Years ago

NBL is missing the big picture

The problem with the NBL is not the number of teams; the problem is that it's not the best players available to play. Australian’s like to watch and support Australian sport if they can see the best players, play. AFL best players in the world, NRL best players, A-League best players available. NBL are not best players going around, not even the best Australian talent going around. I am a lover of the game of basketball and spend money on NBA TV and others to watch Basketball from around the world but I will not pay to watch the NBL.

The player point system that NBL teams have to construct their teams with is a joke, all it does is stop teams going out and trying to get the very best players they can. If they can get 10 gun players and fit them into the salary cap then good job.

The league should be about trying to create Australian NBL stars. Not restrict talented players from getting into a team. If the NBL create some excitement in the league and create an elite sports entertainment product then the fans, crowds and TV audience will grow. Then the league will grow.

I watched the SEABL grand final this year and witnessed DQ from Dandenong destroy players that are playing in NBL teams this season, for him not to be playing in the NBL is a joke. A lot of NBL players, play in the SEABL in the off season and find it hard to be effective, where they should be super stars. The only reason they are in the NBL, they have a low point score!

The solution is easy, scrap the player point system. Every team can have Two International imports; One Local based import (played in AUS for SEABL previous season); Eight Australian players and three Development players. Roster of 14 players. The only salary restriction is that development players can only be paid $30K pp. That leaves $910,000 for 11 Players.

The NBL needs to create an Elite completion where the best players, play. Not where average players play because they have a low point score. Then we may start to see some exciting basketball in the NBL. "If you build it they will come"

Topic #32926 | Report this topic

Years ago

It is very simple, it all comes down to one word REVENUE.

The NBL doesn't bring in enough revenue to pay Australia's elite basketball players.

If they work hard at Marketing the game and bring in the crowds, it may change one day

Reply #441454 | Report this post

Years ago

The player point system that NBL teams have to construct their teams with is a joke, all it does is stop teams going out and trying to get the very best players they can. If they can get 10 gun players and fit them into the salary cap then good job.
The points cap doesn't stop the SEABL import you mentioned getting a gig (that'd be the import restriction or some other problem with them). The points cap doesn't stop an NBL team signing NBA players or all Australians currently in Europe. They don't have infinite money.

The fact that NBL players aren't the best basketball players in the world is an issue that AFL doesn't have (obviously), but saying the NBL is missing it is completely wrong. It's just not something that can be changed in a small country.

If you want a league "where the best play" and that's your only criteria other than currently spending, then other than scrapping the points cap, you'd need to remove import restrictions. I don't know what the end game of that would be. It might be more entertaining, but it wouldn't be more Australian and the impact on crowds could be unpredictable.

I don't think there's a serious league outside of the top-dog NBA without import restrictions, is there?

Reply #441457 | Report this post

Years ago

Couldn't agree more!

Reply #441459 | Report this post

Years ago

No way do i buy your A League argument, the same issues that effect global Soccer stars playing in Australia effect Basketball too

The NBL is full of stars right now if you open your eyes.

If you note, Redhage stats were right along side a guy linked to the Miami Heat this season

Abercrombie and Goulding where at Summer League as a starting point. Ervin held his own in the NY summer leagues vs dominant NBA talent too.

Give me a clue as to which "best Australian talent" isnt playing in the NBL right now. Be realistic, Ingles etc doesnt count because they are global stars.

Points also has nothing to do with excitement. I am excited to see Creek ( 3/4 points) , Ellis ( 3 points) play this season as I am Ennis and Ervin

Reply #441461 | Report this post

Years ago

Isaac, They don't have to be the best players in the world, but at least the best available in this country. I don't want to watch a player that cannot even play a starring role in the SEABL play in the NBL. e.g. Lucas Walker is a 6 SEABL PPG 14.9. CJ Massingale is a 7 SEABL PPG 22.2, he played half a season in the NBL. What purpose does the point system serve.

Reply #441462 | Report this post

Years ago

Massingale isn't an Australia , Walker is- what is your argument?

Reply #441464 | Report this post

Years ago

AFL players the best in the world? Because there is no one else in the world who plays, but each week the players running around are only in the best 500 in their country.

The 60 players in the NBL are probably in the top 80 basketballers in Australia, a sport with a similar male participation rate to aussie rules.

The AFL is the one that has mediocre talent running around each week.

Seven NBL bench players, one NBL starter and four college players won the silver medal at the WUG this year, matching guys who are currently or will be in the NBA, Euroleague, ACB, VTB United etc. Just because theyre not household names doesnt mean they arent very talented.

Reply #441469 | Report this post

Years ago

Stopped reading after the OP suggested the A-League has the best players in the sport...

Reply #441471 | Report this post

Years ago

A-League has the best players they can afford.
NBL has best players they can fit into the points system.

