Seablfan
Years ago

SEABL round 13

Another interesting round!

Hard to predict winners that's for sure.

Are Bendigo the best team to ever play in the SEABL. Destroyed Geelong last night, 14 game winning streak. Two best imports in the league, plus Garlepp as good as an import.

What has happened to Dandenong?

Can Albury make a late run to defend title?

Topic #31981 | Report this topic


Bear  
Years ago

Get a grip, 10 point win and 14 in a row is good for Bendigo and they will be hard to beat, but you may have exaggerated slightly here...

Reply #424407 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bear, 14 in a row is the Braves equal best streak ever. Thats a great achievement and no exaggeration. A 10 point win over the Supercats and being such a bragging rights game is also a great effort as well.
Whats the go with Knox? Bandits redeem themselves last night as well. The fat lady's clearing her throat for them however.
Next weekend will be a test for the Hobart Chargers. 3 on the road with their first against the Pioneers at the Ice House.

Reply #424414 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

'The best team to ever play SEABL'

That statement or comment, whatever, IMO is a bit over the top!

Reply #424415 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Not denying the Braves are travelling very well indeed... Good for them, good for the league. Best ever, maybe not yet?

Reply #424416 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

To answer the question in the OP - no Bendigo isn't the best ever team to play SEABL. There starting 5 is damn good, but they rely heavily on there starting 5. Last night against Geelong, all points were scored by their starting 5, out of the 82 attempted shots only 1 attempt came from the bench and that isn't good. They only used 3 from their bench last night with non of those 3 playing 8 minutes, yet from their starters, with Hogan playing just over 29mins, he was their only starter to play less than 35mins.
What happens to Bendigo if one of their starters goes down and they lose them for any period of time, do they have the depth to cover for them or will they be found out?
Good win last night and good luck to them for the rest of the season, but a 10pt win on your home court doesn't mean you destroyed the opposition.

Reply #424417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting observation about the Bendigo bench. The Bandits had similar problems last year with the bench getting very little burn after the 7th man.

Reply #424419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Chargers and Thunder the same in the last few weeks almost zero minutes off the bench. Obviously not looking past August.

Reply #424439 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"That back-court (Ferguson) with Kevin Probert is the best in the league, not only that, we've got the best combination frontcourt as well (McFarlin and Garlepp) and Hoges...when you need someone to hit a big shot he’s the man"

Ben Harvey.

Keeping a lid on it.

Reply #424446 | Report this post


D4444  
Years ago

If you can keep your starting 5 fit then there is no reason to play your bench for extended minutes. Sure it might not be the best for developing younger guys or retaining fringe players long term but if it's about winning then keeping the best 5 players on the court for as long as you can is likely the best option for teams that lack depth.

Reply #424448 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Fine line between the benchies and the starters. PLay them and lose or don't. Success of failure. Bums on seats or broke.

Reply #424452 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Yup, and then there are these potential issues to consider:

1. How happy are players 6-12 going to be when they know they will not play every week?

2. How prepared will your team be when an injury or foul-out occurs to one or two of the magnificent 5?

3. Where does plan 'B' come from when plan '5' isn't happening?

4. Stars win games, depth win championships - Even the Heat had to adjust when LeBron cam over, it took a season and some additions/changes in attitude to win the competition!

Winning by using imports and quick fix tactics is fine, but a flash in the pan one year and no longer term development plan could hurt down the track IMO.

Proof will be in the finals, of course, just sayin' there is two sides to it...

Reply #424455 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The benchies know their role when they commit to a season. The aren't any many clubs that play down to the number 12 spot. Accepting their roles is part of the training that goes into any team, basketball or not. The opportunity arises and they shine. That's why they do it. Remembering those that are starting now more than likely went through the exact same scenario when they were benchies.
There are stars and then there are also the support players that will never truly shine and become that star. Everyone need good benchies and the important job they undertake.

Reply #424463 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

"Stars win games, depth win championships" - this is true, but Geelong has been hailed all year as the team with greatest depth - and yet they came up short against a team that only effectively used their starters. Seb Loader, Ash Cannan and Liam McInerny all got into foul trouble. It was a great game between two very tough teams - and some costly mistakes by Geelong in the final minutes allowed Bendigo to come away with the win. The most unfortunate thing for Geelong is that the Braves managed to win by more than 5 points - thus having the head to head edge over the Supercats should both teams finish on the same record come finals time.

Reply #424464 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

My full wrap of the round up now at AndTheFoul.net for anyone interested http://andthefoul.net/archives/6522

Reply #424465 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Spot on Beth.I am sure if they played agaon the result may be the opposte. So long as the Braves stay fit they might manage to win it ALL.

Reply #424518 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

I hope the Geelong - Bendigo thing doesn't highlight the inherent stupidity of the SEABL conference system.

The conferences are redundant. Everyone plays each other twice anyway. What do they achieve?

