Pioneers definitely looked ugly in that first half last night. Maybe not working hard enough to do the simple things right. But their home record stands at 5-1 and won't lose too many games at home I don't think. Just need to keep on keeping! Lets Go Pioneers!

Tough to beat but eminantly beatable. Talk about a bob each way!

Albury/Wodonga again found a way to lose. Tied at the half, Albury went on a run in the third to take a 13 point lead at one stage but let Frankston right back into the game.

Will Walker was just about unstoppable at times. Hitting shots from everywhere with every shot hitting nothing but net.

Jermel Jenkins nearly recorded a triple double with 17 points, 11 assists and 8 rebounds but didn't have a great shooting night.

The Bandits are surprisingly still in touch with the top four but they need to get on a roll soon.

Many teams seem to live or die based on the performance of 1 or 2 players, mostly their imports. That's why teams like Geelong, Mt Gambier & Bendigo are impressive... they seem to have more depth to take up the slack if 1 or 2 players are not firing on the night.

AJ, I think Bandits got out to a big lead with McInnes off the court for Frankston then he came back on & it was down to a 3 point margin at the final break.

Miners losing to Dandenong in double OT after being up by 18 at 3/4 time would have to rate as the choke of the round though. That would hurt.

AJ what did you think of Walker?

@anonymous- Jenkins' passing is really impressive. He's a pure point guard where Vann was a shooting guard trying to play the point.

Jenkins has had one off shooting night where Vann was shooting 34% for the season. He also averaged less than three assists per game as the starting point guard.

@Happy Days- Walker shot the lights out. He didn't do a lot of anything else (4 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals)but he hit some huge shots to keep them in the game.

Walker was the difference. He hit three 3's in the last three minutes of the third quarter and all of a sudden it was 73-70 at three quarter time.

The Bandits weren't playing bad defense, he was just hitting shots in the defenders face.

I also thought the Bandits went away from what was working for them in the third. When they built their lead it was Jenkins driving and dishing under the basket. All of a sudden they all started shooting jump shots and the making it easy for the Frankston defense.

My thoughts on Round 11 here - http://andthefoul.net/archives/6177

Seeing A/W getting a lot of negative discussion this year, rightly so perhaps given they won the championship and expectations rose, but for teams like them and in there situation you always need to temper this given they are up against it every week from an even playing field standpoint...It seems to be a few on this blog site wanting to kick them pretty hard whilst they are travelling poorly right now and thats cool but not entirely fair.

The game on the weekend and for that matter the prior week agst Hobart, they simply got beat by individual shooting brillance (George/Gregg/Polk)and the same happened agst Canberra (Dowdell/Joyce) at home as well and Kilsyth (Kusnyer/Musunda)on the road.

This happens....and for some reason the luck they had last year also has turned 360 this season as it was always likely to do, when you lose your key guy, got a bad import, guys are getting injured and opposition teams are going off from the 3 pt line with a hand up it's pretty tuff on the defence and confidence. Apparently Walker shot the lights out in bursts on Saturday and from deep!!, as did Witherden on a couple of big 3's. In saying that though it seems the players right now aren't quite on the same page defensively especially with their communication, rotations and playing team defence...they are definately 10% off here now and its causing these losses no doubt, couple of breaks agst the teams mentioned from a shooting standpoint and they themselves shoot better across the year and they are possibly 7-7, so I don't think some of the calls on game plan and the like is anywhere near the mark...if anything the game style is great to watch and won them a title less than 12 mths ago...lots of teams would take that I would think...and correct me if I am wrong but most teams (Geelong/MtGam/Bend/Canberra/Brisbane/Sandy/Kilsyth)tried to go with a import or NBL standard guard/PG this year on the back of perhaps Albury's structure and the success it brought and PNR has turned into the most used offensive option. It's a guards league now for sure!! (CJ/Ferguson/Deba/Jenkins/Griffin/Mercer/Kenny/McDonald/Daly/Richard et al)all killing it.

Vann for Ferguson didn't work for A/W but at least they made a tuff call, realised they made a mistake and went with Jenkins who looks legit (21 ass v 3 To's in last 2 games)and they get a feel for him for 2014 as well...

I thought MtGambier doing the same last year with their changing of imports helped set a tone for their season this year..they want results...not just going through the motions.

The last 2 games A/W have played have been from what I am told from those in direct know, some of the better style of basketball you would want to watch at this level and free flowing and entertaining (NBL take note), albeit the results haven't gone their way. I think the average fan and knowledgable basketball person in Albury who has watched their 4 games since the changes can see they are playing the style of game that won them the Chip last year, but the subtle difference is their D is just not quite their right now..when it has been they have won this year.