Reply #441477 | Report this post

Pauly B  
Years ago

The A-League doesn't have the best players available. It's propped up buy government hand outs that the NBL doesn't get and the best player leave to go overseas to better leagues just like the NBL.

Reply #441478 | Report this post

Years ago

Like BJF hinted Re Walker/Massingale. Massingale's point rating isn't stopping him from being signed, the fact he's an import is. If Lucas Walker was an import he also wouldn't be signed.

Lets name a bunch of Australian's who aren't in the NBL right now.

Andrew Bogut
Patty Mills
Joe Ingles
Nathan Jawai
David Andersen
Brad Newley
Aron Baynes
Julian Khazzouh
David Barlow

If there was a "marquee" player that could be signed outside of the player points cap. Would ANY of those players sign with an NBL team?


Why? Because they wouldn't earn the kind of money they're currently on with their respective teams & leagues.

So it's not the point system that's stopping our stars from returning. It's money.

Then you hear people say "raise the salary cap". OK that sounds GREAT. Lets do that.. However where is this extra money coming from? Breakers and the Wildcats might be able to offer an extra 100k or so on top of the 1mil cap. But what about the other 6 teams? Cairns make a profit but it's very very small, we're talking a couple thousand. The others either lose or break even.

So what do we do? It's a catch 22.

You have to start small and build it up again. The first thing that should be done is expanding the import rule to 3 imports. 1 local import like someone said and the other 2 are for "true" imports like Rotnei Clarke, Kerron Johnson and so on.

Local import rule: Import must have played for a state league (SEABL, WASBL, Big V etc) for at least 2 full seasons. Could also join with the NZNBL and classify them as a "state league".

If the points rating stays then local imports shouldn't be rated as a 10. Should be a 7 max. If local imports are willing to play in Aus for 2+ seasons at min salary then I think they deserve a true shot at the next level.

Reply #441479 | Report this post

Years ago

"A-League has the best players they can afford.
NBL has best players they can fit into the points system."

Incorrect. Josh Pace and Tracy Mcgrady are both rated the same. So why doesn't Mcgrady come to the NBL? It's nothing to do with his points not fitting in. It's because he wants 1mil+ Pace (for EG) does not demand that kind of money.

So yes, the NBL has the best players they can afford.

Reply #441480 | Report this post

Years ago

The exceptions recently listed are guys like Tom Daly (sorry Tom, not a drawcard), Rhys Carter, etc. Someone like Barlow would be in the NBL if he were cheaper and wanted to play. Points cap isn't keeping him out. Get so bored of him getting mentioned.

The league needs to be solid before it's spectacular or the teams don't last long enough. And it's not as though it's abysmal either - look at what Ennis is doing, or Adelaide's crowd with a new coach and improved roster. Decent steps.

If new teams were added, then a concession for SEABL imports would be a good option I think. Maybe a basic luxury tax to allow Perth and NZ to keep driving forward the league with Ennis-level talent. But other than that, there is far lower-hanging fruit to chase like the site, stats, NBL.TV, etc.

Reply #441488 | Report this post

Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Luxury tax that feeds into an NBL marketing fund pool could have a nice positive feedback loop going.

Worth mentioning, Wildcats just announced membership have jumped another ~500 since the weekend to 7,600, and I think you have to chalk up a fair chunk of that to Ennis and his highlights.

Reply #441491 | Report this post

Years ago

"A-League has the best players they can afford.
NBL has best players they can fit into the points system"

So you admit that it is the same - for some reason the best players are not playing in it. So you just defeated your own argument...

Reply #441495 | Report this post

Years ago

I'm with nat. I'd also chuck in that we need to change the points system to be realistic. Let's stop kidding ourselves by giving 10 points to guys who don't rate on the world stage. Lets get a points system that's realistic, and which has the flexibility to let a team go for a real 10-point player instead of shutting them out.

So, just to chuck something out there -

10 points - for someone who started on an NBA team, top Euro-League club or the Boomers in the last couple of years

9 points - for a bench player on one of those teams

8 points - for a starter on a good Euro-League team, someone who played NBA or top Euro-League or Boomers between 2 and 5 years ago, or if they started for a US D-League team or an NBL Grand finalist in the last two years

7 points - for a bench player on one of those teams, or someone who has played NBL for 5 or more years

and so on.

Reply #441496 | Report this post

Years ago

listening to an all Australian AFL player being interviewed on local radio the other day,reckons half the modern day players in the league wouldn't even have made it on to the bench years ago,watered down terribly.

The AFL can thank its lucky arse that no one else in the world plays it's game.....

Reply #441500 | Report this post

Years ago

Another idiot Anon trotting out the same argument, more than satisfactorily beaten down by Nat and Paul... nicely nipped in the bud, guys...

