heard he is doing some schooling full time up in geelong and hes living there so maybe it would make sense for him to play there. I dont think he's the type of guy that would want to compete against his mates so thats why he made a move maybe? plus nunawading is a good hour and a half drive from geelong so it makes sense.
You have no idea what your talking about, Corio Bay has a tiny budget, the Supercats have to buy all their talent and bring it in from outside Geelong. Its just rubbish saying the stingrays club have heaps of cash without any idea whatsoever.
Tiger Watcher, Stingrays aren't poaching or buying players with cash. A lot of players played juniors but there was no rep program for juniors until 03 and no mens program so the only way to go any further in basketball was Geelong Supercats or their Big V side. They had the luxury of having 3 associations to pick their players from as Bellarine and Corio Bay didn't have programs set up other than domestic. Now that Corio Bay feature in seniors, players can come back to where they originally started off playing.
Anon: Lets put it in perspective.
Williams - Isn't cheap SEABL level import so he isn't playing for beer money!
Hicks - Moved to Geelong but plenty of options avaible who offered him good $$ - "Rumours" doing the rounds is he was offer $10K by CB
I also just putting it out there that other players were compensated samller amounts aswell $1,000 to $2,500...so that is a budget comparable to Ringwood & Waverley!
The MINIMUM legal wage you MUST pay an import is about $26K based on 7 months here.
Clubs normally cover airfares, a car, accom etc, so Williams could be easily costing CB $40K.
Hicks reportedly on 10K, so that's upto possibly 50K.
That's only 2 players, the rest wouldn't be playing for love either.
So SEABL teams brings in good players which makes it a great comp.
Big V teams bring in good players (Waverly, Stingrays, Ringwood, Eltham) and they're poaching/big bank accounts?
Players will play below market level if they think they can win championships. Look at the NBA/AFL. The Stingrays are not touching the jnr rep program's money to fund Big V and are not spending outside of their means. Guys like Williams, Hicks, Reardon and Hutchison could easily get more from other associations than they do from Stingrays.
Eric (import, every team has at least 1) and Ma'alo are the only players who are from outside of Geelong. Ma'alo now lives in Geelong with his girlfriend so he is a local player in terms of residence. Stingrays aren't paying for his accommodation to play with us like other clubs do for certain players.
the Supercats have to buy all their talent - just looking at their list from last year and if I understand correctly Loader, Medved, Owusu, Harrison, Headlam, Rebula are all Geelong core - not sure about Friend - certainly Barrett, Wilson, Mecanovice and Qufaw (2 games) were outsiders? And then you have Herbert (did not play last season) and Reardon (playing for Corio Bay).
I would think there are very few teams genuinely boasting that amount of locally developed talent.
You might not have seen the debates last year about the way Corio Bay was entered into championship division when they effectively had to recruit a bunch of players in order to make the grade? Not trying to reopen that, just pointing out that I think your assertion and criticism about "having to buy all their talent and bring it in from outside Geelong" would seem pretty misfounded, if not completely baseless.
Plenty of teams in SEABL have two imports, but Geelong surround their imports consistently with a lot of good quality local players. Give credit where it is due.
JV Coach, your points are silly.
No one takes junior rep money to pay for senior rep. They might take junior domestic (almost everyone does!) but not jnr rep - its a pretty big difference.
And you forget geography. Those guys might get more money elsewhere (although I doubt Williams would) but they would also have to travel to do it.
Reardon would get an import salary at Warrnambool and plenty of other BigV assocs, but does he want to travel to play and train?
regarding the Supercats players - D.Friend is a local Geelong guy, while N.Freind grew up in Geelong, moved to Perth before returning to play for the Supercats so originally from the area.
When the Supercats first started they had a policy of a high percentage of players had to be local guys and that doesn't seem to have changed - only the 2 imports and Mecanovic from last seasons team aren't originally from Geelong. Not sure where the other person gets their idea that they have to buy in talent because majority of the team does originate from Geelong - they don't seem to go after too many players from other organisations which some SEABL teams seem to do.
And what development did they put into this young Supercat? Bench warming development? Also where did this young Supercat play all his junior basketball?
