Anonymous
Years ago

Bogut Academy and L Sunderland

Interesting article about Bogey and Sunderland. Is sunderland really getting this powerful in the eyes of the college coaches?

http://ausahoops.com/coach-luke-sunderland-andrew-boguts-right-hand-man/

Topic #33565 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

It is merely a puff piece.

Reply #454080 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Even so, it is positive and good promotion of Aussie basketball, so good for them and good for him. It doesn't seem to pretend to be something it isn't...

Reply #454082 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Proof is in the pudding.

How many players have they placed in legit schools?

They are a six month finishing school. The best are at the AIS or have already decided what school they want to go to and have signed.

There's a few left over, but the good ones are sought after and have chosen. Whether they go to Bogut's academy is inconsequential.

For all the crap people hang on Clubs, State TEams and NITP, it's still how Australian kids get better and move to the next level.

Reply #454089 | Report this post


funnythin  
Years ago

I know kids who work out with Luke, they really enjoy the variety and diversity of the skills work they do.

Anonymous #454089 not sure what your on but I'd love some. You really believe what you have written?

You said "How many players have they placed in legit schools?" I'm not sure the total number but, at least, they are giving kids a path and opportunity - isn't that a good thing? I understand everyone in their 6 month program got into a college that suited their ability, grades and future goals.

You said "The best are at the AIS or have already decided what school they want to go to and have signed" There are only 10-12 at the AIS and maybe another 10-20 may have decided true however there are a greater number of kids going to college than that.

You said "There's a few left over, but the good ones are sought after and have chosen. Whether they go to Bogut's academy is inconsequential." You really believe this, you sound like one of those people who believe they'll find you. Just doesn't happen for everyone like that, a large number of kids need help, need their skills improve and need guidance. That's were this Academy and the other help out.

You said "For all the crap people hang on Clubs, State TEams and NITP, it's still how Australian kids get better and move to the next level." Again you believe this! If that's true why are they changing the system and why are so many kids from outside of this "miracle" path going whilst kids in it are not?

There are a lot of kids who don't have people pushing them or helping them get places who need Academys like Bogut and ACB to help them achieve a goal of playing college.

This is a positive story as they are trying to help kids, from inside or outside the system, to get somewhere.

Why can't we praise people for trying to help!

Maybe go have a look and get some first hand knowledge before bagging things without any knowledge.

Reply #454100 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Andrew Boguts Academy gives the players an understanding of the USA system as well as improving skills for domestic comp all i can see is good coming out of this. Luke breathes basketball and is always striving to be better. and it is also great that Andrew opens up his gym to allow players in. There is no facility in Australia that comes close to what players can experience there.

Reply #454134 | Report this post


LanceUppercut  
Years ago

Seems like a really good Academy.

Do they practice shooting at the Bogut Academy? Bogut's shooting and offense really has been abysmal in recent years. I know he attributes a lot of that to his elbow injury and that is understandable he's had a really unfortunate run of terrible (potentially career ending injries) and to his credit has worked hard to get to where he is....but

If the injury hampers his right hand/arm for shooting for any shot including free throws (other than hook shots) why not re-learn to shoot with your left arm/hand?? it may sound difficult but it is not without precedent and ATM he turns down far too many 14-17ft WIDE open jump shots that other bigs take with relative ease and consistency or Bogut attempts a running floater instead of taking the easy shot. (admittedly they haven't had Bogut's injuries)

I'm a fan of Bogut's and hope he and his academy have continued success, but would like to see his FT% increase and see him become more versatile offensive player by taking wide open mid range jump shot that a pro baller should be able to, even if that means he relearn to shoot with alternate arm, i feel it would be worth it

Reply #454158 | Report this post


Smeta  
Years ago

Out come the haters once more, everything that is wrong with our BBall community.

Reply #454389 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

funnythin

"This is a positive story as they are trying to help kids, from inside or outside the system, to get somewhere.

