Mystro
Years ago

Kings Vs Breakers

Big game for both teams. NZ desperately need to put some W's on the board or start polishing the wooden spoon to put next to the 3 consecutive titles & Sydney are coming off a couple of losses to the Hawks.

James Harvey is back for the Kings and we also get a chance to see Saint Louis Billiken Cody Ellis in a Kings uniform.

Alex Pledger is out for NZ after rolling his ankle on boxing day at training and may be out for at least 4 weeks making NZ's task at hand even more difficult.

Gary Wilkinson will start at Centre for NZ and luckily has started to regain some of his form and Sydney don't utilize Ogilvy so losing Pledger may not spell complete disaster.

Vukona Vs Young will be interesting as will TeRangi Vs Ellis.

Have Sydney got anyone who can stay with Kerron Johnson?

Breakers by 5.

Topic #33416 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

No PLedger should mean Ogilvy should be back to his early season form dominating the paint. But that also depends on if Heal has told his players to pass the ball into Ogilvy instead of constantly blaming him! Its pointless having the best Big Man in the NBL but only take 6 shots a game!

This should be a W for the Kings.. If not, the blame should be directly on Heal!

Reply #450889 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

It will take a red hot offensive display from NZ to get this with Pledger out, because without their inside presence and being only eight deep youd think they are going to struggle to lock down defensively.

Reply #450894 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Still cant work out why Salt hasn't being given a chance

Especially considering:

- He was logging mins for the TBs this year
- He is going to be a big d1 school (VT)
- We don't have much inside presence beyond Pledge.

Will he get his opportunity today?

Is he travelling with the team?

Reply #450896 | Report this post


skull  
Years ago

kings by 3.

Reply #450899 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Salt is a restricted development player, he doesnt get paid to preserve his college eligibility! Unfortunately for the breakers restricted development players can only play home games, they arent allowed to travel

Reply #450900 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

Each week I wait for NZ to snap out of their form slump and it doesn't really happen so I will stick with Sydney at home by 5. Ogilvy and Young to have big games.

Reply #450901 | Report this post


Ganymede 86  
Years ago

Don't think noncontracted development players can travel as it may impact on their college eligibility.

Reply #450903 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not sure Te Rangi Vs Ellis is a "matchup". Ellis is more a stretch 4. He's certainly not quick or athletic enough to play the 3. Just as Te Rangi isn't really big/strong enough to play the 4.

Reply #450904 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Te Rangi has been playing the stretch 4 for a while now, but yeah, he and Ellis are very different players.

Reply #450906 | Report this post


Ganymede 86  
Years ago

If Sydney had a point guard to organise them (Sanders) even an average one they could compete with perth and Adelaide. Their team is defensively very good with Young and Ogilvy

Reply #450907 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kings in DESPERATE need of a PG!!

Reply #450909 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Nice value on Sam Young to be the game's top scorer @$2.50

Reply #450910 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A wheelchair bball team could have beaten the Kings today! Do they know your meant to pass the ball to their team mates not the other team!!

Reply #450911 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lol any organisation paying players such as Ben Allen, Kevin White and jarrod weeks must take a long hard look at themselves. Am not surprised they threw away this game

Reply #450912 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

Two questions.
Heard that Ellis is not in best shape, why not?
is that why he didn't play?
And what's the point of Harvey not shooting more?

Reply #450913 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

Now I was told, can't play him till they sack someone....and he isn't as fit as he should be.
Well, plenty of choice......

Reply #450914 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Not often a team that gets doubled on the boards can score 99 points, but full credit to the Breakers, they were an offensive force today. Wilkinson was unstoppable but plenty of others stepped up at some stage and did their bit.

Reply #450915 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

Kings should just get rid of Young and Carmouche.

Young is obviously really good but is he really worth it considering a) the money he is on and b) he doesn't have that "make the team better" factor

Regarding that last point: he scores the ball but doesn't seem interested in either his teammates or the team. Selfish imports that dont care too much about winning are a thing of the past. (Recent NBL championship teams seem to indicate its the selfess imports that win you titles -- Lisch, Ced, etc).

