Years ago

Knox Junior Raiders???

Just a concerned parent who is wondering about the direction..... Or lack of. I have been around junior rep basketball for a long time and I am extremely surprised at how much of a say parents are having. I want my kids to enjoy there basketball but this is supposed to be serious basketball, court time is not expected its earned and parent groups running their mouths is getting beyond a joke because it appears these people are being heard by some new and some outdated people in positions of power.
They have already lost good coaches over the past few years and I am hearing there may be a mass walkout at the end of the season....
So which clubs could I send my kids to where they will be challenged by coaches who aren't having to deal with a weak administration who bow to the pressures of parent groups... And I won't have to listen to their crap!!

Topic #31700 | Report this topic

Ronny Raider.  
Years ago

What good coaches have we lost???? I keep hearing this but cant seem to find any?

Reply #419267 | Report this post

College watcher  
Years ago

It is different for all parents/players but we had good luck from Knox to Dandenong Rangers...if it helps.

Reply #419268 | Report this post

Years ago

All depends what age group your children are and what are their aspirations in basketball

Reply #419272 | Report this post

What If  
Years ago

if you want to give your kid the best upbringing do not move them from club to club ... soon they will belong nowhere and what are you teaching them by just moving when times get tough ? Knox may have their issues but so do most other associations ... just let the kids play and stop worrying and listening to some of the other parents

Reply #419282 | Report this post

Years ago

Ronny the 14-1's coaches from 2 seasons ago.....they should have been coaching 16-1s this season, their record spoke for itself, and kids loved them. Another good young one left to coach at Sherbrook (Smith).
Parent's are always going to complain and run their mouths but it won't change a coaches decision. Every club has it's issues, obviously there is a lot going on at Knox right now with the vote of no confidence and some board members walking, but still a good club to play for.

Reply #419284 | Report this post

Years ago

Rowan Sword
Bedrick flizzard
Scott (coached 18-1 girls)
Heath Anderson
Dale Crotty
Daniel smith
Graham long staff was always there helping out teams

Just to name a few
And I am hearing the same thing that there a lot of coaches on the move next season

Reply #419291 | Report this post

Years ago

Crotty still coaching and longstaff still involved. Under 14/1s coaches - Crotty/Carroll are quality, but not yet in the league of the current coach. Smyth coaching 16/1s one of best junior coaches in the country. His record is without equal at knox. My club plus many others would love coaches of this calibre. Seems from what I hear an aggrieved family who are larger than life are out to destroy the reputations of good people. Be careful knox people, this family is getting a reputation around the vjbl of bagging your good coaches and volunteers. I'm proud to say my club deals very quickly with people like this. My advice is remove the cancer early before it takes over your great club.

Reply #419303 | Report this post

Years ago

Maybe ask the kids anon who they prefer as their coach?? Smyth much better at the Senior level as the players are able to take his criticism and use it positively. Crotty and Carol are def at a level comparable with Smyth and should have been given the 16-1's gig. Last season 16-1's pretty much lost its entire starting 5 that made it to nationals in 14's because of coaching issues.
Anon where is Crotty/Carroll coaching?? as they certainly aren't the 14-1s coach.

Reply #419310 | Report this post

Years ago

Crotty isn't coaching.
Smyth is a fantastic coach.
Certain aggrieved families seem to be getting away with flapping their mouths and getting away with it is creating a culture where other parents are doing the same as there is no repocusions

Reply #419311 | Report this post

VC Coach  
Years ago

Latrentis - are you serious? What club appoints coaches based on players feelings to their coaches?

I have coached with and against the guy for many years. Amongst my network of State, VC and VJBL coaches, the guy is seen a elite and talented.

For those of you with short memories - Smyth coached the U12 program for a lot of years. Coach Cotter had the vision to improve the program and talks about the critical role Smyth played in this.

Look at the kids who Smyth has coached multiple times - State Players, D League/SEABL players and College Grads.
Latrentis - maybe you should ask these people how they feel about Smyth. I know the Camps and State squads I have has involvement with, the players have so much respect for the guy.

