DT
Years ago

The State Of Refereeing

And then there was one.... ok for official statistics lets say 29, and if you havent already guessed im talking about that endangered species called the south australian basketball referee.

With referee numbers at an almost all time low in the senior competition, and also juniors for that fact, referees, players, coaches, spectators, and BASA officials are getting more and more worn out with the situation.

Cancellation of games, roster rearrangements, complaints of solo refereeing, constant abuse of referees, and a general feeling of everyone being fed up with the situation.

But in the end it is really a joint effort by everyone involved for it to get to the state it is. But this is a perfect situation of the 'blame game'. No-one wants to take responsibility and throw their hand up and say 'well yeah i have contributed to this problem'. Whether is be referees themselves by leaving themselves open to criticism by not working hard on there game, players by abusing referees to the point when they dont want to referee, coaches by the same accord as players, BASA officials by changing the program so often. But at the end of the day all the problems are all linked to together. If we want to get anywhere it needs to be a combined effort.

Back to my '29' figure. That is how many referees that the referees director has to use for 3 nights of senior basketball. So how can you really say that is enough? Here are some more figures:

Based on Referees doing 2 games a night

Monday Night Seniors Division 3:
20 Referees Required

Tuesday Night Seniors Division 2&5:
21 Referes Required

Wednesday Night Seniors Division 4:
14 Referees Required

ABA:
20 Referees required

Friday Night Juniors:
Minimum 50 Referees Required

Seniors Requires 75 Referees for all the games to have referees on them, which is 2 games a night. Now taking into account not all referees want to referee all three nights, so that would make that 29 figure much lower for each individual night. Throw in juniors and we are looking at 125 referees required at 2 games a night, keeping in mind that again referees do not want to referee 5 nights a week.

Over the past fortnight 3 senior players have been reported for referee abuse, and they are only the ones i have heard of.

I know people will take this post as just another complainer about not enough referees but look at the figures, that should say enough. Not to mention ABA referees doing a womens and a mens game in one night plus doubling up the next day.

The state of refereeing is looking worse and worse, and with a plea sent out by the referees director to bring up junior referees to the senior competetion as a last ditch effort to try and fill spaces gets myself slightly concerened. As the player/spectator/coach abuse continues these referees will be deterred from wanting to referee. I know it gets frustrating when you get clocked on the head when shooting, or held in the post, hacked on the dribbled, and there is a no call. But for before you open your mouth, remember, no referees = no game.

Please take this post seriously, or much worse is left to come.

Topic #3239 | Report this topic


ITA  
Years ago

uh oh, ITA's got something to say. Who wrote that novel???

Reply #37387 | Report this post


Peter Maravich  
Years ago

Without adding to the entourage of people complaining about the ref's i do wish to voice my opinion regarding the 'system' in which ABL ref's are selected.

As a Junior ref, i umpired Friday nights, all ages, div one games. I also umpired a few ABL trial matches. I then asked what the process was to become an ABL ref and was told that you must umpire seniors (div 2-5) for at least 18 months before being considered.

I had better things to do with my time, and didn't look to take my umpiring any further.

My issue is not so much that 'i coulda been' but how many other young refs are being disgruntled, turned away, held back by a system which doesn't allow for progression.

Unfortunately i dont have a solution, but i think this has been a cause of decreasing umpiring standards over the past little while.

The other issue i have, is the amount of abuse umpires cop. And for that i'd like to blame the umpire-in-charge. I encourage any UIC's to reply, however at the stadiums i play and coach at, they are around far too little.

I would like to see a system where any umpiring query is directed through them. This would allow for alot of pressure to be taken off the umpires, and also allow for any constructive critiscm to be passed down through a senior umpiure...in a more effective manner. This would allow umpires to develop their game, and not become so defensive.

I don't know the precise role of the UIC's, but i feel they should be on the court (sideline) watching all games, and ready to answer any questions (specific umpiring questions, not 'why didn't you call that hack') from coaches, spectators, and after games players.

That's my two cents.

Reply #37392 | Report this post


Matt Ryan  
Years ago

Dear Peter Maravich,


All the UICs are doing the best they can out of the situation at their particular stadium.

"I don't know the precise role of the UIC's, but i feel they should be on the court (sideline) watching all games, and ready to answer any questions (specific umpiring questions, not 'why didn't you call that hack') from coaches, spectators, and after games players."

Very well in theory. However, due to some stadiums running 3 courts, the UIC can't be in 3 places at one time. Thus, the UIC may not be able to see everything that happens on every court.

Also, due to a lack of referees (whether numbers have dropped, or they have prior commitments, or are only able to referee the early games), some (if not most) UICs are now required to referee games to avoid having solos (or, in extreme cases, so that there's AT LEAST one referee on the game).