I'll even add to the player list of players not playing here because even out of college they're getting bigger bucks...

Bose (playing nearly 4mpg compared to being a star over here)

and don't forget Delly who we won't see play here either... Why? CASH... It's not unlimited...

Reply #441502 | Report this post

Years ago

The points system is stupid and we all know it. Let the teams get the best they can AFFORD. If the financially strongest teams are getting a couple players better than they could based on being able to pay more, and they pull more heads isn't that better for the whole league? The points cap is just ridiculous and has not been of much use at all. I like the idea of allowing a SEABL import spot is good also, especially if used on one who's been here a few years and potentially has planted roots here with family etc.

Reply #441569 | Report this post

Years ago

But they do have the best they can afford. Why haven't you picked up on that yet?

Reply #441574 | Report this post

Years ago

If the top teams dont have anyone to play against that wont be good for the league, and thats what will happen if the other teams arent competitive. Fans dont want to go see their teams being thrashed.

Reply #441575 | Report this post

Years ago

ricey, that's more or less what they're doing. The difference is guys like Daly (bench player) and Carter (I imagine he's too streaky or expensive to help his cause). The points cap hasn't forced Ennis out, Ervin to Europe, etc. The Tall Blacks are still in the NBL. Gibson, Petrie, Johnson, Worthington, Ogilvy, Markovic are all here.

The points cap being removed is not going to make a huge improvement and suddenly break open the game for the better. There are serious risks however.

Reply #441591 | Report this post

Years ago

This is something that could be fixed pretty simple. One of the problems is the coaches rotation system during games. The coaches want to bat 10 deep. Within the 6th minute of 1st quarter all starting 5 have sat on bench.
You try and spread $1 million around 10 players and you are going to get compromise which means cheap players, which means ........
In the 90's the games were 48mins and you would would have players playing over 40 mins. Your 3 aussies plus 2 imports played majority of minutes,
Now we get 40 min games with most players 20-30 min game time. I know the old argument of "these days the intensity is so much higher will be trotted out"., full court press, etc, etc.
The talent is spread around so widely within all the teams.

Reply #441612 | Report this post

Years ago

So, what's your actual argument? If teams could spend up on starters and play them 38 MPG and win, they'd do it. Instead, they maintain a high intensity and spread the minutes. The coaches are tasked with winning first and foremost.

I've suggested lowering the minimum salary before which wouldn't hurt the recruitment of premium talent, but probably wouldn't help much. Others have suggested adjusting the points values for the upper end.

I'm still keen, once we have 10 or more teams, to see allowance of a third import, if they've played 20+ games at SEABL/ABL level in the previous season. I think that could drive interest from more fans and also bring better talent to our lower leagues.

I've also talked before about soft caps being used to permit flexibility but at a cost that is returned to weaker teams so they stay competitive. This could be done with any restriction such as the salary cap, points cap and even import restrictions.

Reply #441614 | Report this post

Years ago

My argument is that by concentrating on 6 players with all the money, you are going to have the best players playing, putting a better product out on display. (and probably a team that will win more than lose) But coaches will always put their interest first, before the game.

Maybe if a coach had of been brave enough to buck the current trend of 10 deep benches, who knows what would happen with a super 6 squad, especially with the current environment with regards to the referees making calls to clean up the game. If all you have are sheep, they will just follow the same path.

Is the AFL a better game because of the rotations? or do they just recruit more athletes who are good footballers, instead of great footballers who can run and jump a little.

Reply #441626 | Report this post

Years ago

If it didnt work coaches wouldnt do it. The teams who win are the deepest, and if your players are on court the whole game they wont be able to compete at the end of the game with opponents who are fresh.

Reply #441631 | Report this post

Years ago

But coaches will always put their interest first, before the game.
Huh? Coaches are there to win for their clubs. That's in the interest of their clubs as much as them. Those deep teams where coaches are running everyone at high intensity, have you looked at their crowds? Perth wasn't the most entertaining team last year, but they had excellent crowds and atmosphere and easily the highest membership levels. Because they were winning. The Breakers had a deep team and also had good turnouts because they were successful.

Adelaide had 5,800 (good opener for recent years) with a reasonably level roster and no Ennis-level talent.

Reply #441638 | Report this post

Years ago

And then you have your best players fouling early ( Forman , Abercrombie ) fixed to the bench and have to run cast offs to fill the void whilst getting spanked.

Deep rosters are successful for a reason

Reply #441647 | Report this post

Years ago

Then as long as people are happy with deep rosters, you will not have the best players playing.

Yes. Coaches are there to win for their clubs. But winning playing ugly will be good for the coach, but not the game as a whole.

Reply #441654 | Report this post

Years ago

Which best players arent playing? I dont want to see good players making bad plays because they cant keep up with the fresh players on the other team.

Reply #441668 | Report this post


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