His record is or probably is without peer at Knox - Club Championship, 2 VC Titles, 3 Classic Titles, multiple Classic/VC finals appearances.

Latrentis - and you say he can't/shouldn't coach juniors!!

For years now many clubs have tried to poach Smyth away from Knox - but he remains loyal. My club would take him on in a heartbeat.

Latrentis - what is your agenda? Facts speak for themselves. I know it, the basketball coaching fraternity know it, the players he has coached at State know it. And I'm sure the majority of kids he has coached over the years at Knox know it.

Maybe it is time for you to reconsider your position at Knox. I know at my club, people like you are shown the door swiftly. Please if you do decide to change clubs change your attitude because basketball needs less of your type.

Reply #419314 | Report this post

Years ago

VC coach when did I say he can't coach Juniors??? Yes he has coached SEABL players, state players etc but there were others who helped develop those players before he got them.
What is my agenda?? Do I need an agenda to post on this forum? You are very defensive on this topic...hmm wonder why? What is my type by the way VC coach? I was just commenting on this topic as I have close friends involved, I never said Smyth was a bad coach, you decided that by reading my post. People like me should be shown the door? You know nothing about me...Maybe people like you shouldn't run your mouth on this forum.
Would hate to see your reaction if anyone posted something about you as a coach you on here!!

Reply #419321 | Report this post

Years ago

Latrentis - you said 14/1 coaches should have 16/1s?? That players left from U14s starting five when they moved to 16s. What else are you saying other than Smyth should have been moved aside for Crotty.

Anyway that is not the point - maybe I am defensive - not for Tony, he's big enough to defend himself. I am defending volunteer coaches who are doing a great job.

Tony coached U12s for a very long period - some would say to the detriment of his ambitions to coach higher. The kids coming through 16's now are his legacy from the days in U12s. I've heard Cotter say that Smyth has never received the allocades he deserves for developing kids at the base level.

You seem to have missed a lot of the points I've raised - not surprisingly because these facts don't suit your agenda.

You are right, I have run off at the mouth a bit. But only to defend coaches like Smyth. Without his type, basketball would suffer. I again repeat his loyalty, commitment, self development and record speak for themselves. The Knox players I've come across in my role(s) and there are plenty of them have nothing but respect for the guy.

I implore you Latrentis to cease your destructive comments as well. What about taking your concerns through appropriate channels - forums are a gutless way of attacking good innocent people whom should not have to wear this unfounded criticism.

Your right Latrentis, I don't know you. But I do not like how you have gone about this deceitful way of trying to denegrate the character of this coach.

You are good at giving advice - how about you have the courage to stay away from making adverse comments about good people. If you can't do that - then stop being a coward and tell people who you are!!

Reply #419335 | Report this post

knox parent  
Years ago

Latrentis - what a disgrace.

VC Coach - most parents at Knox understand and appreciate the work Tony does for our boys. I can tell you Tony has coached both of my boys for many seasons and they are better players and young men because of his tutelage.

Latrentis - agenda or not - keep on trekking!!

Reply #419336 | Report this post

keen raider  
Years ago

Iagree latrentis you should get off this forum and try and be a positive influence around Knox. I have kids in the program too. And I think you are speaking for the silent backstabbing minority.

This is a great club - leave it if you don't like a coach. But don't bag volunteers who give so willingly of their time.