By the way, Osborne isn't the only junior playing in their Big V side.....this is quite amusing to read the amount of bs being written on here.
Who are you talking about Sting What? No player has been named thus far, just that Stingrays are pursuing yet another Supercats player.
Hutchison - Supercats SEABL
Reardon - Supercats SEABL
Osborne - Supercats SEABL
Smith - Supercats SEABL
Walker - Supercats SEABL
Hell, the coaching staff is from Supercats
Where did Stef Osborne play U12 and U14 basketball?
You seem to know names Anonymous. You forgot Luke Osborn too. Life Be In It has been the breeding ground for the Supercats for a very long time, they have had 3 associations to pick players from (Bellarine being the other one), now the Life Be In It Centre (Stingrays) have a rep team it is time to bring some of them back home where they originally started playing. It seems like the Supercats can't handle another competitor in the region. All those names must be coming to Corio Bay for a reason......
Yes Osborne played for Geelong in under 12's but the Stingray program didn't exist then. He also played Ballarat D League SEABL and played one season of Geelong Big V, not Supercats SEABL>
The young kids who are Stingray juniors who are in the current Big V side: Hobbs, Eichler, Ogle and Osborne.
You keep talking about players coming back to where they started?
Where did Reardon, Walker, Hutchison, Smith, Osborn, Trevaskas, Keepen, Riches, Osborne start playing? Not stingrays pal, so they are not going back to where they started at all. Damn facts getting in the way?
now the Life Be In It Centre (Stingrays) have a rep team it is time to bring some of them back home where they originally started playing
Your the one who keeps mixing the two. Doesn't change the fact those guys started playing at places like The Arena (supercats)...
Don't wanted to be misquoted. I did not say that Osborne was the ONLY junior playing in their side. I said he had a good season. Which he seemed to.
The other Corio Bay juniors played extremely limited minutes. And it would appear Corio Bay do not expect them to step up this year - as they are recruiting over the top of them.
This reinforces the principle concern lots of people expressed last year about the way Corio Bay were put into Championship level - that they could not compete there out of their own talent pool, and would need to recruit heavily to succeed. That has proved to be true, and Hicks, whether opportunistic or not, just reinforces that perception.
It's great for the BigV to have another strong competitive Champ Mens side. For too long all the talks been about just Waverley, Eltham, Ringwood and DV. As a long time BigV player all teams at this level talk to other players from different associations and leagues, and are talking shit if they say they don't.
I'm all for junior development don't get me wrong, but if you have players wanting to play for your club, from other teams,who are proven players would you not look at them?
There's nothing wrong with fielding a team bought in and made up from players from elsewhere, just don't make claims you're supporting your junior program or have no money because you look stupid doing it.
CB have assembled a team with $$ using players developed from other associations, why is it so hard to admit it.??
HO, wasn't disregarding your statement, true with what you said with Osborne the only junior having an impact this season. The question was asked who else in the side played juniors at the club. The club was only established in 2003 so the oldest junior players are 21. Anyone over this age and can hoop in the region has most likely played for Geelong at some stage as there was no alternative. The likes of Reardon, Walker, Osborn etc have been playing in our domestic competition for years on end but there was no pathway or senior program for them. The players are still locals and if you ask them most originally started playing at Life Be In It before GABA. GABA clubs used to (not sure if they still do) and scout kids on a Saturday and if they could play they would introduce them to rep.
Agree with Anon above, all clubs recruit players/coachs from other clubs.
Anon....i like the fact we will have 4 strong champ teams in big v next season.
Over the last couple of years it has been a 3 horse race (Eltham,Ringwood,Waverley)...not sure anyone really talks about DV but hey i guess your probably a supporter and lets hope with a new coach they can push for finals.
I think the Big V needed CB and they need a strong CB to help add depth to the comp...I admit it's worrying about the long term future if they have to buy players with a very small junior program to provide future players.
Looks like the comp will be a race in 4 again this year with CB putting there hand up join the other 3....so really looking forward to a strong and competitive season as the last 2 years haent been competitive until finals as we have known the top 3 teams after about round 6.
This money line keeps getting thrown out. What money? Where is this money coming from?