Reply #450918 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

Young hasn't done anything to make Sydney better, however it's the club that has made the blunder in letting Sanders go instead of Carmouche.

Reply #450920 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

Sydney for the spoon hahaha

Reply #450921 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Replace Carmouche with someone who can get the ball up the court, run the show and hit the three and this team is rolling. As it is they are a team built for some other competition than the NBL.

Reply #450922 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

This is getting beyond a joke.
1 and 4 since Young arrived.
No Pledger and we still couldn't capitalise inside.
Clearly need a point guard.
Nice article on Gleeson, was looking forward to seeing him play then Weeks plays??
What is the go there??
Cody Ellis??
The Kings are so boring to watch, everything looks like hard work while the Breakers were just free flowing.
Getting sick and tired of all the talk, how about some results!

Reply #450925 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Today's game was a classic example of;

1) Heal being out coached
2) Lack of PG(obvious)
3) Kings Defense is ATROCIOUS!
4) Sam a selfish player
5) Carmouche is struggling at PG
6) Cody Ellis not fit to play is a JOKE
7) Kings can only play run & gun basketball like U/14's
8) Kings players are terrible decision makers
9) Kings doesn't pass the ball enough to Ogilvy
10) How to win the Wooden Spoon award

*Did I miss anything else?

Reply #450927 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

JW21

There is only 1 person to blame and its not the players..it's not the owners..it's not the fans who witness a game today of Class(Breakers) v Players who players like they are U/14 (Kings))

If the owners are committed to the Kings for the 2014/2015 season they MUST start looking around for a new coach ASAP as well as start resigning players starting with Ogivly & Madgen!


Reply #450928 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

That was a disgrace by the Sydney Kings, and I mean an actual league-harming, self-harming disgrace.

Reply #450932 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sanders must be laughing his ass off at how badly the Kings have faired since he was sacked.

Reply #450934 | Report this post


Marcus Camby  
Years ago

Wow that was uninspiring from the Kings.

They weren't able to capitalise on Pledger being out.

What is the deal with Ellis? Is he allowed to play or not?

Reply #450945 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Marcus Camby

Ellis doesn't realise he is a professional yet and therefore arrived in sydney out of shape. I'm sure Mike Ellis(dad) would not be impressed... Lets hope he at least suit up at their next game.

Another example of the Kings organisation being a JOKE!

Reply #450947 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Ogilvy Tweeted - Tough day at the office. We are getting better. On the right track.

IMO- Disgraceful day at the office. Kings are a long way from getting better and 21 turnovers isn't On the Right Track!



Reply #450949 | Report this post


Steven  
Years ago

Amazing that they're still 4th on the ladder! They played like wooden spooners.

Reply #450950 | Report this post


Wildcat Fan  
Years ago

Who'd wanna be a Kings fan? They are so frustrating to follow. Im amazed they can still pull 5,500 a game on a fairly regular basis.

Looks like another season where 2 teams are actually good and the rest of the league are just scrubs hovering no better than .500

Reply #450951 | Report this post


orbit  
Years ago

This Kings side would match his PG skills in his prime beautifully! Maybe the Hammer needs to make comeback no. 2!
Can't believe he hasn't addressed the problem & lucky he didn't get his wish & embarrass a lot of people with a performance like that on Xmas day.
Stop making it all about Young & get someone who can run an offense & score a bit.
This move may yet end his career if he can't fix it...

Reply #450953 | Report this post


Ganymede 86  
Years ago

Whoever made the decision to get rid of Sanders is a muppet!
Young forcing things, no structure, turnovers and Ogilvy not getting the ball is the result.
Wilkinson murdered Ogilvy today.

Reply #450954 | Report this post


MANAGER  
Years ago

Kings are shit

Reply #450955 | Report this post


Marcus Camby  
Years ago

Wildcat Fan...

When Young was strongly roumoured but not yet the departure of Sanders, I thought the Kings were going to be hard to stop.

AJ and Young is an imposing front line, even if Sanders was reluctant to score, there was still Madgen, Harvey and an improving Brad Hill. There was also Ellis to join the team.