Reply #419347 | Report this post

anon 11  
Years ago

@ Anonymous
Clearly you have an agenda for starting this thread!! What a joke you are, who leaves a club because they don't want to listen to parents "crap"? Players & coaches change clubs for many different reasons and not always negative ones but this is ridiculous. What are you going to tell your kids- they have to move clubs cause Daddy/Mummy don't want to listen to "crap"? You can't be serious, someones talking crap here that's for sure.......
To say that Knox is lacking direction or heading in the wrong one is on the money (or lack of) that I'll give you but for reasons that have nothing to do with what you mention.
You say that coaches have left and will continue to leave because of parents grievances over court time etc??????????
Show me a coach at Knox who has left over parents, you wont be able to. What we have is a loss of good coaches due to the culture and the way the place has operated for years. No level playing field- whether that be for players or coaches and pretty much little respect shown to anyone that's not in the right circles. Quite frankly if a coach is going to move on because they can't cope with listening to parents then how good /strong are they anyway, that's pretty lame............... Theres talk that many more will move on but nothing to do with parents. No doubt you've got this running in an effort to discredit some to move blame away from others.... this has become common "knox" behaviour.
If you give a crap at all about the association, stand up and be counted and do something positive to help what has become a shocking situation in many aspects.
Then again maybe you should jump ship if it's getting to hard for you- why not, many have before you and from what you say are continuing to do so, ...........then again many have also been pushed!!
Every coach/player/parent has a right to be heard and quite frankly you normally find its not the ones that actually do speak up that are the most toxic and self serving it's the ones that wont put their name or face to it and are happier to cause problems behind the scenes.
I'd love to know what you're doing to help improve "your" club, pretty sure I already know the answer to that........................

Reply #419348 | Report this post

Years ago

Lol @ keen raider and Knox parent!! You all assume I am at Knox when I haven't once mentioned that I am! I love how everyone gets so defensive on here!! @ VC coach how about you tell me who you are? My name is on here, haven't changed who I am. I will say it again in case you didn't read...I never said Smyth was a bad coach, just that many of the kids were disappointed that Crotty didn't get the 16s gig as apparently he was more favoured by the boys. If that's considered criticism then maybe you guys need to take a dose of reality, or learn to chill out.
You have taken everything out of context and blown it up way more than what it is. No doubt this thread will drag out for days now so I am going to trek on! Bump>

Reply #419349 | Report this post

Years ago now you are posting on the word from others rather than an opinion of your own?

Do you propose the kids should nominate their preferred coach and the club act upon that?

Smyth is the coach, Crotty is plying his trade as an AC in the Youth League. Carroll is just playing.

I am sure the kids were disappointed Phil Jackson isn't coaching too....but maybe Phil had other things to do? Maybe Crotty had other things to do?

Maybe you should find other things to do also!

Reply #419351 | Report this post

Years ago

And one more thing Latrentis.....check the VJBL standings.

KNOX Raiders 16VC 8 wins 0 losses - top of the table, and just put away Hawthorn by 10 points who were under.

Yep, club should have made a doubt.

Reply #419353 | Report this post

Years ago

Is he a great coach or does he coach a great team?

Reply #419354 | Report this post

Years ago

Why can't it be both?

Reply #419355 | Report this post

are u serious  
Years ago

You don't need to be at Knox to have an opinion on certain coaches there this one included. Their actions and words speak for themselves. I'm from a local club and let me assure you some of your coaches at Knox have reputations far and wide in regards to how they treat kids. Knox has a real reputation for putting the welfare of their kids behind everything else. This is unfair because the whole clubs being tarnished by what is probably only a few.I heard during the week that a Knox girls coach was accused of grabbing a player with enough force to bruise her????????? Apparently a two week suspension was the outcome???????????? Again not sure if this is correct but certainly the word out there so the damage has been done either way. Any other club would have got rid of the coach end of story if this is in fact true.

Reply #419356 | Report this post

whats happening?  
Years ago

Fact: An excessive amount of players, coaches, staff members and now board members have moved on over the last few years with more to come. The majority of these have done better for themselves as a result.

I seriously doubt this is the fault of parents. If so its a poor poor reflection of the ability of those that lead the association. Again, surely the amount of departures is for bigger reasons than a few whinging parents which you'll find at any club.

Quit with laying blame at those who cant defend themselves and look at where the real problem lies.

Reply #419371 | Report this post

Years ago

Your missing the point here. The problem is that the admin of the junior raiders is that soft they are allowing parent groups to run their own agendas and the coaches aren't supported and are sick of it. If these coaches leave as I have been told will be the case then I will taking my kids out because its a shit fight down there with poor admin and a decreasing level of coaching!

