Pallas
Years ago

Collingwood Allstars Big V Entry 2014

This club really should be looking at entering the Big V next year. Way ahead of the likes of Oakleigh...

They are on top of the MMBL ladder UNDEFEATED and looking rather strong.


given the increased population density in and close to the city I think there should be another team. Look at some suburbs that are very close to each other sharing a much smaller population.

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Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

I tihnk there Junior teams play domestic comp in the EDJBA and a few VJBL teams but think they might need a better base of junior first...that said hasn't stopped alot of other clubs from having a Big V team with virtually no juniors

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Pallas  
Years ago


hear what you are saying Tiger Watcher.

However they have more VJBL teams than the following associations;
Altona
Chelsea
Coburg
Corio Bay
Craigieburn
Geelong
Keysborough
LaTrobe
Melton
Hume City
Pakenham
Southern Pen
Melbourne Uni (who do not have any)

Of Those associations All of them have played in Big V finals in the last 3 years with the exception of Pakenham who are on top of the ladder.

It can be done if the right people are there. The thing is they will go backwards from here if there is no senior program for players to aim for.

I hope they can make it happen.

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HO  
Years ago

Pallas, only one of those it at championship level (12 Girls) and only one at League One level (this time 12 Boys).

16 Boys at VJL4 and 18 Boys below that level does not bode well for the future.

Just so I am consistent, I would think the league would have a lot of work to do to justify a future for this team in BigV.

Collingwood look like a cub model program rather than an association model program.

This was the problem with the admission of CB to championship directly, that it had nothing underpinning it to guarantee a home-bred future. CB had every right to be in the league, certainly ahead of what Collingwood have, but not direct to championship.

Unfortunately, the current management's obsession with quantity, not quality, means you will certainly be admitted!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

And the MMBL is a rubbish league. Glorified domestic

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Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Your right a number of smaller associations/clubs are in the Big V...That said Collingwood should just keep trying to build there junior team numbers so they have a consistant flow of kids from VJBL then into MMBL into Big V....i know they have a number of teams in the EDJBA but i think you require more teams in the VJBL.

But its all aboutthe numbers for Big V not the quality of play!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Where would they play?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Doesnt Oakleigh have a number of teams in championship already?

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Pallas  
Years ago

If yo look at the VJBL website they have 21 teams. That is not the EDJBA or anyother comp but VJBL.

I am not involved with collingwood but can see that they should certainly be looking at that as an option for their players to progress.

Big V d2m is not beyond them. Is that why we dont have lower Big V divisions so that we can give smaller clubs an opportunity to play some level of senior rep basketball. This is about a community having a team not about it being super elite. Not every association has the capacity to play SCM or SEABL. Some dont even want to play D1.

However if they are able to play atsome level and have their juniors come down and see the people that may coach them on a friday night playing over the weekend with a fun atmosphere. Is that not important??

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HO  
Years ago

Pallas, I am not down on Collingwood.

However, there is VJBL and there is VJBL. You raised the numbers equation about Collingwood in that league.

However, 21 teams in VJBL, almost all of them at fourth division or lower in that league does not point to longer term success at senior level because the talent pool gets sharper in senior basketball simply because players have longer careers at senior levels

There are 10000 VJBL players and I reckon probably 1500 in BigV. If Collingwood was consistently having teams compete at VJBL 1 or occasionally in championship, then I think there is a "future" debate worth having. I think you will find most of the teams you have drawn comparison to above have teams generally at better levels than Collingwood at VJBL.

I think Collingwood is a good example of the lack of structure that currently exists in Victorian Basketball, where CBL and MMBL are not really providing an entree to BigV, but should be. That has been debated here before.

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menu man  
Years ago

entree ? lol

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anon  
Years ago

Oakleigh were told when they were rejected from the Big V to put a team into MMBL first, and also enter the Big V tournament which they did. Will be interesting to see whether they it 3rd time lucky when they apply for 2014?

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VP  
Years ago

I remember Pakenham were dominating MMBL before they were admitted into the Big V under Danny Adamson but its taken 3-4 seasons and some serious recruiting to be where they are this year.

So you shouldn't think that just because your a strong team in MMBL your going to be competitive in the Big V.