I hope Sydney can turn it around because they have at least 2 under-utilised star players that can make this team good.

Reply #450956 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Yeah, Sydney are kind of proving a point about how it takes more than simply top players to make a top team...

Reply #450957 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

Shane is calling absolutely everything from the side. Is this how they thought they could get away with no PG on court? I don't recall seeing a coach who needs so much control. He's obviously punched the panic button and has no confidence in any of his guys on court to run a bit of the game. Signs of a novice coach. Pity he hadn't done more time under Brett Brown. These results will really harm his coaching career opportunities.

Reply #450959 | Report this post


LanceUppercut  
Years ago

I had to switch this game off at 3/4 time it was soo ugly.

Reply #450961 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Kidding me? The first quarter was ugly but after that it was up and down with plenty of good plays and tough shots. There were some mind-boggling turnovers from the Kings in that mix though!

The few positives for the Kings were they actually handed out 20 assists and Ogilvy started to figure out how to seal inside and be effective without having plays run for him. He wasnt ready for a player like Wilkinson, though few centres are.

Reply #450963 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

How are you going to have a professional basketball team without a point guard!!! The more I think about it the more mind boggling it is. It would be so interesting to hear Heals logic behind this!?

Reply #450965 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

I laughed when Ogilvy went for the dunk and wedged the ball under the rim, laughed even harder when he got the ball back but passed it straight to Wilkinson who then ran the floor for the dunk and Ogilvy chased him down the court to foul him for the And 1. Heal then benching him was the icing on the cake.

Reply #450967 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I can see what they *were* thinking. Felt wrong to cut Carmouche who'd had some good games over Sanders who wasn't really making a big mark. And that they had bit-PGs who might be able to cover for what Sanders gave them. And if Sanders contributed undersized dogged D and guard, they could get that from Weeks or whoever that guy is.

Of course, with Harvey back to some degree, Carmouche is less of a must-have, and a D-playing distributor would be pretty handy to get it to weapons like Ogilvy, Madgen, Young and Harvey.

Reply #450970 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Paul

In the 3rd & 4th qtr. did you see any discipline, leadership, composure or smart decision made from the Kings?

Clearly it was displayed by NZ lead by CJ showing why they have won 3 championships.

Reply #450971 | Report this post


Jez  
Years ago

As bad as Sydney was for large stretches of that game, you can't completely write off a team with their offensive weapons. They obviously need some more offensive organisation, and a true PG would definitely help. Is that Gleeson guy up to providing that if/when he returns?

The big mistake they made though was signing Carmouche in the first place when they already had Madgen and Harvey. With 10 player rosters and limited salary/points cap, NBL teams can't really afford to have any more than the bare essentials at every position. It's not really a diss on Carmouche, he may have been more productive on a team that genuinely needed a 2 guard.

Reply #450981 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

2 horrible games so far this round, the only thing making the Friday night game watchable was Goulding's class. Otherwise the two games looked like the players were still on holidays. Hopefully the NYE games will be of a higher standard.

Reply #450991 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Tom Daly PG !!!

Reply #451001 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

It's going to be a long second half of the season by the looks of things.
Not a whole lot of positives to come out of yesterday's game.
Obviously no point guard is the elephant in the room! It's easy to point the finger at Carmouche but it isn't his fault that he's in this position.
Weeks must not know if he's coming or going! At least put his name on the back of his singlet!
Signing Gleeson and Armour for what exactly?
So who's in and who's out now?
So Allen takes a seat for Cody Ellis I assume?
So why exactly was Allen signed!? He has barely hit the court so far this season, why not give that spot to a young local Sydney kid. Why bring a bloke from interstate to sit on the bench!
Love how Heal outs his top players in the media, 21 turnovers and he points out that 15 of those are from Ogilvy, Young and Madgen. Way to stick by your players mate.

Reply #451022 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

JW21

There wont be a second half of the season for 1 or 2 people(including a coach) if the kings lose Friday to Cairns.

Heal continually blaming to players instead of himself will only widen the already fragile relationship with some player. They are in such disarray at the moment it's bordering on irreparable.