Thus, when someone is looking for the UIC, they may actually be reffing at the time. The choice HAS to be made: be UIC and don't ref, or have solos???

Tough decision!

Reply #37393 | Report this post


Peter Maravich  
Years ago

Matt

Perhaps i was thinking a few steps ahead of myself. Of course we'd like to avoid solo's, and if that means having the UIC do a few games, then i guess that is what needs to be done.

Take the hypothetical of having sufficient umpires for a nights games.

Do you not think it would be better for umpires development that UIC were (if not on sideline) accessable to other parties?

Dont you think that umpires could develop better if they were receiving constructive critism from a senior umpire, whom they respect, or just get bagged on the court by parents and coach who often dont know what they are talking about?

And similarly, would the coaches, parents, players be more receptive of information and clarification coming from a UIC then from the junior umpire who is learning the rules him/herself, let alone the communication skills?

Finally, you failed to give your comments on the ABL system, any thoughts, or do you concur?

(Don't view this as UIC bashing, i understand they work hard and do a great job, i just think more/different roles could be taken.)

Reply #37394 | Report this post


Matt Ryan  
Years ago

"Pistol Pete",

Perfect world: Yep, sure thing! UICs should be out there (Right on the money!) And I am....If I don't have to ref!

I do go out and talk to refs and watch them, giving them feedback!

As with the ABL system, I cannot comment as I only do Friday night umpiring due to my university commitments and also the fact that I am still just getting over my injury!
Thus, as I do not know the full story as to the ABL system, I cannot (nor should I) comment on it.

Reply #37395 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

what about one abl coach who chases refs into car parks berates them in bars and accuses them of cheating

no wonder the retire - why put up with it

when coaches at that level behave like that what hope do we have with junior basketball - starts at the top and filters down

Reply #37399 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What has happened to zero tolerance....tech them report them and keep doing it until SOMEONE does something to them eg SUSPEND THEM.....Coaches and players alike...for once I agree with the AFL the ref is untouchable...stop bitching about refs and get on with the game

Reply #37403 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ohhhhh and PARENTS too

Reply #37404 | Report this post


AsIseeIt  
Years ago

I don't want to get into a slinging match, but some refs are their own worst enemies by letting things get out of control.
There are many games where the ref lets things go for a while and they may warn a team 3 times, then finally have enough and 'lose it' by calling every little misdemeanour and totally frustrating everybody.
Use control early, Tech the coach or team mouthing off or whingeing (they will learn), then umpire consistently.
Same for the ref who wants to "talk" or is that argue, with a player or coach. After enough 'bait' is let out, the player or coach responds, only to be hit with a tech foul. This does not generate respect.
Some refs actually speak to a player at the break and explain a call. This is fine, but keep it short and a lot more respect will be held between both parties.
You can't have a game without refs, but the best ones are those you don't notice.

Reply #37422 | Report this post


Double Clutch  
Years ago

As a junior coach trying to limit abuse of umpires in my team I would actually like to see umpires hand out Techs much more often than they do now, be it to parents, players or coaches as in accordance with the above post. Allowing one player abuse a ref "because he is a little bit emotional" and allowing others to watch this abuse occur just enforces in player's minds that this type of behavior is acceptable. The above posts are spot on and it's about time umpires are instructed to hand out the techs a bit more frequently at junior level.

At the U20 men final at the State Champs an umpire gave a tech for swearing. Not swearing at anyone, but a player cursing himself for a mistake. If techs can be handed out this freely (which seemed excessive) surely Techs can be applied by umpires over all levels for directed abuse.

Reply #37442 | Report this post


Peter Maravich  
Years ago

couldn't agree with you more DC!

Perhaps the Zero tolerance policy needs to be enforced!

Players and coaches need to know that the only person who, under the rules of basketball, is allowed to talk to an umpire is the on-court captain. Even then, i think, it must be during a break of play. Can anyone clarify this?

Reply #37445 | Report this post


Mark Coughlin  
Years ago

the problem with refereeing abl in this state, is most ref's are too afraid to clamp down too hard on player and coach behaviour, because of the simple fact the some ref's can end up doing the same mens/womens team's 2 or 3 times in a month. and if a referee does tech foul a player or coach they tend to have long memories!!!!
if you referee abl in one of the eastern states or state league in wa you quite often only ref certain teams once or twice over a WHOLE season and the discipline factor from most coaches is a lot tougher over in the eastern states.
most times here (and i'm not singling out any teams in particular) a coach will not discipline his player for arguing with a ref but take his side thus making out task of tech fouling someone that more difficult.
why should we try to discipline players if the coach will not discipline his player and in the back of your mind your thinking "well shit i've got these guys in 2 weeks and they might hold a grudge against me"
i still think there is time for coaches and players to take the lead and not make our job that much more harder than what it is.