I dont think also that their aussies have had the same mentaility as 2012, perhaps the target on the back and expectations have been hard to live with and some complacency did set in, but I hope they can finish the year strong and re-group and come again in 2014 with the same sort of team. I like seeing new teams pop up, and not just the big financial clubs doing it every year which is being shown again in Bendigo/Geelong cases.

Love the SEABL, great league, very even, some great talent and is being played at a entertaining and high level ...look forward to seeing some more games and more players in the NBL next season hopefully.

Tip: Deba George/McFarlin/Ferguson/Burdon/Polk all possibly NBL bound.

"and correct me if I am wrong but most teams (Geelong/MtGam/Bend/Canberra/Brisbane/Sandy/Kilsyth)tried to go with a import or NBL standard guard/PG this year on the back of perhaps Albury's structure and the success it brought and PNR has turned into the most used offensive option."

You're wrong.

I think one of the biggest issues with the Bandits is their depth. Unfortunately that's the disadvantage some of the regional teams face. I think Brad needs to show a bit more faith in some of his bench players and give them the chance to develop.

Darcy Harding played for Australia at under 17 or under 19 level but is lucky to see the floor for two or three minutes per game. He's got size and he's obviously got talent but Brad seems to have no faith in him whatsoever.

The same goes for Jack Duck. Duck is a bit inconsistent but he has a lot more upside than Matt DeKoyer or Mick Watson, he just needs an opportunity to develop.

With the playoffs starting to slip out of reach I think the time is going to come where he needs to start looking to next year and work out where the future lies.

Re-signing Jenkins has to be a major priority but developing bench players is just as important.

Pretty sure the main reason jazz left was $$$$

Clubs run on budgets and sometimes you just simply can't blow the budget to keep 1 player at the expense of 3 other guys!

All that has ever been said about Jazz leaving was to do with the extra cash Bendigo could throw at him. It's not hard to imagine this being the main reason as Bendigo have a history of paying big for imports. This year they are paying way above min for both.

To be honest, I don't think any team other than Bendigo has tried to have a similar look to Albury last season... Other than Albury.

The assessments on Albury are pretty harsh and a reflection of a misconception that they were the best team in the SEABL last year. Yes, they won the playoffs and that was an outstanding little run. On the season they were not in the top 4 teams and you could argue they weren't in top 8 teams, also remember where they were coming from, they are not from winning program's and it takes time to develop a strong club for the long term. Cut brad some slack, he got the most out of them last year, this year he is going through some growing pains. They should be back in the hunt in 2014.

I think everyone would agree that the Bandits over achieved last year and the expectations were always going to be higher this year as a result.

Being a long time Bandits supporter I think the other thing that really stands out to me this year is just how even the competition is. I've never seen so many good teams. There just isn't an easy game anymore.

I also don't think it's fair for people to be taking shots at Brad. Any club that loses one import to injury and has another that doesn't work out is going to struggle. You start with a team that doesn't have much depth and then you take out their two imports, of course they're going to struggle.

I think Brad's done a good job with what he's got. You've also got to remember he's a second year coach. I think they need stability with their imports and a big improvement from a couple of their young guys and I think the future looks pretty bright.

With what I've seen from Jenkins so far I don't think people will be talking about the loss of Jazz for much longer. Jazz was a great player but I think Jenkins is going to be just as good.

Well, entering this thread, as a league watcher and ex player in the league I just wonder if the same critique will be said about some of the other teams right now, I haven't seen a thread/comments on the struggling Knox/Kilsyth/NWTas..et al

The Bandits are certainly creating some chatter??..wonder whom they upset, oh thats right, they won the championship they weren't and aren't supposed to win in the SEABL...lol..and for the Albury locals commenting here I would just be happy they even won one to start after the last few years!! - the 36ers under Marty never won a title so poor comparisons on that front!

I see a bit of feedback in terms of the coach not taking any of the blame (publically), fair call but off base IMO and I agree with posters AJ and Seablfan.

I think if we are not internal to their team how would we know, but I would think its ridiculous and unknowledgable to think any coach in SEABL wouldn't definately be taking ownership and the head on approach to their teams issues/play as the season goes along...Do we want him to say its all his fault publically and all is well for those whom need to hear this from him..lol..doesn't work that way and won't change a coaches approach Blaming the coach too is normal though of course as it's his ship to guide..but calling him out for not saying it is his fault is off the mark and who cares if he does - I beleive he would be working hard and if he isn't he wouldn't be the coach for much longer. This happens in every sporting league and will for eternity. A few axes being ground perhaps here??