Why can't we praise people for trying to help!"

Because no one I think believes this is the motive. The motive appears to be to commercialize an otherwise dormant facility.

Charging $10 per head+ for casual gym sessions doesn't really dispel that cynicism when most local basketball facilities will hit you for $3.00 for an unlimited shoot-around.

And, you may be wrong in that they actually only take kids who are playing rep ball from what I can see - so kids inside the system.

And here is a list of schools their website says they placed kids out of 2013 - its hardly a diamond-studded list.

Pepperdine University
University of Regina
University of New Brunswick
Bishop's University
De Anza Junior College
Pope John High School
Keyano College
Bryant University
New Zealand Breakers
Lakehead University

I make no comment on the quality of the work done by the academy, it may or may not be good - I have no knowledge. But suggesting this is all altruistic is pretty naive and talking down what are still world leading junior development structures in this country doesn't exactly reinforce your support.

And Smeta, if all that is wrong with the basketball community is "haters" then you haven't done much research. Take a closer look.

Reply #454404 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Do any of the AIS (Centre of Excellence) kids train at this facility?

Reply #454408 | Report this post


Smeta  
Years ago

AIS has a certain amount of places available, nobody is talking it down, they are stating that there are other who do not make that cut and may still have the same aspirations.

What about those who don`t make it there. Whether it is for Basketball reasons, lifestyle or a chance to get a education in a different country nobody should be hating on the organisations that help make that happen.

Bogut Academy, ACB and Sedale group all help these kids out, might not be a "DIAMOND" studded list as HO refers to. But I would certainly say its a lot better then these kid would achieve on there own.

Knowing a number of kids who are involved in all three and many who are about to start at all three they are pretty pumped about it.

The trolling that goes on this site makes me laugh, be great if people put there name to these posts. How many are achieving better themselves?

Reply #454409 | Report this post


Pauly B  
Years ago

I know a couple of kids that have gone to the academy and have heard nothing but glowing reports from the kids and their parents. I'm not sure how Bogut's personal stats have anything to do with what they teach or focus on at his academy. They help kids that want to go to college get their. All kids have different ceilings and abilities so just because they don't all go to Div 1 schools in high profile conferences it doesn't mean the program is overrated or inferior.

Reply #454410 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

HO, surely it's no coincidence that at about the same time as this academy started, that we have so many Australians in the NBA. ;)

Reply #454412 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Smeta, sorry, funnythin did talk down our development structure. You might want to read that post. Funnythin seems to think that because the NITP structure is changing that it can't be that good (silly argument).

Seeing as you responded to me, I am not down on the Academy. I made it very clear in my post I have no knowledge of its quality.

However, a couple of minutes of research exposes the altruistic motives that people here are assigning to it. It's not about "helping" people, its about getting an outcome to build a commercial enterprise. It appears to be a very expensive place to be to be honest, whatever its facilities might supply. Individuals at $100 per hour, monthly access at over $400?

Saying this place is about "helping" people is like saying that NAB exists to "help" people because it gives someone a home loan.

With respect, dozens of kids who do not make the AIS in this country get to better colleges than those on the list I provided. If you look at the profile of the Head Coach, to be honest, its reasonably slim. It would not stack up against the guys from the ACB on paper for example, or a bunch of SEABL coaches or many coaching directors around Victoria. That is not to say he is not an excellent coach - he may well be and I have no reason to doubt his capacity working with young basketballers.

Again, to be very clear, so it is simple for you, I am not "hating" on the academy or its coach, I am disputing its outcomes, relevant to what remains an outstanding pathway for junior athletes in this country.

Reply #454417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Glanced over the above posts i do not see where anybody says it is a freebie but just they can get opportunities that most kids are not able to get. also with the knowledge that Luke has of the USA system he can help steer you in the right direction as for a one coach operation that is a few that is in the usa

Reply #454419 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There are personal stories I am aware, of kids that have been helped out by the Bogut Academy in circumstances where they have not been burdoned by big dollar amounts and they have ended up at very highly regarded locations (basketball scholarships), but names need not be mentioned here.

