hoopie
Years ago

do you agree with Corletto about the tough rules?

The Age reports that Corletto is not happy about the tighter rules to reduce the physical stuff, complaining that it will turn the game into netball. He complains that it blunts the advantage that the Breakers and Wildcats had, and that it makes the game too long because of all the foul shots.

Comments on the rules? Comments on him suggesting that netball isn't physical? Comments on how long the game could become?

Personally, I'm glad they've started cleaning up the game. As long as they stick to it rigorously rather than it coming down to each ref's interpretation. Maybe now it will be more fun to watch.

Full article

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I'm also happy with them cleaning it up, aslong as they are consistent it is upto the players to adjust.

Its funny the teams that are losing are the ones complaining the most, maybe the players/coaches need to get over complaining and adjust their game style.

I dont really feel sympathy for the 3 time defending champions not having an advantage now as the game has been cleaned up, as it needed to be.

Sure the refs may have got a tad too picky, which may be a slight reduction in calls, as Boti put it they went from black to white, probably need to fall somewhere in the grey, but closer to how they called games at the blitz than last season, from what i saw of the blitz it was good to watch, the amount of FT's shot in the game will become less of an issue as players adjust.

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The Situation  
Years ago

As a general rule, whenever starts their complaints with "its not netball" they've automatically lost the argument.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

he should know more than anyone that Netball is quite a physically challenging game!

STFU

Reply #437683 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What i dont get, is players/coaches complaining in the media, dont they want the league to suceed? do they want to keep their high paying jobs? if the league suceeds they may even get a pay rise along the way.

Surely at the moment players should be pumping up the league to the media, talking about how exciting the blitz was, how good the new imports/young talent that has come into the league are, to get the media, fans, potential sponsors interested.

Sure Corletto may have been asked the question and gave his honest answer, but was is wrong with saying something along the lines of 'i think the league and the refs are doing there best to free up the game style, to allow for some more exciting plays and higher scoring games which will be great for the players and fans, i feel there are a few kinks that need ironing out, but we are heading in the right direction'. Maybe thats being too diplomatic, but id rather that than players whinging constantly at this point. Then making your complaints privately through the correct channels to the appropriate people.

For those doing the complaining, no one has suggested how it could be done better, maybe could state an opinion on a specific play that should be let go/not called so tightly and how it wont impact the game negatively. Its just bitching with its not netball comments, basically because the individual players/teams are not getting there way/winning, which as said above, once you start with that you have already lost the argument.

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The Situation  
Years ago

Also, keep in my mind the author of the article is an extremely biased Breakers supporter.

Reply #437685 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Im very happy with the clean up, the past season and a half (and to a lesser extent some seasons before that dating back to the late 90s) have just been over the top. If we want to show off the skills of the players the game cant be reffed in the favour of the defence, which it has been.

That said, they cant call body contact as tight as they did at the Blitz or we will get free throw competitions, defenders cant just disappear when an offensive players jumps into them.

As for the netball comment, I doubt Daryl is the toughest person in his household and he could live to regret that comment!

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Isaac  
Years ago

I think it's shortsighted to complain about games taking longer because of foul shots as they're clearly happening in the period before players adjust. It will be frustrating at the Blitz and noticeably so in the first few rounds but teams will have to clean up if they don't want their best sitting on the bench.

Final game of the Blitz was Hawks-Tigers in OT. 38 FTA total. An NBA game might have one team shooting 40-50 without OT. That said, FTs come under scrutiny in the NBA. as boringly halting the game.

Hinton in the article:

But the new interpretations have met near total disapproval around the league, with a predictable adjustment period playing out where games are becoming dominated by fouls and free-throws.
Pffft. Anstey came around and congratulated the refs on their adjustments to the adjustments. Fans have talked up the scores and stats. Many other comments reported talk about adjusting and it being for the right reasons.

Quote from Corletto:
"I've got a lot of friends who are basketball fans, and they're telling me it's not exciting."
From a handful of pre-season games only?

Reply #437687 | Report this post


Andrew K  
Years ago

Overall it's a better result. Sure, the foul calls have been frustrating but players will learn and fans will accept it. I love seeing scores over 100, and individuals scoring over 20. Even if they are getting there via free-throws, being able to make a free throw is a skill all basketball players need to be able to do.

Reply #437688 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Maybe Corletto needs to unfollow Mr Johnny White on Twitter.

#commonsense

Reply #437689 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Reading the article, it doesnt make sense to me, he complains about having to have hands off the player with the ball and only arm bars on players off the ball and limited to no body contact.