Despite Young guarding Lebron James 12 months ago, the Kings chemistry has been none existent since he arrived which has expose his lack of experience which they desperately need along with a true floor leader.

Heal should accept blame because he;
*Selected the Sanders & Carmouche
*Sacked Sanders
*Calls every offense
*Selected Cody Ellis who arrived Not Fit(WTF)

The owners should start looking for a new coach for next season if they want the regain the teams respect not only in the NBL but in Sydney as well.



Reply #451030 | Report this post


commonsense  
Years ago

Forget the sack Marty thread its time for a sack Shane thread fellow hoopsters

Reply #451033 | Report this post


Woody Venkat  
Years ago

It has got to this point for me as a Kings Fan. go out and sign Luke Kendall. He tried out for us and got cut. He is a veteran and can bring some floor leadership for us. I have never liked him but we have reached desperation point. And yes as a Kings fan it is very difficult to watch. The sad thing is the Kings as an organisation would rather have a crowd of 6000 people and loose with Sam Young than win with Jesse Sanders and only havr 4000. Sam Young just worries about his own. I spoke with AJ after the game and he pretty muchs aid the same thing to me.

Reply #451038 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Woody Venkat

I agree with your comment about the organisation preferring a big crowd over losing.. The Kings ownership group doesn't have a FREAKING clue about running a nbl team despite one being on the new nbl board and another a former owner of the Razorbacks.

I too have spoken to some Kings players recently and they all express numerous issues on and off the court that is affecting team chemistry.

I highly disagree bringing back Luke Kendall. My choice would be Luke Martin.

Reply #451040 | Report this post


Woody Venkat  
Years ago

Yeah fair enough I will take Lukey Martin at least he has played competetively last year however you and I both know he is not a good enough play maker to fix these glaring issues. Kings organisation have no clue you are right on the money brother. Moose Robbiliard was probably the worst coach I have ever seen head up a pro franchise. We actually need an American coach who comes from a system that breeds development. A guy in the Joey Wright Brett Brown mould. The Australian coach thing has not worked for us we need fresh ideas from elsewhere. The one thing I would liek to see most is some continuity with our imports. Guys like Dwayne McClain and Leon Trimmingham became synonomous with the Sydney public because they stayed here for multiple years and became adopted sons of our city. When was the last time we kept an import from one season to the next? I honestly can't remember thats how long and I have been going to Kings games for 20+ years. It is a sad state of affairs and unless we change something quickly we will be looking at the wooden spoon this year.

Reply #451044 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

Lukey Martin, Graeme Dann and big Martin Iti were all at the game on Sunday. Great to see them there supporting the club.
Luke and Graeme could bring some experience and ball handling to the team and here's a thought..they are both from SYDNEY!
If you're going to bring guys in ahead of established veteran local guys make sure they are better than Allen and who knows how good Gleeson is! This is his first go around at 26, that is not an encouraging sign neither is his history with Heal.
Did Heal just want to get his mates on the team and have a good time or is he serious about winning!?
Bonehead personnel decisions and recruiting of his mates make me feel like I am getting taken for a ride as a fan.
His bs in the media, always passing the buck and not taking responsibility for the teams performance - a lot of questions need answering!

Reply #451049 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

Why can't Gleeson get a run? He's a career point guard and it's the one position who can't drag any other player into. How many tried PG last game? Harvey needs to shoot more, he's got SG mentality,
has he lost it? He's wasted as a Forward, and AJ to have plays solely for him. Madden is only getting some good stats cause he just breaks out under the "s...! someone had better do something" umbrella. That's not a threat when only one guy does it.
As for chemistry within, I think the players themselves are ok but they are frustrated with their coach and no longer understand him.
I hate to agree but it's looking more and more like Shane may not have the goods.
Young is a puzzlement! Does he fit in or not?
Someone must know if Shane has control of this team or the board is still making the decisions.

Reply #451050 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Is Aaron Bruce still around? He would be another useful option, a smart player with no ego who can play D as well.
I don't think Sydney are that far off the mark, a simple trade of Sanders for Carmouche would see them in the top 4, though they don't have the depth to cover if there were any significant injuries.