It is the things people don't readily know or read about that makes it a very worth while enterprise, maybe not in huge numbers by some standards, but they are there and offer something to those who want or need it.

Yes, not cheap on the face of asking prices, but everything has its place and not everyone gets the same treatment at their local Associaitons, so what is good to see is that there is another option out there.

Reply #454422 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

Look,
fact is no ne knows better than Bogut the value of one on one training and private coaching ...even tho he is an AIS graduate, he always talks of the extra work he was fortunate to do/have.

Reply #454429 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

whoops, missed the end of my post............

Didn't he keep that private coach as a big part of his preparation, for some time after leaving Australia? He's trying to make that available for others who don't have the option.
I also endorse, wish it had been around years back.

Reply #454430 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry but why can't we criticise. Anytime someone does they are labelled haters. Fact is Bogut like a lot of other players/ex-players get a lot out of the game yet still want to rip further money out of it, for example the high cost of using his gym. Everyone who has had it good wants to continue to bleed others in the bball community.

Reply #454435 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

anon 435 how come Bogut is the only one singled out is he the only one charging for what they do within basketball. Good luck to him as i do not find it expensive compared to a lot of things eg some people can find you a college in the USA it will cost you thousands of dollars. oh by the way i was happily paying 50 dollars an hour 8 years ago with nothing like what i have seen in Andrews set-up, we had to clean up the court before you could use it dust all over no gym.

Reply #454447 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

#454447

Bogut is not the only one singled out. ACB has been derided here regularly for its supposed high cost / hecs debt and the diploma qualification or whatever it is graduates receive.

My problem is that individuals regularly attribute all this stuff as "giving back" or "helping out".

Its not, plain and simple. Its commercial, it looks to be very highly priced, whatever your little example might be. it is certainly highly priced from what we can see compared to the excellent pathway being provided already - which would make one question value for money.

I am ok with there being a place for this in the market, and I am ok with kids/parents choosing to pay good prices for it. But, lets not sell this, as the article suggests, as the first destination or the destination of choice for college coaches looking to Australia. And lets not sell it as someone putting back into basketball. That is an insult to the volunteer coach who has put hours into the individual work Delly or Mills or Cambage or whoever needed to get where they got.

Reply #454452 | Report this post


Pauly B  
Years ago

Anon 435. Are you serious? It's a business not a charity. Bogut does plenty of media work here during the off season to help promote the game and also some during the season. Just because he's had success it doesn't mean he should provide free hand outs or that he "owes" the basketball community anything. The academy offers a service which everybody can decide for themselves if they want to put their hand into their pocket and pay for. If people think his gym is too expensive they don't have to go there but name one other venue that offers everything under the one roof that his gym does? I can't.

Reply #454453 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i have read the article again HO iand i cannot see where it says "giving back" or "helping out". so i suppose you do not have a problem then :).

Reply #454455 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who's the better bloke, Bogus or Eyrie?

They both gave so much back to Australian basketball during the NBA off season, I can't split them.

Reply #454457 | Report this post


Funnythin  
Years ago

Ho - sorry it took so long to get back to you. I never said they helped out for free. They offer a service and the use of their facility. On top of that, they provide a lot of advice on what you need to do and shouldn't do to be considered for different levels of college.

The NITP and other systems are focused on a small group of kids. There are a lot more out there.

You need to remember for the hourly fee you get to use the recovery pools and, usually, get two sessions.

Hell, you can go to you local association, get someone assigned to you, pay $40-50 an hour and be no better off. The quality is hit or miss - more than likely miss!

Yes, one of my kids goes each week and it great for them. They enjoy the different focus and approach that is taken.

They offer a service that, personally, I think rates a lot higher than others offered in that area. There are kids coming from all over Australia to take part in their post-grad program - that must be saying that they are doing something right?