I thought thats basically what the rules were meant to be in basketball.

i never played high level basketball, but when i played thats how i defended, you defend through sliding your feet, staying in front of the players with your arms stretched out in a good position to make it hard to shoot/pass. We always got called for grabbing, slapping, pushing players if it happened, which it didnt happen a whole lot. You can defiantly play good defense with tight reffing, i was more of a defensive player and rarely got into foul trouble. Sounds to me a few players just need to learn how to play basic defense instead of just grabbing, pushing, elbowing, slapping, that was happening a lot over the past few years in the NBL.

Sorry DC, and anyone else complaining/struggling to adjust, learn to play defense properly, by the book, not just exploiting what refs used to let you get away with, which most agree was way too much.

Reply #437690 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Im not sure if we'll quite see as high scores regularly in the real season as teams will change the way they defend. But I just love seeing guys able to cut at pace and the ball flying around in the half court, and teams able to be more aggressive in transition, it just makes for clean attractive basketball.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Probably didn't help the situation having an ex AFL Umpire directing the NBL officials either.
In hindsight a poor appointment.
Now that an ex high level Basketball official is in charge we might see the game officiated like, well, BASKETBALL!!!

Reply #437694 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

True, but their was quite a few physical seasons when Mal was reffing too!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The way things are going the WNBL will be a more physical league than the NBL, which is a bad thing..

Reply #437698 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

As a Breakers fan id admit it and so should the club: the team didn't adjust to the different officiating.

The Breakers games were long and had a lot of FTs because they simply couldnt adjust.

Other teams adjusted better than them so it pains me to hear Corletto say its a league wide problem.


At the end of the day...Corletto should understand its a situation he and his teammates can control : Just play less physical defence.
He makes it sound like its out of his control when actually the team can control the foul situation just as much as the refs can.



Reply #437699 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Gotta love DC really sooking about this......He won't get away with his sniping of the ball anymore....so he might have to actually play some form of defence!

Reply #437700 | Report this post


crusty  
Years ago

These changes were well overdo!

Reply #437701 | Report this post


KB3  
Years ago

As long as it is being called the same way both ends of the floor there is no problem

De -Gorjifying the league is a must

Reply #437702 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

As a Breakers fan id admit it and so should the club: the team didn't adjust to the different officiating.
Same article had reasonable comments along those lines from Abercrombie. Only ones I've seen complain about the changes have been Corletto and Worthington, both pulling the netball card in the process.

Reply #437704 | Report this post


POP  
Years ago

The rules, as written, are about ensuring a fair competition [balance?] between attacker and defender. The holding and other physical junk distorts that.

And while the focus in this and other discussions has been on how the return to the rules will 'free up' players to display their offensive skills, calling the game by the rules will also mean a return to genuine defensive skills, which are also a great part of the game but have been pretty much ignored in recent seasons because there isn't much use for footwork, for example, when you can just grab, hold, chop, push ...

Calling by the rules as written,with minimal focus on the 'interpretation' clause oft cited by refs,can only be good for attack and defence.

Reply #437705 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Agreed POP,

Reply #437706 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Yeah Isaac.
I meant the club should take responsibilty collectively.

I would have thought clubs would say to their players something along the lines of 'Dont criticise the refereeing to the media in regards to the new interpretations".

Does this happen? It needs to.

Reply #437707 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Very true, do the NBL need to fine players for public criticism of refs like the AFL does?

Reply #437708 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

corletto is married to a netball player isnt isnt he??? i wonder what she thinks about his comments.


Reply #437709 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Stephen Dennis ‏@SDennis14
Defense is a part of the game! Removing hand checking is fine but all CONTACT! Thats not basketball! #NBLBlitz

Stephen Dennis ‏@SDennis14
Damn near more free throws then field goals #noflow #weAreNotentertained

Auryn Macmillan ‏@auryn_macmillan
61 free throws in 40 minutes = boring basketball @NBL #NBLBlitz

Scott Morrison ‏@TheRealScoMo
Not tweeting about the way the game was called tonight #NBLBlitz

So it's not just Corletto and the Breakers sooking?

Reply #437710 | Report this post


Grovermi$ter  
Years ago

Players and teams and umpires Will take time to adjust to the new interpretations....

even Mal said the umpires did as was instructed but needed to refine the way they were interpreting what is a foul and what isnt...

the game freed up during the tournament...

how about people stop whinging and just play to the whistle, thats what i was taught.

the NBA went through a simliar teething problem a few years ago too... look at it now...

bring on the season tip off!

going to be a very tight season! all teams will have to play well every game, wont be any EASY games this season.

Go the 36ers!

Reply #437711 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The fact they're sooking about getting pinged for hand checking and holding shows how much has been instructed let go under the previous management.

Rules are rules.

Reply #437712 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Is there a direct correlation between number of complaints from a club, and whether or not that club lost the game in which they felt the reffing was bad?