And the support structures required for Big V Club are much greater than in the MMBL and the finances to run a Club in the Big V are signifcantly higher.

Oakleigh are likely to be admitted to Big V in 2014 with Bob Mann running the show having been in the League before with McKinnon for at least 15 years I believe.

I wish the Allstars all the best but I think it will be 2-3 years before they would expect to be admitted into the Big V.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Entering BigV for the first time "should" be a progressional decision the club makes as it matures in the older age groups to support further pathways for your graduating juniors once they pass through U18's/20's, but you have to have quality juniors in your system first to support such a the venture.

Logic would have them entering YL2 teams first and see if they can grow/progress that team into a open Division.

Of coarse that kind of logic wont play any part in it, just like the Corio Bay situation.

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HO  
Years ago

#419573

Good Call. Mostly.

The YL thing is a bit different in the BigV. its effectively a reserve grade, so you have to have a Divisional team before you have a YL team.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I still think a YL team can be a progressional Team and your only senior team, once they mature and develop they can move that group into a Div and replace them with follow through juniors..

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HO  
Years ago

and that might be logical, but its not how the BigV works it.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I reckon once they Get into the Big V people will get on board. They probably wont be up there for a few years but they need to take the plunge.

Oakliegh has only been around for a few years. I'd expect collingwood to be much more stable than Oakliegh

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Years ago

Do you think the Big V could creat a 3rd division that would be between MMBL and the current D2.

The gap between MMBL and Big V could continue to grow and is not good for the sport in Victoria.

I know people will probably bag the idea and sya their usual crap like D2 is a domestic with stats etc.. But i am looking at what we could offer the smaller clubs at the end of the day it is more people involved in the sport we all love.

Think about it you could then allow clubs like Oakleigh, Collingwood, perhaps Horsham comeback, maybe we would see Warragual return. There are also clubs like Wallan, Bellarine Peninsula who will probably look at entering in the not to distance future and there are also a few CBL clubs that should do what Sheparton did and step up.

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Years ago

Just a little typo;
allow clubs like Oakleigh, Collingwood, perhaps Horsham comeback,

should have read;
allow clubs like Oakleigh, Collingwood in and perhaps Horsham comeback,

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Anonymous  
Years ago

All news out of Horsham.. They should be back next year!
With the news of Aaron Bruce looking to retire from NBL.. chance of helping his hometown out?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

WOW thats massive. That would mean they would need to be into D1 or maybe SCM

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Dane Suttle  
Years ago

Collingwood faces a number of problems as a club as it grows in size and playing standard. Only one VC rep team this year, but would have been at least three, if players weren't enticed to move to bigger clubs [read "poached"].The MMBL team has had great success over a few years, all with home developed players. Having a Big V team would encourage Collingwoods best players to continue to move through the ranks, not only strengthening every age group, but also adding more depth to the coaching ranks. Collingwood draws on a unique demographic, Carlton, Clifton Hill, Northcote, Ivanhoe etc, along with a huge number of talented athletes from the local community.
Having representation in both Big V mens and womens competitions is great carrot to dangle in front of the club and needs to happen in the future.

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HO  
Years ago

Dane, where would a Collingwood BigV team play?

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Dane Suttle  
Years ago

Venue is a real problem. They would have to share an existing venue, although finding one with the correct "fit' is problematic.
The is a major push by the club to have stadium built with a minimum 4 courts and obviously if this is done then the venue sorts itself out.

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G  
Years ago

IMO dont stress about a Venue. Over the years Clubs ahve shared venues with success.

If the club is good enough to go Big V, then they should. Worry about venue once you know if you have something to put on the floor

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HO  
Years ago

But G, that is another of the BigV's problems at the moment. It has in more recent years allowed clubs to play in sub standard venues.

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G  
Years ago

I hear what you are saying but in all respect we are talking about D2 yeah? If it was SCM then thats different but for the lower levels I dont see an issue. In other states they play their top tier state basketball (non SEABL) in venues that are way below the worst of the Big V. I think Basketball would be the winner.

Also correct me if I am wron g but MSAC is not to far away and is not used by any other Big V or SEABL team...