HO - how can you and the others put it down when you have no knowledge of what happens or what its like?

Reply #454459 | Report this post


Tim P  
Years ago

Hi,

As a coach that has players that have attended or are attending sessions with Luke at the academy I have seen nothing but improvement.

I will stipulate this with saying that the players can become a little bit score Central, however there individual skills are improved greatly. While coaching a team it can be hard to focus enough time on individual skills or as much as I would like which would be daily for an hour. The academy opens this up for all athletes. Along with this he does offer pathways for players to go over seas. While not yet as diverse and as high as I'm sure even he would like over time this can only improve with the standard of players that are coming out of there.

Clubs that do a lot of ground work to get the athletes to a level where they can then be pushed even further should be happy for there athletes to know that they can find great avenues from the base level that has originally been developed.

It is a business and as such it does need to make money, while it can be looked at as being expensive there is really nothing anywhere near by that can offer the same product.

Luke has done a great job building this program and I have no doubt he will continue to develop an even stronger program over the years to come.

Good luck

Reply #454460 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

Funnythin.

Just where have I put it down? I have stated (probably multiple times) that I have no knowledge of the quality of the training etc. and that I have no reason to doubt the work of the coach. I have also stated that there is a place for this type of environment. However, at this stage it is not delivering the outcomes I see from the more traditional development streams in this country in terms of sending kids to well recognised schools.

As such, that calls into question the credibility of the article, and it poses the question of value for money. If I was a parent of a child, who was in NITP or similar (probably the best 100 kids in Vic) then I would be seeking out a more established or credentialed path than this one as those paths have to date proved better in my view. If my kid was not in the elite development system, then I might invest in this if I thought it would provide a good path for my child. But here is the problem, if the best kids are following the NITP pathway, and not going here, then the academy is going to have to find a lot of "diamond in the rough" types to really build cred with the stronger US schools.

I also did not say you said it was free, my response about cost was reflective of your "they are doing this to help kids out" view - they are not, they are being commercial.

#454455

I did not say that it did. I responded to Funnythin who said this.

Reply #454483 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think generally, the best kids have always gravitated towards the BA development pathway because they want to play for Australia and compete against the best of their peers.

These sorts of academies (Bogut/Sedale Threatt/ACB/Phil Smyth/Andrew Gaze VUT) will always be viable commercially and attract attention but won't really attract the best talent.

All of these academies have different objectives and some are tied in with TAFE Diplomas, etc. Some offer the prospect of NCAA, but you don't really need to pay anyone to do that for you.

The Bogut Academy seems like a finishing school - the last 6 months before you go to College, you can train at the Academy.

Similar to what HO has been saying...if you are talented enough to be in the pathway, you get taken care of because you are sought after. Outside of that you might get lucky at one of these academies, you might not.

Remember, the pointy end is very pointy indeed - there's only 12 players on a roster. The pathway only needs to look after the best.

Reply #454485 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

I'll throw my 5 cents in:
I have no problem with the Bogut Academy as it fills a niche in the market and if parents are happy to pay so be it.The top kids here are on colleges radars long before they finish high school but for kids that are on the fringe and haven't had the exposure the Bogut Academy can probably work to get them into a smaller college or JUCO.My nephew is a junior at one of the top NCAA colleges (athletics not basketball)and he started receiving info from colleges in Year 11.He loves it over there and the school looks after him really well.Everything they promised they've delivered on.My only concern with some of the smaller schools is that they promise the world but fail to deliver and thats why we see some guys coming home early. By doing your due diligence and visiting the school it eliminates the risk.