Reply #37449 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

All of the above posts are spot on.

I would add that Coaches do have a huge part to play in all this....The Coaches need to be rained in by the officaldom....they coach the team and thats it...no theatrics are required.....sure they will disagree with a call and may say something about it to the ref....but does if have to be in a threatening way?

Chasing refs in car parks and pubs? what the? Clubs tell your coaches to coach...let the refs do their job.....agree to disagree with some calls but at the end of the day....ITS A GAME or has the whole world gone mad

Reply #37451 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is it the job of the umpire to control players? Why have coaches then?

Why is the job of umpires to control coaches? Why have clubs?

Blaming referees for a game getting out of hand or a coach being too loud is passing the buck. Coaches need to be responsible for the behaviour of their players. Clubs need to take responsibility for the behaviour of their parents, players and coaches.

Guys stop passing the buck, blmaing the refs is never going to solve the problem.

Reply #37453 | Report this post


$talks  
Years ago

I support the thought behind Peter Maravich's suggestion. Clearly coaches need an avenue to comment on a ref's performance in a constructive way. Many moons ago when I played amateur football the coach and capitan of each side provides a rating and brief comment on the umpires performance on the back of the official scorecard. The discpline of forcing feedback in writing took alot of the emotion out of the process and I believe provided essential feedback (both positive and negative).

Reply #37468 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

clubs need to take control over their coaches - coaches should coach the players and not expect the referees to 'help' on defence -

ABL coaches and players should be leading by example. players in the afl rarely argue - they are seen as role models and if juniors see players and coaches being abusive and getting away with it they think they can do it too.

FOR FAR TOO LONG we in south australia have become accustomed to blaming the ref.

it is time for everyone, players, coaches, clubs and referee's to take control of their individual areas and let us get respect back for the referees.

Reply #37511 | Report this post


Dr Dunkenstein  
Years ago

anon - 37511

"players in the afl rarely argue"

that is the most incorrect statement i have ever heard. After every whistle, you see the AFL players give a spray to the umps.

Apart from that statement, your right, it shouldn't be part of the umpires duties to control players or coaches.

Reply #37518 | Report this post


Nathan Durant  
Years ago

Peter,

Here is your answer on why you didn't get to ABA level.

How did you expect to go from Friday night league, to ABA, without having to referee any senior basketball leading up to it? Who do you think you are/were to just jump into the league? Noone I know has jumped straight into ABA without refereeing reserves first. I used to have to referee div 3s and 4s as I was playing reserves at the time I started refereeing in the ABA.

If you refereed reserves regularly and at a high standard, I'm sure you could have got into ABL in 3-6 months. 18 months is a little over the top, but if you aren't good enough, having that time frame could have been what you needed to get up to standard. Senior basktball is no where near the same as junior basketball. Just because you can possibly handle an u18 or u20s game, doesn't mean you can handle these semi-professional players (sometime professionals) on the floor. You would have to be kidding yourself if you had, or still have this attitude.

Reply #37550 | Report this post


wish I could dunk  
Years ago

Makes sense Nathan

Reply #37551 | Report this post


Peter Maravich  
Years ago

Nathan

thank you for your response.

Perhaps you missed my point of emphasis. I certainly didn't and dont think i was good enough to go straight to ABL, but i had done ABL scratch matches (pre-season), and didn't think i was 18 months away. After hearing the 'must ref seniors 2-5 for 18 months' i gave up reffing. The point i was trying to make was, how many other young refs get turned away after being told this???

I certainly wasn't having a whinge about not reffing ABL level, just questioning the system of getting there, possibly, detering or holding back some ref's.

Reply #37566 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There actually has to be a state of refereeing b4 one can critique it...

Reply #37576 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Just have to say Peter...

It is like any profession - you must work hard enough to get the rewards !!

Too many umpires take bad attitudes out on court and don't learn because they don't listen - simply because they think their shit don't stink!! That's because it is handed to them on a platter - I think it is opposite to what you say...

Then these refs realise it and drift away as they get disapointed with themselves...

The whole system sux!! Support from BASA is the main thing and the sooner those dick heads take their heads out their arses long enough to smell the clean air the better.
From getting a proper tribunal system in place to Providing sufficient funding for courses referee development and advertising for recuiting... Pay is a bigger issue now more than ever before especially with yet another increase in federal and state awards!!

BASA need to market better, administrate better and support better...

Clubs have to take responsibility for behaviour but so do BASA - clubs and referees can't grow with an administrator that doesn't support.

All of this is SHIT - right people in the right places - get the job done and do with ease !!

It's not rocket science !!

Reply #37598 | Report this post




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