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HO  
Years ago

G, which is (sort of) fine until the team wants to progress and then gets promoted.

I have no idea where Collingwood might play, but the league cannot continually allow its standards to drop. A number of years back that started ruling out venues - like where Blackburn and McKinnon used to play.

Sherbrooke's old venue at Monbulk was fine off court but not appropriate on court for example. MSAC

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HO  
Years ago

G, which is (sort of) fine until the team wants to progress and then gets promoted.

I have no idea where Collingwood might play, but the league cannot continually allow its standards to drop. A number of years back that started ruling out venues - like where Blackburn and McKinnon used to play.

Sherbrooke's old venue at Monbulk was fine off court but not appropriate on court for example. MSAC would be fine but is very expensive as I understand.

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Taxman  
Years ago

In order to get a new venue they need to grow.
to grow they need to be in Big V.

Cheiken or egg issue

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HO  
Years ago

Disagree Taxman. Venue build should be based on domestic demand, not on elite needs. If Collingwood were a booming domestic program, then there is a case for a new 3-4 court venue, but in land cramped inner city melbourne, that might be tough to deliver.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Kids who play rep ball play doemstic at that association. Then Domestic grows as rep ball grows.

If the rep program dies down due to players leaving for other associations cos there is no path way through to senior basketball then I guess the 2 are conected

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BB  
Years ago

They could use Melbourne Girls College which is one of their venues on a Friday night. Simply put the team bench and scoretable opposite where all the seating is. Similar set-up to Whittlesea at Mill Park just with a smaller grand stand. Much similar to the Maccabi set-up at Bialik College as well.

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Jack  
Years ago

There are a number of venue options for Collingwood if they want to take the plunge into Big V. opportunity for some local schools and the association to make something happen.

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Dane Suttle  
Years ago

HO, Collingwood does have a booming domestic program, not sure of the numbers but would love to see how many teams entered in EDJBA compared with 5-6 years ago. When my daughter started as an 8 year old[3 years ago], she was selected in the under 11#2 side as there was no younger girls at the club. The club has 4 under 9 teams this season and 8 under 11. Huge growth. The clubs VJBL program is getting stronger and bigger and I believe lack of court space is the biggest problem.

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HO  
Years ago

Well Dane, that is great news and I wish you luck getting new courts!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Dane,So has they league been positive to Collingwood entering or have they not been too keen?

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Dane Suttle  
Years ago

not sure #420597, I'm not a committee member, just a parent who loves basketball, so not privy to any discussions.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Well good luck with it. I hope the Big V sees sense and uts your club in. I know it will be tough for the first year or 2 but it is defdinitely worth it as it will help your club grow.

Hope it happens.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

From what I have heard I think that Collingwood has what it takes to be a long term Big V club.

Credit to them and all their hard work.

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Ariel  
Years ago

Simply put, either develop a Big V program or develop players to go and play elsewhere.

There is no point having a VJBL program unless it has some sort of pathway. Either at the same club or elsewhere.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Hope they get in

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If you are comparing VJBL program between Collingwood and Oakleigh, quite simply there is no comparison.

Oakleigh have had thee VC teams in their juniors over the past three years and look a good chance to do so in the U16's and U18's this year.

They have some quality and depth in their junior program coming through that Collingwood simply doesn't have.

Another factor in their admission is their state of the art venue at GESAC. Home games there will see big crowds in attendance, especially if Oakleigh get off to a good start.

MMBL isn't a good starting point to judge a future BIG V team, it's what you have coming through your junior program. Oakleigh's MMBL team for instance bears no resemblence to their BIG V squad.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If you are comparing VJBL programs between Collingwood and Oakleigh, quite simply there is no comparison.

Oakleigh have had three VC teams in their juniors over the past three years and look a good chance to do so in the U16's and U18's this year.

They have some quality and depth in their junior program coming through that Collingwood simply doesn't have.

Another factor in their admission is their state of the art venue at GESAC. Home games there will see big crowds in attendance, especially if Oakleigh get off to a good start.

MMBL isn't a good starting point to judge a future BIG V team, it's what you have coming through your junior program. Oakleigh's MMBL team for instance bears no resemblance to their BIG V squad.

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