Also..cant say I have seen any of the team 'leaders' come out and put their hands up publically at least for their poor performances to date, so it goes both ways.

I dont know Brad personally but played against him and have found him to be a straight shooter, tough mentally from what I know and have seen and read on SEABL site, knows the game really well and is respected and has done well for the club in lifting their performances and profile given everyone is giving their two cents worth on them. No doubt like all coaches he is doing his best with what they have and what teams go through each year. He must be able to coach and is only in his second year, thats a given or they would never have got through last years stretch - he prepped, guided and coached them nicely from what I have seen and no doubt he will be analysing everything more than ever now.

Also taking into account all the feedback around their bench depth i am reading, I agree with AJ that they have some nice pieces in Duck/Harding but need them to grow up quickly in this league and get some consistency, they will I am sure and Brad is backing Duck in already, but players have to earn some clock too from a coach. Having a healthy Momo/Jenkins combo perhaps from day 1 plus some continuity things can bounce back quickly..seen it a million times with squads in SEABL/NBL. Guys like Hollis and Opacic are solid players but also have real weaknesses to work on but outside of that they are no Geelong/MtGamb in terms of depth...so mid table each year with this group and pushing playoffs would be a great return.

Their local talent too isn't at SEABL level past number 8-9 right now...but you only need a solid 7 as they showed last year and as are some teams this year. I also dont see the other better teams playing all their kids as well in crunch time minutes, Dandy do it the best probably and at least Albury have local kids in their squad which is good..same cant be said for every team in the league. Like every team the locals in each need to step up and deliver and work on their games over the course of a few seasons in preseason and practice and those whom do in each team generally make it in the rotation at some point and those who dont get moved on or passed by.

I agree though as well that W's is what it is about for teams in the league especially regionally as it should be given sponsors and fans want to see competitive teams and the run the bandits had last year with attendances apparently rising and sponsors coming in shows this and can make or break a club...Development is important too but should never come at the cost of W's in semi pro leagues where financial viability is the key first and foremost or the kids wont have a team to play for!! This is why they were no doubt struggling so much previously as no recruits wanted to play for them, fans come watch or fork out the hard earned.

Let's also talk about the Raiders??..what is going on there? They don't have the excuses Albury does for mind around cash and available resources but have nosed dived harder than the Bandits given they are a perenial power club with the Kilsyth's/Geelong's of the league..

What's the take on them...mine is they held onto their core for a season to long..they need a complete player rebuild in 2014 from top to bottom, and will quickly climb again.

If AW can resign Jenkins and Momo for next season they will be fine.If Jazz left for more money so be it.Its his livelyhood and good on AW for sticking to there budget.Only spend what you can afford.

Raiders would have to rate as the underachievers of the league right now for sure. Canberra would also be asking questions I expect after dusting off the chequebook to buy in some fresh talent but still finding themselves at the bottom of the table. The Bandits have at least the excuse of losing Momo and a poor selection to replace Jazz and while their players might not be as great as others in the league, most have a shiny championship medal to silence their critics, as does the coach to go with his COTY award.

I think the issue these teams have is in managing expectations and some are their own worst enemy on that front in constantly talking up their chances. That's why they need to drag out a never-ending string of excuses when they fail to deliver on the expectations they create.

I have noticed those beating the jungle drums about Frankston early on in the year have gone quiet. Maybe the dog is finally wagging the tail at the club by the bay. Knox are just going through a downturn. Inevitable after a period of success with core group. What is exciting for the league is resurgence of Mt Gambier but Pioneers may find the playoffs a challenge without NBL signed players available due to preseason commitments. For mine Hobart to win the South. Geelong easily wins the East. Grand Final will be a barn burner. Chargers by a nose.

I hadn't factored in Mt Gambier losing their NBL players and that would definitely put Hobart in the box seat to win the south conference but I'm not so sure they have the depth to beat Geelong. Yes, the Bandits won it last year with probably even less depth but I still think Geelong will have too much for the Chargers they way both teams are shaping up right now. Losing Dann won't help their chances either.

And Geelong have beaten Hobart on their home court, but then went on to beat NWT the next night... what's your point?

Pioneers & Hobart the best two teams currently in the Soth however if they can get healthly i wouldn't rule out Nunawading...that said staying healthly for them is an issue

Wallace had his chance in 2010 but it didn't work out. I feel Poor import selection has been a big issue. They may be great blokes but can they help you win?

I love the "Team X beat Team Y" arguments. Have people forgotten that one of the Bandit's few wins this season was against Geelong?

& Tiger Watcher, another was Nunawading ;)