder has come back, and all signs point to him being better than when he went down. I will count myself among the doubters who said he was done a year ago, because I thought he looked slow and fragile BEFORE the injury, but he has proved me wrong already.

- Ben Allen has miraculously turned from one of the worst players in the league into a double-double machine. Look up his pre-season stats. By the analytical metrics alone, in the pre-season, he is the best center in the league right now. Read that last sentence again. If you told me six months ago that I would ever say that, let alone so soon, I would tell you you were maniacally insane and needed to seek emergency medical treatment immediately.

- Crawford is Crawford. The best (if not, top 3) SG in the league. At 33 he is coming off arguably the best season of his career, and pre-season signs indicate he has another season or two left in him as a starter.

- Holmes is the best pound-for-pound rebounder in the league. He has no offensive game outside of his jumpshot, but rebounders in the NBL are rare as hens' teeth. Enough said. The Crocs leading minute-getter last season for a reason. You can't afford to have a rebounder like him on the bench, on any team.

Do you want to know another fact - the only reason anyone from the southern states is paying attention to Cairns is because they signed Cameron Tragardh, a player they recognise and can talk about. Take him away and you still have a great team that would finish in the top tier of the league -- but take him away and everyone down south would be saying they are a lock for the wooden spoon.

If these two Crocs imports were both what they were touted to be, you are looking at an instant contender. Right now, they both have a lot to prove, but whether they come good, stink and stay, or are replaced entirely, the Crocs will be in the playoff mix as always. How much further than that, though, will be purely as far as the imports take them.

Another thing everyone is overlooking -- this team has the lowest payroll in the league, and by a wiiiide margin. Think about that every time your capped-out club loses to them.

Reply #380299 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mick. Are you freekin serious.This statement alone could not go unchallenged.
Mickkl looking through rose coloured glasses.

"Norton and Cedar to GREAT young point guards."

Most other NBL fans.

"Crocs have BY FAR the weakest PG rotation in the league"

Mick I am a Hawks fan and in previous seasons Tim Coenraad has had great QBL seasons. Do I think he will ever be anything but a lower level NBL player based on that? No because I watch what he can do or has done at NBL level understanding the difference in standard of the two leagues.

Let us just wait a little before we anoint the stiff that is Ben Allen to be an NBL "double double" player. Do you realise how many double double players their actually are. My guess is very few.I for one doubt he will see enough minutes to becauseactor becuse teams will exploit his absolute lack of lateral movement at the other end of the court where his only method of stoppingopponentrect oponent is to foul them. This is the exact reason that Axel Dench a player with a similar but far superior offensive skill set did not last in the league.

I think most people have started rating the Snakes in the last season or two because they have proven to punch above their weight and Fearne is getting respect as a very good coach. Most posts I have read from people wiknowledgetball knowlege I respect are actually questioning how his defensive weakness and lack of rebounding will fir into the Cairns style of game rather than writing up their chances. The other main reason Cairns are rated now is that they have a proven STAR PG and history has shown that has a lsuccessdo with sucess in the NBL.

Yes Crawford is Crawford and is the only top level NBL player in the team. Holmes is a great rebounder. One of the best ever in my opinion but would need to reproduce the uncharacteristic scoring outburst of early last season. There is a big question on his ability to do that based on career as a whole.


To sum it up I think most people rated the Crocs as in the mix for 4th spot. That was when there was a bit of hype based on Woolpert's claims about import quality. They have not shown to be anything of note as yet. That is all people are questioning. Legitimate questions in my opinion becuse neither the talent level in thier team of the skill of their coach has shown to be at a level to get them to the playoffs with two quality imports.

Reply #380301 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry for the typos.

Reply #380303 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Agree on most points above, anon. Overall QBL performance doesn't have much of a correlation to NBL performance. But that doesn't mean you can't take niche elements that a guy has been working on and extrapolate them into forecasts for the NBL season (albeit to be taken with a grain of salt).

I'm not making any predictions about Ben Allen continuing his form, and I didn't say anything about him other than he is a double double machine in PRE SEASON so far, and right now he is the best center in the league, purely from a statistical point of view. I know it sounds weird, but it's true. The numbers are there. I'm not annointing him as anything that isn't entirely backed up by the stats (for now). I'm not taking into account missed defensive rotations, points against, anecdotal evidence or advanced statistics, just purely looking at basic ppg, rpg, fg%, and +/-. Again, I haven't even seen him play this season yet. But from the basic box score he is killing it right now. You have to remember Neville and Khazzouh are both out. So is Wilkinson. The league is a little smaller this season.

There is every chance he falls back to earth when the season starts, but even if he could provide half the production he is giving right now, it would be a massive improvement and asset.

Norton and Cedar are not great NBL point guards, but are great YOUNG NBL point guards. This is Cedar's second season, and is basically Norton's first. Cedar runs an offense tremendously well for a younger guy, even if his stats don't look great.