It wouldn't be because the club has a good bunch of players on and off the court, good coaching staff, great culture, good crowds (not comparing to Supercats but just in general Big V terms) and good staff behind the scenes.
Sting What? - Sorry but people will always talk about the $$$ when you have a highly sought after SEABL level import in your team, as Eric would be on a sport VISA and there are minimums you have to pay to meet those requirements and with a number of SEABL teams chasing Williams he would be getting paid over the minimum visa requirements.
By getting Hicks (despite him now living in Geelong) you would have to be compensating him to play for you...which is rumoured to be around the $10K mark.
Those two players alone are earning more than most teams budget for the whole season including coaches, players & league registerations! Thats why people will always bring up the cash..its a fact of life when you bring in these types of players.
This whole thing seems to be good for basketball in the state and especially in the geelong area. More competition is good for the Big V Champ league. More chances for Geelong people to play rep ball. More money for players. All sounds good! Stingrays are offering an opportunity for players who aren't good enough for SEABL or can't deal with the demands of that level of competition.
So the last 6-7 posts just serve to reinforce the questions that were asked last year.
If Corio Bay were honest with the league last year, and indicated they only had a bunch of 21 year olds, then the league absolutely did the wrong thing putting them in champ.
The alternative theory of course is that Corio Bay were not honest about where they were in terms of their own player development.
In either case, the correct course of action would have been to place CB in D2 and let them work up the ranks with their own talent.
Bear, that would be great if Geelong and Corio Bay could host an annual match between each other with no imports.
HO, I am not going to rebut any of that. Please do some homework before you make an opinion, you might write something that has fact behind it. You really do have no clue what happens and who we had prior to being accepted into championship.
Sting what and #387899, i think you are misreading my post as an attack on corio bay - it was not, this one might be.
I do what I always do here, and analyze the discussion and offer an opinion generally based on facts.
I am not sure what you are asking me to do homework about? I don't need to do homework, its all there in your own post.
You said that that all your juniors were basically graduating 21 year olds.
If that is the case, and I actually did not question Cb's submission to the league in my post, then they should have been nominated into D2 - that would have been the correct course of action.
Any team can nominate a bunch of players they are about to recruit. This does not make it the right thing to do.
Conversely, for the league to accept a nomination based on a bunch of recruited players, without serious prospects of serious minutes from your own juniors, and then put that team in championship, as an untested and unproven club, was the wrong thing to do.
It was expedient for them, but IMO someone did not declare the full facts (as they have NOW been declared here), or someone did not do their homework or the organisations colluded for an outcome.
I think the BigV made a poor decision last year, whatever the outcome on court.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about really. Stingrays are doing what plenty of clubs do, recruit over their own kids, pay $$ for players to come to them. It makes since that they target the Supercats players, they are the best players in the area and have a long history of producing good young players.
The point being that no club owns any player, no matter where they started or even played the previous year.
Geelong area players can now play at every level of competition, it's good for all players.
Stingrays v Supercats games? I'm sure the Supercats would be happy to play any stingrays team u12-SEABL if they ever qualify for the same league. Otherwise there is no point to the outcome and nothing to gain from a Supercats perspective.
The fuss Anon is that you can be pretty sure that is not what the Stingrays told the league their entry would be about.
Their entry would have been based (and here I am speculating Sting What) on having somewhere for their juniors to play, to build their pathway etc.
If they did not, and if they submitted their entry to the league based on the notion of having a semi-pro team they recruited from other associations and just playing one or two of their juniors, then you can be guaranteed the members would not have voted them into the league....
Ok, so you have a problem with their initial entry, we get that but that's not going to change now. They have become just like a bunch of other teams who talk up development but its not the #1 goal. This is supported by their actions playing a veteran group in their 1st season.
They had only one junior ready to play and no other player even close. Still don't so they will continue to pay for Supercats juniors to come play for them.
And again Anon, the criticism of the league last year was that it made an extraordinary decision considering the circumstances. Not just admitting the club, but straight to championship - they obviously did not do due diligence, which is their job.
The criticism is of the league, not the club. The club appears confused. The league is just plain stupid.
And the league, on admitting a club, particularly one as contentious as this one has been, should have in place a mechanism by which they can review a new clubs performance against its stated objectives.