As has been said above, the NBL needs to put a stop to this pathetic tweeting and whining about the new interpretations. Give ALL players a first and final warning as of now and the next guy that does it cops a $500 fine.

Reply #437713 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Amen The Situation, completely agree.

Reply #437714 | Report this post


dids  
Years ago

After watching a pre-season game with the new officiating, I found it a tad boring watching consecutive free-throws at both ends of the floor... yes the reffing was equal, yes the score board looked good, but other then that it really wasn't that entertaining to watch...

I think the physical-ness of the game brings excitement in its self, obviously not to the extent of grabbing and dropping a should etc, but after watching this game it was like you couldn't even get into the flow of the game as the second you even bumped someone (no hand checks) you were called for a foul.

Reply #437719 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Here''s a novel idea for the NBL players sooking about the foul count: ADJUST to how the game is being officiated and stop fouling!!!

Reply #437721 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

I think we have to be clear about what the problem was.

It wasn't the Adelaide 36ers or Townsville Crocodiles or Cairns Taipans holding and grappling in the backcourt every game...it was the Perth Wildcats.... especially at HOME, and to a lesser extent the NZ Breakers.

Under the old interpretations, if an also ran team like Adelaide or Townsville tried to play the same sort of defense as the "contenders" it would be whistled every time.

It crept in and then we all got normalised to it, to the point where refs and fans would just accept it and say "oh that's just how the wildcats play" when in fact it was illegal defensive contact a lot of the time.

I do hope however that the refs get it right and keep the whistles more or less outside of the three point line. If we start whistling every bit of contact in the paint it's going to turn off lots of fans and turn it into netball.

As I mentioned in another thread: all you need to do is call the game correctly outside of the perimeter and in the backcourt and you will see it open right up.

Reply #437724 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Dont Worry dids,

Teams will adjust

And when they do, there will be less free throws and more layups/ lanes opening.

The reason why I trust that teams will adjust is that if they don't, they won't win games.

Because let's face it, if you send teams to the FT line you will lose games.

I don't know exactly the strength of the leagues FT shooting compared to overseas leagues, but I would say it actually wouldn't be too bad.

Anyone confirm?

Reply #437725 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

dids, which game did you watch?

Reply #437726 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

If Penney returns to nz will anyone be able to stop him scoring under the new interpretations?

Reply #437727 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

dids, the game was designed with only two basic rules - no running with the ball, and no deliberate personal contact.

Sure, there have been lots of rules added to speed things up and give everyone a fair go, but basically it's still just the original two rules.

If Wildcats and Breakers find a game with only two basic rules difficult to play then they can't be very smart (or they're playing the wrong game).

Reply #437728 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

To be fair to the Wildcats this season they have adjusted well winning most of their pre-season games, even though they were the most guilty in the past.

I guess the change in coach and recruiting good imports who would be best in a open game and replacing guys like Robbins with guys like Burdon (a less physical, pure shooter) helps the adjustment. I also assume guys like Redhage and Wagstaff have realised they wont get away with as much this season, which is a good thing, both are good, skilled players but could get too carried away with contact, wrestling, elbows, etc.

Players, learn to play the game properly, ie play propper defence, stop whinging and adjust, play to the whistles, read the rule book, just because you got away with it in the past doesnt mean its within the rules, as most have realised far too much outside of the rules contact was being let go the last few years.

You only have yourselves to blame for foul counts, learn to play propper, clean defense, id say most teams have already adjusted to some point, so NZ and Tigers you have to do the same or you will struggle, can whinge all you like, you wont win ball games. The game has not been turned into netball, its been taken from wrestling back to basketball,

so learn to play basketball, slide your feet properly, keep your hands out, you will do find, lazy defenders/teams who used to hack/grapple and not play real defense and get away with it in the past are now being found out. Your problem not the refs or leagues. Sometimes you just got to take responsibility for your own actions and adjust and abide by the rules, as funny as it sounds.

Reply #437731 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

let me get this straight...

last season's thug rules = players whining about physical contact

not adjusting to the non-thug interpretation this season = players whining about lack of physical contact

make up your minds ffs

Reply #437741 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

"I think we have to be clear about what the problem was."

Actually, there is absolutely no point trying to lay blame for this problem at all. If it makes you feel better, go for it, but whoever was or wasn't playing physical is totally irrelevant.

Reply #437742 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

And he was totally wrong. Pretending NZ and Perth started some sort of physical trend!!

Reply #437753 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Blaming Perth and NZ for physical/disciplined play is just a way of disguising that the other six teams were disorganised rabble for large parts of last season.