What they might achieve this year is that what appears to be the best two teams will not play each other in the final. (all due respect to Gambier, Hobart etc..)

Reply #424523 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I guess you dont know a lot about seabl then HO.

Reply #424532 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Have to agree, the conference system isn't required if everyone plays everyone twice.

Reply #424535 | Report this post


D4444  
Years ago

I think a single conference with the top 8 teams making the playoffs would be a better system.

Reply #424544 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#424532

Based on what i have written, let me know what I don't know....

Reply #424625 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

You know a fair bit HO, I tend to agree with the current conference system being flawed. (That means I agree with you mate)

Why not consider conferences that can result in a mixed pool of finals where the best teams can still play off in the grand final?

Conferences if you need them during regular season, then adjust it for finals to bring the best against the best.

Even better, go with the best of 3 finals like a smaller version of the NBA (or what we see in the NBL)...

Conferences can work IMO, they just need to be better coordinated, with some more thought and maybe some common sense principles applied!

Reply #424641 | Report this post


VP  
Years ago

A good conference structure would have conference crossovers for finals so if one conference is stronger than the other it all comes out in the wash.

Probably need to do away with SEABL Conference Grand Finals.

SEABL could also improve its finals series by playing best of three in line with NBL finals structure which it should be.

Reply #424648 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The other problem with the conference system in SEABL is that they base the conferences for both the mens comp & women's comp on the strength of the mens comp and set the conferences for 2 seasons at a time.

Currently in the mens comp, the overall top 8 from both conferences is split 50/50 with 4 teams from each conference. Look at the womens side of things and the top 5 teams from the East conference are ranked 2-6 overall, so you currently have a team which will miss out on the finals due to the conference system but had they been in the South Conference they would be sitting 2nd behind Knox; so that suggests that the balance of the conferences isn't working in the womens draw.

The fact that every team plays each other twice, once at home & once away, really does do away with the need for the conference system and surely it would be better to either go to a top 8 for the finals with #1 & #2 having the first week off or go a top 6 like the women used to do before they split into 2 conferences last yr.

SEABL needs to do the right thing for both the mens & womens comps, especially when you consider the talent that does play in the womens teams, instead of at the moment making the men the focus with the womens side of things seemingly an add on.

Reply #424649 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Seabl have cross a conference final. There is every chance that Bendigo will play Geelong for their conference final.
The problem with the Seabl right now is that the system they have now has resulted from less money available. Thats why the ABA finals disappeared. The seabl imposes a restriction on all of the participating clubs to pay their own way to these extra games that everyone wants. No money. thats the way it is.

Reply #424661 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Just finished watching Geelong v Bendigo, great game, very close for the most part good to see some good NBL level guys like Herbert, Garlepp and the imports.

Just a thought should the NBL attempt to make a stronger link with the SEABL? would it help get them more community support? could they do a NBA and D-League club, where each NBL club has a SEABL club they link with, they play at different times, but maybe if your player has played more than say 20 games with your SEABL affiliate club they could get a 50% discount on there points rating, NBL clubs could get SEABL clubs to basically trial imports for them, meaning a higher level of import in the SEABL which would be a win/win, to help them get a roster spot in the NBL, clubs would be more inclined to have a crack at some of the top SEABL imports if they were 5 points instead of automatically 10, which most are probably not worth it. I think if you signed the imports i saw in this game they would end up with points ratings around 5-7 after there first NBL season, which is decent, and if you got lucky would be a 10, and would be much cheaper than some of the other guys at those points ratings atleast 1st up.

They are not all the same style of players but i think the imports in this game would be basically a similar level to a Herbert, Garlepp type so a 5 would be a fairly fair rating. If you get lucky you might get a bargain, say Jaz Fergusson gets picked up and is as a good as Deleon, or MCFarlin gets picked up and is the next Mark Davis, but you also wouldnt be relying on it, as they are only 5 points meaning it wouldnt matter if they played a back up role, which they should be atleast capable of and id assume they wouldnt demand too much in salary, you may even be able to get them for minimum first year and give them a rise if they do well the following year.

Even if you dont link NBL clubs with SEABL clubs i think guys who play in SEABL/NZ/Statelaague should receive a points discount, make it that they have to play atleast 10-20 games, Aussie rookies start as 1 pointers regardless of if they have played college or not, and imports start out as 5 point players, both would be fair and make it easier for these guys to get a gig and would likely help the SEABL/state leagues be able to attract some better players especially if they receive an increased opportunity in getting a NBL contract, which who knows could lead to anything Davis played in NZ and Redhage played in SEABL so there are some success stories of guys coming from these leagues, which really works out to be a win win all round.

player gets a shot at top league, NBL club gets a bargain player atleast for the 1st season, SEABL clubs have a good selling point in recruiting players and hence may attract better players which improves their league.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Seabl are in the process of linking with BA. Every chance that won't occur now.