I'm not going to lie to you, I would rather have only one of the two, with an experienced PG starting, but the Crocs are not going to let either of them walk given they are both local products who have been developed by the club since they were young teenagers. Having both of them, plus a starting PG doesn't make sense when you consider the lineups come game day. So you have to make that decision based on the known quantity that they will retain local players above almost anything else.

The imports right now both appear to be duds, yes, but anything can happen. I haven't seen either of them play in person yet, so I couldn't tell you whether it's an effort issue, a pure skill/talent thing or they're just taking it easy in the pre-season.

The big problem with this team comes more in the form of the imports' innate attributes, not necesarily their lacklustre performances so far.

Woolpert had guaranteed a low post monster, and a combo guard. See the problem?

Withers is too small to play C (as opposed to the taller guys they were in negotiations with), and Forte is not a combo guard any way you slice it. So it throws the whole lineup out of whack. They are both playing out of position. Could be part of the reason for the horrible performances... are they being asked to do something they simply cannot, or are they just no good? (again, haven't seen them play so if anyone has would appreciate some insight here...)

It's almost ironic that we found one guy that was too big for the position we want him to play and another guy that was too small for his...

It's way too early to be passing judgments on a team that lost the focal point and key distributor of their entire offense. Everything went through Schensch, and his passing was his greatest asset to the team. It will take them a while yet to adjust. If they are still playing like this in two months time, I will be one of the loudest detractors, but for now, it's just too early.

Reply #380308 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ferguson had an outstanding year and if he returns next season will be far better scouted and far less effective. In the NBL, he wouldnt be good enough.

Reply #380309 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Ferguson is a six-foot-nothing pure shooter. An absolutely fantastic shooter, even, and a testament to hard work and persistance having a breakout year like that at his age, but not an NBL level player purely because of his physical limitations, unfortunately.

Blanchfield is 6 foot 7, one of the most athletic ballplayers in the country, and about four years younger than him. Norton is then two years younger than BLANCHFIELD.

It's apples and oranges.

Reply #380310 | Report this post


pwned  
Years ago

I dont care if it is preseason. Daniel Jackson top scores against you and there is issues.

Reply #380312 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

You could say the same about every team that had Ben Allen drop a big game on. Coaches are going to try different things out in pre-season, especially making bench guys fill more of a "go-to" role to see how they respond.

For what it's worth, Daniel Jackson dropped 8 and 8 on the Sixers the night before.

Pwned, indeed.

Reply #380315 | Report this post


pwned  
Years ago

If you look at the potential of Allen vs the potential of Jackson, its not even close. Jackson has been in the league for 7 years, he reached his potential in the first year. The difference is that people expect Allen to improve and eventually perform, so having Jackson top score against you should be flat out embarrassing.

Reply #380316 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Jackson is nowhere near his potential.

Reply #380317 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

P-R-E S-E-A-S-O-N.

Reply #380318 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

I wouldn't read too much into these "role-players" top scoring.

Teams scout the big guns (Forman, Deleon etc) more obviously.

Also, with it been pre-season, the big guns are more comfortable with passing the ball around and trying to play more within the offence and get the role-players up to speed.

Reply #380320 | Report this post


ant  
Years ago

Id take Ferguson over Forte at the moment. You can scout him but he is the best PG in the SEABL for a long time.

He might be 6 foot nothing, but at the moment the Crocs have a 6'6 SF playing PG. It seems they need a 6 foot nothing player who can shoot, pass and run an offence.

Reply #380324 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Maybe replace Withers with Ferguson, see how Forte goes in his more natural role, then drop him for whatever's most needed if he doesn't pick up pace. If Allen can maintain reasonable numbers, then the team might not be so desperate for a PF. Still, right now they have the weakest PG rotation and probably the weakest front court.

Reply #380328 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac. Ferguson would be killed in the NBL.

Reply #380363 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think the hinder, allen, holmes frontcourt is pretty good if they stay healthy and keep playing



Agree that the early form of withers is a question mark - prob the first to go in my view

Forte has the potential to be a monster once he gets used to the nbl

norton will be the starting point by the end of the season

should have picked up goulding in the off season

Reply #380380 | Report this post


Ingles13  
Years ago

not even mid range

Reply #385835 | Report this post




 

Reply to this topic

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Vesta 65

Rules:You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players. Learn how to embed YouTube videos or tweets

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.



Close ads
PickStar - The best place to book sports stars
Punch - insightful time tracking
Dunk.com.au - Custom basketball uniforms

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



Invoicing clients? Stay productive with Punch, the insightful time tracker that earns you more.

Special offer: $30/month Pay $100 for lifetime access. Sign up now!

.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:33 pm, Mon 30 Mar 2020 | Posts: 829,502 | Last 7 days: 556