Reply #419401 | Report this post

not happy  
Years ago

@ Anonymous- Well done to you. You've managed to have more dirty laundry aired and fuelled attacks on individuals. As if we need this right now at Knox. Maybe next time you could direct your issues to the appropriate people which you would have done if your "concerns" were real.

Reply #419458 | Report this post

Years ago

Latrentis - for a person not involved at Knox you have a lot to say about smyth/crotty and player's feelings towards them. I think you are lying about your relationship with the club.
Smyth coached the current batch of 16s in 12s and 16s. Crotty in 14s.
My feedback from players parents and coaches at Knox is both coaches are highly valued and respected. Smyths record is clearly better than crottys at this stage.Crotty is developing nicely but not in the same league as smyth yet.
As VC coach clearly articulates and many others support him Smyth clearly is doing a sensational job and hence deserves to retain the 16/1 role.
Latrentis - your only justification for replacing smyth is based pure on popularity. Your have no credibility. As mentioned before stop hiding and come and explain your issues with.

Keep on trekking.

Reply #419499 | Report this post

Years ago

To OP. The best thing we ever did was leave Knox. Too many problems there. If there were a famine I think some of the parents there would eat each other alive!! Very bad experience for us at Knox.
Best of luck if you do decide to move clubs, most of the parents you are having issues with will never change.

Reply #419507 | Report this post

Years ago

Hey Latrentis. Noticably quiet or severely embarassed? Hopefully you have learnt a lesson. Attacking good people with BS excuses has exposed you for what you are. I'm ok with you speaking up but through correct channels. Not the gutless weak manner you've shown on this forum. Most honorable people would apologize to the innocent people you've offended. But I'm not holding my breath. ......

Reply #419615 | Report this post

Red 88  
Years ago

Message to are u serious

Coach who alledgly grabbed and bruised 2 girls has been sacked from Knox and will never coach there again.
Knox has some Great Coaches, Players and Parents. Every association goes through rough times it is now Knox's turn. Would rather be in an unsettled Knox than any other Association. To all other associations lookout Knox is back and will take the mantle as the numer 1 association again.

Reply #423491 | Report this post

Years ago

would that the 18/1 G coach ?

Reply #423512 | Report this post

Years ago

are u serious and Red88 - get the facts right.the coach was sacked but then re-instated the next day because a witness retracted their statement the next day.However coach was suspended for 2 weeks but then interim DOC succumbed to pressure from 2 feral families who made threats to leave should he coach again.Coach has had no proper opportunity to defend himself until NOW.The TRUTH will come out SOON!!
THen we will see what biased uninformed crap you put on this forum? The talk around Knox is that the coaches are not getting enough support from the administration and many are talking about leaving,taking a season off or not coaching while a certain person is on the Board - probably a friend of yours are u serious and Red 88.
And by the way this person was responsible for sacking the entire Junior Raiders Committee all GOOD VOLUNTEERS and is trying to replace them with some of her "Friends" - KEEP ON TREKKING>

Reply #425971 | Report this post

ivar biggen  
Years ago

anon11 - Ian Firth left as u/12-1 boys coach because of a parent.

Reply #425981 | Report this post

Years ago

Yeah Red88 get your facts right the coach was/has not been sacked he was only stood down for 2 weeks. He was offered an assistant coaches position for the rest of this season but told interim DOC to "stick" it! Fair enough!!
Interim DOC was too close to the other parties ( mates played together,1 player - mentor?,all people from same domestic club!!
) Interim DOC should have stepped aside and let someone more removed from major individuals being investigated investigate it. He and ex chairperson handled case appallingly and has caused a lot of angst among other coaches and parents and members.
If they had suspended him for life as you (incorrectly) stated they would be doing him a big favor - why would he want to stay at Knox after the way they have treated him? Keep on trekking!!

Reply #426178 | Report this post

Years ago

So HughJ and frontbum which one of you is called Jon?

Reply #427518 | Report this post

hugh j  
Years ago

You will have to work that out Trev.

Reply #427827 | Report this post

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