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paul  
Years ago

Good article on NBL site summarising the situation with the reffing changes. Nice to see that level of openness.

http://www.nbl.com.au/article/id/an585i3ixw0q1wmzj9fpwsmcy

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Camel 31  
Years ago

Well I'll be damned , I'm not the only one that finds FTs boringly halting the game, even though hoolahoops are big fans.
NBLers love having huddles prior to FTs. I just bored
For some reason, when I played the refs had to hold the ball in the front court, but in the back court we just threw it in, a bit qicker game back then and you had a sideball option rather than than watch a player miss FTs. I think there may even be a threepoint play now also for more FTs.
Nevertheless lesser players shouldn't hold Imprts like Jonni Flynn. J.Hodge used to belt the guards arms when they did. D.Ng used to run outta court and back in to avoid getting hels onto.

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skull  
Years ago

that is a good article on nbl website.

all the old,slow & lazy guards will be exposed.....back to work boys the party is over!!

Reply #437769 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Ha! The guards are anything but lazy, I havent watched a league where the players bust their arse more than the NBL the past few years.

Just because a bit of extra holding was allowed doesnt mean they werent sliding feet and working hard. The difference now is they wont be able to get up and in like they have, and that makes for better offence (and finally pull us in line with the international game).

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Mick  
Years ago

No no I am not blaming perth or nz at all. Just saying they used the old "interpretations" to their advantage the most. Also being the top two teams in the league for the past x amount of seasons they were allowed to get away with more than the other teams, the same way you see superstar calls go to big name players.

The only person to blame for it is the refs boss. Teams are going to do whatever they can get away with to win and all power to them for that.

Reply #437782 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

What I meant was if you watched townsville play sydney last year you probably wouldnt see much holding. Some offensive ineptitude keeping the scores down sure but not much holding.

FWIW I am all for the new direction, but we just have to make sure its consistent across the board. Are perth and nz going to be beneficiaries of the new calls as well? Will their star guards now be feasting at the free throw line all night just as they got to defensively wrestle in the backcourt unpunished last year?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

NZ last in preseason
Melb 3rd last in preseason

That is why they are whinging! Adjust or you lose! Whinge & you lose games as well as lose credibility

Reply #437792 | Report this post


Kr  
Years ago

How many new imports in previous years used to comment about having to adjust to the physical nature of the nbl and how it was reffed. Many were sent packing because they struggled to adjust. Hopefully more of the exciting athletic imports will flourish under the new interpretations, rather than struggling under the previous slug fest. This years crop of imports who look particularly exciting, plus the likes of Abercrombie, blanchfield, Goulding etc should all benefit greatly from the changes.

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paul  
Years ago

On the flipside, up until recent years how often did new imports just spend time on the bench in foul trouble because we called the game too soft! That was just as bad.

Many Aussie refs have long struggled to understand the different levels of contact permitted under the rules by hands (out of the defenders' cylinder) and body (in the cylinder). It seems to go tight on both or they let contact go on both.

Hopefully this time around we finally get it right and call it similarly to other major competitions around the world who understand the difference as set out in the rules.

Certainly the comments from Cooper are promising, let's see how many of the refs can follow it through.

Reply #437803 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

On the money paul.

Even two seasons ago I remember elvin mims, one of the better defensive import wings this league has seen in the last three seasons, stuck in foul trouble the whole time. And it wasn't because he was doing anything illegal, while other guys were free to grapple and hold all game long. This was during the height of the nbls grappling days.

I also worry whether they can get it right, and get it right consistently and fairly. Because the grappling wasnt allowed across the board. It was allowed for certain players.

Reply #437808 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

From Coopers comments if the refs dont follow through they wont get appointed so it shouldnt be a hard decision for the panel.

On the flip side, if the referees stay consistent and call the games like they did on Sunday at the blitz and the teams still fail to adjust I hope to read comments relating to the players inability to change compared with ...the refs are f**king the game and calling soft shit. They are always the easy target but if they are consistent then its back on the players to grow a brain.... I'm not that confident that will happen.

Reply #437809 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Yep, if there's consistency that leaves few excuses for the players, unless they are calling some areas consistently wrong like the start of the Blitz!

By Sunday though they had it pretty right (albeit with mostly experienced refs) and if that is how the season is called Ill definitely be happy and the games will be great to watch.

Reply #437810 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

I got the impression of certain players holding Flynn and not getting called, then flynn getting called for a soft touch. It just struck me kinda funny.
(Musta been like Mimms that Mick just mentioned.)

Reply #437812 | Report this post


I'm a fan of Corletto. I'm a fan of the Breakers.

But I got so sick of how rough the league has been. It started to look bad in my opinion. Netball isn't physical? He must not watch any trans-tasman games then...

Reply #438593 | Report this post




 

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