Stingrays won back to back state titles in the CBL-never lost a game mind you with players such as Reardon, Hutchison, Osborn, Trevaskis, Walker and even Jordan Hughes from Werribee played. This was before they were in Big V They have been playing down at the association for many years.
I'd put my money on Stingrays defeating the Supercats too if the game was without imports.
Corio Bay are and will always be pretenders. The way they are going they will fold in 2 years after wasting the little money on old have-been players. Signing Maalo proves Dan Riches is a knob and has little knowledge of basketball. They will make playoffs purely because Big V SCM is so weak but will not win a championship.
The point is these Supercats players wanted to get out of that program now they can and have. Looks like Supercats don't treat their own with much regard as more are coming to Stingrays.
The signing of Maalo must hurt Supercats, golden opportunity missed. The only thing keeping Supercats competitive is their veteran core and imports. No on coming through the ranks.
Well #388085, having made a poor decision you are hardly going to say so!
Anon, not sure you need to be personally abusive. I have met Dan once or twice and he seems ok.
Perhaps #388110 the point is a little more complex than that. I think Reardon walked out on the Supercats prior to joining Corio Bay. But as I understand it, other than a rumour about another player above, the only other Supercats player they grabbed was Hutchison, who they paid, and who was not playing SEABL anyway?
Most of the criticism of Corio Bay here has been about bringing in a bunch of veteran/paid players to play ahead of their own juniors, necessitated bu choosing a fortuitous pathway (straight to championship) rather than moving up through the BigV ranks. They do only have one program to support, and if amounts like 10k for Hicks are true, then they are spending pretty recklessly for BigV.
Guys, if we are to presume that all Big V Championship teams are in the Championship Division to foster the growth of their junior program I think finger pointing would be non stop.
Corio Bay has a couple of promising junior male talent, however their junior program is still young and compared with others, it is enbrionic in the Victorian Junior representative level (VJBL) at best.
Should they have been granted a spot in Championship in thier first year?
Regardless, it happened and they made finals.
Now history will determine if that was a good decision or not...
Can they sustain the Big V at this level in the longer term, or is this recruitment going to be a costly lesson learnt?
We will see in another couple of seasons, won't we....?
Anon 388110, wow you really have no idea about the actual facts about the state of supercats or the players in the area.
I'm sure if Supercats wanted to pay Hicks they could have gone down that path but it's not the way they operate...
Reardon walked out on Supercats following a coaching change. Seems like that worked out well as Supercats won the SEABL that year after being 1-4 with him...
Osborn and Walker were retired many years prior.
Hutchison saw no opportunity at Supercats with the young guys coming up, Mecanovic, the Varley boys, Rebula, N. Freind, D. Friend, Headlam. No young guys, yeah right. The veteran core last year constituted Owusu 27yrs, Medved 29yrs and Loader 35yrs, the rest of the roster was U24 except Harrison who played a role off the bench.
Don't treat their players well? Lets look at movements over the years from supercats and all other SEABL and Big V clubs. Think you will find Supercats are one of the most stable programs going around. NBL facilities, full time front office, high level coaches, play in front of 1500+ fans every home game... Shocking treatment.
The Supercats program, junior and senior, is one that is envied by many others.
It has a solid junior development program with many young players (male and female) who are coming through and their VJBL teams are consistently in the Junior Championship (VC).
Coaching is excellent and this is never better exemplified than with the Aspiring Supercats Program, once again I believe the envy of other Associaitons.
The top tier coaching at Supercats is among the best available in Victoria and these are facts...
The fact that some juniors will probably leave for college scholarships (several already there) or alike before they come back to play SEABL or in some cases may end up in other leagues is testament to the prelonged program at junior level and consistencey in this program over decades.
Now that the Supercats are one in the same with basketball Geelong we should see some good things come out of this program.
I see no evidence of mistreatment or a verteran core holding up the program at any level, quite the contrary really..!
Anon let's ensure the facts about the Supercat juniors are correct. Varley brothers don't suit up but play Youth League. Rebulla has been a development player for 2 or 3 years who suits up but rarely used, and again plays Youth League. Hutchison retired after the 2006 championship and played for Geelong in Div 1 Men where he was assistant coach. Dom Friend and Mecanovic the only young players who regularly play minutes.