Reply #424675 | Report this post


bethdavis10  
Years ago

Just weighing in on the finals topic - I would LOVE to see a best of three game series for the GF, but unfortunately it's just not logistically possible in the time frame. The league struggles to squeeze 28 games into 21 rounds, and then already has to deal with the NBL pre-season during finals time, where some SEABL teams as we've seen in the past can completely lose players from their finals campaign if the NBL teams aren't cooperative!

Reply #424683 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

It is a tight season and a heavy schedule, but couldn't three games be played over 6-7 days?

Reply #424709 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who pays for this? Not the seabl. Thats why the Natioanls stopped. Once clubs got to the nats they were expected to pay their own way.

Reply #424717 | Report this post


D4444  
Years ago

BA?

Reply #424718 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#424717

Nationals being stopped had nothing to do with SEABL not being willing to pay - more like SA and Qld/NSW.

Reply #424775 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#424661

And this is the point I was making. If Bendigo and Geelong are the best two teams, they cannot meet in the final, as they come from the same conference - in a conference structure where each team plays every team twice anyway this is just silly.

I note in this that #424532 has still not told me what i don't know.....

Reply #424778 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ho. They may meet in their own conference final. Isn't that what you want? or are you proposing that they all play in one conference and play in in the final? Huh?

Reply #424782 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#424782

I am not sure you get it. If the conferences were played out in the structure of playing all teams in your conference x 2 and the other conference x 1 then you would have enough doubt as to "premiership capacity" to justify the current finals structure.

But having two conferences, and in-conference finals before an all-league final, is completely redundant when all play everyone twice regardless of conference structure.

Lets say Geelong and Bendigo both finish 25-3 and Hobart and Mt Gambier finish in their conference say 22-6. In this instance the structure does not allow the best two teams the best advantage throughout the finals series, and the best chance of meeting each other in the all-league final.

Yes, it would be better to have one section and a final eight or final six where the proven best two teams have every chance of meeting in the all-league final.

Reply #424787 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

HO, look at the womens conferences for a current, real example of the problem with the conference set up. The top 5 womens teams in the East Conference are all ranked above the #2 womens team in the South Conference.
The women play the same finals as the men, so if standings were to not change you would have a team that will miss out on playing finals this year but had they been in the other conference would play off to host the conference final.
And no reason the same thing won't happen with the mens side of things either.
Until last year the women didn't play in conferences, had a top 6 who played finals to determine the SEAL champions. Not sure why the men couldn't do the same thing now as the conferences are redundant due to the current formant of the season.

Reply #424788 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

I appreciate the argument, but i don't need to look at the women - however relevant it may be.

Simple statement is the conferences are redundant when everyone plays everyone twice anyway.

Reply #424791 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What final series are you talking about Ho? if Geelong and Bendigo both finish 25-3 and Hobart and Mt Gambier finish in their conference say 22-6 why is that a problem? In a one conference system what will happen? The teams you are talking about MAY meet they may not.the permutations are endless. it is what it is. You seem to conclude that they will meet. Every chance that once the finals commenced they may not.
Maybe if it was a best of 3 finals series they may. But with a one confernce system thats unaffordable.
BTW lets just ignore the ladies issues that are part of the whole scenario.

Reply #424806 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

It would be helpful if you anon's gave yourself a distinct username at least.

Any competition structure, and any finals structure, should have its goal of having the best two teams meet in its final (championship) game.

Those structures should reward excellence during the home and away season.

When everyone plays each other twice (regardless of conferences) then it is very clear who the top two teams are.

The SEABL finals system does not reward the top two teams if they are from the same conference. It actually makes it impossible if this is the case.

In the current SEABL structure, you absolutely know who the best teams are after the home and away season, because everyone plays everyone else an equal number of times (redundant conference structure again).

So that is where 25-3 become relevant versus 23-5. In a one conference structure those top teams would have home privileges during finals, and have therefore the BEST chance of advancing to the grand final against each other.

Finals are a seeding system. The top two in the AFL get benefits the next two do not etc.

But the current SEABL system, where the H&A can clearly establish who the best two teams are, then punishes those best two teams by GUARANTEEING that one of them cannot make the grand final if those best two teams come from the same conference.

Do you get the problem here? Having played everyone else home and away, and an equal number of times, and determining that team A and B are the best two teams in the competition, the SEABL provisionally sets up a structure where the best two teams cannot possibly meet in the grand final.

Of course finals can go anyway, but the current system is structurally stupid because it does not allow the theoretical best two sides to play off and become the SEABL champion if they come from the one conference.

The SEABL could have a vastly better finals system, and more efficacious, if it was a one section competition, not two redundant conferences.

Reply #424810 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

HO, I agree with what you say ^ and it isn't rocket science is it....?

Reply #424832 | Report this post


D4444  
Years ago

Absolutely HO - well said

Reply #424834 | Report this post




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