Reply #451054 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

Aaron Bruce is another one.
So do you take Aaron Bruce, Luke Martin and Graeme Dann OR
Weeks, Gleeson and Allen??? Throw in Kevin White.
Not even close.
I would say that they are a long way off the mark on court at the moment and they will be until they get a point guard that can get the ball over half court.
They've lost 3 in a row to bottom of the ladder teams, 2 at home and they are 43 points off the top team!

Reply #451060 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wilson Sting

Speaking of Ego.. Heal's ego is the reason why Dann, Martin, Aaron, Crosswhite isn't on the team.

They are all players who wasn't afraid to stand up to heal on behalf of the team when needed with the goal of winning games. They will be sitting back shaking their heads ATM like the rest of us.

Heal ego is the reason why he sacked sanders despite everyone around him knowing that was the wrong decision.

His EGO will end his coaching at the Kings!

Reply #451061 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

Whether it's his ego or his general lack of basketball knowledge he better sort it out because a lot of stupid decisions have been made on his watch.
Did Crosswhite retire because of injuries or did he not get along with Heal?
Why not pick up Lukey Martin?
He looked fit at the game. He was called up late by the Hawks a few years ago and he helped them get to the finals against Perth. He doesn't set the world on fire but he can't be any worse than the current point guard situation. He's a local and at least he is fun to watch. Him and Sam Young could combine for some alley oops which we haven't seen yet!
Clearly the Carmouche experiment has failed. Don't keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

Reply #451110 | Report this post


Woody Venkat  
Years ago

Sam Young is all about Sam young. You need imports to have a team first mentality or things will nbever work. You look at a guy like Lanard Copeland coming in to join the Tigers in the eraly 90's and making them a championship unit right away teaming up with Gaze or an Adonis Jordan just made their team mates better.
It is all about attitude not just skill set.

Reply #451184 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I thought Adonis was a bit of a ball hog, and he wasnt in the class of Young. Interestingly, reports from their training have him as a guy who contributes lots of ideas to try and get things working.

On court he is still getting used to this style of play, but I think he's copping too harsh a wrap about being selfish.

Reply #451196 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

From what I saw on last weekend's game, Young wasn't really to blame, everyone else from Sydney just seemed to be in awe of him waiting for him to do something. Check out Gliddon's block on Ennis on NYE and that is how the locals should treat the imports, just like any other player.

Reply #451208 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Sam Young gets the Carlos Powell award for "being great yet making your team stink".

Luke Martin, Luke Kendall, Aaron Bruce or even Lindsay Tait would all make this Kings team better just by getting the ball over halfway in a timely manner and then giving AJ the ball on the block.

Aaron Bruce would be my pick. Tell Home & Away to suck it up and start winning some games.

Reply #451225 | Report this post


Woody Venkat  
Years ago

Too bad Aaron Bruce hates Heal and Vice Cersa it will never happen. I do not think we are being to harsh on Sam Young at all. He just seems lazy and disintrested on the court makes simple errors like dribbling through traffic and turning it over all the time. Failing to catch simple passes. He just seems in his own world. Trust me I have watched every Kings game this season twice and analysed most of them. Especially since Sam Young joined the team. Sure the lack of a PG is an issue but I seriously think he needs to show better body language and atttitude when on the court regardless of what he may bring to training.

Reply #451228 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

That's a real shame for Sydney as Aaron Bruce is by far the most talented player on that list.

Reply #451229 | Report this post


JW21  
Years ago

Heal may not be able to get through to Young.
This time last year he was receiving instructions from Frank Vogel. What exactly is Heal going to be able to tell him that he hasn't already heard!?
It would be a different story talking to somebody of Young's pedigree compared to guys like Sanders, Carmouche, Lazare and Henry.
Tough gig perhaps but he went and got this 'NBA celebrity puller' so it's his job to make it work!
Cody Ellis to take the court tonight.
No Tragardh.
Aaron Bruce or Luke Martin, either or just not A POINT GUARD NOT NAMED CARMOUCHE!!!

Reply #451236 | Report this post




 

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