Will CB be in Championship in 5 years, only time will tell. Reports are they have started a youth league side so seems they have there eyes on the future.
Would like to see something from them in the women's side of things, but baby steps I guess. Maybe no cash after paying out $70 grand of player payments. INSERT LAUGHTER
A lot of hysterical posts here. $70 grand in player payments, WOW! The club must have some serious cash, especially with the redevelopments happening at the stadium in the near future.
Rebula has now signed with the Stingrays:
Got to love this comment which backs up my previous argument that Life Be In It has been a breeding ground for Supercats players "I played majority of my younger days at the Life. Be in it Centre and always had the Corio Bay organisation supporting me throughout my basketball career".
Here is the rest of the article: http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=1-7333-0-0-0&sID=143617&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=21303398
The problem Sting What is this just reinforces the criticisms. Another recruited player, I presume playing over the top of the juniors who we have already established, barely got a run this year.
Unfortunately Corio Bay are sending a clear message and it reads like... we want to play Championship, at whatever cost, and mostly at the cost of our own kids who have come through the ranks.
The quote does not read BTW that Rebula actually played rep with CB. Did he?
Sting What? Again, don't be overly sensitive here. I openly question lots of assumptions on this forum.
I haven't made outlandish claims about what your club may be spending etc etc, and I haven't bagged your club.
I am questioning your clubs strategy though, and what it is trying to achieve. It is very consistent of my questioning of the league and its endeavours btw. In another post I have used Warrandyte as an example.
I should point out, neither you nor the Anon's posting with a Corio Bay bias have responded with any intelligence to the questions I am asking about the clubs strategy and execution.
It seems like Corio Bay have missed the opportunity to help develop the sport.
I thought Corio Bay were full of integrity and would remember that they have came from very humble beginings. If that was the case they would have worked with clubs like Bellarine Peninsula to develop their program into a potential D2M club for the following year (2013)
If they had done theat they would have given the area a SEABL, SCM, D1M, D2M, SCYM, YL2M.
Over time that would have been a huge boost in the area. Instead they are worrying about competing with Geelong for the sake of their EGO!!
Corio Bay seem to be dead against helping Bellarine Peninsula enter the Big V. Huge shame.
Support with what? I haven't heard anything from Bellarine that they have immediate intentions of joining the Big V at any level but if I'm wrong, I know for a fact that they haven't made any official representations to the Stingrays.
If they seek help I'm sure something can be arranged as basketball in the area gets stronger with a strong Bellarine
Max, I have no idea what your point is in regards to Stingrays helping Bellarine with having a D2 team..... we are 2 different associations.
If Bellarine wanted to play D2, good on them. Not sure why you think it is our responsibility to assist Bellarine in their quest to have a senior representative program.
There are a number of clubs in Melbourne who have 'unofficial' links with each other.
I hope Bellarine do make the move to going into D2M.
Would be nice if Corio Bay shared thier experince, sure they dont need to 'help' them but why not take the big brother approach.
Pyramids are built to last, from the ground up!
Build your Association with a strong junior club base before you get too far ahead of yourself and the Big League stuff will eventually come...
Proof will be in the long term, should be interesting to read this thread in 2014??
Bellarine wont be in big V for a very long time. They Lack interest in it and are barely keeping their head above water in vjbl.
As for Corio Bay. The Junior Program is now established and drawing in big numbers due to its culture and ever improving coaching staff.
as for a big V level, lets look at geelong:
SEABL: Coach knows his stuff, but is an arrogant type
D1M: Coach tends to spend more time arguing with refs than doing anything else
YLM: Only likeable team from geelong.
SEABL W: Same coach problems as the men
D1W: Not as competitive as they should be
YLW: Coach is useless, misuse his bigs and plays favourites way too often.
The Mens program is developing still and its a big step up from VJBL in ANY big V level, finally getting a YLM team in will help our juniors develop.
as for the womens program rumours are its not that far away.
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An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:21 pm, Sun 25 Oct 2020 | Posts: 847,053 | Last 7 days: 308