Reply #454487 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its not a "finishing school" as nearly all these kids are NOT on any college radar. The kids he has placed are for the most part in non scholarship schools, JUCO's or low rated NAIA schools and therefore need to find jobs either on or off campus. The need to pay for their tuition or a large part of it. I know of a number of kids who went down this exact path without using one of these private centers/coaches and they are ALL home now without locally recognized degree's and feeling a little let down. Truth be told, if any decent coach had the same facility as Luke does they would pull in kids with dreams and do a comparable job. I am not say Luke is good or bad, I just think its pumped up to more than it really is.
The really is not one "grad student " there who will make a half decent D1 college, that's not hating on them just the reality of the standard of players OUTSIDE the NCOE. The dream of playing college ball is not what some people would have you think it is. When you look at the number of scholarships available and then the number of HS grads in the US you really do start to see just how hard it is to get noticed.

Reply #454519 | Report this post


Smeta  
Years ago

Not sure where on there web it says "you will make D1" Just says they offer a service...And yes as others have stated it is a business and like any other business you pay for what you recieve.

Perhaps other coaches if they had great facilaties could do a great job as well.... BIG deal they don`t have the facilaties and Luke does so good luck to hm and the kids that go there.

Did they not have a few kids go D1 last year anyway from memory and this year there ia kid already at signed by Saint Mary`s i believ as well from the FB posts I have seen.

Going back a few years I know, but didn`t players like Worthington play D2.

Yeah things may have changed now as far as where the big leagues look for talent.

But if the kids at these different private venues are happy with being at JUCO, Div 2 or even getting better for VJBL... whatever it is. If that is the dream they were after then great.

If nothing else the life experience will be great for them.



Reply #454526 | Report this post


Pug 33  
Years ago

They might pick up some scraps or late developers but you would think it is mostly a chance for rich parents to mortgage the house to give their kid a last chance. The best players will mostly be taken care of already. It is a bit like life support for the seriously ill. Expensive to keep them alive just in case but their fate is probably decided.

Valid enterprise and fine for parents to pay for it if they want.

Reply #454529 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a basketball community, we are constantly lamenting the fact that once they finish high school, or even before, most kids will turn to footy instead of basketball because they can earn more playing for their local footy club every week. Places like this attract kids who are still passionate about playing basketball and want to IMPROVE to further their basketball aspirations. Why would we ever declare that as a bad thing? What other options aside from those mentioned here are there for constant training and improvement after VJBL? The more that kids in this age group focus on basketball as a pathway to college or NBL, the better it is for our sport.

Reply #454539 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Football stealing Basketball athletes is a complete non-issue that gets spouted by the AFL media circus. IT'S A NON ISSUE.

One - Scott Pendlebury - may have been good enough to play for the Boomers. MAY. There's 12 Boomers. It's the pinnacle of Australian basketball. There's 18 AFL clubs. Do the maths.

The reason there's fall away is because there's less jobs. Even if the NBL had 14 teams, there's still less jobs!! These Academies have little or no bearing on the pathway. They take care of fringe athletes. Kids that might play SEABL/State League.

The BA pathway MUST be geared towards pushing the elite end, they can take a few risks, but only a few. The resources from BA need to go to the best. It can't spread the money far and wide - there isn't enough. The best get the most, the rest get what they can, where they can. That's why its pointy end. That's why its elite.

When people speak of opportunities for kids - it's BS. It's not a charity!!! There's p[lenty of opportunities. For those that are good enough. Again, the BA pathway is 12 BOOMERS and maybe another half dozen in contention. That's what its geared for. 12 players at the highest level.

Reply #454545 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"My problem is that individuals regularly attribute all this stuff as "giving back" or "helping out Its not, plain and simple. Its commercial"

So true, well said. Bogut and other pros go through the AIS at taxpayers expense and don't have to pay back a cent, yet when they 'give back' it's to create yet another revenue stream for themselves.

Reply #454561 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So kids that go through itc and nitp and play state are guaranteed a spot at college.what trollop.Hard working kids that don't give up and work hard at their game will succeed. Leve Boguts alone they do a fabulous job.How many fo you have even stepped in the door??????

Reply #476967 | Report this post




 

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